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Mo007

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I read some information on a pre-healthcare magazine called KEEPSAKE 2004 - they talk about healthcare professionals in depth - what they do, what they make, what you need to prepare to become one, etc. They said some nice things about Dentistry on this month's issue - particulary their income.

" What Dentists Make: For general practitioners ages 30-34, the average net income is $165,500. For general practitioners ages 45-49, the average net income is $196,210. For specialists ages 35-39, the average net income is $253,520, and for ages 50-54 is $313,260. "

This is the most upto date salary information I came across... although there are numerous discrepancies, the average Dentist still makes much below those figures when you take the associates incomes into consideration.
 

blankguy

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Originally posted by Mo007
I read some information on a pre-healthcare magazine called KEEPSAKE 2004. They talk about healthcare professionals in depth - what they do, what they make, what you need to prepare to become one, etc. They said some nice things about Dentistry on this month's issue - particulary their income.

" What Dentists Make: For general practitioners ages 30-34, the average net income is $165,500. For general practitioners ages 45-49, the average net income is $196,210. For specialists ages 35-39, the average net income is $253,520, and for ages 50-54 is is $313,260. "

This is the most upto date salary information I cam across... although there are numerous discrepancies, the average Dentist still makes much below those figures when you take the associates incomes into consideration.
What about people who get into the game late?
 

ItsGavinC

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Originally posted by Mo007
... although there are numerous discrepancies, the average Dentist still makes much below those figures when you take the associates incomes into consideration.
It says the average for ages 30-35 is $165,500. That figure probably does take into consideration the incomes that associates make, hence the term "average".
 
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aphistis

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Those numbers seem awfully high to me. It'd be great if they're accurate, but I can't help feeling a little wary.
 

ShawnOne

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I bet the top 5% of incomes drag that "average" up alot.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by ShawnOne
I bet the top 5% of incomes drag that "average" up alot.
True dat. I wonder how far apart the mean and median are.
 

Mo007

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If the bottom 25% of Dentists make $80-$120K (mostly associates), and the middle range (50%) make $120-$180K.... then the top 25% (mainly specialists) make $180K+.... in some cases close to $1 million or more, but extremely rare.

Then its true - the top 5% does pull the average very strong, and the difference between the median and the mean is considerably sizeable.
 

anamod

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If these numbers are net income before taxes i think these are accurate if not low. 40- 49yo $196,210 So these general dentist with lets say a 65% overhead would have to gross 560,000. if you look at any practice for sale sites or backs of magazines (Jada, Dental economics) this is not uncommon. Those of you who read Dentaltown know that a great deal of dentist o that board gross way more than the above numbers
 

Mo007

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Originally posted by anamod
If these numbers are net income before taxes i think these are accurate if not low. 40- 49yo $196,210 So these general dentist with lets say a 65% overhead would have to gross 560,000. if you look at any practice for sale sites or backs of magazines (Jada, Dental economics) this is not uncommon. Those of you who read Dentaltown know that a great deal of dentist o that board gross way more than the above numbers
True.

I say Dentistry will not let us down on the $$$ side at all - I went into this profession for the pretty Dental Hygiene Chics who assist the Dentists. :D
 
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Brachial_Plexus

To Bill,

Your welcome!



To Moo,

I PM'd you.



Ciao, boys.........
 

ItsGavinC

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
Pretty weak..........I make more than this at the age of 33. :p
The ceiling for dentists is very, very, very high :D
 
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Brachial_Plexus

Nowhere near as high as the ceiling for anesthesiologists. We're talking stratosphere, baby! :D
 

blankguy

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
Nowhere near as high as the ceiling for anesthesiologists. We're talking stratosphere, baby! :D
Yup, when you are talking about lawsuits.:laugh:
 

comatose

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BP, you've made your point several times. you are very happy benig very rich. good for you.
 

cali1

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I've done a little research into Brachial_Plexus. Apparantely he is "supposed" to be a gas man, (anesthesiologist). However, I've also found out that his heart was in surgery, but he didn't have the grades and he didn't make the cut. So he's become an anasthesiologist. I found this stuff out because he always compares anathesiology to surgery in the MD forums.
BP, you diss surgery, and its obvious you wanted to become a surgeon. And you diss dentistry, and now I'm wondering if you regret that you weren't a dentist, seeing how everything is all good on this side of the fence. Hmmm....
It so obvious you have an inferiority complex. Stand up, be proud that you're an anesthesiogist, and stop trying to down other fields to make yourself feel better, because it won't make you feel better. And don't make up stuff either, about ludicrus salaries, or anything else, because we're not gonna buy it. And if you're gonna lie, at least keep you lies consistent. You've typed that you're still a resident, and other times you're a practicing doctor. Hmmm.... So again, be proud of whatever it is you do, and try not to be so insecure.
 
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sxr71

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
Nowhere near as high as the ceiling for anesthesiologists. We're talking stratosphere, baby! :D
I remember a time when anesthesiology wasn't so hot. Medical specialties are so cyclical.
 
B

Brachial_Plexus

Originally posted by cali1
"I've done a little research into Brachial_Plexus. Apparantely he is "supposed" to be a gas man, (anesthesiologist). However, I've also found out that his heart was in surgery, but he didn't have the grades and he didn't make the cut. "



Blatantly false......You need excellent grades and clinical skills to be considered for an anesthesiology residency. Look at the recent NRMP data.



"So he's become an anasthesiologist. I found this stuff out because he always compares anathesiology to surgery in the MD forums. "


Okay.......just for your edification, here is how you spell my profession: A-N-E-S-T-H-E-S-I-O-L-O-G-Y.....got it, tool?


"BP, you diss surgery, and its obvious you wanted to become a surgeon. And you diss dentistry, and now I'm wondering if you regret that you weren't a dentist, seeing how everything is all good on this side of the fence. Hmmm.... "


Uhhhhhhhh......sure. I wanted to do a longer residency, work harder and longer hours for less pay, and have my family and kids resent me because I am never home? Right.....I'll take my lifestyle and salary over that of a surgeon anyday!


"It so obvious you have an inferiority complex. Stand up, be proud that you're an anesthesiogist, and stop trying to down other fields to make yourself feel better, because it won't make you feel better. "



Feel just fine, thank you very much! (and its ANESTHESIOLOGIST). There is something on your bookshelf I suggest you blow the dust off now and again, pal........its called a
dictionary.




"And don't make up stuff either, about ludicrus salaries, or anything else, because we're not gonna buy it. And if you're gonna lie, at least keep you lies consistent. You've typed that you're still a resident, and other times you're a practicing doctor"


That's right, champ! NEWSFLASH: RESIDENTS, HAVING COMPLETED THEIR RESIDENCY, BECOME PRACTICING DOCTORS!!!



"Hmmm.... So again, be proud of whatever it is you do, and try not to be so insecure."



Sure! Thank you SOooooooooooooo much for the psychoanalysis. I'm running to the nearest bookstore and purchasing the latest self-help book on improving my self-esteem as we speak. In the meantime however, I'll comfort myself with this mantra: "At least I'm not Cali, at least I'm not Cali, at least I'm not Cali.............

Get real, get educated, get experience, get the tenacity and the warrior instinct, THEN step up to me, son!!
 

booshwa

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This is from the ADEA's 2004 Dental Education At a Glance

Average Net Income: Among the factors contributing to increasing interest in dentistry as a career is the average net income of full-time dentists. The average net income of solo, full-time, dentists in private practice has increased over 89% since 1990, from $94,200 to $177,980 in 2000 (Survey of Dental Practice, American Dental Association, 2001). The net hourly income of dentists now exceeds that of family physicians, general internists, and pediatricians. Reported average incomes depend on length of time in practice, the number of hours spent treating patients, and the use of allied dental personnel. Reported incomes also depend on type of practice. The average net income of solo, full-time, private general practitioners was $159,550 in 2000. It was $270,790 for dental specialists. For new dentists the average net income of new dentists graduating from U.S. dental schools between 1999-2001 it was $142,461; for graduates from 1996-1998 it was $153,174; and for graduates of 1992-1995 it was $174,565 (Survey of New Dentist Financial Issues, American Dental Association, 2002). Additionally, incomes vary by region of the U.S.
 

Mo007

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No offense - but why you loitering in the Dental forums if you are Anesthesiologist? are you regreting something? - should have been a dentist? - if not... then stop measuring-up the two professions. You sound like you are getting a pleasure out of all this contrasts...

Go astray!
 

cali1

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Hey BP, you really need a hug, man. And remember, you may be a loser in high school, but one day you'll be out of there. Keep you head up.
 

azcomdiddy

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
Nowhere near as high as the ceiling for anesthesiologists. We're talking stratosphere, baby! :D
Correction, you did earn a lot. The only reason why anesthesiologists were earning fat paychecks in recent years is because the demand for the field was quite low just 3 years ago. There was a large shortage of anesthesiologists in 2000. That gap no longer exists. The demand has significantly decreased as more and more medical students are choosing to enter "lifestyle" fields like anesthesiology over surgery. When medical students found they could start as an anesthesiologist at 260K, many pursued the path. However, Anesthesiologists are going to take a major pay cut in the future. Most anesthesiologists are dependent upon hospital contracts. Also, you have large groups of anesthesiologists that hire nurse anesthetists and others to do much of the work. Anesthesiologists will always be compensated well but there are far better fields like radiology for example.

Dentists make a lot of money when considering the lack of post graduate training, hours invested and lifestyle. Many dentists with his or her own practice to gross 700-800K with 50-60% of that going to expenses. That still amounts to 300K (pre-tax) income. That is what most orthopedic surgeons earn in large cities. Not bad for 4 years of school, and 4 days a week of schooling. I tell all my friends that if you are going into medicine for the money, you should consider dentistry and podiatry instead. It's a far better investment. :)
 
B

Brachial_Plexus

Originally posted by cali1
Keep you head up.
Mmm, hmmm.........and YOU keep "you" English textbook handy.

(Ever consider proofreading your idiotic posts?)

:laugh: :clap: :laugh: :clap: :laugh:
 
B

Brachial_Plexus

Originally posted by azcomdiddy
Correction, you did earn a lot.
CORRECTION: I DO EARN A LOT...........


Jeez, some people just don't get it! :confused: :confused: :confused:
 

aphistis

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Hey BP, you really need a hug, man. And remember, you may be a loser in high school, but one day you'll be out of there. Keep you head up.
Mmm, hmmm.........and YOU keep "you" English textbook handy.
(Ever consider proofreading your idiotic posts?)

:laugh: :clap: :laugh: :clap: :laugh: [/B]
How about the two of you take the urination competition to PM, so the rest of us don't have to deal with it? ;)
 
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Brachial_Plexus

Originally posted by aphistis
How about the two of you take the urination competition to PM, so the rest of us don't have to deal with it? ;)
How about you replace your avatar so we don't have to deal with the nausea/vomitting associated with viewing it? ;)
 

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Hey BP, even if you do make a lot of money and seem to get a lot of pleasure from bragging about it....who cares. Nobody likes you. I would take respect and integrity over money anyday. You possess neither. You obviously have no social life, no friends, and nothing better to do than post immature messages on an anonymous web forum. You are a disgrace to your profession. Congrats on all of your financial success in life....now work on getting a personality and some friends. Good luck doctor.

P.S. - please do not respond to this.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
How about you replace your avatar so we don't have to deal with the nausea/vomitting associated with viewing it? ;)
And that's what politeness gets me. Time for a long-overdue revision of my ignore list.
 

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
How about you replace your avatar so we don't have to deal with the nausea/vomitting associated with viewing it? ;)
Don't worry about this supposed "Anesthesiologist' guys. He's probably the chu-chu train that never could.:laugh:
 

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Originally posted by Brachial_Plexus
How about you replace your avatar so we don't have to deal with the nausea/vomitting associated with viewing it? ;)
Enjoy it while you can because it won't last. CRNA + increased supply of anesthesiologists = lower salaries.

Anesthesiologist = Surgeon's Mr. Belvedere. :clap: I don't see how anyone could be an anesthesiologist. You are basically a surgeon's b!ch. They order you around and then you go read People magazine while they do real work. You just have to wait in the doctors lounge until they are done. I was observing this the other day and the orthopods were just ridiculing their gas man. Sorry, but I don't want 300K if means I have to read magazines and do crosswords for a living.
 

Mo007

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Originally posted by azcomdiddy
I don't see how anyone could be an anesthesiologist. You are basically a surgeon's b!ch.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm going to remember this quote when I see one... They consider themselves as assistants - what kind of assistant makes that kind of money? - No seriously!... :laugh:

Anas-my-azz-thesiology! :laugh:
 

Mo007

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One way or another, their line of work will be replaced by technology in the future. I mean look at it... if their duty is based on being there to monitor the doses and read machines... the hospitals will be fed up with paying them so much, and will rather have cheaper labor.

azcomdiddy: You are right, they do talk about their income all the time - because my roommate is one... and this one is aware of doing the pitty stuff of doctors.
 

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I am starting my Anesthesiology program this Summer and I am not BP so dont start attacking. I've been perusing around this website for a while now and happened to come across this thread. I could not resist the temptation to post a comment.

My sister is a dentist and so I know exactly how much she makes. All her friends are dentists too and I do hang out with them. I have to say that Dentistry is an excellent choice of profession these days, especially when it comes to poor reimbursements all across Medicine. My family are all in the Medical field and I know exactly the problems they are facing with malpractice premiums and salary cuts. For four years of post-graduate education, you guys are in the dental profession are making very very good salaries! My sister is only 27 when she made her first six-figure income. I am older than her but I have to go through much more training to make that kind of money.

First, I just want to correct the misconception that Anesthesiologist are just "surgeon's bitches" as one poster sarcastically puts it. Anesthesiology is a career that may lack some control when it comes to scheduling operations/procedures etc... (because surgeons are the one doing them), but the anesthesiologist can stop the whole operation at anytime (even before any operation even start). Now who's who biatches?! ahaha.. j/k. Besides, there are many things which the Anesthesiologist get consulted for in the hospital ie.. epidural pain control during labor, sedation during pediatric audio testing, post-op morphine pumps, difficult intubations in the ER, ICU, part of all the CODE BLUE (cardiac arrest) that occurs in the hospital, and a whole host of other things. Next, Anesthesiology is not just a passive, sitting reading a magazine, starring at EKG/BP/HR monitors kind of job. Anesthesiologists must deal with everything that is going on while the patients are under anesthesia like their diabetes, hypertension, dysrhythmias, etc, etc... And that is why you will never see CRNAs "taking over" because it DOES take an extra four year of medical school and four years of post-graduate training to handle these situations. Just ask yourself if you would like to see your father or mother or love one undergoing quadruple-by-pass heart surgery or even neurologic surgery for a stroke/tumor etc.. under someone with a nurse level of training?

In all seriousness, I didnt choose Anesthesiology because of the $$$,$$$ or because I am afraid of one day becoming some body else's bitches, I choose it simply because I like the work. It's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it.


Second, my sister started out being an associate for her dentist boss making 1/3 less than what she brings in for her boss. Now I could have made the same argument that she had been someone else's bitches too, but that's not how I choose to think. As a matter of fact Anesthesiologist do work at dental offices too. I will not comment on how much patients are billed for these services because I dont want to get into the $$$ aspect, but I think you guys as future dentists will be making a whole lotta $$$,$$$ too. Imagine what these dentists have to gross in order to pay six-figure salaries to their associates!! ($2Million/yr in my sister's case). Dentistry still has the advantage of the pay-for-service / out-of-pocket reimbursement, and so you guys will be enjoying what medical doctors in the 80's used to enjoy, and most likely surpass in salary of many current medical docs.

Third, surgeons will always be surgeons so let them be. Everyone in the OR is the "surgeon's bitches" really (this include the scrub nurse, circulating nurse, the student, the resident, the intern, the tech, or who ever else walks into the room). Many surgeons have high egos, under a great deal of stress, divorced, and it shows in their personalities. We are all human beings. In reality, once you are in the clinical setting, you will realize that everyone in the healthcare business is his/her client's/customer's/patient's own "bitches". We are all in the service industry!!!

Fourth, both fields have many things in common. For one thing, both fields require a certain level of competency in manual dexterity. In both fields, "it's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it". I see mouth, throat and tongue when I go to intubate, and you guys see the same when you go put in a filling, a bridge, or a crown. Most importantly, however, both fields are similar because we all use anesthetics! ahaha :D


So my whole point is to try to get along. :thumbup:

Adieu!
 

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thanks for this post. it is a good reminder of how professionals should treat each other- with class and respect. The majority of people in professional schools all worked very hard to ge there, so sometimes the ego gets in the way. But we're all adults now so there's really no need for "my dad is better than your dad" or "my private parts is bigger than yours" type of arguments. Different strokes for different people. The world is a rapidly changing place and having a 'Dr' title is no longer guarantee to riches and prestige. We have to work hard for our money and respect, regardless of whether we're dentists or physicians.
 

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Wow! Great post Bsingle.
 

ItsGavinC

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sxr71 said:
I remember a time when anesthesiology wasn't so hot. Medical specialties are so cyclical.
It seems that all healthcare professions are that way, to one degree or another. I think they are more cyclical than other professions (which are of course cyclical to certain extents).

Dentistry is experiencing a huge upswing right now, both in the profession and in terms of pre-dents. Right now, nearly every card that has been dealt has played perfectly into the dental hand.
 

rcmonkeypie

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I really enjoyed your post. It was a very good read. I have been waiting for a long time for someone from medical forum to post something like this. I love dentistry and everything it has to offer. If I have to choose a career again, I would choose dentistry again only a lot ealier. But, I know so many other people who enjoy medicine regardless money or status. Heck... I am dating one of those people now. :) And, I do get sick! So, thank god there are doctors.... :clap:
 

sxr71

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ItsGavinC said:
It seems that all healthcare professions are that way, to one degree or another. I think they are more cyclical than other professions (which are of course cyclical to certain extents).

Dentistry is experiencing a huge upswing right now, both in the profession and in terms of pre-dents. Right now, nearly every card that has been dealt has played perfectly into the dental hand.

I agree that every health field is cyclical, but some of those medical specialities can really swing up and down. Some of these medical fields can swing from being in great demand to a pretty large oversupply. Whereas dentistry has a highly controlled supply and demand situation. There will be cycles that swing with the state of the economy (since dental work is largely considered elective work), but overall I don't expect to see swings that change my income by large double digit percentages over a period of a few years. I might be wrong on the size and nature of the volatility of the market for dental work, but I haven't heard of any big swings in dentistry either.
 
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