What do you think about this -- failing a class with a 90+%

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pharmdarling said:
A little background: I am currently a P2 at a private university. Our school requires a 6-semester series, taken each semester P1-P3 years, that teaches "practical" applications. In order to take the next course in the series, you must pass the previous course with a 70%. Sounds pretty normal, right? Not quite. You also need to pass EVERY SINGLE component of the course with a 70%, which includes every assignment, test, section of a test, etc. This means that you could have overall earned a 95% in the course, but you fail it if on one of the components you scored less than a 70%.

This semester, they included a "sterile products" section on our lab practical. This is something that we did ONCE P1 year, and it decided to pop up on this year's practical. Anyway, I was ONE POINT away from passing this section. Because of this, my school deemed me unfit to continue on track to graduate in 2012. That means that should I choose to continue my education in pharmacy, I will need to attend an extra year in school because I missed one point on my sterile products exam. I have nearly an A-average, and I have successfully completed all of my courses up until this point. I see absolutely no benefit in making me sit around for a year so I can re-take one class.

I find it ironic that several students at my school have failed 3 or 4 classes in a semester (OTC, Therapeutics, pharmacology, kinetics) and retook them all P3 year, and were able to graduate on time. But I miss one point on a practical, even though I have an A in the class, and have to graduate a year late.

If anyone sees any logic in this system whatsoever, please enlighten me. I'm honestly questioning if it's going to be worth the extra year or not.
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I do not like this policy either, a few of the courses at my school are like this. But it is no secret and is always explained in the syllabus. Because my class knows each test/assignment could mean failing the course, we all take everything VERY seriously....

When an assignment could mean another year of tuition, another year of school, lost year of employment, etc.. I tend to take it seriously and make sure I pass. I do not know what else to say.
 
pharmdarling said:
A little background: I am currently a P2 at a private university. Our school requires a 6-semester series, taken each semester P1-P3 years, that teaches "practical" applications. In order to take the next course in the series, you must pass the previous course with a 70%. Sounds pretty normal, right? Not quite. You also need to pass EVERY SINGLE component of the course with a 70%, which includes every assignment, test, section of a test, etc. This means that you could have overall earned a 95% in the course, but you fail it if on one of the components you scored less than a 70%.

This semester, they included a "sterile products" section on our lab practical. This is something that we did ONCE P1 year, and it decided to pop up on this year's practical. Anyway, I was ONE POINT away from passing this section. Because of this, my school deemed me unfit to continue on track to graduate in 2012. That means that should I choose to continue my education in pharmacy, I will need to attend an extra year in school because I missed one point on my sterile products exam. I have nearly an A-average, and I have successfully completed all of my courses up until this point. I see absolutely no benefit in making me sit around for a year so I can re-take one class.

I find it ironic that several students at my school have failed 3 or 4 classes in a semester (OTC, Therapeutics, pharmacology, kinetics) and retook them all P3 year, and were able to graduate on time. But I miss one point on a practical, even though I have an A in the class, and have to graduate a year late.

If anyone sees any logic in this system whatsoever, please enlighten me. I'm honestly questioning if it's going to be worth the extra year or not.
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Go straight to the dean and explain your situation. The school is as worried about attrition as you are!
 
pharmdstudent said:
go straight to the dean and explain your situation. The school is as worried about attrition as you are!
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THIS!!!

I have a feeling things will turn out ok for you after consulting the dean. Policies in the student handbook are not set in stone.
 
You should try to talk to the Dean because the policy is a little unfair ; and wasting a year for one point does not make sense to me...


pharmdarling said:
A little background: I am currently a P2 at a private university. Our school requires a 6-semester series, taken each semester P1-P3 years, that teaches "practical" applications. In order to take the next course in the series, you must pass the previous course with a 70%. Sounds pretty normal, right? Not quite. You also need to pass EVERY SINGLE component of the course with a 70%, which includes every assignment, test, section of a test, etc. This means that you could have overall earned a 95% in the course, but you fail it if on one of the components you scored less than a 70%.

This semester, they included a "sterile products" section on our lab practical. This is something that we did ONCE P1 year, and it decided to pop up on this year's practical. Anyway, I was ONE POINT away from passing this section. Because of this, my school deemed me unfit to continue on track to graduate in 2012. That means that should I choose to continue my education in pharmacy, I will need to attend an extra year in school because I missed one point on my sterile products exam. I have nearly an A-average, and I have successfully completed all of my courses up until this point. I see absolutely no benefit in making me sit around for a year so I can re-take one class.

I find it ironic that several students at my school have failed 3 or 4 classes in a semester (OTC, Therapeutics, pharmacology, kinetics) and retook them all P3 year, and were able to graduate on time. But I miss one point on a practical, even though I have an A in the class, and have to graduate a year late.

If anyone sees any logic in this system whatsoever, please enlighten me. I'm honestly questioning if it's going to be worth the extra year or not.
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pharmdarling said:
I took it extremely seriously. The week prior to the exam, I discussed my concern with the professor. I also was one of only a few people who attended the review session. Obviously you cannot replicate the scenario at home - I certainly don't know anyone who has an IV hood in their basement, but I tried to review as much as possible. I made an appointment to go over my results, but I doubt it will make a difference.

So the question becomes...who would or would not pay to go the extra year?
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Reviewing it may help if you just need one point and the person in charge is understanding. And as someone already said, meet with the dean and see if they can work something out for you.
 
pharmdarling said:
A little background: I am currently a P2 at a private university. Our school requires a 6-semester series, taken each semester P1-P3 years, that teaches "practical" applications. In order to take the next course in the series, you must pass the previous course with a 70%. Sounds pretty normal, right? Not quite. You also need to pass EVERY SINGLE component of the course with a 70%, which includes every assignment, test, section of a test, etc. This means that you could have overall earned a 95% in the course, but you fail it if on one of the components you scored less than a 70%.

This semester, they included a "sterile products" section on our lab practical. This is something that we did ONCE P1 year, and it decided to pop up on this year's practical. Anyway, I was ONE POINT away from passing this section. Because of this, my school deemed me unfit to continue on track to graduate in 2012. That means that should I choose to continue my education in pharmacy, I will need to attend an extra year in school because I missed one point on my sterile products exam. I have nearly an A-average, and I have successfully completed all of my courses up until this point. I see absolutely no benefit in making me sit around for a year so I can re-take one class.

I find it ironic that several students at my school have failed 3 or 4 classes in a semester (OTC, Therapeutics, pharmacology, kinetics) and retook them all P3 year, and were able to graduate on time. But I miss one point on a practical, even though I have an A in the class, and have to graduate a year late.

If anyone sees any logic in this system whatsoever, please enlighten me. I'm honestly questioning if it's going to be worth the extra year or not.
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Is the class on a point system or a percentage system?

I know some courses where:

- 900 ~ 1000 points is an A
- 800 ~ 899 points is a B

If you get 899, it's NEVER going to be an A. Is it like that?
 
Would you have to pay for the whole year if you have to retake it? At my school, everything is divided up into two week blocks. If you fail a block and have to sit out a year, you only have to pay for those the two weeks you need to retake and then you return to regular classes a year behind.

What would you do if you decide that it isn't worth it to graduate a year behind?
 
pharmdarling said:
Crazybob,

It is kind of like that. A rule that they feel they must stick to in all circumstances. Even if they count my score on the sterile products lab in my final grade, I would still have an A. However, because there is the rule that you must obtain a 70% on everything, I would still receive either a FAIL or incomplete for the course even though I earned greater than 90%.
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Who is "they"? The professor? If it's the professor, then go to the dean. The dean can do more about it than a professor, because ultimately, the dean has the final say, while the professor is just following the rules to stay employed.
(To put it another way, the professor has his/her hands tied.)
 
Speak to the professor first, which you plan to do, and if the professor will not budge, speak to the dean. Being you're only 1 point from passing, I think they should let you slide and pass or at least allow you to redo the practical to try to pass.

If it turns out you do have to sit out for a year, I would still continue with the program. Tons of people would love to have a spot in pharmacy school so having to sit out for a year isn't so bad considering this is your career.
 
Id arrange a meeting with the dean, bring all of your grades and an explaination as to why you didnt pass that one test. Good luck, btw. Seems impossible to change anything once something has been decidedin Pharmacy School.
 
When you go talk to the dean don't act like you're entitled to anything, be HUMBLE. Too many times I've seen people ruin their chances by expressing how they really feel about a situation. If it seems unfair keep that to yourself. Just blame yourself for everything and kiss some As&.
 
iknow said:
When you go talk to the dean don't act like you're entitled to anything, be HUMBLE. Too many times I've seen people ruin their chances by expressing how they really feel about a situation. If it seems unfair keep that to yourself. Just blame yourself for everything and kiss some As&.
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As sad it is, this is what you have to do. Stay humble and take all the blame while asking for special consideration (for your straight A's and only failing by one point and other stuff). The second you criticize their ridiculously stupid policy to their face is the second they will stop listening to you.
 
iknow said:
When you go talk to the dean don't act like you're entitled to anything, be HUMBLE. Too many times I've seen people ruin their chances by expressing how they really feel about a situation. If it seems unfair keep that to yourself. Just blame yourself for everything and kiss some As&.
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I definitely agree with this. Ask if there is a way you can re-take it or prove that you have the knowledge/ability on that section, so that you aren't just being allowed through with "failing" that section.
 
Rxlea, How did you guess?

I spoke with the instructor who did the grading today. We went through what I did wrong and discussed the standards of this course series. Although she won't give my the point back, she highly recommended that I appeal my grade. I will be submitting my appeal to the course instructor. She has three days to approve or deny it. If she denies it, I am submitting it to the department head. If she denies it, it goes to the Dean. I've talked it out with a few other students, and we have arrived at a pretty good plan of action. The only downside is that according to the appeal policy, my complaint needs to fit into one of three categories that basically places the blame on the professor or evaluator. We have come up with something, and although I have no idea if they will buy it, I am definitely going to give it a try.
 
I am but a matriculating student, but were I placed in that situation, and all avenues of appeal were completely and thoroughly exhausted (Including, if need be, an attorney) then I would pay for the extra year.

What are your options if you don't? Waste all of the time you've spent in pharmacy school and do what... Enroll in a CLS program or something?

You're 3/4 or more of the way to becoming a pharmacist. I just don't see you having any viable, logical option besides continuing, because the loans you've got so far sure won't be disappearing, and I assume you took them out predicated upon the fact that you'd be a pharmacist at the end of the 3 to 4 years (not withstanding PGY1 or 2).

my take on it.
 
Seems like a cash grab to me. That's ridiculous considering how many pharmacists actually make IVs in practice. Is that the way things work at a private pharmacy school.

IrishHammer said:
You should probably go ahead and change that avatar... :meanie:
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I was thinking how is someone a Detroit fan in Arizona but w/e. Even though its the offseason for me, I will still rock my avatar.
 
LOL ok guys- I wagered my avatar on the coyotes and lost. So, I have to keep this stupid avatar up here until it's all over. And yes, the other mods are laughing.
 
rxlea said:
LOL ok guys- I wagered my avatar on the coyotes and lost. So, I have to keep this stupid avatar up here until it's all over. And yes, the other mods are laughing.
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I thought the Yotes were going to surprise people. I was cheering for em, I have a dislike for Detroit. They win too often.
 
The school obivously wants money from you. There will always be someone who needs that one point to pass. This is a unfair situation, and you have every right to protest.
 
Quiksilver said:
I thought the Yotes were going to surprise people. I was cheering for em, I have a dislike for Detroit. They win too often.
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I thought Phoenix was going to be like Columbus last year and just get rolled right out of the postseason. I was surprised to see them take it to Detroit. I've cheered for the Sharks for as long as I've watched hockey, so it's nice to see them finally playing well in the playoffs, even if they're doing it with the help of a player I can't stand in DWI Dany.

I don't really care who wins the Cup (San Jose would be nice since I've followed them for so long, as would Chicago since Pat Kane bringing the Cup out to Chippewa is probably the closest Buffalo's going to come to seeing the Cup for a while), as long as neither Detroit nor Pittsburgh make it to the finals. A third straight year of them in the Stanley Cup Finals makes the NHL look bad. Just imagine the marketing - "Hey everybody, come and watch our product where only two teams are any good and the other 28 suck!"
 
I didn't know there were schools so harsh like this. Most schools want to push you along and help you instead of fail you. Seems like they aren't valuing their students very much.
 
RxMTM said:
I didn't know there were schools so harsh like this. Most schools want to push you along and help you instead of fail you. Seems like they aren't valuing their students very much.
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It seems like most places care about what the majority of students are doing and if most students are doing well, it must be working, right?
 
Don't let your school fail you. Jump on their asses, give them a lawsuit, call the local paper, or whatever else you can think of. Anything you can get is better than sitting through another year and thinking about that one point you missed. I've heard of students threatening law suits and then getting their way after the school shows their white flag.😡
 
This happened to two of my classmates so far. Needed a 70% on the final for a class (where they could be getting 95% in the other sections). Both got a 68. Held back a full year, and had to pay again for the entire year.

It happens, and it sucks. But, rules are rules, unfortunately. If they make an exception to the rule, they should do it for everyone, and in that case, why even have the rule?
 
Im so glad I chose not go to drake!
 
RxMTM said:
Don't let your school fail you. Jump on their asses, give them a lawsuit, call the local paper, or whatever else you can think of. Anything you can get is better than sitting through another year and thinking about that one point you missed. I've heard of students threatening law suits and then getting their way after the school shows their white flag.😡
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If the rule is in the student handbook or syllabus, I really doubt antics like that would be effective. It would be a pretty silly lawsuit when you know about the rule ahead of time. But trying to get re-scored and hoping to get a passing grade would not be getting around the rule. And pleading your case sometimes works, although I do agree with the poster who said why have a rule if you just make exceptions.

I think overall, another year of school is worth it after all of the years and hard work invested.
 
Check if your school has a reassessment policy. My school will allow a retake if a single test/exam caused the student to fail and the student passed all of the other tests/exams in the course.
 
People actually forward a kind of slippery-slope argument? Lame.

It's not like the school is obligated to make an exception for all if it makes an exception for one.
 
Sine Cura said:
People actually forward a kind of slippery-slope argument? Lame.

It's not like the school is obligated to make an exception for all if it makes an exception for one.
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But if it makes an exception for one but doesn't for another, that's not fair. Everyone should be treated equally.
 
Let the student with a 50% pass because we let the student with a 69% pass. I suppose it would also be unfair for the grader to cut the borderline students some slack and round grades up. (Would anyone know or care?) All under the premise that the rules aren't crap to begin with.
 
Just out of curiosity, how big of an error on the practical was it?

For example, did you clean the hood incorrectly or did you make the dilution 10 times too strong or what?
 
what a bunch of bull****


what school is this? i hope you post the name so people know what a terrible setup the program is and avoid it along with hopefully close down.
 
Should we start a "top 10 reasons not to go to Drake" thread?
 
You know what, I go to drake and I am in the OPs class. The OP had two chances to pass the practical and didn't. I feel bad that the OP has to stay back one year, but there are many students who are in the same situation. The school and faculty are great and I don't regret coming to drake. They have it clearly written in the syllabus that to pass the class, 70% is required on each section. The only reason that you can fail other classes (OTC, therapeutics, etc) and retake them P3 year is because what is learned in those classes aren't required to learn materials in therapeutics 2/3. This series that was failed builds on skills learned in the previous classes in the series.
 
you actually have a class dedicated to OTC products?
 
The OP had two chances to pass the practical and didn't. I feel bad that the OP has to stay back one year, but there are many students who are in the same situation.
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If the OP had two chances to pass, I wouldn't expect to be given an exception.

21PharmD said:
you actually have a class dedicated to OTC products?
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My school does too.
 
I thought the OP said he had to pass both. I don't think it's two chances to pass if you have to pass both separately.

To me, two chances = get to take the same test again if you don't pass the first time.
 
crazybob said:
I thought the OP said he had to pass both. I don't think it's two chances to pass if you have to pass both separately.

To me, two chances = get to take the same test again if you don't pass the first time.
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I'm also at Drake and there are several sections you have to pass with a 70%. However, get two chances (on the EXACT same thing) on any and all parts that you do not pass the first time. It's still pretty sheisty, but that's just the way it is...
 
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