What do you think?

[Luck]

The following was said by a doctor from Harvard and a moderator on SDN.

Remember: DOs are by and large folks who failed to get into us allo schools (spare me the occasional individual who opted for that pathway primarily) and PD's know it. Some PDs even have the inappropriate bias that DO's have a wacky philosophy.

Is this the general consensus in the medical community? Stephew puts most DOs on the level of caribbean students at least from the big 3. I strongly disagree with the above statement but it's tough when I see these kind of statements coming from someone like that. Here's another one by the same poster.

Remember that DO's are viewed in general the same way as IMGs- folks who failed to get into a us med school.

So I guess most DO students are MD rejects.

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[Amy B]

I went and read the posts from the thread you are quoting and quite frankly I was shocked at the fact that a moderator here on SDN would say such things. Who is moderating the moderators?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=137533&page=3&pp=20

There is no reason to say such things about DO schools. We are not all rejects from MD schools and I take a personal offense to this moderator saying that. DO and MD = DOCTOR.

This thread will probably be closed because it appears Luck is starting a personal attack, BUT if they hadn't posted this we might not have known that a SDN moderator was cutting DO students down.

I do recognize that people on both sides on that thread seem to be lashing out (DO vs Caribbean), I don't believe a moderator should become involved and cut down others here on SDN. Now granted, I am not a moderator, even though I have been on SDN longer than a whole lot of folks, so I don't know what moderators are told about what they should and shouldn't do here on SDN, BUT I don't think they should say negative things about others or the professions others have chosen. Leave that to the posters and rise above them.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

 

[Luck]

I went and read the posts from the thread you are quoting and quite frankly I was shocked at the fact that a moderator here on SDN would say such things. Who is moderating the moderators?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=137533&page=3&pp=20

There is no reason to say such things about DO schools. We are not all rejects from MD schools and I take a personal offense to this moderator saying that. DO and MD = DOCTOR.

This thread will probably be closed because it appears Luck is starting a personal attack, BUT if they hadn't posted this we might not have known that a SDN moderator was cutting DO students down.

I do recognize that people on both sides seem to be lashing out (DO vs Caribbean), I don't believe a moderator should become involved and cut down others here on SDN. Now granted, I am not a moderator, even though I have been on SDN longer tha a whole lot of folks, so I don't know what moderators are told about what they should and shouldn't do here on SDN, BUT I don't think they should say negative things about others or the professions others have chosen. Leave that to the posters and rise above them.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.

Frankly I was shocked by these words and it goes to show that prejudice even exists among practicing physicians.

Granted I'm not exactly the angel citizen on SDN, but when something like that comes from not just a moderator on SDN but a moderator on ValueMD and an instructor at Harvard for Radiation Oncology, there has to be something wrong there.

This is not a personal attack on this person though. It just was an example that even the seemingly most nicest and respected physicians will have such views on DOs.

So again I ask, do most MDs believe that DOs are MD rejects as stephew does?

 

[Amy B]

Don't get me wrong, I personally don't think this was attack by you. I think maybe some others might think that, but I don't.

It seems that the older doctors, closer to retirement still have a bias towards DOs, but almost ALL the younger doctors I have spoken to about this very subject don't have any bias. Many of them have said that they work side by side with DOs on a daily basis and both sides respect and admire the other side.

 

[bgreet]

Isn't he biased because he graduated from a carribean medical school?

 

[Boomer]

Isn't he biased because he graduated from a carribean medical school?

Yeah, ditto that. He's one of the few exceptions who has made it for himself in a competitive field from a diploma mill.

 

[Cowboy DO]

Isn't he biased because he graduated from a carribean medical school?

Yes.

 

[Luck]

Isn't he biased because he graduated from a carribean medical school?

Apparently, stephew is a female.

 

[PreDentJennifer]

I have been reading a lot of these threads because my younger brother is at a point where he either Caribbean or DO bound...

It seems like Luck had been bashing Caribbean students and Steph came on there to stand up for her people.

Although my brother is probably going to go the D.O. route to stay close to his fiancee, I must admit that Luck has made D.O.'s look quite bad from what I have read. Luck just seems the need to justify osteopathic medicine, and so by putting others down. I just hope all D.O.'s will not have such an attitude towards others choices on where to attend school.

Wishing you all the best of luck.

 

[Luck]

I have been reading a lot of these threads because my younger brother is at a point where he either Caribbean or DO bound...

It seems like Luck had been bashing Caribbean students and Steph came on there to stand up for her people.

Although my brother is probably going to go the D.O. route to stay close to his fiancee, I must admit that Luck has made D.O.'s look quite bad from what I have read. Luck just seems the need to justify osteopathic medicine, and so by putting others down. I just hope all D.O.'s will not have such an attitude towards others choices on where to attend school.

Wishing you all the best of luck.

I find if funny that somehow it always comes back to me. I don't put others down, I just make it clear that premeds should apply MD and DO schools in the US first, then caribbean. I don't see how that puts people down.

Besides PreDent, that still does not justify what stephew says now does it.

 

[BACMEDIC]

I should have looked up the post and posted there, but I'm a bit pressed for time.

Considering that allo schools teach to the USMLE, one would think that allo students would do very well on the test, and we would also expect osteo students to not fair as well. In fact, perhaps osteos could be predicted to even fail outright, given your logic that we are all rejects, and of course we are studying for our own boards. Given that, here are the figures for 2002 of the percent of DOs passing the USMLE verses MDs passing:

Step 1: 67% passed vs 88% for allo
Step 2: 88% passed vs 95% for allo
Step 3 : 96% passed vs 92% for allo

It would be interesting to see how allos would do on the COMLEX exams, but that?s beside the point. Given the fact that osteos are right behind the allos and do fairly well for a test that is not theirs, and even surpassing the allos on step three, simple implies that there is little to no real difference. Those who continue to bash ignore these facts and ignore what is happening in the real world. Why? Most folks that find the need to put another group of people down are just covering for some deficiency in their life. Of course, the argument from the OP of the mentioned post shows that even idiots get into allo schools.

For allo students, remember osteopathy came about by an MD who thought that cutting peoples veins to bleed them, or throwing chemicals into their bodies that induced sever vomiting and diarrhea was not the best way to treat disease ? but it was the common way that MDs treated their patients. Do MDs practice this type of medicine anymore, or course not? All change, and Osteopathy has also changed over time as well, as reflected by the above board scores.

http://www.usmle.org/news/2002perf.htm

 

[Cowboy DO]

Ummm...whats that have anything to do with the topic at hand?

 

[BACMEDIC]

Ummm...whats that have anything to do with the topic at hand?

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Good grief?

>> DOs are by and large folks who failed to get into us allo schools<<

Why did they fail to get into an allo school ? the implication is that DOs do not have the smarts to pass the MCAT or get high a high enough gpa to get into any allo school. However, the boards show that for a group of people who are not even taught to that board test, we hold our own very well ? and even surpassing them on the last step? which in my mind, blows his/her argument out of the water.

When some tend to criticize others for a different path, it is often wise to recount to them why that path was taken in the first place ? no one and no group is perfect, and so no one should be throwing stones. It is too bad that we have to treat some like children by reminding them - but life is full of insecure people - even in the allo schools.

 

[Cowboy DO]

I was just skimming this thread and I thought we were talking about the fact that stephew said something like this, not debating what he actually said. My fault.

 

[Amy B]

Actually I think we are talking about both topics.

My question is..... does anyone think a moderator should say such things, or am I just being too emtional about his words?

 

[stephew]

I have no negative feelings about the osteopathic pathway whatsoever. My point is merely that I wouldnt tell a premed student to automatically rank the DO pathway over the IMG pathway (or vice-versa for that matter). To have a bad view of DO's is as silly as calling a good IMG school a diploma mill. Simple as that.

 

[SDN]

People are waaay too sensitive about this.

I don't think the MD/DO/IMG pathways need any defending -- each has its pros and cons, but all are legitimate methods for obtaining medical licensure in the US. Based on personal reasons, some people want the MD degree and others the DO degree.

As I've stated in other forums, we encourage discussion of different pathways and professions, but we don?t tolerate personal attacks.

I've closed this thread and banned Luck for violating our trolling policies, despite prior warnings and probationary period.