what do you think?

[FeetforLife]

Hi all, I have just sent in my application to the California school, NY school, and Scholl. I was hoping to get some feedback on the "chances" I might have to gain admission to any of these schools. I graduated just this summer from the University of California Irvine with BS in Biology (obviously). I wish I could say that I am fully confident with my statistics but due to personal circumstances my GPA does not represent my academic competency. Understanding the reality of the situation, I have done as much as I can to compensate for the shortage in this admission factor by being proactive with leadership, extracurricular activities, healthcare experience, etc. I will be taking the MCAT very soon, and already know this is important in proving to the admissions commitees of ability. Podiatry has been the profession I have decided on with my whole heart. It is not a back up like I see it is for some unfortunately ..so I really do hope I gain admission to one of three schools at least. To the point here are my stats in a small nutshell...I also included a snippet of my personal statement ("why do you want to be a podiatrist") to give you a better feel for where I am coming from....

science: 2.7
overall: 2.6
mcat: scheduled

extra curricular:
(healthcare experience)
-shave biopsies, curettage and electrodessication, incision and drainage, excision, process pathology, etc. I have been trained to perform toenail clippings for fungal cultures and PAS stains to rule out onychomycosis as well.
-shadowing podiatry students at hospital
-shadowing podiatrist at private practice

(on campus)
-several healthcare clubs
-greek system
-writer for newsletter
-set up podiatry presentation by inviting admissions counselor to campus. I put together an information packet for students so they could learn more about the profession...included career information, interview, and school contacts.

(other)
-sat in on a biomechanics course taught at the California school to get a feel for podiatric education/training

SNIPPET from personal statement describing my shadow experience:

One patient, Frank, lost his foot from what started out as ulceration. In that room, I started to think of my late, grandmother Molly who lost her legs and an arm due to diabetic complications. As a young girl, I witnessed her deterioration. It was a slow, progressive debt that took away not only her physical volume, but her spiritual volume. With the number of diabetics on the rise, the number of complications involving the foot will also increase. Thus, the amount of help needed to treat and prevent such patient populations will inevitably be in demand which brings my desire to help into the picture.
-----------

It would be wonderful to hear what you all have to say out there, thanks

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[Dr. Gangrene]

You have a few things going against you.
1. It is mid April.
2. No MCAT.
3. Lower GPA.

The combination of all 3 and the fact that most schools should be nearing capacity work against you.
Cali might be your best shot since you attended one of their classes.
Your extras look good.
If it was earlier in the app year, you would probably be a little better off.

When is your MCAT? Rock that out, and it will help w/ the GPA.

Good luck. If this year doesnt work out, just do well on the mcat and you should be ok next year.

 

[Catayst]

Maybe you'll get in to one of those schools, but it seems like it would be more advantageous for you to apply next year when you have the mcat score and can have more of a choice in what school you attend.

That's cool though that you're inspiring others in your school to look into podiatry. Too many advisers can't see beyond the typical pre-med curriculum and a lot of aspiring physicians aren't exposed to the DPM or DO option.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I agree 100% with the other posters. With the combination of a low GPA , no MCAT, and the fact it is April are all against you. But that being said, I guarantee that you will be offered interviews at all 3 schools. I also think that you may be accepted at NY and Cali. With a class of over 100, NY usually has much lower standards than other schools.

If you do not get accepted this cycle, a few tips for the future.
1) Always kick buns on the MCAT. A high MCAT always trumps a low GPA.
2) If you know that you have lower stats, apply early. Many schools accept marginal students early b/c they don't know what will happen later in the application cycle.
3) Apply to all of the schools. While it may be more expensive, you left off a few other schools that have lower entrance stats such as Temple and Barry.
4) Practice your interview. A confident interview with all of the right answers can make or break marginal stats.

Good luck and if it doesn't work out this year, try again early next year.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

I agree 100% with the other posters. With the combination of a low GPA , no MCAT, and the fact it is April are all against you. But that being said, I guarantee that you will be offered interviews at all 3 schools. I also think that you may be accepted at NY and Cali. With a class of over 100, NY usually has much lower standards than other schools.

If you do not get accepted this cycle, a few tips for the future.
1) Always kick buns on the MCAT. A high MCAT always trumps a low GPA.
2) If you know that you have lower stats, apply early. Many schools accept marginal students early b/c they don't know what will happen later in the application cycle.
3) Apply to all of the schools. While it may be more expensive, you left off a few other schools that have lower entrance stats such as Temple and Barry.
4) Practice your interview. A confident interview with all of the right answers can make or break marginal stats.

Good luck and if it doesn't work out this year, try again early next year.

I will have to disagree with you on Temple accepting lower stats and comparing it with barry since the mean GPA acceptance at Temple is 3.34 and MCAT 23 which is in the area of DMU accepted stats and higher than scholls from the info I have. I know you like down playing Temple but facts are facts.

 

[Feli]

Your application will basically look like someone who split his focus too much in undergrad and was spending time doing "extra" stuff when he should have been in the library with his textbooks. Yes, there are less productive things to do with your free time and experience is good, but grades have to remain #1.

As someone who worked 30hrs/wk at a hospital during undergrad, I'm speaking from experience and can empathize with the "GPA does not represent my academic competency" feeling (2.9gpa and 28R MCAT for me). The problem is that GPA actually does reflect exactly what you feel yours is not showing. School performance / academic competence has two components: natural talent and study time. You need to understand and respect both - no matter how smart you are. In your case, it looks like you need to drop some activities to make more study time. I did the same thing and have been quite successful in my pod program.

You need a strong MCAT, and I'd strongly advise trimming out most/all of the extra stuff during grad school until your GPA is much more stable (at which point you may choose to slowly add back in extra duties/activities). Good luck.

 

[FeetforLife]

Thanks for all the replies, it is nice to hear what you all think..hopeful or not. I suppose we all know the answers to our questions but sometimes need to hear it from another mouth.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I will have to disagree with you on Temple accepting lower stats and comparing it with barry since the mean GPA acceptance at Temple is 3.34 and MCAT 23 which is in the area of DMU accepted stats and higher than scholls from the info I have. I know you like down playing Temple but facts are facts.

Okay (sarcasm)

With one of the larger class sizes in DPM schools, they accept lower stats. It has nothing to do with the program or education; it has to do with the numbers and money. If this was not true, why won't they move to only accept the MCAT? You can believe what you want, but you are wrong.

The facts are facts. TUSPM has had trouble filling their 2009 and 2010 class. They have accepted students up until school started the last two years and have been unable to completely fill the class. Again, I speaking with 3 years of experience as a student and 1 as a applicant; I might just know a thing or two.

Of course, you maybe right, maybe their stats are higher this year. Plus, I'm sure they would never accept lower stats at the "Harvard of podiatric schools."

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Okay (sarcasm)

With one of the larger class sizes in DPM schools, they accept lower stats. It has nothing to do with the program or education; it has to do with the numbers and money. If this was not true, why won't they move to only accept the MCAT? You can believe what you want, but you are wrong.

The facts are facts. TUSPM has had trouble filling their 2009 and 2010 class. They have accepted students up until school started the last two years and have been unable to completely fill the class. Again, I speaking with 3 years of experience as a student and 1 as a applicant; I might just know a thing or two.

Of course, you maybe right, maybe their stats are higher this year. Plus, I'm sure they would never accept lower stats at the "Harvard of podiatric schools."

Well not filling a large class with such low numbers of applicants isn't the worst thing especially if they reject unqualified ones. Isn't that better than accepting the bad ones to fill the class? And if the class was smaller like your school, of course it would be easier to fill. Although it would be good if they did want a smaller class in the first place though.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

duplicate

 

[calcaneus]

Okay (sarcasm)

With one of the larger class sizes in DPM schools, they accept lower stats. It has nothing to do with the program or education; it has to do with the numbers and money. If this was not true, why won't they move to only accept the MCAT? You can believe what you want, but you are wrong.

The facts are facts. TUSPM has had trouble filling their 2009 and 2010 class. They have accepted students up until school started the last two years and have been unable to completely fill the class. Again, I speaking with 3 years of experience as a student and 1 as a applicant; I might just know a thing or two.

Of course, you maybe right, maybe their stats are higher this year. Plus, I'm sure they would never accept lower stats at the "Harvard of podiatric schools."

You say facts are facts, but then you mention class sizes and trouble filling classes. How does trouble filling classes equate to lower accepted stats? It seems to me bdaddyjolley makes a good point that maybe they aren't filling to capacity precisely because they are rejecting less qualified applicants. If facts are facts, refute the fact stated earlier about the accepted GPA and MCAT scores.

To be honest, this sounds more like school rivalry to me than one school actually being better than the other.

As someone trying to decide which school to send my deposit to (for class of 2012) I'd like to hear.

 

[calcaneus]

I want to make sure to acknowledge that I certainly don't have as much experience with podiatry or pod school as the senior members and these are just my perceptions.

don't want to step on any toes or burn any bridges since I can always use you more experienced guys' advice/thoughts

 

[artse]

NY has two different starting semesters I believe. One starts in Sep. and another one in Jan. If you don't get your mcat scores in time...you can try NYCPM's Jan semester. Just a thought.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

You say facts are facts, but then you mention class sizes and trouble filling classes. How does trouble filling classes equate to lower accepted stats? It seems to me bdaddyjolley makes a good point that maybe they aren't filling to capacity precisely because they are rejecting less qualified applicants. If facts are facts, refute the fact stated earlier about the accepted GPA and MCAT scores.

To be honest, this sounds more like school rivalry to me than one school actually being better than the other.

As someone trying to decide which school to send my deposit to (for class of 2012) I'd like to hear.

If you and bdaddy read my post, I said "It has nothing to do with the program or education." So it is not school rivalry, I could give a monkey's butt about TUSPM. TUSPM cannot hold a candle to the top schools any longer, facts are facts. A 50% board pass rate will not cut it. They can try to claim that the NBPME is not valid, which they did. But the numbers don't lie, if if the school does.

If anything, bdaddy should be happy to admit that TUSPM accepts lesser students, which would justify the lower board pass rates. It would not be the curriculum, it would be poor student stock.

Why I bring up the inability of TUSPM to fill the class is they have been very desperate to fill the class. They have lost many of their superior applicants (which committed to TUSPM in the past) to Scholl, AZPod, and DMU. I did not say that the class was not full b/c they reject students. I would put money on the table that no one on this forum has ever been rejected by TUSPM. Can the same be said about other schools?

I did refute the GPA stats, the only posted entrance stat is a 3.2 on the TUSPM website (http://podiatry.temple.edu/Admissions/admissions.html). bdaddy pulled those numbers from no where, I would be happy if he could prove his stats.. Maybe that is what TUSPM told him, but as we have discussed in other threads, TUSPM is not always honest.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

NY has two different starting semesters I believe. One starts in Sep. and another one in Jan. If you don't get your mcat scores in time...you can try NYCPM's Jan semester. Just a thought.

They do have two start times, but I would check with the admissions staff b/c the winter semester is similar to a 5 year program. There maybe certain things that must be considered, such as 1 low grade means expulsion from the program. I don't know but I would just really look into it. Also, make sure residencies don't look down on extended study programs. Again, I don't know but I would ask these questions before signing up.

 

[calcaneus]

If you and bdaddy read my post, I said "It has nothing to do with the program or education." So it is not school rivalry, I could give a monkey's butt about TUSPM. TUSPM cannot hold a candle to the top schools any longer, facts are facts. A 50% board pass rate will not cut it. They can try to claim that the NBPME is not valid, which they did. But the numbers don't lie, if if the school does.

If anything, bdaddy should be happy to admit that TUSPM accepts lesser students, which would justify the lower board pass rates. It would not be the curriculum, it would be poor student stock.

Why I bring up the inability of TUSPM to fill the class is they have been very desperate to fill the class. They have lost many of their superior applicants (which committed to TUSPM in the past) to Scholl, AZPod, and DMU. I did not say that the class was not full b/c they reject students. I would put money on the table that no one on this forum has ever been rejected by TUSPM. Can the same be said about other schools?

I did refute the GPA stats, the only posted entrance stat is a 3.2 on the TUSPM website (http://podiatry.temple.edu/Admissions/admissions.html). bdaddy pulled those numbers from no where, I would be happy if he could prove his stats.. Maybe that is what TUSPM told him, but as we have discussed in other threads, TUSPM is not always honest.

Knowing hard facts such as 50% board pass rate (I'm assuming that 1st time pass rate) is what I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[FeetforLife]

"Dr. Feelgood"-

Do you believe I will receive interviews based on what you have seen in the past with other applicants in similar situations? If so, how soon do you think I could hear back from them?

Thanks again!

 

[calcaneus]

Another question, PM me if you'd prefer.

What is the benefit DMU has in having classes with DO students over Temple having classes taught by the same MD professors and having the same tests?
It seems like the only difference is having the students themselves physically in the same room for the lecture and I don't see the great benefit of that...however, I've never had a med school lecture.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

"Dr. Feelgood"-

Do you believe I will receive interviews based on what you have seen in the past with other applicants in similar situations? If so, how soon do you think I could hear back from them?

Thanks again!

Yes, I do believe you will get an interview. But I will not guarantee acceptance. But if your MCAT is above a 20, I would say you have a chance of being accepted. I would suggest an MCAT above 22 to ensure admittance.

You generally hear back within 2 weeks of applying.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Another question, PM me if you'd prefer.

What is the benefit DMU has in having classes with DO students over Temple having classes taught by the same MD professors and having the same tests?
It seems like the only difference is having the students themselves physically in the same room for the lecture and I don't see the great benefit of that...however, I've never had a med school lecture.

You must remember, that TUSPM tells people that they are taking the same test. I cannot say that this is true, neither can the MD students, or the DPM students. Unless someone is taking both courses, then they can tell us if they are the same. Even if they are the same, they are able to curve any test grade. AZPod and DMU do not have a curve b/c of the DO counterparts. I cannot say if all of the classes are "equal" to the MD program.

I do think that TUSPM students can receive a great education; that is why I believe that their board pass rate is low b/c they take lower end students. Why is it tough for Michigan State to win a national championship in football? Is it b/c Michigan and OSU have better coaches and better playbooks? Or is it they get better players?

The reasons DMU, Scholl, and AZPod have moved to the top probably have more to do with new facilities, smaller class sizes, and less expenses b/c they share the costs of basic science professors (which is why they have the first two). It is about leadership not microbiology; about vision and planning not anatomy.

Also, to bdaddy, why is it you always jump to conclusions? Did you see a NYCPM or Barry student freak out? You have not sat in one class yet you know more about everything than anyone. I was talking to the OP not you. If you don't like it don't read it. I am not here to show school loyalty; I'm here to help others and advance the profession.

 

[calcaneus]

Thanks for your thoughts Dr. Feelgood.

You're lucky I'm an MSU basketball fan . I was at the MSU-Illinois football game this year...that was just terrible!

 

[calcaneus]

But seriously...what the hek happened to Stanton? He was a Heisman contender at the beginning of the year.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

But seriously...what the hek happened to Stanton? He was a Heisman contender at the beginning of the year.

Its hard to win a Heisman when you are throwing off your back foot. They need a line and RB so D's can't pass rush every down.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

If you and bdaddy read my post, I said "It has nothing to do with the program or education." So it is not school rivalry, I could give a monkey's butt about TUSPM. TUSPM cannot hold a candle to the top schools any longer, facts are facts. A 50% board pass rate will not cut it. They can try to claim that the NBPME is not valid, which they did. But the numbers don't lie, if if the school does.

If anything, bdaddy should be happy to admit that TUSPM accepts lesser students, which would justify the lower board pass rates. It would not be the curriculum, it would be poor student stock.

Why I bring up the inability of TUSPM to fill the class is they have been very desperate to fill the class. They have lost many of their superior applicants (which committed to TUSPM in the past) to Scholl, AZPod, and DMU. I did not say that the class was not full b/c they reject students. I would put money on the table that no one on this forum has ever been rejected by TUSPM. Can the same be said about other schools?

I did refute the GPA stats, the only posted entrance stat is a 3.2 on the TUSPM website (http://podiatry.temple.edu/Admissions/admissions.html). bdaddy pulled those numbers from no where, I would be happy if he could prove his stats.. Maybe that is what TUSPM told him, but as we have discussed in other threads, TUSPM is not always honest.

I didn't pull those numbers from nowhere, I got them from the 2009 class profile which isn't on the website. Everybody who interviews there gets that stat just like DMU gave me their stats in the info packet which is different from what you quote. And where do you get the 50% board pass rate which I have heard differently myself? I have seen you write 60% in another thread so your numbers keep changing. It sounds more hearsay to me. You never give your source on that stat but just claim it. And I havent seen any post of anyone getting rejected from other schools. THe most I have seen is people waitlisted.

What's funny too is this quote by you, "I'm a big fan of Temple. The facilities are a little old but they've got a great staff. Harvey Lamont is the man when it comes to podiatric research. He is actually doing research not stealing it from others." Here is the link, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=286741

So what makes you not a fan anymore less than a year later?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

You are very selective on what you read? Did you see where I posted,

I do think that TUSPM students can receive a great education; that is why I believe that their board pass rate is low b/c they take lower end students. Why is it tough for Michigan State to win a national championship in football? Is it b/c Michigan and OSU have better coaches and better playbooks? Or is it they get better players?

The reasons DMU, Scholl, and AZPod have moved to the top probably have more to do with new facilities, smaller class sizes, and less expenses b/c they share the costs of basic science professors (which is why they have the first two). It is about leadership not microbiology; about vision and planning not anatomy.

I don't know what the actual numbers are. Maybe Jonwill, Krabs, or Gusty can fill us in. Maybe TUSPM reported there pass rate at the APMSA.

My round about numbers came from two sources:
1) The fact that we crunch some of the numbers using NYCPM, DMU, AZPod, and Scholl numbers (which you quoted)
2) A very reputable source who said it was in the 50s.

Whether it is 50, 55 or 60%, it still stinks to high heaven. So what have they done to improve? The Dean of TUSPM challenged the tests validity instead of asking why his students do poorly (that is a fact). Is that good leadership?

Also, Dr. Lemont is a researcher and professor not the dean.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

You are very selective on what you read? Did you see where I posted,



I don't know what the actual numbers are. Maybe Jonwill, Krabs, or Gusty can fill us in. Maybe TUSPM reported there pass rate at the APMSA.

My round about numbers came from two sources:
1) The fact that we crunch some of the numbers using NYCPM, DMU, AZPod, and Scholl numbers (which you quoted)
2) A very reputable source who said it was in the 50s.

Whether it is 50, 55 or 60%, it still stinks to high heaven. So what have they done to improve? The Dean of TUSPM challenged the tests validity instead of asking why his students do poorly (that is a fact). Is that good leadership?

Also, Dr. Lemont is a researcher and professor not the dean.

Agreed, we don't know the numbers but they aren't as good as can be. my source says it was the national average for the last time taken which isn't that great either butwho knows.
I don't like getting is these arguments but I guess I get defensive about my school. Sometimes it seems like people just dog it and don't bring up its good points so i jump in. Human nature, what can I tell you?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Agreed, we don't know the numbers but they aren't as good as can be. my source says it was the national average for the last time taken which isn't that great either butwho knows.
I don't like getting is these arguments but I guess I get defensive about my school. Sometimes it seems like people just dog it and don't bring up its good points so i jump in. Human nature, what can I tell you?

I understand. I just hope in the future you don't jump to conclusions about a posters intentions. I still stand by my original comments if I was a marginal applicant, I would apply to all of the schools I listed. It is not a knock on the education, it is more of a knock on the admissions process at the schools. As I stated micro is micro, the only difference is DMU and AZPod cannot curve the grades. So a 3.3 GPA at DMU maybe equal to a higher GPA at another school. It does not mean either student knows more, that is why class rank is important not GPA.

I point out these things for pre-pods and other pod students. It would be to your benefit next year to push for admissions reforms at TUSPM. Make the leadership become proactive not reactive. I felt that one of the biggest weaknesses at DMU was research. I created a research club, a research day, a poster competition, and increased awareness within the students, faculty, and alumni. If you see a weakness, work to correct it.

 

[krabmas]

Another question, PM me if you'd prefer.

What is the benefit DMU has in having classes with DO students over Temple having classes taught by the same MD professors and having the same tests?
It seems like the only difference is having the students themselves physically in the same room for the lecture and I don't see the great benefit of that...however, I've never had a med school lecture.

I have heard that since the MD profs have to travel to the pod campus for 1 lecture at a time, sometimes they do not show up.

At NYCPM we have the same profs as NY medical college and mount sinai school of medicine... there is no garuntee that the classes are the same or that the tests are the same. The profs may say it, but it is hard to believe sometimes.

And if the classes and tests are the same for temple MD and DPM why would the profs want to give the same exact classes twice? The pods and MD students could surely meet in the same place for the few same lectures.