What does it take to match into a program like Hopkins/Mass Gen/Columbia?

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pandoraone

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Hey,

I am very interested in EM and I know the field is getting more and more competitive each year. I am interested in doing my residency on the east coast, preferably at one of the three programs (Columbia, Mass Gen, or JHU).

In order to be competitive and have a chance to match in those fields, what do I need to have/do to be successful? Should I do research in EM and get papers (if so, how many)? What would be a good step one score to shoot for?

Thanks

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Because the person has absolutely no idea what makes a good EM program and is just tossing out well-known hospitals. Usual SDN nonsense.
 
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Why those 3? It sounds to me like that's the list of if you asked a random person on the street what the top 3 hospitals in the country are. There are a lot of fantastic EM programs in hospitals that most people have never heard of.

Not there is anything wrong with these three, but I would caution about making a "dream list" before you've really looked at places. Much better to go into the process saying "I want to interview at these 15 places based on location, family, etc. and then pick my top three from there."
 
Me and my SO use this same SDN account (she is derm, I am interested in EM). As for those three: I went to undergrad in Baltimore and my family is from Boston. I wanted to go to those cities and those are the best known hospitals in their respective cities so I wanted to shoot for the top, knowing if I fell I would still be fine.
 
Me and my SO use this same SDN account (she is derm, I am interested in EM). As for those three: I went to undergrad in Baltimore and my family is from Boston. I wanted to go to those cities and those are the best known hospitals in their respective cities so I wanted to shoot for the top, knowing if I fell I would still be fine.

Just do the best you can Good Board scores, good letters, Honors in your rotations.....btw, I would say UMD and Bellevue both have better EM "reputations" then JHU and Columbia respectively.
 
Because the person has absolutely no idea what makes a good EM program and is just tossing out well-known hospitals. Usual SDN nonsense.

Yep.

OP what's with all the TTT programs? why not shoot for the stars?

/sarcasm
 
Hey,

I am very interested in EM and I know the field is getting more and more competitive each year. I am interested in doing my residency on the east coast, preferably at one of the three programs (Columbia, Mass Gen, or JHU).

The three programs? That is some awfully odd verbiage. With the possible exception of the HAEMR programs, I'd say you didn't even get the "top" program for EM in the three cities. But if your SO is going into derm it doesn't really matter where you match since you can retire as soon as their practice is established.
 
The three programs? That is some awfully odd verbiage. With the possible exception of the HAEMR programs, I'd say you didn't even get the "top" program for EM in the three cities. But if your SO is going into derm it doesn't really matter where you match since you can retire as soon as their practice is established.

Haaahahaha..

What are the HAEMR programs ? Not heard of this but for that one poster on here awhile back whose username was 'HAEMRhead".
 
Me and my SO use this same SDN account (she is derm, I am interested in EM). As for those three: I went to undergrad in Baltimore and my family is from Boston. I wanted to go to those cities and those are the best known hospitals in their respective cities so I wanted to shoot for the top, knowing if I fell I would still be fine.

As others have said, you're not really shooting for the top programs if you are applying to those. None of them have a a special reputation in the field at all. I don't know about Boston Cities, but I would consider several other programs to be on equal footing than Columbia, and if I had to pick the program in Baltimore with "THE reputation", it would be UMD which is where Shock Trauma is. Unfortunately, EM is very different from other fields due to the initial difficulty in establishing our specialty, so the big names in medicine just don't really apply to us.
 
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Can anyone answer the original question? My significant other asked me today try to focus on these as well since he wants to open a new business in the Columbia, Maryland area. I checked out the John Hopkins age for EM residents, and it seemed like having a masters or phd helped as well as coming from an Ivy League school. While I have the MBA I'm not from a top 30 school and I'm actually not really interested in research. In do like the John Hopkins program because the four year program where PGY 4 could be used to specialize in management......whereas otherwise i prefer not to forgoe potential income for a purposeless extra residency year.
 
Can anyone answer the original question? My significant other asked me today try to focus on these as well since he wants to open a new business in the Columbia, Maryland area. I checked out the John Hopkins age for EM residents, and it seemed like having a masters or phd helped as well as coming from an Ivy League school. While I have the MBA I'm not from a top 30 school and I'm actually not really interested in research. In do like the John Hopkins program because the four year program where PGY 4 could be used to specialize in management......whereas otherwise i prefer not to forgoe potential income for a purposeless extra residency year.

I was offered an interview at Hopkins and BWH/MGH for EM this cycle, but was not offered an interview at NY Pres. I do not have a PhD or masters. I went to state school for undergrad and a relatively new (read: not prestigious) state school for med school. I had a high step 1 (by normal people standards, probably not by SDN standards), a very high step 2 and great grades. I was told I had very strong letters, but none were from an EM residency (read: no real SLORS). I had a couple poster presentations and 1 textbook chapter pub, but all in a different field.

You definitely don't need to go to a top 40 med school, have a graduate degree/year(s) off for research, score a 260/260, complete several externships and get SLORS from top programs to get interviews at any of those programs. Heck, you don't need those things to get an interview at ANY EM program. EM is getting much more competitive, but it's not Radonc/derm/ortho/whatever. If you think you want to go there for residency, doing an externship would be your best bet. Realize that there is some randomness to applications and you may not get several interviews you were expecting. 2 of the interviews I didn't get were on my "backup/only interview here if i end up with <12 interview offers list" and my advisor said he believes I didn't get the NYP interview because I've always lived in the south, have no ties to NYC and didn't rotate anywhere outside of my school. Honestly, I had never been to NYC and applied to a couple programs there so I could justify a vacation over Christmas with my wife. Turns out they were smart in not interviewing me, I hated NYC and ranked the two NYC programs at which I interviewed last.

Personally, I don't know why you would want to do a 4th year of residency specializing in management when you could just as easily do a fellowship in admin, or, since you already have an MBA, simply try to focus on learning practice management while in residency then take a job that will let you work your way up in EM admin. Seems like taking a big pay cut for a marginal added benefit in your case.

As far as the "Columbia" area, there are plenty of other EM residencies in the NYC area.
 
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Yeah I was gonna say...none of these are the top anything for EM...not that they're bad, or have bad reputations by any means- but even within their cities they're arguably not the best (I like UMass more than the big H myself for EM. Just a stronger department within the hospital as far as I can tell).

Anyways, good news is that because they're not actually the "top" programs you probably don't need to cure cancer to get interviews there. They're definitely on the academic side so research/ coming from a more academic background may be helpful, but that's about the only advice I have. Hey, live and let live, if you'd rather go to JHU than UMD that's your call.
 
Can't speak for Harvard or JHU, but Columbia is not respected in the NYC area. Some of the top around here are Kings County, Maimonides, St. Lukes, and North Shore/LIJ if you widen the net. Columbia is not even a stand alone department; it falls under surgery. And as others have said, going to a 4-year program just for the sake of doing some management training is a $200,000 mistake.
 
I interviewed at MGH/BWH and BID. I come from a state school in the SE, but I do think my application (scores, grades, letters, activities) are above the average, which may have helped land these two places. Great residency training (from what I could tell), cool people, and a very nice city to live in. In the end, I ranked them 8 and 10 (BID then MGH) due to COL in the area.

PS. Didn't apply to Maryland, JHU, or any NY schools.
 
Can't speak for Harvard or JHU, but Columbia is not respected in the NYC area. Some of the top around here are Kings County, Maimonides, St. Lukes, and North Shore/LIJ if you widen the net. Columbia is not even a stand alone department; it falls under surgery. And as others have said, going to a 4-year program just for the sake of doing some management training is a $200,000 mistake.

Deuist where are you a resident at and are you in a combined program? Feel free to PM if not comfy posting.
 
Can't speak for Harvard or JHU, but Columbia is not respected in the NYC area. Some of the top around here are Kings County, Maimonides, St. Lukes, and North Shore/LIJ if you widen the net. Columbia is not even a stand alone department; it falls under surgery. And as others have said, going to a 4-year program just for the sake of doing some management training is a $200,000 mistake.

I completely agree. I told my fianc&#233; that the opportunity cost was easily $200K but since we have a contact at JHU he's pushing for it. I spaced on the fact that U of Maryland has a program. I'm going to look into that program in more detail, glad it was brought to my attention. Considering I am not a fan of research, JHU probably wouldn't be the best setting for me.
 
I completely agree. I told my fiancé that the opportunity cost was easily $200K but since we have a contact at JHU he's pushing for it. I spaced on the fact that U of Maryland has a program. I'm going to look into that program in more detail, glad it was brought to my attention. Considering I am not a fan of research, JHU probably wouldn't be the best setting for me.

especially considering that UMD is generally considered the better program...not that there's anything really negative about JHU. Research doesn't matter though. you have to do one research project regardless to graduate from an EM residency.

In NYC, Mt. Sinai, NYU/Bellevue, St. Luke's, SUNY Downstate are among the best reputations (at least as of 2 years ago, IMO Mt. Sinai had the best NYC residency program). LIJ, North Shore and Stony Brook are all very good, but they're all Long Island. LIJ and Northshore are at least commuting distance. The truth is though that there are only a couple of "bad" programs in the area

Can't speak for the DO residencies
 
Can't speak for Harvard or JHU, but Columbia is not respected in the NYC area. Some of the top around here are Kings County, Maimonides, St. Lukes, and North Shore/LIJ if you widen the net. Columbia is not even a stand alone department; it falls under surgery. And as others have said, going to a 4-year program just for the sake of doing some management training is a $200,000 mistake.

I made more than 200K during my fourth year of EM residency; and have stepped into admin roles 18 months out of residency. I paid my school loans off during fourth year of residency.

Four year programs are not all bad, and saying its a monetary mistake is sometimes a HUGE myth...

Going to a four year program is one of the best decisions I have made in my life, both financially and career wise. YMMV...
 
I made more than 200K during my fourth year of EM residency; and have stepped into admin roles 18 months out of residency. I paid my school loans off during fourth year of residency.

Four year programs are not all bad, and saying its a monetary mistake is sometimes a HUGE myth...

Going to a four year program is one of the best decisions I have made in my life, both financially and career wise. YMMV...

I think you may be in the minority. I have yet to speak to anyone who is happy to have done the 4 year residency. Like it has been said before, it makes much more academic sense to simply do a fellowship after a three year program and then you come out double boarded and still have than extra year of experience (our fellows are moonlighting fiends).
 
I made more than 200K during my fourth year of EM residency; and have stepped into admin roles 18 months out of residency. I paid my school loans off during fourth year of residency.

Four year programs are not all bad, and saying its a monetary mistake is sometimes a HUGE myth...

Going to a four year program is one of the best decisions I have made in my life, both financially and career wise. YMMV...

I don't view a 4 year program as a "mistake" by any means if you have a specific reason for wanting to go to one. That said, the three programs in question are not the kind of places that will allow you to make 200k in the fourth year.

MGH/BWH and NYP either don't allow moonlighting or are only cool with it on a limited scale (can't remember which one as interview season details are starting to fade). IIRC, Hopkins only recently started to allow moonlighting and it didn't seem to be too promoted when I interviewed there. They only allow it at urgent cares in the 4th year. With their laxed 4th year schedule you might be able to make some bank...but I'd be surprised if it was on the order of 200k.
 
Going to a four year program is one of the best decisions I have made in my life

+1

I have yet to speak to anyone who is happy to have done the 4 year residency.

We should talk then, I would welcome the opportunity to broaden your world view...:thumbup:


To the OP: The places you mention are all fine programs. If you are really interested in EM I suggest talking to the PD at your home program, or a trusted and well informed mentor, about your EM interests, career goals, family obligations, etc., to come up with a strategy for approaching the match. As has been said, EM has become more competitive, but it remains reasonably approachable for many medical students.

Good luck,
iride
 
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