What current doctors are saying!!!

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mddoc20

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I have spoken with a few doctors lately about going to medical school. They have been both DO and MD. Some are Hospitalist, GI, ER, and Family Doctors. All of them have said that medical school is not financially lucrative anymore and they wish that they would have gone to be a nurse practitioner or some midlevel so that they could be with thier family more and make almost the same amount of money. I have been contemplating the same about NP or DO. Family is very important to me and I have other aspirations such as cooking and real estate. However, I need to be in a profession that would allow me to pay off a substantial amount of student loans (roughly $120,000-$160,000) and still be able to live in nice house and have good vacations for the family and be comfortable. I also don't want to deal with the "midlevels are doctor wannabes" either. I know that I would take care of my patients and that is what matters to me. Has anyone else experienced this feedback from physicians and what are your plans?
 
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Sadly yes. By 3 different ones.

I'm not as concerned with a super life style as I am with paying off the ~280k debt + interest.

Your comments lead me to believe you'd be just fine as an NP or PA.
 
I have spoken with a few doctors lately about going to medical school. They have been both DO and MD. Some are Hospitalist, GI, ER, and Family Doctors. All of them have said that medical school is not financially lucrative anymore and they wish that they would have gone to be a nurse practitioner or some midlevel so that they could be with thier family more and make almost the same amount of money. I have been contemplating the same about NP or DO. Family is very important to me and I have other aspirations such as cooking and real estate. However, I need to be in a profession that would allow me to pay off a substantial amount of student loans (roughly $120,000-$160,000) and still be able to live in nice house and have good vacations for the family and be comfortable. I also don't want to deal with the "midlevels are doctor wannabes" either. I know that I would take care of my patients and that is what matters to me. Has anyone else experienced this feedback from physicians and what are your plans?

"Financially lucrative" is a relative term. Even the average income of most GPs ($120k or so) is still well above the overall average of all current wage earners in the US.

I could live pretty happily on $120-150k a year - and that would include paying my loans back. Could you?

What if you were making the $300k that cardiologists average? Even including malpractice insurance, that sounds pretty "lucrative" to me.
 
Some of us go into medicine for reasons other than money. To me, it is important to feel good about what I do and I believe becoming a doctor will help me get there. A good income is an added plus but, I would do it even if it were not financially lucrative.
 
I get the "dont go into medicine" from the physicians i speak to. While the med students i talk to say its fun.
 
Some of us go into medicine for reasons other than money. To me, it is important to feel good about what I do and I believe becoming a doctor will help me get there. A good income is an added plus but, I would do it even if it were not financially lucrative.

I agree. I think it is a poor decision to pursue medicine for the money. There are about a zillion other ways to make money faster...and often in greater volumes.

I'm quite happy with a clean apartment and a trustworthy car. If I get to go out a few nights a month, that's icing on the cake. I don't even know what I will do with a real physician's salary.
 
I did not say nor did I mean that I would go to medical school just for the money. What I am trying to say is if someone could be a nurse practitioner and work/own a clinic seeing patients and be happy making $90k-$120k while having a good family life why would you go to school for a longer period of time and residency? Is it the DOCTOR title, prestige, autonomy, knowledge base, personal goal? I am trying to make this decision myself. I am not downing any one path; just trying to get opinions/feedback.
 
I agree. I think it is a poor decision to pursue medicine for the money. There are about a zillion other ways to make money faster...and often in greater volumes.

I'm quite happy with a clean apartment and a trustworthy car. If I get to go out a few nights a month, that's icing on the cake. I don't even know what I will do with a real physician's salary.

perhaps start a family, maybe be able to send your kids to college without them having to take out lots of loans.
 
I did not say nor did I mean that I would go to medical school just for the money. What I am trying to say is if someone could be a nurse practitioner and work/own a clinic seeing patients and be happy making $90k-$120k while having a good family life why would you go to school for a longer period of time and residency? Is it the DOCTOR title, prestige, autonomy, knowledge base, personal goal? I am trying to make this decision myself. I am not downing any one path; just trying to get opinions/feedback.

If time is a priority for you (time you can spend with your family etc.) then nursing would be a better option. For me personally knowledge base is a big part of it and I enjoy learning.
 
I did not say nor did I mean that I would go to medical school just for the money. What I am trying to say is if someone could be a nurse practitioner and work/own a clinic seeing patients and be happy making $90k-$120k while having a good family life why would you go to school for a longer period of time and residency? Is it the DOCTOR title, prestige, autonomy, knowledge base, personal goal? I am trying to make this decision myself. I am not downing any one path; just trying to get opinions/feedback.

I was planning on going the PA route until I really thought to myself would that be enough? I loved the challenge of biochemistry I and II and other classes that I took that I never needed for PA pre-reqs (I wasn't a science major in schools so I had to start over). I want to see complex patients or at least any patient that my specialty allows and not feel or be over my head ( Of course, no PA or NP should see a patient if they feel they are out of their range of practice). I like being a leader and would ultimately feel better if there were more responsibility on myself as opposed to my supervising physician.

I think they income is fine. Yes, we won't make what doctors in the early 90's were making, but coming from a poorer background I feel comfortable in my ability to manage money and finances to live a very comfortable lifestyle more so than most of my family probably ever will.
 
First, it's a misconception that PAs have a better family lifestyle. Most of them are stuck working weekends, nights, holidays....the crappy times that doctors don't want to work. Those few who own their own clinics work their butts off as well for much less than a doctor would pull in.

Second, every generation of doctors has bitched about how it used to be better when they started and how they'd never do it again. Things always change and people just don't like change all that much.

Third, it's not just medicine. Every profession out there is full of people who bitch about how great it used to be. Doctors, laywers, CPAs, teachers.... they all bitch about the dsame thing. Yet, the next generation moves right in and follows in their paths. Ultimately, they'll be doing the same thing in thirty years. That's just life.

Base your decision on something other than people complaining about their jobs. Most mid-levels don't have it all that great.
 
my best friend is a new grad PA working for a cardiovascular surgery group. he is averaging 80 hours/week. last week, he was at 42 hours-worked by wednesday.

he makes good money - 85k a year plus he gets to keep whatever he bills over 85k a year. so basically, once he's paid for himself, he gets whatever else he bills. but, break his pay down to hourly and he isnt making that much for the effort he puts in.
 
Some of us go into medicine for reasons other than money. To me, it is important to feel good about what I do and I believe becoming a doctor will help me get there. A good income is an added plus but, I would do it even if it were not financially lucrative.

Very true. However, I find it interesting that whenever I hear doctors griping about their jobs nowadays the "money issue" seems to be one of the first beefs they bring up. Given the fact that doctors haven't suddenly become paupers in recent years, why do so many of them now feel that they aren't making enough money? Were there a large number of them from the previous generation that went into the profession chasing money and have become disillusioned?

As for your later question, the knowledge base associated with being a doctor appeals to me. I also like the idea of being able to practice on my own and/or be a leader in a medical practice without having to be under the direct supervision of a physician above me. Practice options seem to be much broader for physicians than NP/PAs, and I like that also.
 
....Were there a large number of them from the previous generation that went into the profession chasing money and have become disillusioned?....

No, but imagine what you would do if your slary kept getting cut every year. What would you do? That's what is happening because, although costs continue to escalate, physician reimbursement continues to go down.

Do you know what a surgeon gets for removing a gallbladder? About 200 bucks. That includes reimbursement for the initial office visit, the surgery and follow up visits. If you were making thousands for doing them in 1985, then you'd be a little disillusioned.
 
Did I read right that the OP listed on of his/her aspirations in life as "cooking"?
 
ok let me explain. I like to cook and would like to own a restauraunt some day and cook there every once in a while.
 
ok let me explain. I like to cook and would like to own a restauraunt some day and cook there every once in a while.

Normally, I don't like to discourage peoples plans, and I hate to seem like I am putting your ideas down but...

Do you ever plan on sleeping? Or a family? Or free time? I mean I love to cook, and at one point I contemplated culinary school (CIA) with similar high hopes. Realistically, you would need to have one of the lightest hour physician specialties to even have a shot at this.

Restaurants are one of the most risky business ventures and require insane amounts of time. Unless you had a partner (who planned on doing 90% of the work) I can't see this being feasible.

I was an assistant manager at a popular franchise where the owner/manager had to spend way to much time there and we didn't do much cooking, mostly baking and simple food prep. I can only imagine the effort required to plan a menu, know how to prefectly execute the menu, order food, manage the restaurant including the financial aspect, and have time to be a physician. If you can do it then more power to you.
 
Does anyone know: If a patient with any given complaint sees a 1) MD/DO; 2) a PA; or a 3) NP, does Medicare, Medicaid, and/or the insurance companies pay the same fee to the health care provider regardless of their credentials? Just curious.
 
When you bill you use a code for a specific procedure. These codes are pretty much universal, I believe. The insurance company will reimburse the physician, nurse practitioner, or PA based on the code, not their degree designation.
 
I just wouldn't be happy being a PA/NP/etc. Plain and simple, I have big dreams, and I don't want to feel pigeonholed by the position I somehow chose.

As for working under someone else's medical direction, I am not the biggest fan. I work in EMS now, and all ALS providers have to answer to the county medical director. Truthfully, I would rather BE the medical director.

In terms of the wage issue, it all depends on who you talk to. I guess that geographical location is a factor too. I know several doctors, but they are all specialists. I have never heard a gripe from any of them about their wages, reimbursement, etc. The only one I have heard complain was an EM doc, but that was related to abuse of the ED, drug-seekers, etc. I am also not sure what % of patients they see are Medicare/Medicaid. This is also a factor.

I guess it all comes from perspective. Arguably, medicine would be better if we all did it just for the "love" of it... too bad so many of use are $200k+ in debt!
 
coldfeet,
My thoughts exactly. People seem to be unhappy and greedy no matter what they do. It seems to me that it is all part of growing up to realize there is more to life than wanting a lot of things. How about living in the moment? When I was about 25, I lost interest in watching movies, buying stuff at the mall and increasingly became more active physically and spiritual at the same time. It puzzles me to see people not wanting to grow up well into their forties and fifties.

BTW, your story is quite amazing!
 
I've heard it both ways. The grass is always greener... But some docs have been saying this for quite some time now.

I've worked with a number of docs (MDs and DOs) who say that if they could do it again - they would go the mid-level route. Some others say, no way.

I've also heard many fellow PAs say that if weren't for "this or that" they would go the MD/DO route. Some others say, PA all the way!

I've been a PA for 8+ years. I love it. I make a terrific income and only work 3-4 days a week. For me, the decision to go back to medical school is NOT financially based (financially, it makes NO sense for me to go back). There are a lot of personal reasons that I have discussed with my family and together, we've made this decision.

So back to the OP - I definitely see the advantages for mid-levels, and the drawbacks and the same can be said for the doctor route too - at least as far as I can tell with the docs that I work with.

The grass may not be greener, but in the end, I'm happy and at peace with my decision.
 
When I graduate in 2012, I am going to do a one-year internship, and then a fellowship in hair restoration surgery. At that point, some of my classmates and I will open the "hair institute of atlanta". I may open an office in Texas as well. At that point, I will establish a fellowship program at my lucrative clinic, where I will train young pups like yourselves in the magical art of hair transplanting.

As soon as I have laid the groundwork for this, I will make the application available online.

I'm not sure yet if I'm joking.
 
When I graduate in 2012, I am going to do a one-year internship, and then a fellowship in hair restoration surgery. At that point, some of my classmates and I will open the "hair institute of atlanta". I may open an office in Texas as well. At that point, I will establish a fellowship program at my lucrative clinic, where I will train young pups like yourselves in the magical art of hair transplanting.

As soon as I have laid the groundwork for this, I will make the application available online.

I'm not sure yet if I'm joking.

:laugh: I'm in Atlanta too. We should discuss the possibility of my body waxing foundation as a lucrative addition to the hair institute!
 
That reminds me... It's been a while since I've manscaped.
 
Loans suck and schools expensive, but I ask myself what else I would be happy/interested in doing and there is nothing. I def couldn't answer to anyone else (not like a boss but someone with "greater" knowledge - degree wise) so idk, the only thing that really gets to me about the future is the student loans, itll be like paying a mortgage on a f*cking house - its not right but what other choice do we have?
 
I have spoken with a few doctors lately about going to medical school. They have been both DO and MD. Some are Hospitalist, GI, ER, and Family Doctors. All of them have said that medical school is not financially lucrative anymore and they wish that they would have gone to be a nurse practitioner or some midlevel so that they could be with thier family more and make almost the same amount of money. I have been contemplating the same about NP or DO. Family is very important to me and I have other aspirations such as cooking and real estate. However, I need to be in a profession that would allow me to pay off a substantial amount of student loans (roughly $120,000-$160,000) and still be able to live in nice house and have good vacations for the family and be comfortable. I also don't want to deal with the "midlevels are doctor wannabes" either. I know that I would take care of my patients and that is what matters to me. Has anyone else experienced this feedback from physicians and what are your plans?

If you look at this link:
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings

you see that the median wage for an FP doc with more than a year under his/her belt is around $156K a year; about $8K a month after taxes. I can't imagine anyone being unhappy on that amount of money.
 
Medicaid/Medicare reimbursment is terrible! And just think how little physicians will be reimbursed for their work/medical knowledge once the whole nation is on such "free health-care" programs. My husband (anesthesiologist) fears that he will be nothing more than an underpaid government employee, soon.....Scary thoughts for all of us new to medical school/medicine....
 
When I graduate in 2012, I am going to do a one-year internship, and then a fellowship in hair restoration surgery. At that point, some of my classmates and I will open the "hair institute of atlanta". I may open an office in Texas as well. At that point, I will establish a fellowship program at my lucrative clinic, where I will train young pups like yourselves in the magical art of hair transplanting.

As soon as I have laid the groundwork for this, I will make the application available online.

I'm not sure yet if I'm joking.

Throw a cafeteria in your institute and have the OP do the cooking...a win for everybody!
 
I have spoken with a few doctors lately about going to medical school. They have been both DO and MD. Some are Hospitalist, GI, ER, and Family Doctors. All of them have said that medical school is not financially lucrative anymore and they wish that they would have gone to be a nurse practitioner or some midlevel so that they could be with thier family more and make almost the same amount of money. I have been contemplating the same about NP or DO. Family is very important to me and I have other aspirations such as cooking and real estate. However, I need to be in a profession that would allow me to pay off a substantial amount of student loans (roughly $120,000-$160,000) and still be able to live in nice house and have good vacations for the family and be comfortable. I also don't want to deal with the "midlevels are doctor wannabes" either. I know that I would take care of my patients and that is what matters to me. Has anyone else experienced this feedback from physicians and what are your plans?

Well I've shadowed 4 doctors. The 1st doctor didn't really bring up medical debt, salaries, etc (But he was also a pediatric orthopedist in his 60's). The 2nd doctor (FP) seemed really bitter about med school debt, rising overhead, malpractice, and shrinking reimbursements. He advised me that if I have the slightest interests in anything but medicine, to pursue them because I could probably make just as much money as him doing them.

The 3rd doctor, a pediatrician, told me that that although doctors aren't making what they were.. doctor's still make a very nice salary. You could tell that he absolutely loved what he does, and was disgusted when I told him that other doctors were advising me not to go into medicine because of malpractice/reimbursements/etc.

The 4th doctor, an orthopedist, told me he absolutely loves what he does, but with all the BS he deals with (the threat of lawsuits, dealing with insurance companies, etc), he honestly doesn't know if he would go into medicine if he did it all over.

All of them agreed with the fact that if you truly want to be a doctor and help others, then you should go into medicine.

After these shadowing experiences, I can't see myself in any other field and if I'm going into medicine I don't want the limited knowledge-base/training of a mid-level (PA/NP/etc). I've decided that I want the autonomy and the full training (to handle any case that I may be presented with in my specialty) of an DO/MD degree.
 
I know a bunch of EM docs, and they love their lives.

I don't know any hair transplant docs, because I don't hang around aston martin dealerships or play golf at augusta national on any kind of regular basis.
 
Well I've shadowed 4 doctors. The 1st doctor didn't really bring up medical debt, salaries, etc (But he was also a pediatric orthopedist in his 60's). The 2nd doctor (FP) seemed really bitter about med school debt, rising overhead, malpractice, and shrinking reimbursements. He advised me that if I have the slightest interests in anything but medicine, to pursue them because I could probably make just as much money as him doing them.

The 3rd doctor, a pediatrician, told me that that although doctors aren't making what they were.. doctor's still make a very nice salary. You could tell that he absolutely loved what he does, and was disgusted when I told him that other doctors were advising me not to go into medicine because of malpractice/reimbursements/etc.

The 4th doctor, an orthopedist, told me he absolutely loves what he does, but with all the BS he deals with (the threat of lawsuits, dealing with insurance companies, etc), he honestly doesn't know if he would go into medicine if he did it all over.

All of them agreed with the fact that if you truly want to be a doctor and help others, then you should go into medicine.

After these shadowing experiences, I can't see myself in any other field and if I'm going into medicine I don't want the limited knowledge-base/training of a mid-level (PA/NP/etc). I've decided that I want the autonomy and the full training (to handle any case that I may be presented with in my specialty) of an DO/MD degree.
I wager the second doctor did average in school and then just "average" on his boards and was "forced" into family medicine whereas the pediatrician actually wanted to do a primary care type of work and thus loves the job.
 
I wager the second doctor did average in school and then just "average" on his boards and was "forced" into family medicine whereas the pediatrician actually wanted to do a primary care type of work and thus loves the job.

Yeah, I def agree with that. The 2nd doc actually went to school in the Caribbean and although he's from and practices in NY now, got into one of his last choice residencies somewhere down in Louisiana.
 
When I graduate in 2012, I am going to do a one-year internship, and then a fellowship in hair restoration surgery. At that point, some of my classmates and I will open the "hair institute of atlanta". I may open an office in Texas as well. At that point, I will establish a fellowship program at my lucrative clinic, where I will train young pups like yourselves in the magical art of hair transplanting.

As soon as I have laid the groundwork for this, I will make the application available online.

I'm not sure yet if I'm joking.


Some time back, I read a book (I don't remember the title) written by a female EM doc who wrote about all of her exciting times, saves, yada, yada, yada, in the ER. But in the preface or introduction, she mentioned that after ten years in the ER, she was burned out and just took a position doing hair restoration on a full time basis!!! Yuk!! Maybe she will write a sequel to the book documenting her exploits in hair restoration!
 
I have spoken with a few doctors lately about going to medical school. They have been both DO and MD. Some are Hospitalist, GI, ER, and Family Doctors. All of them have said that medical school is not financially lucrative anymore and they wish that they would have gone to be a nurse practitioner or some midlevel so that they could be with thier family more and make almost the same amount of money. I have been contemplating the same about NP or DO. Family is very important to me and I have other aspirations such as cooking and real estate. However, I need to be in a profession that would allow me to pay off a substantial amount of student loans (roughly $120,000-$160,000) and still be able to live in nice house and have good vacations for the family and be comfortable. I also don't want to deal with the "midlevels are doctor wannabes" either. I know that I would take care of my patients and that is what matters to me. Has anyone else experienced this feedback from physicians and what are your plans?


I talked with many doctors while I was a pre-med student, mainly in larger community hospitals, and they all love their job and all said they would do it again. None of them were primary care docs.
 
When you bill you use a code for a specific procedure. These codes are pretty much universal, I believe. The insurance company will reimburse the physician, nurse practitioner, or PA based on the code, not their degree designation.

Same codes but you're not paid the same. So much is based on Medicare. In the hospital Medicare pays a PA 85% of what a physician gets. If a physician is involved at the same time then the reimbursement goes to the physician for the normal amount. As an outpatient PA services are billed as "incident to" the physician. The NP gets "80% of the lesser of either the actual charge or 85% of the physician fee schedule amount."

Insurance companies typically reimbursee at a percentage of Medicare. For instance, thay may pay 185% of Medicare to a physician. They would pay less than that to the PA or NP.

So, no, they don't get paid the same.
 
When I graduate in 2012, I am going to do a one-year internship, and then a fellowship in hair restoration surgery. At that point, some of my classmates and I will open the "hair institute of atlanta". I may open an office in Texas as well. At that point, I will establish a fellowship program at my lucrative clinic, where I will train young pups like yourselves in the magical art of hair transplanting.

As soon as I have laid the groundwork for this, I will make the application available online.

I'm not sure yet if I'm joking.


LOL!

BTW Coldfeet great initial post. Very interesting.
 
So my conclusion that I have come up with from this entire discussion so far is: obviously you're not going into medicine for the right reasons. If you're going into it worried about what other doctors are saying to you like "how horrible the pay is, dealing with lawsuits & insurance companies...and that you should do something 'mid-level"? Why the F*** did you even start this journey in the first place?! To truly succeed and be happy in life, you have to love what you're doing. All the doctors that compain, personally to me, look as if they went into medicine for the wrong reasons. I however am not, and it doesn't matter to me (to some extent) what my salary is at the end of it all. As long as I love what I do and am happy with how much I've accomplished, isn't that the most important thing? I love to learn, and could care less how long I am in school for or how much debt I have to pay off. What I will not do is after working my ass off getting there, then deciding to take the easy route (by not necessarily giving up), but not getting as far in your first goals by becoming a PA or NP. You're lowering your standards for yourself. I would feel like such a quitter and failure at life if I just gave up and decided to do something different...so that in the future I might not have deal with the **** that in reality, everyone else bitches about no matter what proffession you go into! I hope you think about all of these opinions in this thread and find out what you're doing with your life, because in the end of course it is your decision...just don't regret whatever you end up choosing.

Sorry if I offended anyone. 🙂 haha
 
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--The grass is greaner on the other side.............but you still have to mow it.

--I heard EM physicians frequently get burned out (I cant imagine it thought)

--Debt doesn't scare me. Leverage can be your friend, if you don't get crazy with it........Now TAXES scare me. Making money is the easy part................keeping money is the tough part!

--not trying to sound arrogant, but making 150k or so is not that much at least as much as it sounds. husband and wife working maybe both have school loans....add in two kids with daycare (my one costs $600/mo.)....cars, mortgage, insurance, etc. I would have said the same thing, but when you add taxes, etc.....it is amazing how little of your cake you get to keep.

--If you find the doctors that complain, those are probably the ones that went into it for the wrong reason, IMHO.

just my $.02
 
If you find the doctors that complain, those are probably the ones that went into it for the wrong reason, IMHO.

Agreed for the majority.

As stated earlier, some older physicians have other reasons.
 
--The grass is greaner on the other side.............but you still have to mow it.

--I heard EM physicians frequently get burned out (I cant imagine it thought)

--Debt doesn't scare me. Leverage can be your friend, if you don't get crazy with it........Now TAXES scare me. Making money is the easy part................keeping money is the tough part!

--not trying to sound arrogant, but making 150k or so is not that much at least as much as it sounds. husband and wife working maybe both have school loans....add in two kids with daycare (my one costs $600/mo.)....cars, mortgage, insurance, etc. I would have said the same thing, but when you add taxes, etc.....it is amazing how little of your cake you get to keep.

--If you find the doctors that complain, those are probably the ones that went into it for the wrong reason, IMHO.

just my $.02

I think the opinion on the salary is totally a matter of perspective. Some people are used to living in a house... I'm used to living in a trailer. To me, 50k/year would be more than comfortable for me. It depends on what you're looking for, and I'm not looking for more than a 2-bedroom and food on the table.
 
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Hi,

What I'm about to write may seem abrasive to some, but I will speak how I see the world. I grew up on a dairy farm. I spent 18 years working from 6:00 AM until 10:00 PM all year long....with going to school, etc, etc. Then I graduated high school and my parents retired from farming. So I was out of a way to make an income. I was hoping to still work on the farm until I figured out what I wanted to do with my life and what I was good at. Therefore, I got a job at a feed mill, worked in a factory (2x), worked at a car repair shop, got laid off twice, got a job picking rocks to eat, got a couple of summer jobs stacking hay in the barn, and so much more. I know what hard work is like. I know what not having a single dollar in the checking account feels like.

So one day I got a job at a hospital. I just randomly applied for job with not expecting a phone call....I had nothing in my resume that related to working with people or in the health care setting. I was literally shocked that I got called in for an interview. So I went in for the interview and was hired a couple of weeks later. When I left that job to move for school, I asked my boss why she hired me. She said, "well, I could tell you were a hard worker. I've hired enough "city" dwellers over the past several years who leave the job because it is hard work. I had a feeling that you wouldn't mind working hard." She was right! I was the only person out of the whole department that loved the job! Everyone else just bitched left and right about how bad their life is and how they hate their job. It turns out that I LOVED working in a hospital setting.

So I spent over three years working that hospital position and tried to figure out if I wanted to do bench research or become a doctor. When I went to college, I did basic research and did stuff at a hospital. I wanted to be in the hospital when I was in the lab!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I did the volunteer stuff and shadowing stuff in the hospitals, almost everyone was bitching about this and that and here I was, a little meaningless nobody that loved the envrionment (remember, I already knew about the paper work, how mean patients can be and ignore adivce, doctors complaining about this and that). Guess what? The bitching and complaining occured in all three hospitals/clinics I"ve been at. I've only met a couple of doctors that actually love what they do.

Having to work hard, work long hours, etc, is new to A LOT of people when they are done with schooling. Most people have never worked a full eight hour shift until after college. I've been doing that for a good 23 years now (before, during and after college). NOT working all day bothers the crap out of me. I once asked my supervisor when I was purging patient charts if I could come in at 6:00 AM on a Saturday morning to get the B's done. She gave me a really weird look and asked me why I would want to get up early on a Saturday morning for and why I would even think about coming in on the weekend for when this is only a volunteer thing. I simply said, "this won't get done if nobody does it." She wouldn't let me get the work done. By the time I got to the C's, she told me to leave the volunteership so others had a chance to do this in the future. This was two years ago already and I know they are not even done with the D's yet....lol, lol, lol.

About medicine, it wouldn't be so bad if the medical school debt wasn't so huge.

Everyone tells me that I'm the hardest working person and the nicest and happiest person they have ever met. How many people do you know that would work a third-shift night auditor position to pay for school? Most people would work at a coffee shop part-time during the day and ask mom and dad to help pay the rent/school.

My neighbors hate their life! Most of my relatives hate their life. Most people that I met in college hate their life (small liberal arts college). Most people that I went to college with bitched about how bad the party scene was. Me, I just went to the library, went to work, watched sports and enjoyed myself and just ignored their bitching.

I always see people complaining about how boring Iowa is. Its like, WTF people, can't you just enjoy what nature gives us and be happy for once?

sure you won't make a lot of money, but so what. I'm working at building at Internet based business and my goal is to simply pay myself a salary of $25,000 a year and keep the rest in another account to keep the money in the company.

Interesting story. You've set yourself up to have one heck of a midlife crisis.
 
I just laugh when anyone thinks that a restaurant is a part-time endeavor. A successful restaurant takes a TON of time. I mean a TON. When you first start you'll easily be putting in 90 hours a week just to keep it afloat. All businesses are hard but a successful food business is completely different, especially since your product is perishable. There are some books you can read that will scare you away from it, but just trust me on this one, save the love of cooking for the family.

Yes, we all know those places where the owner seems to do nothing but when they are first starting they always put the hours in. If they don't, they fail.
 
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