What do you think will happen with pharmacy as a profession?

[IndustryPharmD]

I agree with WVUPharm2007. I am calling BS on this post too. Tell me what your retail friends have done to make them so valuable they would be the last to be fired.

- became the compounding expert so their location contracts with local rehab facility to provide medications for their residents
- created a relationship with the local pediatricians to become go-to pharmacy in the surrounding area for pediatric medications, compounded as well as run-of-the-mill, increasing business significantly
- provide immunizations both to patients directly, as well as provide vaccines to the doctors' offices in the area, drawing additional business
- create a diabetes management program that they operate out of their location, in collaboration with local physicians

If you are employed by a chain, it doesn't always mean you are braindead (though the majority are close to it, yes). If you have an idea and you are willing to work with it, it's more likely than not that you will get it up and running.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rebel78]

In the end, just do what makes you happy. If your miserable in your job (as some here seem to be), just man up and quit and do something else. Whether it's a "niche" job, a high pressure management position, or grinding in retail, if you enjoy it, then the rest doesn't matter. No sense in hating your job. Once I made my WAG money and paid most everything off, I quit and went to work at a community hospital, and I enjoy going to work. I'm content, I don't have to supervise anybody. I go in, do my thing, and go home, and I'm happy as a clam.

Life is too short to hate something you do for 8-12 hours a day.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

And in pharmacy, you can't just wake up and say "I'll go out and carve myself a niche today." The world doesn't work like that. If it did, I'd have one by now. I'd love to have a niche, but, again, in the REAL WORLD, someone has to GIVE YOU an opportunity out of school to develop a specialized skill.

No, but you wake up and you plan where you want to be, and then you plan the way to get there - and then you get there. I started in the second year of pharmacy school, and I had to call and write and convince people and work to set up internships that I really wanted that were not offered through my school, or indeed anywhere close to the State where I went to school. And then I got the fellowship I really wanted, part of it was luck, part of it was that I really was better than other candidates applying that year. I have seen presentations that fellowship seekers in subsequent years did - half of them didn't have any analysis to speak of, just regurgitation of the information they were provided with. And then I worked hard (though to clarify, when I say "work hard" it means working hard AND working smart) to show myself and got a job that I wasn't eligible for, really, but they taylored the job requirements so they could retain me. There was luck, sure, but it would not have helped me much had I been a generic pharmacist drone.

Not to underestimate importance of luck, but it's highly likely to get lucky if you are actually doing something to help yourself rather than sitting on your ass waiting for the magical stroke of fortune. Yeah, some people win the lottery - but most people I know who have careers they enjoy and make good money got there because of a lot more than luck. People miss a lot more opportunities than they realize... luck is the opportunities that fall your way, whether you have the brain enough to notice them and what you do with the opportunities you do find - it's all up to you.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

No it's not. Nothing good is gained without hard work yet hard work is not the only ingredient of success in pharmacy. Luck is involved of course. Yet, luck tends to follow people who take chances and do things beyond what the masses do.

Hard work is necessary. But you also have to work smart and have enough foresight to plan a path to success.

Nobody gives anything to anyone. You have to earn it. Do things others don't want to. Go places where no wants to. Work at places no one wants to. Once you have enough experience, then more opportunities open up to find a niche. Yes you can go out and carve out a niche...I see it being done everyday and I've done it many times. But only because I was willing to take chances and move across country at a lower salary at places no one wanted to work when everyone was out getting signon bonuses at their cushy suburban neighborhoods.

Yup.

And to join, yes, I have been helping others find their niches, both by running the industry thread on these boards and meeting with interns and fellows who have passed through my workplaces. Though if people just want to take an easy way out and work for a chain - that's fine with me too. People should do what they want... and plenty of people are happy just coasting along and finding fulfillment in areas of life other than career. It's just they should be the ones also complaining about their lack of a career.

If I do occasionally (well, more than occasionally) sound snarky on the boards, it's because I am allergic to entitled people, who think everything they want should fall in their lap with little to no effort on their part. And I am also allergic to people who blame everyone and everything in the world for what's happening to them, but never themselves. Most of what is going to happen to you in life, freak accidents or freak strokes of luck aside, is a result of your choices, be they conscious or not. And if more people realized that, world would be a much more pleasant place to live. With fewer lawsuits, fewer helicopter parents, fewer entitled Medicaid patients... ah, it's nice to dream on sometimes.

To paraphrase the Shark (Finding Nemo), not all fish are friends, some ARE merely food. Same with people. Some are people. Some are merely a human resource. Though it is a highly unpopular point of view in today's America where it's fashionable to believe that everyone deserves the best, no matter who or what they may be.

 

[StriveForGlory]

I knew, but I did start working in an independent pharmacy when I was 16. And I worked my *** off to get into the pharmacy school (a 2+4 program). I know many people who didn't work hard enough or couldn't handle taking all of the prerequisites in two years so they didn't get in. I think taking the prerequisites over two years is tougher than getting many BS degrees. You can space out the sciences and the general ed classes over four years instead. Taking them over such a short period helped prepare my class for the amount of time-intensive courses in pharmacy school.

Requiring a bachelor's degree doesn't necessarily improve the candidates, but it might increase the amount of debt when you graduate. It would only make people who want to be pharmacists take an extra two years of school. They'll still go to pharmacy school if it is what they really want. If you know you really want to be a pharmacist at 17, you'll work hard enough to get there.

Absolutely Agree. I hate how people are quit to point the finger at 6 year programs and say that they should be eliminated. Maybe it would help solve the problem of too many graduates. But it sure as hell does not have anything to do with the quality of pharmacists that are leaving these 6 year programs. I have been working in a hospital pharmacy since high school and I busted my ass to get into Rutgers and now I am busting my ass while in Rutgers to get where I want to be. I know I want to do a residency. I know I want to do clinical work. And I am sure as hell going to try as hard as I can to get there. Dont give me any crap about how a person who did two extra years than me is so much more entitled to become a pharmacist when I know that I am just as smart, if not smarter, than anyone who takes 8 years to become a pharmacist.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Mmmm...then I'll pull the BS card on your luck mantra again. You do this with sports too...the world doesn't conspire against us with some pre-planned vengeance. Luck is all about taking calculated risk.

You say you'd have your niche carved out if determination and hard work paid off? What exactly have you tried yet? Trust me... if you're waiting for something to fall into your lap and someone to "give" you something, you're going to be sitting around that wooden house for a looong time.

Mike...I want to see you really succeed in our profession, but you're going to have to take chances not everyone is willing to take. Heck, I haven't been doing this much longer than you...and I'm definitely not going to pretend that I have. But I knew what I wanted to specialize in, I moved out to a city where I didn't know a single person within 200 miles...then I showed'em where relentless hard work and ambition can get you. I realized fast that no job is "below" anyone, the duties no one wants to do are the ones where you learn the most...and once you learn how the entire pharmacy operation works, you can start to manage it better than anyone did before.

But keep playing the woe is me card, and no one is going to give you a chance!

Oh, ****in blow me. All 3 of you with your bull**** pull yourself up with your bootstraps mantra. You:

1) Got out when there were jobs. They used to recruit us. Ain't like that anymore. New grads and people without in state licenses aren't even considered anymore due to every job getting tons of applications.

2) Aren't married to a pharmacist, thus requiring a job in a populated area...of which there aren't any right now.


You're going to criticize me for "not trying anything?" You are aware that I've been stuck in one town that is utterly saturated due to geography because of life circumstances, right? I couldn't just get up and move to Texas last year. I couldn't just get up and go do a residency. For someone like me to just magically "get a niche" isn't going to happen because the current environment isn't conducive towards it. It is what it is. Life happens, life isn't fair. I'm not saying "woe is me", I'm saying that's it's easy to sit there with what you've done in an easier situation and criticize these younger pharmacists for not being able to find success in a much harsher environment. And to imply that a student should just go out there and carve their own niche like its as easy as hard OR smart work like it might have been a few years ago is total bull****. There is no "calculated risk" available for me to take right now. Nor most pharmacy graduates, to be honest. Hell, I have to get a job first...after my wife is done with rotations. And I actually have a "niche carver" of job interview coming up this week where I might be in a hospital working autonomously with one other pharmacist doing specialized work. The first real interview I've gotten from submitting dozens and dozens of applications and making dozens and dozens of phone calls.

 

[PharmaTope]

Oh, ****in blow me. All 3 of you with your bull**** pull yourself up with your bootstraps mantra. You:

1) Got out when there were jobs. They used to recruit us. Ain't like that anymore. New grads and people without in state licenses aren't even considered anymore due to every job getting tons of applications.

2) Aren't married to a pharmacist, thus requiring a job in a populated area...of which there aren't any right now.


You're going to criticize me for "not trying anything?" You are aware that I've been stuck in one town that is utterly saturated due to geography because of life circumstances, right? I couldn't just get up and move to Texas last year. I couldn't just get up and go do a residency. For someone like me to just magically "get a niche" isn't going to happen because the current environment isn't conducive towards it. It is what it is. Life happens, life isn't fair. I'm not saying "woe is me", I'm saying that's it's easy to sit there with what you've done in an easier situation and criticize these younger pharmacists for not being able to find success in a much harsher environment. And to imply that a student should just go out there and carve their own niche like its as easy as hard OR smart work like it might have been a few years ago is total bull****. There is no "calculated risk" available for me to take right now. Nor most pharmacy graduates, to be honest. Hell, I have to get a job first...after my wife is done with rotations. And I actually have a "niche carver" of job interview coming up this week where I might be in a hospital working autonomously with one other pharmacist doing specialized work. The first real interview I've gotten from submitting dozens and dozens of applications and making dozens and dozens of phone calls.

it is very easy for people to say you need to find a niche than to live in your reality. this is the situation people. there are not easy to obtain jobs out there. if you are single and can relocate to east bum**** idaho then you are ok. however, nobody is really like that. the current climate for pharmacy is NOT good at all.

werent you working hospital?

truth is there is nothing out there and people are reluctant to hire you unless you know someone else.

hospitals will not authorize new hire positions because of the economy as well in pharmacy.

 

[Its Z]

Oh, ****in blow me. All 3 of you with your bull**** pull yourself up with your bootstraps mantra. You:

1) Got out when there were jobs. They used to recruit us. Ain't like that anymore. New grads and people without in state licenses aren't even considered anymore due to every job getting tons of applications.

No, I got out when there were no jobs. I moved 1,500 miles across country to a very undesirable southern town, once voted the most violent town in the US to work at a 450 bed county hospital in the evening. 2 pharmacists took care of 400 patients while filling outpatient scripts.. sound familiar?

2) Aren't married to a pharmacist, thus requiring a job in a populated area...of which there aren't any right now.

No..but married to an account. She quit her cushy accountant job in Orange County, CA to move with me.

You're going to criticize me for "not trying anything?" You are aware that I've been stuck in one town that is utterly saturated due to geography because of life circumstances, right? I couldn't just get up and move to Texas last year. I couldn't just get up and go do a residency. For someone like me to just magically "get a niche" isn't going to happen because the current environment isn't conducive towards it. It is what it is. Life happens, life isn't fair. I'm not saying "woe is me", I'm saying that's it's easy to sit there with what you've done in an easier situation and criticize these younger pharmacists for not being able to find success in a much harsher environment. And to imply that a student should just go out there and carve their own niche like its as easy as hard OR smart work like it might have been a few years ago is total bull****. There is no "calculated risk" available for me to take right now. Nor most pharmacy graduates, to be honest. Hell, I have to get a job first...after my wife is done with rotations. And I actually have a "niche carver" of job interview coming up this week where I might be in a hospital working autonomously with one other pharmacist doing specialized work. The first real interview I've gotten from submitting dozens and dozens of applications and making dozens and dozens of phone calls.

You mentioned D&B as the minimum requirement. Many times you mentioned you didn't want to live in a small town. You also mentioned your wife doesn't like hot weather. Your lifestyle criteria puts you in places where there are no jobs. There are remote towns with jobs but you're not looking there nor licensed.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

No, I got out when there were no jobs. I moved 1,500 miles across country to a very undesirable southern town, once voted the most violent town in the US to work at a 450 bed county hospital in the evening. 2 pharmacists took care of 400 patients while filling outpatient scripts.. sound familiar?

lmao. You've also had a careers worth of time. Let's see what I do when I actually get an opportunity to settle down.

You mentioned D&B as the minimum requirement. Many times you mentioned you didn't want to live in a small town. You also mentioned your wife doesn't like hot weather. Your lifestyle criteria puts you in places where there are no jobs. There are remote towns with jobs but you're not looking there nor licensed.

The D&B thing is more like a running joke. I'd consider, say, Oregon where there is no D&B. I've submitted apps in D&B-less areas. Like Dayton, OH. Or Toledo OH. Or Louisville. It's not that I refuse to live in a small town, its that a small town has inherently less job opportunities. Thus getting work for *2* pharmacists would take some doing. And the heat thing with my wife is more of a MEDICAL thing than a PREFERENCE thing. She faints in high temperatures. She has thyroid issues and issues with body heat regulation. Is what it is. Life ain't fair...blah blah blah. The rust belt is just as in demand as down South, anyway. On paper, at least.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

Oh, ****in blow me. All 3 of you with your bull**** pull yourself up with your bootstraps mantra.

OK, you had your rant. Now give me three good reasons as to why you deserve the jobs that exist out there, other than the fact that you need a job because you have bills to pay. So do hundreds of other pharmacists. What makes you better than them? If nothing, then where is the injustice in this situation?

Pharmacy was a bubble, like real estate was a bubble. (Almost) everyone thought they were going to get fifteen offers and huge sign-on bonuses. The bubble burst. Pharmacy is still better than most degrees out there. How do you think people who graduate with, say, accounting degrees find jobs? There are thousands of graduates each year, and some get nice jobs, some end up flipping burgers. And it's usually not due to random chance. Why do you believe pharmacists should not compete for jobs, when most people do? Because people who graduated four-five years before you did not? Sorry, that's not logic, that's entitlement. Or, in your words, bull****. Yes, they lucked out. Life isn't fair. Accept it and find a way around it. Or bemoan it, though I personally don't find whining constructive - but what do I know, maybe you can make constructive?

So far in this entire thread I haven't heard one good answer as to why all graduating pharmacists should have several offers before graduation. Maybe there are reasons, and I am not smart enough to see them. Then do enlighten me.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

OK, you had your rant. Now give me three good reasons as to why you deserve the jobs that exist out there, other than the fact that you need a job because you have bills to pay. So do hundreds of other pharmacists. What makes you better than them? If nothing, then where is the injustice in this situation?

Pharmacy was a bubble, like real estate was a bubble. (Almost) everyone thought they were going to get fifteen offers and huge sign-on bonuses. The bubble burst. Pharmacy is still better than most degrees out there. How do you think people who graduate with, say, accounting degrees find jobs? There are thousands of graduates each year, and some get nice jobs, some end up flipping burgers. And it's usually not due to random chance. Why do you believe pharmacists should not compete for jobs, when most people do? Because people who graduated four-five years before you did not? Sorry, that's not logic, that's entitlement. Or, in your words, bull****. Yes, they lucked out. Life isn't fair. Accept it and find a way around it. Or bemoan it, though I personally don't find whining constructive - but what do I know, maybe you can make constructive?

So far in this entire thread I haven't heard one good answer as to why all graduating pharmacists should have several offers before graduation? Maybe there are reasons, and I am not smart enough to see them. Then do enlighten me.

Jesus hopscotching christ. Do you people read anything?

Earlier I typed:

It is what it is. Life happens, life isn't fair.

So thanks for your pointless Dr Phil meets Ronald Reagan wannabe bull**** that is an expanded version of what my entire point is.

What I am saying is that, yes, life isn't fair...and within the confines of said unfairness, new grads are going to have trouble carving out a niche in this industry. I take exception to this idea you people are floating around that through hard work or whatever complete bull**** you are throwing out, anything is possible. It isn't. In this current environment, a new grad needs luck and connections MUCH, MUCH moreso than hard work and cunning to "get what they want." They are clean-slate coming out of school. Nothing to really market.

Ok, let that digest for a second.

My life situation made everything screwy and I realize that...I'll work around it...but I'm not really even talking about me like ya'll seem to think, anyway...you just assume I am...I'm talking about new grads...especially in the future...and the hostile environment they are about to encounter...

You can sit there on your high horse and blather about how awesome you are, but don't get down on new practitioners that won't even have a chance available to them to specialize. It's complete bull****.

 

[gotdrugs]

You can sit there on your high horse and blather about how awesome you are, but don't get down on new practitioners that won't even have a chance available to them to specialize. It's complete bull****.

This is the take-home point for WVU's posts.

He hasn't been b1tching and moaning for himself, in fact I've read in one post that he isn't real worried for himself as he's the type to fall azz-backward into something.

What he's saying regarding the challenges future graduates will face is dead-on IMO.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

They are clean-slate coming out of school. Nothing to really market.

Good candidates are not. You have four years of pharmacy school, why not use them for something in addition to studying and/or partying so you are NOT a clean slate coming out? All pharmacy students are not created equal. Same as all people are not created equal.

And, to spell out the key difference between your post and mine, you believe that it doesn't matter how good or how bad you are (a hypothetical you here, and that's my impression of your posts, which may or may not be what you intended - have I chewed this out enough?) it's all down to luck. While I believe that you can do a great deal to boost your chances.

My life situation made everything screwy and I realize that...I'll work around it...but I'm not really even talking about me like ya'll seem to think, anyway...you just assume I am...I'm talking about new grads...especially in the future...and the hostile environment they are about to encounter...

I couldn't care less for you and your life situation. All the "you"s in my post above other than first paragraph (which you didn't deign to answer anyway), are purely hypotethical.

new practitioners that won't even have a chance available to them to specialize.

Not any single one of them? And all the residencies, fellowships, and entry-level jobs which are not hospital or retail staff, are going to magically disappear? Now that's an apocalyptical scenario, and not a very realistic one. Or are you talking about yourself again?

Let me repeat, clearly stating that this is a general statement for the thread and not a personal question for you:
Why is there a common belief that all graduating pharmacists should have an easy time finding a job?


And to expand on it, why should ACPE artifically create the shortage and thus keep non-competitive graduates in the job market, as has been proposed above?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Why is there a common belief that all graduating pharmacists should have an easy time finding a job?

And the common answer is, because its been like that since they've known about the pharmacy profession and its why they entered the profession. Again, the life fairness thing.

And to expand on it, why should ACPE artifically create the shortage and thus keep non-competitive graduates in the job market, as has been proposed above?

Because too many idiots will become pharmacists. I'm quite serious about this. Some of the kids I've seen from a few of these newer schools with lesser candidates getting accepted...yikes. Something needs done. Plus, we control the profession via boards and academic institutions. Why the hell shouldn't we try to keep the market in our favor?

 

[GamecockPharmD]

As a new graduate, the opportunities that were there even 3 years ago are not there now. Gonna digress a little. I'm not going to lie, I went into pharmacy for the money. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my hand. My dad was laid off and out of work for 3 years from a good job. I'm driving a 20 year old car. I've got $120,000 worth of student loans. I busted my ass doing lawn care for 10 years and worked at a pharmacy at the same time for 4 of those years. I went into pharmacy for the salary and the job security. I've been trying to help my family out as well money-wise. As I got further in my program, I got more interested in the clinical side. I graduated cum laude and I could have been very competitive for residency, but I'm burnt out. I feel a lot older than I really am. Either way, due to life circumstances, I decided not to do a residency. So I'm going to be a retail drone after I take the NAPLEX/MPJE in July. I'm not saying these things to get any sympathy. Just not everyone who goes into retail is a lazy idiot. I know very few people that have worked harder than me. I interviewed with all the major chains and put my resume out there and I heard back from 1 company, the same one I've worked for the past 3 years. People are simply not hiring unless you've already got your foot in the door. Basically, I agree with everyone calling bull**** on all this "hard work" talk. No matter how hard you work, sometimes you just can't get ahead and you have to take what you can get job wise. A lot of smart people go into retail that might have gotten more prestigious jobs if it weren't for other circumstances. Just because I'll never get to flaunt 50 credentials beside my name like some douchebags I know do, it doesn't make me lazier or any less of a pharmacist. Who has time to carve a niche if the company you work for has cut your tech hours so much you really have to bust ass? And staying later or coming in earlier? Please, that's not realistic when you work 12 hour shifts with no overlap and maybe time for a 30 minute break. Right now at least, in the short term, people are going to have trouble finding jobs. I don't think that the sky is falling quite yet. Or at least I hope that's the case. I think pharmacy will still be a great profession to go into with the aging population and the pharmacists that will be retiring soon. Even so, I think everyone just entering the profession as pharmacists is going to be in for a rough stretch for the next 5 years or so. And those pharmacists that have jobs right now better not be too adventurous in "creating a niche" in this economic climate. Just be grateful to have a job and hang on to it the best you can.

 

[Its Z]

As a new graduate, the opportunities that were there even 3 years ago are not there now. Gonna digress a little. I'm not going to lie, I went into pharmacy for the money. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my hand. My dad was laid off and out of work for 3 years from a good job. I'm driving a 20 year old car. I've got $120,000 worth of student loans. I busted my ass doing lawn care for 10 years and worked at a pharmacy at the same time for 4 of those years. I went into pharmacy for the salary and the job security. I've been trying to help my family out as well money-wise. As I got further in my program, I got more interested in the clinical side. I graduated cum laude and I could have been very competitive for residency, but I'm burnt out. I feel a lot older than I really am. Either way, due to life circumstances, I decided not to do a residency. So I'm going to be a retail drone after I take the NAPLEX/MPJE in July. I'm not saying these things to get any sympathy. Just not everyone who goes into retail is a lazy idiot. I know very few people that have worked harder than me. I interviewed with all the major chains and put my resume out there and I heard back from 1 company, the same one I've worked for the past 3 years. People are simply not hiring unless you've already got your foot in the door. Basically, I agree with everyone calling bull**** on all this "hard work" talk. No matter how hard you work, sometimes you just can't get ahead and you have to take what you can get job wise. A lot of smart people go into retail that might have gotten more prestigious jobs if it weren't for other circumstances. Just because I'll never get to flaunt 50 credentials beside my name like some douchebags I know do, it doesn't make me lazier or any less of a pharmacist. Who has time to carve a niche if the company you work for has cut your tech hours so much you really have to bust ass? And staying later or coming in earlier? Please, that's not realistic when you work 12 hour shifts with no overlap and maybe time for a 30 minute break. Right now at least, in the short term, people are going to have trouble finding jobs. I don't think that the sky is falling quite yet. Or at least I hope that's the case. I think pharmacy will still be a great profession to go into with the aging population and the pharmacists that will be retiring soon. Even so, I think everyone just entering the profession as pharmacists is going to be in for a rough stretch for the next 5 years or so. And those pharmacists that have jobs right now better not be too adventurous in "creating a niche" in this economic climate. Just be grateful to have a job and hang on to it the best you can.

We're not faulting you for not doing a residency or going into retail. But at the same time, some of those who opted for residency and further educate themselves will have more opportunities to find a niche than someone going straight into retail out of pharmacy school.

These are your life decisions and ultimately where you end up in pharmacy career will be based on the decisions you make. You can become like Dr. M and learn the necessary skills to open your own successful independent pharmacy. Or you'll become a retail pharmacist wanting to get out of retail. Who knows.

If your niche is chain retail, then it's what it is. Guess what though...you'll have a lot of competition as more than 50% of pharmacy graduates will be wanting your job. However, those who take the residency and fellowship route, they'll be able to carve out a nice niche with less competition.. ID and ED pharmacists won't be competing for a job against 50%+ pharmacy graduates.

I was hiring an ID pharmacist 3 years ago... I probably received about 20 resumes. But only 2 candidates have completed an ID fellowship. And one of the ID pharmacist actually turned me down.. so I hired the other one.

This is what we're talking about when we say niche. It's acquiring expertise others don't have.

There are reasons and excuses why people do what they do. But the bottom line is... people are where they want to be. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there.

 

[GamecockPharmD]

I might catch some flak for this but in my opinion I think a residency for pharmacist equates to slave labor. I've worked with clinical pharmacists with the old BS degree that never did a residency and are very good at what they do. I know experience counts for something, but I feel as a fresh graduate my clinical skills are pretty sharp and I could do a lot of the jobs clinical pharmacist do. Not to sound arrogant or anything. I just think residency is another unnecessary hoop to jump through. Not too long ago it wasn't necessary to do residency to to get a clinical position. But you are right, people are where they want to be because they do the work and put themselves there. But for some it just isn't realistic. Obviously the ID pharmacist you hired did the ID fellowship. But how many ID pharmacists does a hospital really need? I think pretty soon there will be ID pharmacists and other specialist pharmacist that end up either staffing in a hospital or even working retail just because of the economic climate. A job is better than no job. Since I've kissed the residency thing goodbye, I've actually been thinking of pursuing another degree in a few years. UF/Stetson University offer a dual MBA/MS degree for 3 years of part time work. I think the main target of the program is for PharmDs but people in unrelated fields pursue it too. Maybe that will open up more opportunities for me but I have to get my life in order first. I would actually like to have a life too. I might have gone on 2 dates this past year.

 

[Its Z]

My goal isn't to boast. But let me tell you about my experience and how I got to where I am.

During school, I interned at a pediatric hospital. During summers, I asked for projects and started a weekly intern lecture series...we prepared our presentation on our own time. Then we presented it to the house staff. Another summer, I volunteered to do the pharmacy preparation for the Joint Commission. A lot of work and education were done on my own time.

As a staff evening pharmacist, I volunteered to write Aminoglycoside and Vanco protocols working with an ID physician. This was done on my own time.. I also prepared cost saving substitution programs because it made sense to do so. Then the DOP created a clinical coordinator position for me.

I took a DOP position at a semi rural community hospital. They were stuck in the 60's. While severely understaffed, I convinced the hospital Board of Directors to fund the pharmacy for automation. I went with the latest version of Pyxis... in fact I unloaded the cabinets from the truck.. and distributed the cabinets around hospital.

As a DOP for a large corporate hospital, I created a reporting program for the other 9 hospitals in the region to track and trend utilization.. this was beyond the job description as a DOP... then I was asked to work on regional pharmacy projects by the Division President.

As a managing consultant now, I constantly create new tools and ideas for my colleagues.. not because I'm asked to do it... because I enjoy the creativity of the job I do. This is perhaps the reason why my productivity is much higher than my colleagues.

I've always done more than what I was asked to do... I don't know why.. but I wanted to. This has allowed me to build a skill set that's valuable to health care institutions. I have found my niche.. not straight out of school but after 10 years of inpatient work.

 

[Its Z]

I might catch some flak for this but in my opinion I think a residency for pharmacist equates to slave labor. I've worked with clinical pharmacists with the old BS degree that never did a residency and are very good at what they do. I know experience counts for something, but I feel as a fresh graduate my clinical skills are pretty sharp and I could do a lot of the jobs clinical pharmacist do. Not to sound arrogant or anything. I just think residency is another unnecessary hoop to jump through. Not too long ago it wasn't necessary to do residency to to get a clinical position. But you are right, people are where they want to be because they do the work and put themselves there. But for some it just isn't realistic. Obviously the ID pharmacist you hired did the ID fellowship. But how many ID pharmacists does a hospital really need? I think pretty soon there will be ID pharmacists and other specialist pharmacist that end up either staffing in a hospital or even working retail just because of the economic climate. A job is better than no job.

I think every hospital should have at least 1 ID pharmacist on staff. Why? Exception of oncology meds, antimicrobials constitute the largest drug class expenditure at most hospitals in the US. Some studies have estimated 50% of antimicrobials in the healthcare setting are mis-used.

There's nothing wrong with specialists doing some staffing as I believe in hybrid clinical/staff model. Residency is not slave labor. If residents did nothing more than staff work and got paid what they did, then it's slave labor. But residency is more than that.

You say your clinical skills are sharp. Have you worked at a hospital?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I want to start off by addressing the life fairness issue. Life is NOT fair. Anyone who expects it to be is naive and setting themselves up for disappointment after disappointment.

I decided to go to pharmacy school after the birth of my only child (2003). I did my research on the field and learned that it paid well and pharmacists were in high demand. I figured it was a way to provide my daughter with opportunities that I didn't have. For me pharmacy was less of a lifetime calling and more like a pragmatic decision to change careers.

I started in 2006 at the University of Kentucky. My daughter was almost three. School was an hour and a half away from our home. I was gone a lot, and missed out on things with my family, but thought it would be worth it. I thought I had the rest of my life to make it up to them.

On July 25, 2008 I was sitting in my dining room doing work for SDN. I was sending someone an infraction for posting a porn pic in the Lounge. My phone rang. It was a police officer calling to tell me that Riley had been hit by a car on the way to swim class with her cousin. Within an hour, I would learn that both children were dead and my sister in law was seriously injured. The world ended for me that day.

After that, I didn't care about being a pharmacist anymore. I withdrew from school. I had no job and no plans for the future. It didn't matter.

I existed like that for a few months, until my supervisor from the VA called me and asked me to come back to my old job. I did but I was just going through the motions. I didn't care about pharmacy, didn't care about myself or anything else. I didn't think about the future. I didn't think about anything.

Although I didn't know it, going back to work at the VA would be one of the best decisions I'd ever make. I reconnected with an old friend, and made a new friend (both pharmacists). They encouraged me to get back in school and inspired me to become interested in the profession again.

I had a spot being held for me at the University of Kentucky but for a variety of reasons, I wasn't able to go back there. I contacted the dean of Sullivan University's new college of pharmacy and he offered me the opportunity to finish my PharmD there, with the promise that I would have all of the time off I needed to attend to legal/judicial matters pertaining to my daughter's death.

So in April of last year, I went back to pharmacy school. It took me a while to get back into it, and I'm still not interested in school to the degree I once was. My tolerance for BS is a lot lower and I can't even feign interest in student organizations or stuff like that. But I am SO grateful to Dean Tran for giving me the opportunity to finish my PharmD, because I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

It nearly killed me to see my former classmates graduate a few weeks ago, because I should have been with them. If life were FAIR, I'd be taking my daughter on the post-graduation trip to Disneyworld and Universal Studios that we were planning when she died. Life is not fair.

So, what's my point? Well, the world has changed dramatically since I started school. The job market has changed. My job prospects now are totally different than when I began in 2006. But so what? **** happens. Life is not fair. Complaining about it won't make it so. We can't control the circumstances that life throws at us. We can ONLY control how we react to them.

My choice is to stay the course. Yes, it will be more difficult to find a job when I graduate. Yes, I may not get my dream job starting out. Yes, I might end up in my 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choice job, but what else I am going to do? All any of us can do is work with what we have. I'll take my 3rd choice job and do a good job, continue networking and increase my skills base. I'll continue looking for opportunities.

The job market is nothing like it was when I decided to become a pharmacist. But, my LIFE is nothing like it was when I decided to become a pharmacist. I could complain, but what would that get me? No thanks. I'll just keep going because that's all I know how to do.

 

[GamecockPharmD]

I think every hospital should have at least 1 ID pharmacist on staff. Why? Exception of oncology meds, antimicrobials constitute the largest drug class expenditure at most hospitals in the US. Some studies have estimated 50% of antimicrobials in the healthcare setting are mis-used.

There's nothing wrong with specialists doing some staffing as I believe in hybrid clinical/staff model. Residency is not slave labor. If residents did nothing more than staff work and got paid what they did, then it's slave labor. But residency is more than that.

You say your clinical skills are sharp. Have you worked at a hospital?

I never got the impression you were boasting. I realize I still have a lot to learn and I value the opinion and the stories that those with more experience have. Like I said I never wanted to sound arrogant. It gives me better insight on the profession and that's the reason I joined these forums. I did some time in a hospital, but I was actually pretty surprised how much drama and politics is involved. It was a small hospital and I got better pay as an intern working retail and I needed the money. I don't know if the politics thing was specific for that hospital but I thought it was stupid. One thing though is that I did a lot of side projects like handouts for the formulary review committee on new drugs. And by handouts I mean like 6 page papers. I feel confident in my ability to handle clinical problems and I was told by my preceptors on rotation that I should do a residency. At the same time I had a lot going on, like arson at my home. **** happens though that's life. I probably should have gone the residency route to open up more opportunities.

 

[owlegrad]

During summers, I asked for projects and started a weekly intern lecture series...we prepared our presentation on our own time. Then we presented it to the house staff.

May I ask what you presented on? Or what the purpose of the presentations were? I ask because I love giving presentations, and if I can think of a good reason to give them then I would love to try to setup the same kinda thing. I guess I am blatantly asking you to give me a good excuse/reason to go to my pharmacy manager and request to give a presentation/series of presentations. Also, may I steal the credit for the idea?

 

[GamecockPharmD]

I want to start off by addressing the life fairness issue. Life is NOT fair. Anyone who expects it to be is naive and setting themselves up for disappointment after disappointment.

I decided to go to pharmacy school after the birth of my only child (2003). I did my research on the field and learned that it paid well and pharmacists were in high demand. I figured it was a way to provide my daughter with opportunities that I didn't have. For me pharmacy was less of a lifetime calling and more like a pragmatic decision to change careers.

I started in 2006 at the University of Kentucky. My daughter was almost three. School was an hour and a half away from our home. I was gone a lot, and missed out on things with my family, but thought it would be worth it. I thought I had the rest of my life to make it up to them.

On July 25, 2008 I was sitting in my dining room doing work for SDN. I was sending someone an infraction for posting a porn pic in the Lounge. My phone rang. It was a police officer calling to tell me that Riley had been hit by a car on the way to swim class with her cousin. Within an hour, I would learn that both children were dead and my sister in law was seriously injured. The world ended for me that day.

After that, I didn't care about being a pharmacist anymore. I withdrew from school. I had no job and no plans for the future. It didn't matter.

I existed like that for a few months, until my supervisor from the VA called me and asked me to come back to my old job. I did but I was just going through the motions. I didn't care about pharmacy, didn't care about myself or anything else. I didn't think about the future. I didn't think about anything.

Although I didn't know it, going back to work at the VA would be one of the best decisions I'd ever make. I reconnected with an old friend, and made a new friend (both pharmacists). They encouraged me to get back in school and inspired me to become interested in the profession again.

I had a spot being held for me at the University of Kentucky but for a variety of reasons, I wasn't able to go back there. I contacted the dean of Sullivan University's new college of pharmacy and he offered me the opportunity to finish my PharmD there, with the promise that I would have all of the time off I needed to attend to legal/judicial matters pertaining to my daughter's death.

So in April of last year, I went back to pharmacy school. It took me a while to get back into it, and I'm still not interested in school to the degree I once was. My tolerance for BS is a lot lower and I can't even feign interest in student organizations or stuff like that. But I am SO grateful to Dean Tran for giving me the opportunity to finish my PharmD, because I wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

It nearly killed me to see my former classmates graduate a few weeks ago, because I should have been with them. If life were FAIR, I'd be taking my daughter on the post-graduation trip to Disneyworld and Universal Studios that we were planning when she died. Life is not fair.

So, what's my point? Well, the world has changed dramatically since I started school. The job market has changed. My job prospects now are totally different than when I began in 2006. But so what? **** happens. Life is not fair. Complaining about it won't make it so. We can't control the circumstances that life throws at us. We can ONLY control how we react to them.

My choice is to stay the course. Yes, it will be more difficult to find a job when I graduate. Yes, I may not get my dream job starting out. Yes, I might end up in my 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choice job, but what else I am going to do? All any of us can do is work with what we have. I'll take my 3rd choice job and do a good job, continue networking and increase my skills base. I'll continue looking for opportunities.

The job market is nothing like it was when I decided to become a pharmacist. But, my LIFE is nothing like it was when I decided to become a pharmacist. I could complain, but what would that get me? No thanks. I'll just keep going because that's all I know how to do.

I couldn't imagine going through what you have. And to continue with your education really demonstrates your character. You are a lot stronger than most people. I don't think I would have been able to go on if I were in your situation.

 

[GamecockPharmD]

May I ask what you presented on? Or what the purpose of the presentations were? I ask because I love giving presentations, and if I can think of a good reason to give them then I would love to try to setup the same kinda thing. I guess I am blatantly asking you to give me a good excuse/reason to go to my pharmacy manager and request to give a presentation/series of presentations. Also, may I steal the credit for the idea?

i know this wasn't directed to me, but do amiodarone vs. dronedarone. another good one is the cost-effectiveness of epo alfa vs blood transfusions if you work in a hospital. that's been tackled a lot but physicians bring it up all the time.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

NOBODY IS CLAIMING THAT "LIFE SHOULD BE FAIR."

Just to make sure you people know that you are lecturing nobody.

 

[owlegrad]

i know this wasn't directed to me, but do amiodarone vs. dronedarone. another good one is the cost-effectiveness of epo alfa vs blood transfusions if you work in a hospital. that's been tackled a lot but physicians bring it up all the time.

Don't worry about it not being directed at you, thanks for the ideas! I guess I could have given more information about my situation. I am interning at a rehabilitation hospital (just started), so I don't think epo alfa vs blood transfusions is gonna be relevant. I guess I could also ask my boss if their are any "good" topics to present on? But I would like to take some concrete ideas to her before I solicit ideas from her.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Don't worry about it not being directed at you, thanks for the ideas! I guess I could have given more information about my situation. I am interning at a rehabilitation hospital (just started), so I don't think epo alfa vs blood transfusions is gonna be relevant. I guess I could also ask my boss if their are any "good" topics to present on? But I would like to take some concrete ideas to her before I solicit ideas from her.

Maybe pain management topics? Or Tramadol and seizures? Or Tramadol drug interactions/5HT syndrome? These are some things that have recently come up at my job.