i know you're biased because "raw diet is obviously superior" but some of the diets you mentioned actually are good diets.
So I'm biased? Did it ever occur to you all that the Big Three (Purina, Hill's, and IAMS) are not as infallible as they would have you believe? The
massive food recalls aside, (and I said this on the other thread in the pre-vet folder) but I did 4 years of nutritional studies with Purina and Harlan Teklad feeds on how rodent diets interact with endocrine disrupters during my undergrad research and during the research for my masters degree. Purina even admitted to my faculty adviser they had no idea where many of their ingredients were coming from, if they were contaminated with mercury and pesticides from the fish meal and wheat, corn, and soy, why feed even in the same lot was coming up with different phytoestrogen levels from bag to bag. When your diets are
absolutely critical in maintaining nutritional levels for research results that dictate things like legislation on certain chemicals and the industry standard diet (Purina 5001 and 5008) can't even hope to say they are, that makes me not real confident in what goes into Fluffy's bowl every night.
we did a seminar recently on the raw/BARF feeding phenomenon, and if i remember correctly, upwards of 60% of the dogs had severe deficiencies while on these diets. Theoretically, they work, but you have to be very careful about what you feed....or it gets very messed up and the dog suffers in the long run.
So who paid for this seminar? Because I'm sure the pet food industry, which sponsors just about everything under the sun in the veterinary world, would give the raw diet a standing ovation.
🙄 I like the raw diet and it suits me (and many others in the working dog world), but I'm not one of the raw diet feeders that tell everyone to just automatically switch. It's not for everyone and it certainly takes a bit more work and research, which is why I don't have an issue suggesting commercial diets with decent ingredients. However, I do feel absolutely comfortable with it. They get a very wide range of meat sources (meat, eggs, bone, and organ meat). I think where you hear of rich old ladies feeding their froo froo dogs nothing but cooked salmon and white rice, yeah, you'll get nutritional deficiencies. Absolutely. I'd never recommend anyone do that for longer than say a food allergy elimination diet trial. That's why I consulted numerous sources both written, on the internet, and in person (and my own brain!) on how to model my raw diet.
Honestly, nutrition is not rocket science. Having some industry hack come in and tell you that feeding grain heavy food with fillers and harmful preservatives with some vitamins and minerals thrown in is more beneficial to what dogs and other canids have been designed to eat for thousands or millions of years should be insulting to our collective intelligence. Look in any book on food allergies and you'll always see that wheat, corn, soy, brewers yeast, etc are the big guns. And what is in Hill's, Purina, and IAMS? Potential allergens with corn, wheat, and soy, fillers like beet pulp, less nutritious grain fractions (i.e.-rice bran or brewers rice instead of the whole rice), unnamed meat sources, and by-products. Here's some of "the best of the best" of these lines and let the ingredients, not the free products, the free/cheap food, or the free sponsorship we all get, speak for themselves:
IAMS Healthy Naturals: Chicken,
Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E),
Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product,
Brewers Dried Yeast, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Beta-Carotene, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Flax Meal, Apple Pomace, Dried Carrots, Dried Peas, Choline Chloride, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), L-Carnitine, Rosemary Extract
Purina Pro Plan Natural Lamb & Rice:
Lamb,
brewers rice, chicken meal,
corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn,
animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E),
corn bran, oat meal, dried egg product,
dried beet pulp, animal digest, calcium phosphate, fish oil, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, salt, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.
Hill's Science Diet Nature's Best Chicken and Brown Rice:
Chicken, Brown Rice,
Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Cranberries,
Soybean Oil, Peas, Carrots,
Dried Beet Pulp, Iodized Salt, Flaxseed, Broccoli, Vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Calcium Carbonate, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.
Hill's Science Diet Adult Original:
Chicken,
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), C
orn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Chicken Liver Flavor,
Soybean Oil, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), DL-Methionine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.
Here's one from my "decent" list.
Canidae All Life Stages:
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.
No food is perfect for every dog and some will have special needs. However, just because they throw in some nice vitamins and minerals and maybe even some fish oil and glucosamine just for fun, does not make the base ingredients suck less.
So did you or anyone else actually answer the question that I laid out numerous times? Are grains and filler in those other diets actually good for our pets? I think you are addressing this to JerseyisCutest, but regardless, your own silence is pretty indicative and for the reasons I laid out, I hope you can see that it's naive to see that Purina, IAMS, Hill's, et al. are as infallible as you think. Nutrition is only complicated when humans try to make it so...and especially when it's a multi-billion dollar business!
