What happens if you don't match?

[doorner]

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I was looking at match percentages for US MD, US DO, and Carib MD programs. What happens to those students who don't match into a residency? They're obviously still doctors... but are they unemployed and $200k in debt? What would their next steps be?

 

[toby08]

I believe most individuals in this situation spend a year building their credentials (research), then reapply to the same or a less competitive residency.

 

[CsHead]

I was looking at match percentages for US MD, US DO, and Carib MD programs. What happens to those students who don't match into a residency? They're obviously still doctors... but are they unemployed and $200k in debt? What would their next steps be?

Most everything you don't even need to know yet, is here.. on the Scramble

 

[BABSstudent]

I was looking at match percentages for US MD, US DO, and Carib MD programs. What happens to those students who don't match into a residency? They're obviously still doctors... but are they unemployed and $200k in debt? What would their next steps be?

Become one of the doctors on tv that says, "I recommend this pill because I am a doctor."

Serious answer is that they fix what was wrong, build better credentials or lower their dreams of only being a dermatologist and apply for "lower" residencies.

 

[circulus vitios]

.........................

 

[NickNaylor]

1) Scramble (as CsHead mentioned) - basically you literally "scramble" to get an unfilled slot, a list of which is publically available at a specific day and time shortly following the match

2) Do a research fellowship or otherwise something productive for a year and reapply

3) Do something else other than becoming a physician (teaching, consulting, etc.) and forgo licensure and practicing medicine

 

[Law2Doc]

1) Scramble (as CsHead mentioned) - basically you literally "scramble" to get an unfilled slot, a list of which is publically available at a specific day and time shortly following the match

2) Do a research fellowship or otherwise something productive for a year and reapply

3) Do something else other than becoming a physician (teaching, consulting, etc.) and forgo licensure and practicing medicine

In recent years, the scramble has been replaced by SOAP, which is basically a second round of the match.

 

[Law2Doc]

...They're obviously still doctors...

not really. You aren't a doctor until you are licensed, which means you have complete all three sections of the Step exams, and at least a year of residency. You have an MD, which, without being licensed, is meaningless.

 

[NickNaylor]

no really. You aren't a doctor until you are licensed, which means you have complete all three sections of the Step exams, and at least a year of residency. You have an MD, which, without being licensed, is meaningless.

"But I'm really good at memorizing things!"

(sent from my phone)

 

[Planes2Doc]

You can scramble, and usually into a pretty undesirable residency. If you never end up matching, you can go back into the workforce. But, like law2doc said, having an MD or DO without a license is worthless.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Become one of the doctors on tv that says, "I recommend this pill because I am a doctor."

Serious answer is that they fix what was wrong, build better credentials or lower their dreams of only being a dermatologist and apply for "lower" residencies.

The day I learned that Dr. Jarvik wasn't an actual physician was the day I lost my faith in Lipitor.

 

[JoshuaGuit]

I have a relatively dumb question, however I've never been able to find an answer. Those physicians that you see working at a pharma company without a PhD (or even with one), do they always go through residency before taking the job or are the credentials alone good enough for that occupation?

 

[Law2Doc]

I have a relatively dumb question, however I've never been able to find an answer. Those physicians that you see working at a pharma company without a PhD (or even with one), do they always go through residency before taking the job or are the credentials alone good enough for that occupation?

There arent hard and fast rules. But generally pharmaceutical companies only want people with a bit of work experience first. You tend not to see people recruited out if med school to big pharma.

 

[BlackSwan]

The day I learned that Dr. Jarvik wasn't an actual physician was the day I lost my faith in Lipitor.

😕 Decisions by Pfizer's marketing team made you lose trust in the most widely used statin backed by decades of research? Okay.

 

[Planes2Doc]

😕 Decisions by Pfizer's marketing team made you lose trust in the most widely used statin backed by decades of research? Okay.

Whoops I was kidding. Probably not obvious on here. I learned about that in one of my classes, and then saw how Pfizer pulled the ads because of whatever reasons. I couldn't care less.

 

[SilverCat]

I was looking at match percentages for US MD, US DO, and Carib MD programs. What happens to those students who don't match into a residency? They're obviously still doctors... but are they unemployed and $200k in debt? What would their next steps be?

I've heard some truly frightening stories of IMGs who can't match and end up working as janitors and waiters. I've heard of IMGs failing the ECFMG after years of study (literally from morning to evening), and looking into nursing programs. The lesson here-- never, ever go Carib.

The majority of US grads match, unless there is some problemwith STEP scores, grades, etc.

 

[MedPR]

Good to know I'm not the most neurotic 🙂

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[MedPR]

I've heard some truly frightening stories of IMGs who can't match and end up working as janitors and waiters. I've heard of IMGs failing the ECFMG after years of study (literally from morning to evening), and looking into nursing programs. The lesson here-- never, ever go Carib.

The majority of US grads match, unless there is some problemwith STEP scores, grades, etc.

I truly find it hard to believe that a college grad ends up a janitor.

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[Planes2Doc]

I truly find it hard to believe that a college grad ends up a janitor.

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There was a CNN article that was popular on here of an FMG who worked as a waiter and surgical tech I think.

 

[MedPR]

There was a CNN article that was popular on here of an FMG who worked as a waiter and surgical tech I think.

Maybe you guys will disagree, but surg tech/waiter are a bit "better" than janitor.

But yeah, if you can't math ever you really are screwed unless you have some other job skill (probably only relevant for non trads).

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[Planes2Doc]

Maybe you guys will disagree, but surg tech/waiter are a bit "better" than janitor.

But yeah, if you can't math ever you really are screwed unless you have some other job skill (probably only relevant for non trads).

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The point is that it's very far from the goal. In fact, waiter and surgical tech will still probably earn less than some entry-level jobs out of college. I used to work with a guy who was in investment banking. One of his coworkers supposedly dropped out of the Yale School of Medicine to pursue investment banking at Citi. Now that seems a bit more reasonable...

 

[Brachyury]

If you apply for a competitive specialty, such as radonc or derm, you should at least be able to match at a prelim program on your list

 

[lobo.solo]

Like people said you scramble!

 

[HughMyron]

What happens?

The deans of your medical school pool their money, go into the criminal underworld, and hire assassins to "dispose" of you before graduation.

That way, you don't mess up their stats.

 

[Bacchus]

What happens?

The deans of your medical school pool their money, go into the criminal underworld, and hire assassins to "dispose" of you before graduation.

That way, you don't mess up their stats.

I heard they hire Joseph Gordon Levitt...

 

[HughMyron]

I heard they hire Joseph Gordon Levitt...

Wait, that's right! They kill the premed you so you never go to medical school in the first place!

 

[FrontierPsych]

If you apply for a competitive specialty, such as radonc or derm, you should at least be able to match at a prelim program on your list

Can you explain to me how that works? If you match into the prelim program do you go through the match again next year for a radonc or derm position?

 

[mvenus929]

Can you explain to me how that works? If you match into the prelim program do you go through the match again next year for a radonc or derm position?

Yup.

But at least by the end of your prelim year, you'll be eligible for licensure, which opens things up for you in the workforce.

 

[Law2Doc]

Yup.

But at least by the end of your prelim year, you'll be eligible for licensure, which opens things up for you in the workforce.

Not really. You do not want to end up a non board eligible general practitioner. Job opportunities aren't plentiful. Mostly temp moonlighting lower paying urgent care stuff. If you read the Gen res board, it's full of people who did just enough residency to get licensed and now are desperate to get back into something categorical, anything.

If you have the grades that rad onc or derm are even real considerations, and your focus is just to do enough to get licensed, you probably have a few cards short of a deck. Sorry but this isn't a realistic game plan. You either enter the match and match, or scramble/SOAP, even if its into your second choice residency path, or you take time to do more specialty specific research and networking and try again. Doing a prelim in lieu of this IMHO is sort of a sucker move because you won't really have any time to interview. And all too often the folks who do this end up in something categorical where they have to redo intern year anyhow, so they would have been better off "wasting" a cycle.

But I think this is too much info for preallo. 99.0% of the folks on this thread won't be applying for rad onc or derm. Most who go to US med schools will match into something realistic based on their credentials and won't ever face these issues.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I recently heard of something called the "Suicide Match," where someone only applies to a single place because they are dead set on it. It might boost their chances, but as the name implies, can be ridiculously risky. Then again, think of the risk/reward relationship. Also, people who are extremely qualified can probably get one of the more desirable residencies when they scramble.

 

[Law2Doc]

I recently heard of something called the "Suicide Match," where someone only applies to a single place because they are dead set on it. It might boost their chances, but as the name implies, can be ridiculously risky. Then again, think of the risk/reward relationship. Also, people who are extremely qualified can probably get one of the more desirable residencies when they scramble.

I see no way it increases their chances. It's just dumb. Programs aren't looking for someone who only applies to one place. More often they only want you because you are wanted by others too. Sort of like the high school geek who becomes popular because he dated a few popular girls.

As for the scramble/SOAP, while a few gems fall through the cracks each year, you are a fool if you count on that. You might find that the field you want filled, or that the only desirable residency in SOAP I in a geographical location you'd never move to. You are basically suggesting not to order dinner because people sometimes drop juicy table scraps. Foolishness.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I see no way it increases their chances. It's just dumb. Programs aren't looking for someone who only applies to one place. More often they only want you because you are wanted by others too. Sort of like the high school geek who becomes popular because he dated a few popular girls.

As for the scramble/SOAP, while a few gems fall through the cracks each year, you are a fool if you count on that. You might find that the field you want filled, or that the only desirable residency in SOAP I in a geographical location you'd never move to. You are basically suggesting not to order dinner because people sometimes drop juicy table scraps. Foolishness.

I agree that it's foolish. Do different residency sites see where else you've applied? If you're foolish enough to do the suicide match and the sites see that you're their only option, I guess they can at least see that whatever you say is genuine, rather than spewing out regurgitated BS. That could maybe help, but then again, I'm still nowhere near thinking about residencies. 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree that it's foolish. Do different residency sites see where else you've applied? If you're foolish enough to do the suicide match and the sites see that you're their only option, I guess they can at least see that whatever you say is genuine, rather than spewing out regurgitated BS. That could maybe help, but then again, I'm still nowhere near thinking about residencies. 🙂

No they don't see where you applied. It's a bogus story. Nobody does this.

And again, they'd rather have the guy everybody else also wanted than somebody acting desperate and foolish. Residency is about making good decisions. You don't get into one showing you make rash, ill informed decisions. Please.

 

[gyngyn]

Any Student Affairs Dean that allowed a student to do something this stupid would have to document that they strongly advised a smarter course of action. There is no advantage to this method, only risk. Any PD who knew that an applicant was doing this would seriously reconsider accepting such an applicant as it shows bad judgement.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Any Student Affairs Dean that allowed a student to do something this stupid would have to document that they strongly advised a smarter course of action. There is no advantage to this method, only risk. Any PD who knew that an applicant was doing this would seriously reconsider accepting such an applicant as it shows bad judgement.

Hmm... Then I don't know why my fellow classmate told me this. He is a pretty smart guy and his wife is an attending, so I thought what he was saying was true. Thanks for clearing it up!

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I truly find it hard to believe that a college grad ends up a janitor.

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Believe it. In the eight years since I graduated college, I've been a construction worker and a janitor. I'm currently using my European History degree as a dishwasher and delivery driver for a Chinese restaurant. I'm probably the only dishwasher they've ever had who reads a biochem textbook during breaks. A college degree, even a medical degree, is nothing but paper if it doesn't lead to real-world job prospects.

 

[group_theory]

I truly find it hard to believe that a college grad ends up a janitor.

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According to the US Dept of Labor statistics, there are 115,520 janitors who have bachelor degrees. There are over 18,000 parking lot attendants with bachelor degrees. There are over 5000 janitors with PhD, other doctorates or professional degrees.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-57544837/janitors-clerks-and-waiters-with-college-degrees/

http://gizmodo.com/5671062/there-are-5000-janitors-in-the-us-with-phds


It is a hard job. There is a multi page thread in the Pre-Osteopathic forum about deciding between janitors vs DOs vs custodians.

http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=565169

 

[mvenus929]

Not really. You do not want to end up a non board eligible general practitioner. Job opportunities aren't plentiful. Mostly temp moonlighting lower paying urgent care stuff. If you read the Gen res board, it's full of people who did just enough residency to get licensed and now are desperate to get back into something categorical, anything.

You have more opportunities as an MD with a license than as an MD without a license. I didn't mean to suggest that the world is your oyster and you have plentiful opportunities if you finish a prelim year, just that you have more opportunities in the job market. I apologize for my wording.

But yes, many who end up not matching end up taking time off for research in one form or another and apply for the match again the following year. Either way, applying non-sponsored is a bit more difficult than applying as an M4.

 

[Law2Doc]

You have more opportunities as an MD with a license than as an MD without a license. I didn't mean to suggest that the world is your oyster and you have plentiful opportunities if you finish a prelim year, just that you have more opportunities in the job market. I apologize for my wording.

But yes, many who end up not matching end up taking time off for research in one form or another and apply for the match again the following year. Either way, applying non-sponsored is a bit more difficult than applying as an M4.

Some manage to delay graduation a year -- match is in March, not at the end of fourth year. No reason you'd have to be non-sponsored.

My point was that your "more opportunities" is not really a good goal here for anyone who has any options. You want to be on a path that makes you board eligible or you are kind of hosed. So no, I don't condone the whole do a year and at least you'll get licensed approach to anyone other than the desperate IMG without many choices.