What happens if you mess up STEP I?

[Monkeymaniac]

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For MCAT, we could always retake it, and schools would consider either the highest or the average of the test scores. Do we also get a second shot for STEP I? Or are we pretty much stuck with the first score we get? since retaking it during the busy third year seems unrealistic.

 

[CuttingCorneas]

It's possible to retake the test, but this comes at a price. First, you have a very limited amount of time to re-learn the material. You can only retake the exam if you fail, which means a jump from <180 to 245 is highly impossible, given the abbreviated timeline.

Second, many residency programs do not even look at applicants who failed Step I the first time. The numbers can be found in the 2012 NRMP Program Director Survey, but I'm too lazy to look up exact numbers.

TL;DR don't fail Step I. Really, don't.

 

[siliso]

Also, you are not allowed to retake it at all unless you did fail. At my school failing would mean you'd be pulled off rotations until you pass.

 

[ArcGurren]

Also, you are not allowed to retake it at all unless you did fail. At my school failing would mean you'd be pulled off rotations until you pass.

I think you can actually take it after 7 years or something like that but that's also obviously not a feasible option

 

[Doctor D]

Step I will open or close doors for residency. Do not underestimate it. I recommend doing UWorld questions to supplement your learning in the first two years.

 

[projectlogic]

You're screwed.

 

[Michael Corleon]

Fm

 

[Noyoudinit]

You become like ArcGurren

 

[VisionaryTics]

You become like ArcGurren

You know he got a great score, right? Christ you're pathetic.

 

[ArcGurren]

You know he got a great score, right? Christ you're pathetic.

It's okay I think I have a groupie. I'm kind of flattered

 

[link2swim06]

OP, dont **** up step 1.

There are a few in my class who failed and are retaking. I couldn't imagine opening first aid again.

 

[AlexMorph]

It's arguably the most important test a doctor will take

 

[ArcGurren]

It's arguably the most important test a doctor will take

Definitely. I think Step 2 CK is becoming more important too, but Step 1 remains one of the biggest factors in being competitive for and within any particular residency.

 

[mimelim]

Definitely. I think Step 2 CK is becoming more important too, but Step 1 remains one of the biggest factors in being competitive for and within any particular residency.

Depends on the specialty. In NSGY and Vascular, nobody cares about CK.

 

[ArcGurren]

Depends on the specialty. In NSGY and Vascular, nobody cares about CK.

I've heard of it being used to rank in IM, FM, Peds (less so), and GS to some degree, but you're right.

 

[AlexMorph]

I've heard of it being used to rank in IM, FM, Peds (less so), and GS to some degree, but you're right.

Doesn't matter at all for most residencies that are not primary care oriented. It doesn't really focus on testing things that are important for future radiologists/pathologists/etc.

 

[link2swim06]

It seems like step 2 would be a more relevant predictor for almost all fields.

 

[Noyoudinit]

You know he got a great score, right? Christ you're pathetic.

I got a 255. See how easy that is.

 

[evilbooyaa]

You know he got a great score, right? Christ you're pathetic.

:troll:

 

[ArcGurren]

Doesn't matter at all for most residencies that are not primary care oriented. It doesn't really focus on testing things that are important for future radiologists/pathologists/etc.

Honestly when it comes down to it I think all of these standardized tests are BS indicators of how good clinicians anyone is; but i guess that's what we're stuck with

 

[CuttingCorneas]

I got a 255. See how easy that is.

I think the most appropriate response here is "No you dinit."

 

[Alvarez13]

I got a 255. See how easy that is.

Post it then with name blacked out. That or shut up

OP, don't mess up 1st time around. Start studying beginning of MS2 if needed and take as many practice NBMEs as possible. Do UW multiple times if needed.

 

[Aclamity]

I got a 255. See how easy that is.

yo, seems like you haven't been here long, but expecting people to swoon over your 255 on SDN is like expecting people to swoon over your 225 in the real world.

Also I've heard that 2ck is important for EM, maybe even more so than step 1. is this true?

 

[viper930]

What happens if you mess up STEP I?

(minus the parachute, of course)

 

[gravitywave]

yo, seems like you haven't been here long, but expecting people to swoon over your 255 on SDN is like expecting people to swoon over your 225 in the real world.

Also I've heard that 2ck is important for EM, maybe even more so than step 1. is this true?

maybe at certain programs, but not according to the latest edition of the NRMP survey, which indicated that the top three factors in the EM match were letters, grades in an EM rotation, and third year grades in general. Step 1 was still rated more important than Step 2.

 

[Noyoudinit]

I don't think you guys know how to reading comprehension.

 

[deleted103644]

For MCAT, we could always retake it, and schools would consider either the highest or the average of the test scores. Do we also get a second shot for STEP I? Or are we pretty much stuck with the first score we get? since retaking it during the busy third year seems unrealistic.

Don't mess up Step 1.

You only get another shot if you fail, in which case you're already screwed.

 

[ArcGurren]

I don't think you guys know how to reading comprehension.

Oh god please don't stop

 

[HughMyron]

Honestly when it comes down to it I think all of these standardized tests are BS indicators of how good clinicians anyone is; but i guess that's what we're stuck with

Standardized tests in general are a gift, because they show you don't have to go to Harvard or Harvard Med to be an intelligent person.

 

[link2swim06]

Standardized tests in general are a gift, because they show you don't have to go to Harvard or Harvard Med to be an intelligent person.

Higher intelligence may correlate with higher scores but that is not what standardized tests measure (especially step 1).

Step 1 was never built to differentiate students by ability as the MCAT does. Step 1 is a minimum competency test, designed to ensure you know the minimum amount of medical knowledge to progress to the next stage of your training.

I have heard they are considering making it strictly pass/fail and not releasing numerical scores in the future (don't remember where I heard this).

 

[Noyoudinit]

I have heard they are considering making it strictly pass/fail and not releasing numerical scores in the future (don't remember where I heard this).

That would never happen. Its one of the main factors on how ROADS and other highly competitive residencies judge whether they want you into their program. 80% of their criteria comes from Step 1, they wouldn't get rid of its quantitative component.

 

[Wordead]

That would never happen. Its one of the main factors on how ROADS and other highly competitive residencies judge whether they want you into their program. 80% of their criteria comes from Step 1, they wouldn't get rid of its quantitative component.

Dental schools did.

 

[CaptainSSO]

Higher intelligence may correlate with higher scores but that is not what standardized tests measure (especially step 1).

Step 1 was never built to differentiate students by ability as the MCAT does. Step 1 is a minimum competency test, designed to ensure you know the minimum amount of medical knowledge to progress to the next stage of your training.

I have heard they are considering making it strictly pass/fail and not releasing numerical scores in the future (don't remember where I heard this).

People say this all the time, but I don't think that actually has any practical meaning. OK, it wasn't "built to" measure by ability, but the fact remains the more you know an the more questions you answer the higher your score will be.

 

[ArcGurren]

People say this all the time, but I don't think that actually has any practical meaning. OK, it wasn't "built to" measure by ability, but the fact remains the more you know an the more questions you answer the higher your score will be.

Or you had a test where you happened to know more of the questions. Or you have an eidetic memory. Neither of which is necessarily a mark of being a good clinician.

 

[link2swim06]

People say this all the time, but I don't think that actually has any practical meaning. OK, it wasn't "built to" measure by ability, but the fact remains the more you know an the more questions you answer the higher your score will be.

When it comes down to it there a few things I think we can all agree on:

1. You can never know everything/ be update on everything in medicine.
2. At a certain point, knowing more "off the top of your head" will unlikely make you a better physician.
3. At a certain point, the ability to efficiently get information from publications and consultants will be superior to "what you memorized."

I agree a higher step 1 score means you memorized more material but my point is should an applicant with a 250 be "superior" to an applicant that has a 230?

 

[peteB]

I agree a higher step 1 score means you memorized more material but my point is should an applicant with a 250 be "superior" to an applicant that has a 230?

I don't think so. I think the emphasis put on Step 1 scores is kind of absurd. But I guess there's no better way as of now.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I don't think so. I think the emphasis put on Step 1 scores is kind of absurd. But I guess there's no better way as of now.

I think it's especially absurd considering the fact that you can't retake it even one time if you pass the first time. One bad day or one crappy test can basically keep you from getting into a whole set of residencies.

 

[StIGMA]

I agree a higher step 1 score means you memorized more material but my point is should an applicant with a 250 be "superior" to an applicant that has a 230?

Not with every one on one comparison, but in aggregate 250 applicants will be superior to 230 applicants. Step 1 is not just memorization, but also critical thinking, decisiveness, and application of concepts. And that is what residencies bet on (on average, a 250 applicant is superior). It should be clear that the score has value in selecting residents, as it is so commonly used. This metric is quite imperfect, so residencies heavily use personal info and an interview to see if you, specifically, are an 'inferior' 250 (poor clinical grades, evals, whatever else) or a 'superior' 230.

 

[link2swim06]

Not with every one on one comparison, but in aggregate 250 applicants will be superior to 230 applicants. Step 1 is not just memorization, but also critical thinking, decisiveness, and application of concepts. And that is what residencies bet on (on average, a 250 applicant is superior). It should be clear that the score has value in selecting residents, as it is so commonly used. This metric is quite imperfect, so residencies heavily use personal info and an interview to see if you, specifically, are an 'inferior' 250 (poor clinical grades, evals, whatever else) or a 'superior' 230.

Maybe...but compared to the physics section of the MCAT, I felt step 1 was all about "what you knew" not what you could apply. The application was something a high school student could reason through if they had knowledge base.

Here is my question...has any published research actually shown a 250 vs a 230 performs better as a resident/in clinic?

You assert it has value, but is that based on actual hard evidence or because that is the only thing they have to sort through thousands of applicants?

 

[Wordead]

Maybe...but compared to the physics section of the MCAT, I felt step 1 was all about "what you knew" not what you could apply. The application was something a high school student could reason through if they had knowledge base.

Here is my question...has any published research actually shown a 250 vs a 230 performs better as a resident/in clinic?

You assert it has value, but is that based on actual hard evidence or because that is the only thing they have to sort through thousands of applicants?

You could apply this line of thinking to pretty much any aspect of the application process...does AOA? Do clinical grades (I really don't think there's a correlation, seriously)? Research (obviously not)? STEP1 is about as objective as you can be, all things considered. Not to mention "good clinician" means different things to different people - I doubt there'd be more than 20% agreement on any definition.

The alternative is to go back to the stupid ****ing dog and pony BS show that is med school admissions - who can do the most garbage BS to show their clinical skills and compassion.

 

[ijn]

Doesn't matter at all for most residencies that are not primary care oriented. It doesn't really focus on testing things that are important for future radiologists/pathologists/etc.

Meh. Step 2 CK seems more relevant to most specialties than the bull**** they put on STEP 1. I'll jump through whatever hoops are put in front of me, but it's silly that STEP 2 CK isn't more important than STEP 1.

 

[link2swim06]

You could apply this line of thinking to pretty much any aspect of the application process...does AOA? Do clinical grades (I really don't think there's a correlation, seriously)? Research (obviously not)? STEP1 is about as objective as you can be, all things considered. Not to mention "good clinician" means different things to different people - I doubt there'd be more than 20% agreement on any definition.

The alternative is to go back to the stupid ****ing dog and pony BS show that is med school admissions - who can do the most garbage BS to show their clinical skills and compassion.

We practice EBM but yet residents are chosen based on tradition/a whim? I only bring this up because we essentially use a licensing exam for a different purpose, aka applicant differentiation and ranking.

There are obvious objective measures which can be used to determine the quality of a physician/resident. I am not referring compassion or any b.s. like that...I am referring to pt outcomes, M&M, etc.

Also on a different note, why isn't step 2 CS a numeric score too? I never understood that.

 

[KnuxNole]

I don't think you guys know how to reading comprehension.

You are making your school look bad the more you post

 

[ijn]

We practice EBM but yet residents are chosen based on tradition/a whim?

A lot of things in the practice of medicine are done on whims and tradition.

Also on a different note, why isn't step 2 CS a numeric score too? I never understood that.

The point of CS is to screen IMGs for engrish skills, but they have to have everyone take the test so it doesn't seem raciss.

 

[link2swim06]

A lot of things in the practice of medicine are done on whims and tradition.

Very true, but that doesn't make them optimal or 'right'.

The point of CS is to screen IMGs for engrish skills, but they have to have everyone take the test so it doesn't seem raciss.

Funny, but there might be some truth in that.

 

[KnuxNole]

Don't question it, just run away with a pass 😀

 

[Wordead]

We practice EBM but yet residents are chosen based on tradition/a whim? I only bring this up because we essentially use a licensing exam for a different purpose, aka applicant differentiation and ranking.

There are obvious objective measures which can be used to determine the quality of a physician/resident. I am not referring compassion or any b.s. like that...I am referring to pt outcomes, M&M, etc.

Also on a different note, why isn't step 2 CS a numeric score too? I never understood that.

.....what? How on earth are you proposing to use pt outcomes or M&M or any other clinical criteria to judge medical students applying to residency?

 

[peteB]

Don't question it, just run away with a pass 😀

I barely passed step 1 by a few points. Sometimes I wish I had just failed so at least I could have tried again and gotten a decent score. I feel like barely passing is no better than failing, and worse in that you can't try again either.

 

[KnuxNole]

I barely passed step 1 by a few points. Sometimes I wish I had just failed so at least I could have tried again and gotten a decent score. I feel like barely passing is no better than failing, and worse in that you can't try again either.

That sentence was meant to be for CS, not for Step 1...I should have quoted that part, my bad.

 

[peteB]

That sentence was meant to be for CS, not for Step 1...I should have quoted that part, my bad.

Oh, Ok, never mind.