What do you predict will happen to IM under Medicare for All?

[bronx43]

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If you are a high school dropout who got a predatory loan after a GED and dropped out again, I don’t know if it is worth forgiving that persons debt. They wouldn’t be able to contribute to market growth anyway, so why invest in forgiveness when there is no possibility for return. BUT, a physician with $300,000 income would purchase a home, purchase a car, invest more in Vanguard. It would grow the economy.

Lol ok. So debt forgiveness for me but not for thee.

Funny how people with pseudo understanding of macroeconomics come up with self serving policies.

 

[Espadaleader]

I am for debt forgiveness for everyone. I was making a point for conservatives that rule out any conversation on debt relief as libtard BS. Obv, I could make a case on why debt relief for everyone is good too.

 

[wamcp]

I hate when people tout "The rest of the world has better healthcare outcomes than we do" as a reason we need to change our system. Pleeaase, if you think changing our system will "Improve healthcare outcomes": You. Do. Not. Understand. American. Mentality.

We could have the most amazing "system" in the world. Everyone can go to the Doctor, whenever they want. Free of charge!

The obesity, heart disease, diabetes, gun violence, lack of knowledge, cholesterol, domestic violence, cancer rates, etc, etc will all still be there, just as high as ever, because Americans DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR HEALTH.

Instead of avoiding the doctor out of fear you can't pay, you'll just induldge even more because "Well hey I got me some healthcare now I can eat all the tacos in the world and just get drugs to fix it!!!"

It's a cultural and educational problem. Not a Healthcare problem.
If our exact system was in Japan, guess what? They'd have AMAZING healthcare. Because they CARE. Their parents instill upon them values of healthy foods, exercise, and well-being.

We definitely need to fix things in our healthcare to chop down on waste, that's 100%. But changing the system and making things "socialized" is not the golden ticket to a better society.

This is an EXTREMELY key and salient point.

Take a look at Mexico.
They have UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!
And also the second highest obesity rate (behind America) among the OECD countries.

Guess how they rank on healthcare outcomes?


Dead.
Freaking.
Last.

34th out of 34 among the OECD.

Free healthcare for everyone doesn’t do JACK if your population gives zero crap about their own health!

 

[Lawpy]

Overall, after doing an MBA, physician’s are very poor in economics, market dynamics etc. y’all are caught up in liberal vs. conservative. That conversation is for losers.

This is true, which is why i usually ignore threads regarding finances and economics, since it’s not worth the time.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Lol ok. So debt forgiveness for me but not for thee.

Funny how people with pseudo understanding of macroeconomics come up with self serving policies.

To be honest I am actually not into paying for people who are underperforming. I'm okay with debt forgiveness for everyone, but the moment you're just going to college because you have nothing else to do and suddenly it's "free" so "why not go to school?".... That's not something I want my tax money to go to. I'd rather free tuition being more of a scholarship system - where you lose it if you drop below a certain GPA or what not

 

[NotAProgDirector]

LOL
How can debt be "cancelled"?
Who pays that money back? Where does that money come from?

Hmmmmm.
Let's see if the Pre-Med forums can figure that one out.

To be fair to Warren, she is very clear that this is paid for by a 2%/3% wealth tax. Perhaps a wealth tax is a bad idea, and perhaps loan forgiveness is a bad idea. But at least she's actually paying for what she's recommending. Too many other politicians wave their hands and say "it will pay for itself" -- whether it's a tax cut or infrastructure investment etc. And it never does, of course. Or it pays for itself by averaging the cost over 20 years, where the "benefit" sunsets in 10 (but everyone knows it will get extended).

So, like or hate the idea, at least she's actually funding it.

 

[Eyeronic]

To be fair to Warren, she is very clear that this is paid for by a 2%/3% wealth tax. Perhaps a wealth tax is a bad idea, and perhaps loan forgiveness is a bad idea. But at least she's actually paying for what she's recommending. Too many other politicians wave their hands and say "it will pay for itself" -- whether it's a tax cut or infrastructure investment etc. And it never does, of course. Or it pays for itself by averaging the cost over 20 years, where the "benefit" sunsets in 10 (but everyone knows it will get extended).

So, like or hate the idea, at least she's actually funding it.

You missed the point.

 

[nimbus]

This is an EXTREMELY key and salient point.

Take a look at Mexico.
They have UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!
And also the second highest obesity rate (behind America) among the OECD countries.

Guess how they rank on healthcare outcomes?


Dead.
Freaking.
Last.

34th out of 34 among the OECD.

Free healthcare for everyone doesn’t do JACK if your population gives zero crap about their own health!

Problem is that they started out dead last and their public expenditure on healthcare is almost dead last (32/34). It is an underfunded program and universal healthcare in name only. They also have a thriving private healthcare industry accessible to about 10% of the population.

Universal healthcare is a laudable goal. I’m all for it as long as it is adequately funded and not just another unfunded mandate. But universal healthcare is going to cost more than what we have now, not less. You can’t get something for nothing.

 

[wamcp]

Problem is that they started out dead last and their public expenditure on healthcare is almost dead last (32/34). It is an underfunded program and universal healthcare in name only. They also have a thriving private healthcare industry accessible to about 10% of the population.

Universal healthcare is a laudable goal. I’m all for it as long as it is adequately funded and not just another unfunded mandate. But universal healthcare is going to cost more than what we have now, not less. You can’t get something for nothing.

Universal healthcare in America already exists and it’s already fully funded by our society. It’s called “go to the ER” any time any where. No physician or hospital will deny you care.

The other day, I saw a 50 year old spanish speaking only, undocumented illegal immigrant, spend 50 days in our hospital before finally passing away. He drank himself into decompensated cirrhosis and required hemodialysis towards the end.
No person told him he couldn’t get treatment just cause he had no money or insurance. Nor did anyone in his 1000 previous hospital stays for his self induced alcohol related problems told him to get out, either.

Changing to single payer healthcare is just redistributing the costs of other people’s bad decisions onto physicians who try to save them. The overall health outcomes are not going to change.

I do not want my income to be slashed 50% like the other ‘socialist’ countries already pay their docs, and end up working half of my career for free, as Americans or illegals alike are not going to care for themselves any better.

 

[deleted480308]

I am for debt forgiveness for everyone. I was making a point for conservatives that rule out any conversation on debt relief as libtard BS. Obv, I could make a case on why debt relief for everyone is good too.

It’s a horrible idea. It removes the need to properly calculate return on investment and risk when choosing education.

The risk should not be socialized. You bought it, you pay for it

 

[nimbus]

It’s a horrible idea. It removes the need to properly calculate return on investment and risk when choosing education.

The risk should not be socialized. You bought it, you pay for it

But can we get debt relief on Porsches?😉

That said, if debt relief becomes a thing, I will go into education because that’s where the money will flow.

 

[Osminog]

I am for debt forgiveness for everyone. I was making a point for conservatives that rule out any conversation on debt relief as libtard BS. Obv, I could make a case on why debt relief for everyone is good too.

When you use subsidies to compensate people for the negative outcomes of their investments, you create an incentive for them to take on more risk, since they expect to benefit from the upside while the government covers the downside. The price of the investments increase, and consumers become more eager to invest. Eventually the government runs out of taxpayer money to keep funding people's ever-growing investments and the system collapses, causing widespread financial ruin.

The above situation is precisely what is happening with higher education today. The government subsidizes degrees with grants and loans, and as a direct consequence, tuition increases on a yearly basis while the number of people entering college grows. Debt forgiveness for student loans would only exacerbate this crisis and hasten the inevitable popping of the higher education bubble.