What do dumb high school students think of Obamacare?

[I'm No Superman]

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There Orthoman, I made a thread.

I already know what I think of it, so what do you all think of it?

 

[AntiHouseMD]

I'm conflicted about the Affordable Care Act (never like calling it Obamacare, for some reason). On one hand, it doesn't include tort reform to help doctors stop practicing preventative medicine and it does not address the issue of low payments and bureaucracy that doctors must face in treating Medicaid patients. With more low-income patients needing medical care, the Medicaid issue will only get worse.

On the other hand, several needed provisions are included in the ACA. Individuals are forced to buy health care, tackling the issue of non-insured patients. There will likely be far less ER visits involving issues that should be handled at primary examinations, clearing up the ER for more serious emergencies. With the rise in weight-related diseases expected due to the US obesity epidemic, this is very important. Patients with pre-existing conditions can sign up for health insurance without being denied by health care companies, and young adults can stay on their insurer's plans for an extended period of time. More people will be covered under health insurance, possibly leading to a healthier country (doubtful, but I'm hopeful).

Overall, I don't know how to view it. I like some pieces and dislike others. In the end, though, I think we're better with it than going back to what it was. But, I'm a college freshman, so my view may be somewhat naive.

 

[drorthoman]

Lol, right now, I don't give a **** about Obamacare. I should probably read up on it, but as of right now, I know almost nothing about it, and have other stuff to worry about. Though, if you have the time and energy, please enlighten me about this Obamacare. 🙂

BTW, the thread of this title made me laugh. Lol

 

[FantasyVesperia]

I don't really understand any of it. Government and politics isn't my thing...I got a B in government freshman year lol. I hear about this a lot and I think it's reforming the healthcare system....?? I don't know, I probably sound really dumb right now -.-

 

[I'm No Superman]

Lol, right now, I don't give a **** about Obamacare. I should probably read up on it, but as of right now, I know almost nothing about it, and have other stuff to worry about. Though, if you have the time and energy, please enlighten me about this Obamacare. 🙂

BTW, the thread of this title made me laugh. Lol

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what I think because I'm a smart high school student. 😀

I'm at work right now, I'll write when I have more time.

 

[CeeEstee0]

I like about 60% of the bill. I look at it this way, if it had been vetoed, no one would be discussing health care in this election cycle. (Or at all). This way at least the debate keeps going.

Also, insurance companies are plenty wealthy, and that 'pre-existing' condition stuff was BS.

 

[oGatsby]

I don't have an opinion on it either way, but I do enjoy watching people decry Obama when Romney wanted to do essentially the same thing.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

I don't have an opinion on it either way, but I do enjoy watching people decry Obama when Romney wanted to do essentially the same thing.

No it isn't. Romney's plan is an health-caer plan, designed to make Amercia the best country in the world. Big difference.

(In truth, I live in Massachusetts, and both plans are basically the same exact thing. It is fun watching people go after Obama when Romney basically championed the same thing as governor).

 

[AntiHouseMD]

And on a side-note, much like I prefer not to eat anything I can't pronounce correctly, I don't usually vote for politicians who can't spell the name of the country they want to run right.

 

[I'm No Superman]

What I want to know is what kind of hit the economy will take when 50-80% of America is on Government insurance. IMO the economic crisis = WAY more important than this healthcare stuff.

And I'll post more about the ACA later. I'm trying to make my facts as non biased as possible (its impossible to take all of the bias out of politics 🙂 )

 

[I'm No Superman]

Basic Requirements

Beginning in 2014, Americans will be required to buy government-approved, private health insurance or else pay a penalty.
Health insurance companies will be required to spend on medical care at least 80% of the premium payments they receive from individual and small-group plans (and at least 85% from large group plans). The federal government will define what constitutes medical care.

Immediate Impact in 2010
Creating temporary high-risk pool with subsidized premiums for certain people with pre-existing conditions.
Imposing new taxes on some facilities, such as tanning parlors.
Health insurers raised premiums for Americans as a direct result of President Obama's health care overhaul.

Requirements for Insurance Companies
Prohibit bans on pre-existing health conditions in children, lifetime and annual limits on expenses, and limits coverage exclusions of pre-existing health conditions in adults.
Requires family policies to include children up to age 26.
Does allow states to form compacts in order to allow the interstate sale of insurance.
Requires direct access to obstetrical and gynecological care, which might include abortion.
Creates (by 2014) health insurance exchanges or marketplaces that will be state-based and state-administered, but states can opt out of this if certain conditions are met; insurance can be sold within the exchange only if government-approved, but insurance can be sold outside of the exchange.
Prohibits health plans from discriminating against providers, but plans are not required to contract with any provider.
Requires health plans to develop politically correct language services, community outreach and cultural competency trainings.

Employer Requirements
Requires employers having more than 50 full-time employees must provide health insurance or pay a penalty.
Employees having 25 or less full-time employees and average salaries of $50,000 or less can apply for tax credits to provide health insurance to their employees.

Medicaid
ObamaCare expands Medicaid (medical care for the poor) to everyone (under the Medicare age of 65) who has income less than 133% the federal poverty level. States must pay this enormous new burden, but federal government promises to reimburse costs of newly eligible patients under this program from 2014 to 2016.

New Bureaucracy
Establishes a new Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan (CO-OP) program with the goal of creating non-profit, member-run health insurance companies in every state

Now go forth and have opinions on this subject.

 

[Cephal0pod]

My main issue with it is the whole idea of the government forcing the people to buy something or pay a fee (as I understand it) if they don't. I'm all for more people having health insurance, but some people deliberately choose not too because they can't afford it. It just feels to me like the powers that be are overstepping their bounds with this.

Also, what about the potential economic impacts? With our economy already in a rather fragile state, should we really be spending relatively unnecessary enormous chunks of change right now? Helping people pay for medical care is great, don't get me wrong, but we also need to be realistic about what's going on economically.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Here's my philosophy on health care reform and anything else politically-related right now: the government sucks, and no one there now can change that (not Obama nor Romney). I'd be more than happy to look at Washington DC when new blood comes in or government is changed. Until then, I'm focusing on the issues and problems in my life. Seems like a better and more enjoyable pastime.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Well, Obama did say that this would save 140 billion dollars over 10 years.

First, compared to our debt, that is nothing.

Second, given the fact that EVERYTHING that the government does is more expensive than projected, and that the majority of the funding will come from people that can afford insurance.

Kind of related: the fact that over 50% of Americans do not pay income taxes and 100% are given the benefits sickens me. That's why Romney's flat tax idea appeals to me.

 

[drorthoman]

here's my philosophy on health care reform and anything else politically-related right now: The government sucks, and no one there now can change that (not obama nor romney). I'd be more than happy to look at washington dc when new blood comes in or government is changed. Until then, i'm focusing on the issues and problems in my life. Seems like a better and more enjoyable pastime.

+1 👍 👍

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Well, Obama did say that this would save 140 billion dollars over 10 years.

First, compared to our debt, that is nothing.

Second, given the fact that EVERYTHING that the government does is more expensive than projected, and that the majority of the funding will come from people that can afford insurance.

Kind of related: the fact that over 50% of Americans do not pay income taxes and 100% are given the benefits sickens me. That's why Romney's flat tax idea appeals to me.

Just to play devil's advocate (not to say where I stand on the issues). Although I concur $140 billion is nothing compared to our national debt, we are continually outraged by spending scandals that are far less than this. For example, NASA was vilified and gutted by recent spending cuts. In actuality, however, only 6/10 of every penny of every tax dollar went to research. Yet, that was considered a critical and important cut. So, in hindsight, is any progress on the debt worth it, or should we just focus on the largest issues?

My second point is your tax point. Although it is true some Americans do not pay income taxes, is is any worse than the wealthy utilizing legal loopholes (not tax cuts, but offshore accounts, creative management etc.) to avoid paying taxes? And with this, 100% of Americans receive benefits. Both the poor, some of whom could have cheated the system, and the wealthy, some of whom could have cheated the system, can receive benefits. Are the lower classes the only group to blame for this?

Once again, I'm not saying anything against your points. I can definitely see where you're coming from. Just wanted to have a little back-and-forth on it.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Im pretty sure that the NASA cut was purely made to calm the public down about the economy. The economic crisis is essentially being shoved under the table. tea party had the idea that the government should have to balance the budget every year so that they either have a surplus or break even. In response, Biden called them terrorists. If I were to do what the government does, I'd go to jail. I would really like to know how they justify this.

About the loophole argument:

I think that it's bull that people do it, the offshore accounts and tax shelters, but the amount of people that actually do that is probably less than .05%. It sucks and there should be laws against it, but there's still the fact that the majority of Americans receive benefits that the minority of Americans pay for.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Btw, sorry if that looks like the work of a third grader, I've been up for 30 hours now and figured out that I can't sleep on trains.

 

[davidbm95]

No it isn't. Romney's plan is an health-caer plan, designed to make Amercia the best country in the world.

I think we have a Romney advocate?

 

[davidbm95]

A big part of the Obamacare bill is hidden. I know it's not that important but they presume doctors and health care employees salaries may decrease if the bill is passed.

 

[I'm No Superman]

I think we have a Romney advocate?

It looks sarcastic to me.

 

[I'm No Superman]

A big part of the Obamacare bill is hidden. I know it's not that important but they presume doctors and health care employees salaries may decrease if the bill is passed.

It's still important. It's a stupid area to target but effective due to the majority's view on how all doctors are rich and evil. only 10% (I'm pretty sure this is the right number but I'll double check tomorrow) of national health spending goes to doctor's salary. Why don't they cut the cost of malpractice insurance as well?

Maybe there is a correlation between who supports the candidates (ie gives them money) and who gets screwed because of it.

This hasn't happened since Lincoln ( maybe FDR), but there needs to be a president whose main concern isn't getting re-elected before things will get better.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

I think we have a Romney advocate?

Not a Romney or an Obama guy. Just want them to talk about the issues rather than go on about things like Bain, birth certificates, etc. Also, I actually am interested in government and law, but hate the current state of it. Oddly enough.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Btw, sorry if that looks like the work of a third grader, I've been up for 30 hours now and figured out that I can't sleep on trains.

Nope. Those were really good points and well presented. And I agree with your point on finding a president who isn't worried about getting re-elected. Seems like everyone cares more about votes rather than solving the current issues.

 

[genius19971995]

Next year I will be attending Harvard University and I will be one of the only Conservatives at this institution. Obama care represents all the flaws of socialism, and the flaws of the democratic party in general. Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Next year I will be attending Harvard University and I will be one of the only Conservatives at this institution. Obama care represents all the flaws of socialism, and the flaws of the democratic party in general. Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it.

Hey get the hell out of here! It says "dumb" high school students in the title! Although if you missed that, you may qualify...

 

[genius19971995]

Well, I figured since you started it this forum must be the fountain of intellect....

 

[I'm No Superman]

Well, I figured since you started it this forum must be the fountain of intellect....

I'm not sure who you are mr. Harvard, and I was wholeheartedly being sarcastic in my last post, but why on earth would you come to my thread, say you have a definite opinion on the matter, and then refuse to elaborate?

No sense, it makes -Yoda.

 

[drorthoman]

I'm not sure who you are mr. Harvard, and I was wholeheartedly being sarcastic in my last post, but why on earth would you come to my thread, say you have a definite opinion on the matter, and then refuse to elaborate?

No sense, it makes -Yoda.

You guys can continue to make this an argument, but this is what I have to say: "Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it."

The answer to your question, INS.

 

[I'm No Superman]

You guys can continue to make this an argument, but this is what I have to say: "Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it."

The answer to your question, INS.

Then why even say anything? Why waste your time saying "I have an opinion but I don't want to tell you it." If this makes sense to you guys fine, but I'm really having a difficult time with it. It's like having a conversation with your friends to find out which restaurants are good in town and saying, "Well I've been to the Olive Garden." and refusing to go on.

 

[drorthoman]

Then why even say anything? Why waste your time saying "I have an opinion but I don't want to tell you it." If this makes sense to you guys fine, but I'm really having a difficult time with it. It's like having a conversation with your friends to find out which restaurants are good in town and saying, "Well I've been to the Olive Garden." and refusing to go on.

I don't know about you, but I've been in a situation where I've stated something so many times that i sound like a broken record. In other words, I don't feel like stating the reason for why I believe something because I've gotten just so tired of reiterating it to so many different people. I think this is what Genius means by when he says, "Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it."

 

[I'm No Superman]

I don't know about you, but I've been in a situation where I've stated something so many times that i sound like a broken record. In other words, I don't feel like stating the reason for why I believe something because I've gotten just so tired of reiterating it to so many different people. I think this is what Genius means by when he says, "Although I would love to explain why this is so, I have done so countless times, and I am tired of it."

You're not getting my point.

He came on this thread, said "I have an opinion but don't feel like sharing it", then left. All I'm asking is why.

 

[genius19971995]

I was being facetious, but if you so desire me to elaborate, I will. The Affordable Health Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is the biggest attack on economic and social freedom this country has every experienced. According to Chief Justice John Roberts it is also a tax. Despite his sayings, Obama insists that the mandate is NOT a tax, which suggests that the president is a pathological lier. Everyday, we begin to loose our economic and social freedoms. The government once controlled a very small section of the economy, but this continues to grow. First, the Wall-Street bailout, then the government takeover of General Motors, it is just truly amazing. Obamacare will destroy this nation's healthcare system. Imagine waiting several months simply to see a doctor. Imagine needing a knee replacement, but the government refuses to pay for it.
The point is, the government will dictate everything about the healthcare system. By 2035, the cost of Medicare alone will surpass the annual Federal budget. How exactly are we able to pay for this? The point is, we are not able to. The national debt will continue to climb, and before long, we will be in a worse situation than Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland combined and doubled. Imagine what effect this would have on the world economy if they American government defaulted, or simply ran out of money. This will be far worse than the Great Depression.

 

[I'm No Superman]

I was being facetious, but if you so desire me to elaborate, I will. The Affordable Health Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is the biggest attack one economic and social freedom this country has every experienced. According to Chief Justice John Roberts it is also a tax. Despite his sayings, Obama insists that the mandate is NOT a tax, which suggests that the president is a pathological lier. Everyday, we begin to loose our economic and social freedoms. The government once controlled a very small section of the economy, but this continues to grow. First, the Wall-Street bailout, then the government takeover of General Motors, it is just truly amazing. Obamacare will destroy this nation's healthcare system. Imagine waiting several months simply to see a doctor. Imagine needing a knee replacement, but the government refuses to pay for it.
The point is, the government will dictate everything about the healthcare system. By 2035, the cost of Medicare alone will surpass the annual Federal budget. How exactly are we able to pay for this? The point is, we are not able to. The national debt will continue to climb, and before long, we will be in a worse situation than Greece, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland combined and doubled. Imagine what effect this would have on the world economy if they American government defaulted, or simply ran out of money.

Thank you, this is all I ask. It just so happens that I agree with most, if not all of the points that you have made.

Recently oblivious to the world of politics, I've found that one of my favorite parts of it is that how two intelligent people can have vastly similar or vastly different opinions on the same subject. One of my biggest annoyances with this bill that Obama is focusing on health care while the economy is by FAR the most important issue in America right now. There is no way in hell that this system that he says will cut 140 billion in 10 years will decrease government spending.

As I said before, we need leaders whose main goal is to make America better, not to get re-elected.

Nice meeting you, and feel free to swing by the Class of 2012 thread to say hi.

 

[drorthoman]

Thank you, this is all I ask. It just so happens that I agree with most, if not all of the points that you have made.

Recently oblivious to the world of politics, I've found that one of my favorite parts of it is that how two intelligent people can have vastly similar or vastly different opinions on the same subject. One of my biggest annoyances with this bill that Obama is focusing on health care while the economy is by FAR the most important issue in America right now. There is no way in hell that this system that he says will cut 140 billion in 10 years will decrease government spending.

As I said before, we need leaders whose main goal is to make America better, not to get re-elected.

Nice meeting you, and feel free to swing by the Class of 2012 thread to say hi.

I knew it. You OWN the Class of 2012 thread. I just knew it.

 

[I'm No Superman]

I knew it. You OWN the Class of 2012 thread. I just knew it.

Actually, Doxorubicin is the creator. However, I probably have more posts in that thing than anyone else. I do own the CO2013 thread though .

 

[SirSamAlot]

Essentially, in my opinion, America is in a deep hole. Unless we stop raking up debt, America is always going to be on the verge of collapse. You can only borrow so much before people stop lending. Also our government spends taxpayer money on $8 to $12 muffins, vacations, and parties for government members. The only way to change is that the American people fight in numbers and I believe that will only happen until America is about to collapse or the amount of people unemployed as a percent of America's able to work population is equivalent or near equivalent to Greece. Hopefully I am wrong that the American people wait that long to fight.

 

[genius19971995]

Thank you, this is all I ask. It just so happens that I agree with most, if not all of the points that you have made.

Recently oblivious to the world of politics, I've found that one of my favorite parts of it is that how two intelligent people can have vastly similar or vastly different opinions on the same subject. One of my biggest annoyances with this bill that Obama is focusing on health care while the economy is by FAR the most important issue in America right now. There is no way in hell that this system that he says will cut 140 billion in 10 years will decrease government spending.

As I said before, we need leaders whose main goal is to make America better, not to get re-elected.

Nice meeting you, and feel free to swing by the Class of 2012 thread to say hi.

I have continuously questioned this notion of why intellectually competent individuals cannot agree on much. All in all, I find that it comes down to one's patriotism for their own country. I am sure there are millions of liberals who actually believe what they are doing is good for this country, but liberal leaders such as Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reed simply do not love this country. Obama continually visits Europe and apologizes for America. If you still believe that liberals love this country, at least those with the intelligence to know what is actually occurring, take a look at Michael Moore.

 

[I'm No Superman]

I personally think that the reason why people have different opinions on non-social issues (gay marriage, abortion etc.) is that the proposed solutions to these issues help either the people, or the country. Rarely is it both. Take the ACA for example. Anyone with a brain knows that our economy won't get any better with this bill. On the other hand, the bill should improve the quality of life for many Americans who don't have/can't afford health insurance.

Essentially, it all comes down to: Do I want to help the people, or do I want to help the country. The way that I see it, democrats tend to favor the former while the republicans tend to favor the latter. I'm a republican because I believe that in order to help the people, you have to fix the country's problems, a philosophy that seems to be on par with most of their actions. Other people may think that in order to fix the country's problems, you have to help the people.

I think flat out saying that Obama, Clinton, and Reid hate America is rather extreme, no letter how much we disagree with their actions.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

I personally think that the reason why people have different opinions on non-social issues (gay marriage, abortion etc.) is that the proposed solutions to these issues help either the people, or the country. Rarely is it both. Take the ACA for example. Anyone with a brain knows that our economy won't get any better with this bill. On the other hand, the bill should improve the quality of life for many Americans who don't have/can't afford health insurance.

Essentially, it all comes down to: Do I want to help the people, or do I want to help the country. The way that I see it, democrats tend to favor the former while the republicans tend to favor the latter. I'm a republican because I believe that in order to help the people, you have to fix the country's problems, a philosophy that seems to be on par with most of their actions. Other people may think that in order to fix the country's problems, you have to help the people.

I think flat out saying that Obama, Clinton, and Reid hate America is rather extreme, no letter how much we disagree with their actions.

That is true. It tends to be a matter of philosophy rather than morality. I can't stand when people say that only Republicans or only Democrats are ruining the country. It isn't exclusive. By maintaining a government where the prevailing theme is "All or Nothing," nothing is going to be done. Portraying opponents as horrific people, as the current politicians have seemingly taken a liking to, does not help at all. Compromise isn't a bad word.

 

[genius19971995]

I personally think that the reason why people have different opinions on non-social issues (gay marriage, abortion etc.) is that the proposed solutions to these issues help either the people, or the country. Rarely is it both. Take the ACA for example. Anyone with a brain knows that our economy won't get any better with this bill. On the other hand, the bill should improve the quality of life for many Americans who don't have/can't afford health insurance.

Essentially, it all comes down to: Do I want to help the people, or do I want to help the country. The way that I see it, democrats tend to favor the former while the republicans tend to favor the latter. I'm a republican because I believe that in order to help the people, you have to fix the country's problems, a philosophy that seems to be on par with most of their actions. Other people may think that in order to fix the country's problems, you have to help the people.

I think flat out saying that Obama, Clinton, and Reid hate America is rather extreme, no letter how much we disagree with their actions.

I strongly disagree with your statement. It does not come down to determining what is better for the country or what is better for the people. These are contradictory statements. What is good for the country is also good for the people. The United States was made for the people and by the people. Secondly, the Affordable Care Act is NOT helping the American public. If someone shot me in the chest and they took me to the emergency room, it is not like they are simply going to let me die. Ever heard of the hippocratic oath? This law is bad for the country, and bad for the people. I live in a state that borders Canada, and all the Canadians visit the United States for treatment for several reasons: The government refuses them healthcare because of their age, and they do not think they are worth it, Those who need treatment for diseases such as cancer are required to wait countless months. By this time they are dead, saving the government money. How exactly do you believe the government is going to pay for this? Do not be surprised when death panels are initiated.

Secondly, Obama and the democrats do believe that the Affordable Care Act will benefit the economy. He has said this countless times. Simply turn on the news---- not CNN or MSNBC, try Fox News. On Fox News, the moment the ACA was deemed constitutional, they had a panel. This panel consisted of one conservative and one liberal debating this law. At the same moment on MSNBC, they had two liberals, a liberal doctor and a liberal nurse, discussing how great this law is for this country. People are being brainwashed by MSNBC.

Thirdly, I know several military members, including those found in all the branches of military that firmly believe Obama is trying to destroy this country. Look at what he has done this far. He is trying to completely eliminate our nuclear weapons, defunding the military when we are in a war, boosting social programs so people do not have to get a job. This is true, the Republicans attempted to enforce a law that states to remain on unemployment, you are required to look for a job and submit applications. Obama shot this down. Now, you do not even need an ID to vote thanks to Barack Obama. now illegal immigrants are free to vote. This man shows his hostile disposition toward the United States on a continual basis.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

I strongly disagree with your statement. It does not come down to determining what is better for the country or what is better for the people. These are contradictory statements. What is good for the country is also good for the people. The United States was made for the people and by the people. Secondly, the Affordable Care Act is NOT helping the American public. If someone shot me in the chest and they took me to the emergency room, it is not like they are simply going to let me die. Ever heard of the hippocratic oath? This law is bad for the country, and bad for the people. I live in a state that borders Canada, and all the Canadians visit the United States for treatment for several reasons: The government refuses them healthcare because of their age, and they do not think they are worth it, Those who need treatment for diseases such as cancer are required to wait countless months. By this time they are dead, saving the government money. How exactly do you believe the government is going to pay for this? Do not be surprised when death panels are initiated.

Secondly, Obama and the democrats do believe that the Affordable Care Act will benefit the economy. He has said this countless times. Simply turn on the news---- not CNN or MSNBC, try Fox News. On Fox News, the moment the ACA was deemed constitutional, they had a panel. This panel consisted of one conservative and one liberal debating this law. At the same moment on MSNBC, they had two liberals, a liberal doctor and a liberal nurse, discussing how great this law is for this country. People are being brainwashed by MSNBC.

Thirdly, I know several military members, including those found in all the branches of military that firmly believe Obama is trying to destroy this country. Look at what he has done this far. He is trying to completely eliminate our nuclear weapons, defunding the military when we are in a war, boosting social programs so people do not have to get a job. This is true, the Republicans attempted to enforce a law that states to remain on unemployment, you are required to look for a job and submit applications. Obama shot this down. Now, you do not even need an ID to vote thanks to Barack Obama. now illegal immigrants are free to vote. This man shows his hostile disposition toward the United States on a continual basis.

I disagree with your findings. First of all, what is good for the country is not always good for the people. For example, taxes are good for the country to provide the financial backing for the government. However, as any family will tell you, more taxes are not good for the people.

Now, it is true that the Hippocratic Oath will not allow physicians to let people die. So, if you were shot in the chest, they would in all likelihood save your life. However, the problem with health care today doesn't involve emergency situations. Rather, there are non-insured patients using the emergency room for routine medical care because that is the only way they can receive care. There have even been patients seeking general dental care at ER's. You are not discussing the main issue with your point.

I won't discuss FOX News vs. MSNBC because it seems irrelevant to the entire discussion. The only thing I'll say is that I have seen instances on both stations where the commentators were clearly pushing political agendas. But I digress.

Isn't it true that the military members you know could possibly be politically inclined towards conservatism? Therefore, what they construe to be the President's attempt to destroy this country is instead their dislike for liberal policies. A liberal could attempt to make the same point when it comes to Republican policy.

I must also argue with your point that Obama is showing his "hostile disposition" towards the United States. Personally, I do not know many people who actually hate the United States. Rather, it is simply a matter of contrasting viewpoints. What someone may think is best for the country may not be viewed as ideally by someone with differing ideals. Do not make someone who simply disagrees with you to be an evil person. Argue issues, not morality.

 

[genius19971995]

I disagree with your findings. First of all, what is good for the country is not always good for the people. For example, taxes are good for the country to provide the financial backing for the government. However, as any family will tell you, more taxes are not good for the people.

Now, it is true that the Hippocratic Oath will not allow physicians to let people die. So, if you were shot in the chest, they would in all likelihood save your life. However, the problem with health care today doesn't involve emergency situations. Rather, there are non-insured patients using the emergency room for routine medical care because that is the only way they can receive care. There have even been patients seeking general dental care at ER's. You are not discussing the main issue with your point.

I won't discuss FOX News vs. MSNBC because it seems irrelevant to the entire discussion. The only thing I'll say is that I have seen instances on both stations where the commentators were clearly pushing political agendas. But I digress.

Isn't it true that the military members you know could possibly be politically inclined towards conservatism? Therefore, what they construe to be the President's attempt to destroy this country is instead their dislike for liberal policies. A liberal could attempt to make the same point when it comes to Republican policy.

I must also argue with your point that Obama is showing his "hostile disposition" towards the United States. Personally, I do not know many people who actually hate the United States. Rather, it is simply a matter of contrasting viewpoints. What someone may think is best for the country may not be viewed as ideally by someone with differing ideals. Do not make someone who simply disagrees with you to be an evil person. Argue issues, not morality.

You are a fool. It is rather unfortunate, but yet unsurprising to inform you of such a notion. What is good for the country is always good for the people. What are you hypothesizing? The country is NOT the government, the country is the people. Taxes are NOT good for the country simply because excess government spending is never a good thing. What exactly does the government need this additional revenue for? Extra taxes on business hurts the companies, which results in people becoming unemployed. These people then collect welfare because they cannot find employment. How is this a good thing? Unemployment goes up, therefore the actual people paying taxes goes down; Consequently, the national debt rises.

Secondly, the rest of us are from planet Earth. I do not know how it is done on cloud 9, but here we provide care for our citizens regardless. You can absolutely receive life or death care if you do not have insurance. Maybe not for a penis enlargement, but for anything life threatening. I never said our healthcare system is not flawed, I simply said Obama care is not the answer. Look into Paul Ryan's plan.

Fox news and MSNBC are absolutely relevant to this discussion. You do not know what you are talking about. Occasionally when Fox interviews a Congressman they will be pushing a political point, but they always give both sides of the issue. MSNBC is biased and for misguided individuals such as yourself.

No a liberal could not make that argument. When you are getting shot at by terrorists, and the president does nothing but cut your funding, what do you think the reaction is going to be. Our service members are treated like sh^t. Find one active duty service member in the last twenty-years that supports Obama. You are just such a fool, it absolutely astonishes me.

Obama DOES hate this country. There are several leaders that have opinions different then mine such as FDR. But he did NOT go around apologizing for America's evils. If you read my example about the welfare reform act that Obama shot down, how is doing so good for the country. You are encouraging people not to find a job, so why bother? You simply cannot argue this because it is the truth. Republicans tried to pass a law where welfare recipients had to send it job applications, Obama destroyed this. What do you call this? Encouraging people to sit on welfare? Obama is a socialist that truly hates this country. He will not get his brother out of poverty in Africa, because he knows he will tell the truth about obama and the Kenyan hut he was born in. Obama's brother is impoverished, but was interviewed and is a capitalist. He used examples such as comparing Asian countries to African ones. Asian countries took advantage of their resources and manufacturing capabilities, Africa did not. This was because of corruption and encouraging people to be lazy. Obama's own flesh and blood said the preceding. Not me.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Argue issues, not morality.

This

Calling the opposing party "evil" is a propaganda technique used to persuade the uninformed. Unfortunately, it is a very effective technique and will continue to be used in political campaigning. You're obviously smart genius199something, I'm not sure why you would resort to mudslinging. I believe that to be truly informed, you should be able to look at the issues from every perspective.

 

[genius19971995]

I agree completely. I have tried. Simply look at what this politicians have done to this country in the preceding years. Look at Obama when he said that if you built a business, you did not get there on your own. What exactly do you call that? That is a personal attack on every entrepreneur and every American in general. That is an evil, condescending, and anti-American statement.

PS: I am not a propagandist.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

If I remember correctly, I believe the President later said that he was referring to the middle class. Therefore, every business was built up by the middle class, which is true in a way.

You have called a remark given by a politician "evil" and "anti-American." How does that help the discussion? When you responded to my remarks, you called me a "fool" twice. Personally, I really don't care. By resorting to personal attacks and such descriptions, though, you completely disregard the opposing side's beliefs as wrong. That, in itself, is condescending. Do you know Henry Clay? He was one of the most influential Congressmen in the history of the United States, and he had a history of reaching compromises with the other side. By considering both sides of the issue, you can reach a much more wholesome and complete decision rather than solely focusing on one side. I am not saying you are on the wrong side; I agree with some of your opinions. However, I take issue with how you argue your viewpoints. Be polite, calm, and approachable. That is the best way to deal with politics.

 

[I'm No Superman]

Obama is evil, AHMD and INS are idiots, I am a Harvard genius.

Well... Not sure where to start...

1. I am a republican. I disagree with what you are saying about Obama'a evil intentions. No one within our governmental system has a secret agenda to turn our country to ashes. Also, 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

2. Both AHMD and my self are exceptionally bright individuals who have an idea what we are talking about and are open to others ideas.

3. You very well may be. Getting in to Harvard is quite an accomplishment an you should be proud of it, but no one besides you and your parents give a ****. It doesn't make you special or entitled to anything. Get over yourself.

Now, if you want to have a civil discussion about politics, feel free.

 

[genius19971995]

No, because no one cares about Henry Clay. Have you ever heard of Ronal Reagan. He made negotiations with the other side, and he was the most-conservative president in American History. He always stated that if you could get 70% of what you wanted, you could get the other 30% later.

PS: You are a fool. The president never said anything about the middle class in this regard making you a fool. And this statement is in no way true. If you would actually listen to what the president said, he said that you did not build your business on your own. The government helped you. Do not believe me? See the link. He clearly state government.

Watch the first 30 seconds please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK19WEwOIOo&feature=related

or watch its entirety:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=192oEC5TX_Q

 

[genius19971995]

I'm No Superman. You are a liar, I never said that.

 

[genius19971995]

Well... Not sure where to start...

1. I am a republican. I disagree with what you are saying about Obama'a evil intentions. No one within our governmental system has a secret agenda to turn our country to ashes. Also, 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

2. Both AHMD and my self are exceptionally bright individuals who have an idea what we are talking about and are open to others ideas.

3. You very well may be. Getting in to Harvard is quite an accomplishment an you should be proud of it, but no one besides you and your parents give a ****. It doesn't make you special or entitled to anything. Get over yourself.

Now, if you want to have a civil discussion about politics, feel free.

I never said I was a Harvard genius. You have no future lying, especially when you do so on the internet.