What does this mean for new ogy1s?
- Thread starter Swampurt
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Will likely be struck down by the courts.
Nothing to do now but submit all paperwork asap and wait.
Nothing to do now but submit all paperwork asap and wait.
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It’s also been reported in various news outlets that this won’t affect healthcare workers. Politico said that functionally as written this executive order won’t really change how things have been handled since he declared a national state of emergency; many of the things he’s proposing have already been done, so I kind of suspect this is just for the flashy headline.
Ultimately who knows what exactly he means, we would all be speculating. As mentioned above just get your paperwork in ASAP.
Ultimately who knows what exactly he means, we would all be speculating. As mentioned above just get your paperwork in ASAP.
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Likely there will be mass confusion on enforcement just like last time. But like others have said, nothing you can do but do the paperwork and wait for it to shake out.
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There may be an injunction by a federal circuit court judge, but there is broad latitude within the constitution for the executive branch during a national emergency (all 50 states are now under federal national emergency). President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War to suppress Confederate espionage sabotaging the Union's war effort.
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How kind of you.
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I understood what you meant.
NYT Says Trump's Immigration Suspension Includes Visa Workers
President Trump's temporary suspension of the immigrant inflow includes the routine inflow of non-immigrant visa workers, according to...
www.breitbart.com
Trump Plans to Suspend Immigration to U.S. (Published 2020)
The president portrayed the measure, his most wide-ranging attempt yet to seal off the country from the world, as a bid to save Americans’ jobs amid the coronavirus pandemic.
Time for plan B.
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What on earth are your talking out? The breitbart article specifically mentions that foreign doctors scheduled to arrive in June would be exempt. Sounds like FMGs who are starting residency to me.NYT Says Trump's Immigration Suspension Includes Visa Workers
President Trump's temporary suspension of the immigrant inflow includes the routine inflow of non-immigrant visa workers, according to...Trump Plans to Suspend Immigration to U.S. (Published 2020)
The president portrayed the measure, his most wide-ranging attempt yet to seal off the country from the world, as a bid to save Americans’ jobs amid the coronavirus pandemic.www.nytimes.com
Time for plan B.
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I predict many, many spots will open as non-US IMGs from place like India, middle east, etc are SOL with coming here. Hopefully this increases employment in Americans from stateside and foreign schools. The fact that there can be 1000s of alien doctors here without even a green card taking tax funded residency spots while American citizens are out of work is absolutely disgusting.
One important point though- all unmatched Americans need to hope the pandemic effects last well into the summer. If that happens, then I would say the above scenario is a near certainty. Especially when there are qualified Americans available to fill the position ASAP.
I have seen a number of posts from other members actively supporting the idea of continuing the practice of letting in these foreign doctors into the system. I seriously wonder if they are aware of the >10% unemployment rate in this country and the number of Americans who go unmatched each year. It is one thing to go unmatched because there are a fixed number of citizens applying for the same job. But to think that the reason is due to them handing out their positions to a bunch of sketchy immigrants who barely speak English AND probably already have jobs in their home country is absolutely sickening.
One important point though- all unmatched Americans need to hope the pandemic effects last well into the summer. If that happens, then I would say the above scenario is a near certainty. Especially when there are qualified Americans available to fill the position ASAP.
I have seen a number of posts from other members actively supporting the idea of continuing the practice of letting in these foreign doctors into the system. I seriously wonder if they are aware of the >10% unemployment rate in this country and the number of Americans who go unmatched each year. It is one thing to go unmatched because there are a fixed number of citizens applying for the same job. But to think that the reason is due to them handing out their positions to a bunch of sketchy immigrants who barely speak English AND probably already have jobs in their home country is absolutely sickening.
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Sorry to inform you, but those "alien" doctors have been found to be better qualified than the unmatched American citizens.
And anyone who wishes for this pandemic to last longer? Yeah, they aren't friends to the American people.
Snowflake behavior I detect? Seems to be that you prefer IMGs than AMGs
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I would beg to differ. Most can hardly speak English and spent several years memorizing UWorld to get an inflated step score (which is a basic competency exam). They are certainly not more qualified and even if they were, they have no right or purpose to be here in the first place. Keeping Americans employed is a far more important priority. I wonder if healthcare systems in other countries would allow me to take one of their training spots instead of one of their own citizens. I have a hunch that wouldn't happen.
Seriously though-have you worked with these non-US IMGs before? If you did I don't think you would blindly support them. They have horrible underlying motives for being here (usually money) and many I've worked with plan to leave move back to whatever third world country they came from after extracting enough money from our system.
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Apparently at least one program director disagreed with you. Take it up with them. You have no right to a US residency just by virtue of having US citizenship - have to actually earn it.
No.
I'm an AMG. As is my wife. As will be my brother in a few years.
My parents are IMGs.
Have plenty of friends that are both.
Don't really prefer either... But I do prefer matched people to unmatched ones.
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If you are certified based on your exams-then yes, I would say you automatically have more of a right to a residency than anyone who does not have a US passport.
Any spots that remain (if any) can then be filled by non-Americans in a separate match/scramble. If more attention were to be brought to this issue on a national scale, changes would be made very quickly. Hopefully, it's one good thing that can come out of this whole pandemic.
NYT Says Trump's Immigration Suspension Includes Visa Workers
President Trump's temporary suspension of the immigrant inflow includes the routine inflow of non-immigrant visa workers, according to...Trump Plans to Suspend Immigration to U.S. (Published 2020)
The president portrayed the measure, his most wide-ranging attempt yet to seal off the country from the world, as a bid to save Americans’ jobs amid the coronavirus pandemic.
Time for plan B.
What Does Trump’s Immigration Order Mean For International Physicians?
By Robert McLean, MD, MACPPresident, American College of Physicians The American College of ...
physiciansnews.com
I'm going to say again. Time for a plan B.
D
deleted480308
I like money too, not going to fault an img for it
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Well glad to see you support your fellow Americans going unemployed. Even if it is only a minority of American graduates (recent estimates suggest 4%), it is too much. If even 1 American who passed his boards gets stepped over to let in some foreigner, that is a problem to me.
Congress Sidelines U.S. Physicians ...
One of your neighbors posted in Politics & Government. Click through to read what they have to say. (The views expressed in this post are the author’s own.)
Why not help unmatched AMGs (Caribbean AMGs) too?
D
deleted480308
There is pretty strong bias towards US grads, if one doesn’t match there is a reason that doesn’t get solved by turning down a more qualified person because of where they graduated. Any red flag free US grad can match
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Not true. The bias is there but it is very slight in the case of USIMGs. I just graduated from a Caribbean school. I was lucky to match. Many of my classmates weren't. And most of them had no standard red flags (step failures, professionalism issues, etc). But even if they did, what could be a bigger red flag than not being a citizen and not having any US clinical exposure?
Simply put-any foreign trained MD makes a subpar doctor. But an American citizen should take complete precedence over someone who does not. I really don't see the issue with this logic. Say there is some community hospital out in Arkansas that has a training program. I don't know what circumstance makes it more appropriate to accept a candidate from Paraguay over a local of that community who is likely to actually contribute to the healthcare shortage in that part of the country. But alas, go look at the residency profiles of primary care community hospitals in places like this and they are filled with graduates of places like the University of Calcutta and Beijing governmental medical university.
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deleted480308
I said US grads (as in the school they went to), I give no credence to someone’s nationality in this discussion
Think about this for a minute. I've noticed a lot of posts from unmatched american medical graduates posting their stats and hoping a lurking program director will notice their application and consider them for a spot. Former residents who had their contracts terminated...."you have no chance in medicine again." Advice from us professionals range from chastising the individual saying "there is no change" to "try again next year....you might have a shot" and "consider medical jobs to build your CV."
You have an untapped population willing to work again and yet we are dismissing them because of someone more qualified. Why not open more spots to accommodate this population?
You have an untapped population willing to work again and yet we are dismissing them because of someone more qualified. Why not open more spots to accommodate this population?
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deleted480308
Why would you put quotes around “more qualified” as a way to imply they weren’t determined to literally be more qualified by the program director that has to train them?
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Well you've got me, that article clearly states that FMGs are included in the travel ban... oh wait, it says "It is not yet clear whether international medical graduates (IMGs) and other foreign born physicians would be included in such a ban"What Does Trump’s Immigration Order Mean For International Physicians?
By Robert McLean, MD, MACPPresident, American College of Physicians The American College of ...
I'm going to say again. Time for a plan B.
I get that y'all have your soapbox and you're taking this opportunity to beat this dead horse. It could well be that the executive order is going to be a major problem for FMGs. But there's no credible reporting confirming that, so you're just speculating based on your hopes.
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Well you should put importance on nationality. Historically you would be called a traitor for the stance you are taking.
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And you are called a xenophobe.
D
deleted480308
yeah, if wanting to hire the brightest and most qualified doctors makes me a traitor, I’m cool with label
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Saying "it is not clear" sounds like a politically correct way to say non-US IMGs are screwed. Obviously they aren't going to say that right now to delay any sort of panic/uproar, but judging by the direction things are going, I don't see any way that non-essential wannabe doctors from foreign countries gets marked as exemptions. As the situation stands right now, if we in the US already actually start in July on time, I would be surprised. Let alone thousands of people abroad who offer little to the medical situation here other than being likely vectors to spread coronavirus.
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Spoiler alert - all July 1 interns have (comparatively) little to offer the medical situation. That is why they are interns. Doesn't matter where they are from. All interns start out as idiots. (Granted there is a scale of idiotness.)
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You're interpreting it that way because you want to interpret it that way. I have read other sources that directly refute that interpretation:
Playbook
And Antony Blinken is on his fifth visit to the Middle East since Oct. 7th.
www.politico.com
I frankly don't care one way or the other that badly, but again you're projecting your preferred outcome onto the situation. Trump tweets a lot of random things that are often short on details.
Suck it up you baby. There are tons of foreign trained physicians who much more competent than american medical graduates. Not every foreign IMG cannot speak english that is the most biased untrue statement I have ever heard. What about all the foreign trained Canadian IMGs, some of which make up 20% of major international schools in Ireland, Australia and the Caribbean?. If you are a US medical graduate and you cannot get a residency then there is clearly a reason for that...because there is an inherent bias to taking US grads anyways...At the end of the day there is no way this ban is going to include incoming J1 visa holders or any current J1 visa holders. Half the residency programs in NY are IMGs and the system would collapse. The spots should be given to the best available candidates ...
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Canadian IMGs are even more dangerous to the system since 90% want to return to Canada and take their usefulness to our healthcare system with them.
This for who posted this above
Suck it up you baby. There are tons of foreign trained physicians who much more competent than american medical graduates. Not every foreign IMG cannot speak english that is the most biased untrue statement I have ever heard. What about all the foreign trained Canadian IMGs, some of which make up 20% of major international schools in Ireland, Australia and the Caribbean?. If you are a US medical graduate and you cannot get a residency then there is clearly a reason for that...because there is an inherent bias to taking US grads anyways...At the end of the day there is no way this ban is going to include incoming J1 visa holders or any current J1 visa holders. Half the residency programs in NY are IMGs and the system would collapse. The spots should be given to the best available candidates ...
Which is why you should come up with plan B if it happens. I say ... 50/50 shot at this point
Suck it up you baby. There are tons of foreign trained physicians who much more competent than american medical graduates. Not every foreign IMG cannot speak english that is the most biased untrue statement I have ever heard. What about all the foreign trained Canadian IMGs, some of which make up 20% of major international schools in Ireland, Australia and the Caribbean?. If you are a US medical graduate and you cannot get a residency then there is clearly a reason for that...because there is an inherent bias to taking US grads anyways...At the end of the day there is no way this ban is going to include incoming J1 visa holders or any current J1 visa holders. Half the residency programs in NY are IMGs and the system would collapse. The spots should be given to the best available candidates ...
Which is why you should come up with plan B if it happens. I say ... 50/50 shot at this point
The vast majority of Canadian IMGs who do their residency in the US actually stay there, so you can make up your 90% figure all you want that's blatantly not true. Many just get a J1 waiver and green card and stay
D
deleted480308
Some candidates are worse than a vacant spot
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Not seeing the point of this thread, it will only spiral down.
Closing!
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Closing!
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