What do you think about this?

[bum4life]

Just because it doesn't mention race does NOT mean the implications are not there. And maybe I should have said predjudice instead of racist. It may not have been intentional but like I said the implications are most definitely there.

Interesting point... but you were the first to mention race. You were also the first to prejudge. You're the one that is making assumptions. What makes you think the MD was referring to the person as a certain color?

Race =/= culture

Also, the implications are only there if you're a racist.

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[Dezixn]

Those people are *******s. And judging the entire lower economic class as wholly useless people that should be stripped of their dignity and humanity due to the actions of a few idiots makes you an even bigger *******.

Wow. What's the deal with this guy nerd raging over every response and in tons of threads...
Nowhere has anyone blanketed everyone on medicaid as lazy fat bastards.

 

[type b pharmD]

Wow. What's the deal with this guy nerd raging over every response and in tons of threads...
Nowhere has anyone blanketed everyone on medicaid as lazy fat bastards.

it's all in the tone. and you can see it from the phrases they use

 

[Sugadarlin]

Interesting point... but you were the first to mention race. You were also the first to prejudge. You're the one that is making assumptions. What makes you think the MD was referring to the person as a certain color?

Race =/= culture

Also, the implications are only there if you're a racist.

Did you not see that I said I should have said predjudice instead of racist? And are you kidding me so you have to be a racist to recognize the implications? How about it is very easy for me to see these kinds of implications coming from a social setting where many of the people the doctor described are often judged in a negative way based on appearances. If he wasn't predjudice then he could have left out the remark about the gold tooth, tattoos, and R&B ringtones. And since I am allowed to voice my opinion, I believe that he is describing a person of color, probably a Black person because there are a lot of folks in my family that fit that PHYSICAL description. And with that description you say there is a culture crisis? So now people's visualization of lazy and con artists can be associated with that description. I know a lot of people that would take offense.

Now of course I do not know this anything about this MD, but the question posed by the OP was, what do you think of this and therefore I posted what I thought.

 

[litetigre]

Wow...it is the same old argument I see again and again...Whenever a medicaid reform is initiated, people pull out the race card. It is the fact that the number of whites receive public welfare exceed all other races. They do drugs a lot, too. All societies have bottom feeders, and that is the nature of human race.
The welfare system unintentionally created a new culture of dependence. That is a fact. An example: in New York, the so called "cash for work" incentive encouraged a family to find work and stay working. I believe they received extra cash of hundreds of dollars per month. During the program, a lot of families joined and benefited. Unfortunately, the program could not sustain and had to shut down. It is not that people don't have the ability to get over themselves. There is no motivation for them to do so.

 

[Dezixn]

Did you not see that I said I should have said predjudice instead of racist? And are you kidding me so you have to be a racist to recognize the implications? How about it is very easy for me to see these kinds of implications coming from a social setting where many of the people the doctor described are often judged in a negative way based on appearances. If he wasn't predjudice then he could have left out the remark about the gold tooth, tattoos, and R&B ringtones. And since I am allowed to voice my opinion, I believe that he is describing a person of color, probably a Black person because there are a lot of folks in my family that fit that PHYSICAL description. And with that description you say there is a culture crisis? So now people's visualization of lazy and con artists can be associated with that description. I know a lot of people that would take offense.

Now of course I do not know this anything about this MD, but the question posed by the OP was, what do you think of this and therefore I posted what I thought.

It sounded to me like he was describing things of excess rather than things that some black people do/have. Expensive phone, excessive tattoos (also expensive), custom ringtones (usually cost money), gold tooth (gold is pretty expensive).
Just because those are the characteristics of some black people doesn't mean he was ragging on black people. Those descriptions also fit some hispanics, and even some white people.
The author seemed to hate the person more than a race, since no race was mentioned, and, as said above, such characteristics describe multiple races.

 

[Sugadarlin]

Wow...it is the same old argument I see again and again...Whenever a medicaid reform is initiated, people pull out the race card. It is the fact that the number of whites receive public welfare exceed all other races. They do drugs a lot, too. All societies have bottom feeders, and that is the nature of human race.
The welfare system unintentionally created a new culture of dependence. That is a fact. An example: in New York, the so called "cash for work" incentive encouraged a family to find work and stay working. I believe they received extra cash of hundreds of dollars per month. During the program, a lot of families joined and benefited. Unfortunately, the program could not sustain and had to shut down. It is not that people don't have the ability to get over themselves. There is no motivation for them to do so.

Who played the race card? I'm pretty sure that the race card is played when you are trying to obtain an advantage or justify some sort of action.

Anywho, I know that most of what you said is absolutely true and I agree with your post which is why I was mildly offended at the way this person was described because it implies a specific race. Of course I know it could have been any race but why bring up the characteristics that are overwhelmingly associated with one maybe two groups of people?

 

[Sugadarlin]

It sounded to me like he was describing things of excess rather than things that some black people do/have. Expensive phone, excessive tattoos (also expensive), custom ringtones (usually cost money), gold tooth (gold is pretty expensive).
Just because those are the characteristics of some black people doesn't mean he was ragging on black people. Those descriptions also fit some hispanics, and even some white people.
The author seemed to hate the person more than a race, since no race was mentioned, and, as said above, such characteristics describe multiple races.

I think it is great that that's the way you interpreted it and of course that's all we can do is read it and come to our own conclusion of what this letter meant. So I am just showing you how someone else (me) could have taken this letter. I have been known to be overly sensitive at times about race and class issues so I do admit I usually think the worst.

 

[iknow]

How often do you see this in your practice of pharmacy? Curious to hear your stories, if any...



Below is a young physician by the name of Dr. Starner Jones. His short two-paragraph letter to the White House puts the blame on a "Culture Crisis" instead of a "Health Care Crisis".

Dear Mr. President:
During my shift in the Emergency Room last night, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient whose smile revealed an expensive shiny gold tooth, whose body was adorned with a wide assortment of elaborate and costly tattoos, who wore a very expensive brand of tennis shoes and who chatted on a new cellular telephone equipped with a popular R&B ringtone.


While glancing over her patient chart, I happened to notice that her payer status was listed as "Medicaid"! During my examination of her, the patient informed me that she smokes more than one costly pack of cigarettes every day and somehow still has money to buy pretzels and beer.



And, you and our Congress expect me to pay for this woman's health care? I contend that our nation's "health care crisis" is not the result of a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. Rather, it is the result of a "crisis of culture", a culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on luxuries and vices while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven forbid, purchase health insurance. It is a culture based in the irresponsible credo that "I can do whatever I want to because someone else will always take care of me".



Once you fix this "culture crisis" that rewards irresponsibility and dependency, you'll be amazed at how quickly our nation's health care difficulties will disappear.



Respectfully,
STARNER JONES, MD

Why did you delete the link to your website? Not getting the responses (support) you expected?
I don't think it's our place to judge our patients. We are here to provide care and what they do with their personal life is not our business.

 

[bum4life]

Did you not see that I said I should have said predjudice instead of racist? And are you kidding me so you have to be a racist to recognize the implications? How about it is very easy for me to see these kinds of implications coming from a social setting where many of the people the doctor described are often judged in a negative way based on appearances. If he wasn't predjudice then he could have left out the remark about the gold tooth, tattoos, and R&B ringtones. And since I am allowed to voice my opinion, I believe that he is describing a person of color, probably a Black person because there are a lot of folks in my family that fit that PHYSICAL description. And with that description you say there is a culture crisis? So now people's visualization of lazy and con artists can be associated with that description. I know a lot of people that would take offense.

Now of course I do not know this anything about this MD, but the question posed by the OP was, what do you think of this and therefore I posted what I thought.

My head is full of ****. I don't even know where to begin.

Issue 1) I don't think you understand the idea of prejudice. The MD made an argument about money and healthcare. He described how someone can spend money on a gold tooth, yet use government money for healthcare. I still fail to see the prejudice in the prompt.



Issue 2) The definition of racist/racism: "Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#cite_note-M-W-0" - Wiki


I should have clarified when I said, "the implications are only there if you're a racist."

This is what you did: you read the article, came across gold tooth, tattoos, expensive shoes, and R&B ringtone, then you set your mind to = black.

If Billybob from the sticks read the article and came across gold tooth, tattoos, expensive shoes, and R&B ringtone, then set his mind to "that person must be black." Who's the racist?

Answer: you and Billybob.

The MD was addressing a discrepancy between monetary priorities. You were the one that assumed the MD was referring to a black person. You were the one that associated that ****ty behavior with black people (hence, the racism).

You're obviously allowed to voice your opinion. I was trying to comment on your analytical ability, which clearly was based on emotion. I wasn't trying to troll you, but people need to let go of this idea of race. People are people. Culture is where the problem lies.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Wow. What's the deal with this guy nerd raging over every response and in tons of threads...

Because I was born poor and this **** pisses me off. And wtf does nerd rage mean? And I post in tons of threads because I like SDN...and I have no life.

Nowhere has anyone blanketed everyone on medicaid as lazy fat bastards.

The dude that wrote the letter in the OP did. He claimed that there is a "culture" of laziness. This implies that its not just an isolated problem with a few people.

 

[Sugadarlin]

My head is full of ****. I don't even know where to begin.

Issue 1) I don't think you understand the idea of prejudice. The MD made an argument about money and healthcare. He described how someone can spend money on a gold tooth, yet use government money for healthcare. I still fail to see the prejudice in the prompt.



Issue 2) The definition of racist/racism: "Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race." - Wiki


I should have clarified when I said, "the implications are only there if you're a racist."

This is what you did: you read the article, came across gold tooth, tattoos, expensive shoes, and R&B ringtone, then you set your mind to = black.

If Billybob from the sticks read the article and came across gold tooth, tattoos, expensive shoes, and R&B ringtone, then set his mind to "that person must be black." Who's the racist?

Answer: you and Billybob.

The MD was addressing a discrepancy between monetary priorities. You were the one that assumed the MD was referring to a black person. You were the one that associated that ****ty behavior with black people (hence, the racism).

You're obviously allowed to voice your opinion. I was trying to comment on your analytical ability, which clearly was based on emotion. I wasn't trying to troll you, but people need to let go of this idea of race. People are people. Culture is where the problem lies.

I disagree with you, if a person can deduct Black from that description that doesn't make them racist (me or Billy Bob). That's a person making an assumption off of sterotypes which I will admit to. But reading into sterotypes (some of which are true) does not imply that you feel a certain way towards the race.

And I did not associate that person's behavior with Black people I associated the physical descriptions (gold tooth, tats, R&B ringtone) but definitely NOT the actions. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts before you go and comment on my analytical ability. I will admit emotions were involved but that does not mean I did not have any valid points just because I interpreted it different than you or others may have.

And in a perfect world where there is no discrimination and biases based I would agree with you that people are just people. But we live in America and the ugly truth is that in a lot of situations race matters and therefore I will not and can not let that race idea go. I do pray for your perfect world to come soon.

 

[SZ251]

I don't think it's our place to judge our patients. We are here to provide care and what they do with their personal life is not our business.

We should not judge out patients in a capacity that it would affect the care we provide them. However, being completely blind to what we see and completely ignoring all observations is not the answer either. I hate it when people/professors try to re-enforce the notion that because we are professionals, we must be above making these observations about people.

I've been pleasantly impressed by a few MD's and preceptors who have encouraged the use of this to their advantage as they treat the patient (and hence, also to the patients advantage)…

You would obviously be more inclined to screen for diabetes in an older, African American patient (than say, a young Asian child) because these factors are associated with a higher risk for diabetes. However, a keen observer might use Medicaid to deduce a lower economic class, which has been linked to worse diet, and thus higher incidences of diabetes. I'm not advocating using rash generalizations, but just making the point that in certain situations, making these "judgments" can help both the patient and practitioner achieve the best possible outcome.

Lastly, we are all human, and thus entitled to our opinions insofar that it doesn’t effect the way we treat patients.

**Before I get 1,000 hate-replies, I am in no way endorsing racism, sexism, ect or any type of discrimination**

 

[rxlea]

we should not judge out patients in a capacity that it would affect the care we provide them. However, being completely blind to what we see and completely ignoring all observations is not the answer either. I hate it when people/professors try to re-enforce the notion that because we are professionals, we must be above making these observations about people.

I've been pleasantly impressed by a few md's and preceptors who have encouraged the use of this to their advantage as they treat the patient (and hence, also to the patients advantage)…

you would obviously be more inclined to screen for diabetes in an older, african american patient (than say, a young asian child) because these factors are associated with a higher risk for diabetes. However, a keen observer might use medicaid to deduce a lower economic class, which has been linked to worse diet, and thus higher incidences of diabetes. I'm not advocating using rash generalizations, but just making the point that in certain situations, making these "judgments" can help both the patient and practitioner achieve the best possible outcome.

Lastly, we are all human, and thus entitled to our opinions insofar that it doesn’t effect the way we treat patients.

**before i get 1,000 hate-replies, i am in no way endorsing racism, sexism, ect or any type of discrimination**

+1

 

[Sugadarlin]

We should not judge out patients in a capacity that it would affect the care we provide them. However, being completely blind to what we see and completely ignoring all observations is not the answer either. I hate it when people/professors try to re-enforce the notion that because we are professionals, we must be above making these observations about people.

I've been pleasantly impressed by a few MD's and preceptors who have encouraged the use of this to their advantage as they treat the patient (and hence, also to the patients advantage)…

You would obviously be more inclined to screen for diabetes in an older, African American patient (than say, a young Asian child) because these factors are associated with a higher risk for diabetes. However, a keen observer might use Medicaid to deduce a lower economic class, which has been linked to worse diet, and thus higher incidences of diabetes. I'm not advocating using rash generalizations, but just making the point that in certain situations, making these "judgments" can help both the patient and practitioner achieve the best possible outcome.

Lastly, we are all human, and thus entitled to our opinions insofar that it doesn’t effect the way we treat patients.

**Before I get 1,000 hate-replies, I am in no way endorsing racism, sexism, ect or any type of discrimination**

I can definitely appreciate this post, well put

 

[pearljam5a1]

...Or driving through the Rx drive thru in an Escalade and refusing to pay a 1 dollar copay for their child's cough medicine. No doubt some people need it. But there sure are a lot of capable people that would rather sell their percocet than get a job.

I had a similar experience working at a non-profit agency that had a food bank. A lady came in saying she needed food for her and her kids so I directed her to the social worker in charge of the food bank. She packed up 3 - 4 grocery bags full of food for her and I helped carry them downstairs to her car. I then proceeded to put these bags in the back of a brand new Escalade. It only takes one person abusing the system to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[SZ251]

I can definitely appreciate this post, well put

Thank you. I was fully expecting to experience the SDN version of an angry mob when I logged in today. It seems constructive criticism and/or good omen are are becoming less and less common around here these days.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I don't see what it really has to do with the orginal post though

 

[Iseebigppl]

I think people need to take care of each other without regard to the choices they are making in life.

This is a joke, right?