What Happens to Pharmacists if the Heath care bill passes tonight ?

[waterloggedfrog]

I think they're just raising taxes on people that make 250,000+, so we shouldn't have to worry about it. Unless you own your own pharmacy and it's really succesful or something like that.

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[homeslice]

I was quickly bored upon reading the posts on this thread, but while I was skimming I noticed that this is pretty much all about how much we will make as pharmacists. While I think that we should be rewarded by a decent salary for the amount of education we will receive, if you are going to pharmacy school or want to be a pharmacist solely based upon the income, you should switch majors now. This thread is making pre-pharm students sound like a bunch of careless greedy people that are only in this profession for the money.

There's probably a pretty decent amount who are. They thought they were hopping on the gravy train but they're finding out that the biscuit wheels might be about to fall off.

 

[ChulRx]

there's many problems with this bill but the biggest thing IMO is how we are letting the government make decisions instead of doctors and their patents

just like the doctors and patients are the only ones that make decisions about treatments now, right? except for all the pre-existing condition, prior authorization, etc. etc.

 

[kmoogs]

 

[rxlea]

I think they're just raising taxes on people that make 250,000+, so we shouldn't have to worry about it. Unless you own your own pharmacy and it's really succesful or something like that.

Unless you are married to someone that makes more than you do.

 

[Muangz]

Seriously?! What ever happened to serving the community and the underserved? Being a pharmacist shouldn't be about the salary, although it comes with a nice one. I highly doubt it there would even be drastic changes in taxes (unless you make more than $250K; it just means more taxes we are already paying will be directed towards health care instead of nuclear warfare). It makes me sick to read why so many people are opposed to better health care and more accessible health care when they bluff about "community service" in their pharmacy school applications.

 

[PharmOl]

Has anybody actually read the bill? Honestly?

 

[lymmys]

.

 

[litetigre]

There is nothing wrong with going to a career you love to do and make good money out of it. It is a balance between pride and greed. For the tax part, it defitely will negatively impact health care professionals. It's easy to say that pharmacists make less than 200K and will be okay. However, remember that usually people married to like-people, so a couple can exceed the 250K. And they also have equities. So no matter what people say, it is the bill of redistributing wealth. Good news is that with larger pool of risks theoritically the premium will be lower. More people will be insured and overall cost should be lowered. In summary, lower cost + more people --> more work for us + less money.

 

[PharmEXP]

A note I found interesting...

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service (of NOAA - the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration) determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating a breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food.

At the appropriate time (as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by NIST - the National Institute of Standards and Technology - and the US Naval Observatory), I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve bank.

On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to send via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the Internet (which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration) and post on FreeRepublic.COM and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the Government can't do anything right."

[I wish I could take credit for writing this.]

 

[PharmEXP]

Another good article: http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/22/he...ntributors-mark-rice.html?feed=rss_popstories

 

[PharmEXP]

I've noticed that there is a common misconception among many Americans regarding this "Gov't take over" of our health care system. First of all, there is no Universal Health Care, at least not yet. This bill doesn't have a public option. With that being said... As far as I'm concerned, the more people with health insurance, the more doctor visits, the more prescriptions that I will be filling in the future. I'm pretty sure thats a good thing for all of us current/future health care professionals. Its simple supply and demand. Of course, like anything else, the bill has some flaws, but we are heading in the right direction. 2 steps forward, one small step back. There is still much more that needs to be done. The majority of this country voted for President Obama in part because of his promise to reform our health care system, and he has done just that. 99.9% of the general population has no idea what can come out of this bill (myself included). How many of you have actually READ the bill? I sure haven't, but I'm currently in the process. All of your comments all purely speculation at this point. Nobody really has any idea WTF will come from this.

 

[kmoogs]

I've noticed that there is a common misconception among many Americans regarding this "Gov't take over" of our health care system. First of all, there is no Universal Health Care, at least not yet. This bill doesn't have a public option. With that being said... As far as I'm concerned, the more people with health insurance, the more doctor visits, the more prescriptions that I will be filling in the future. I'm pretty sure thats a good thing for all of us current/future health care professionals. Its simple supply and demand. Of course, like anything else, the bill has some flaws, but we are heading in the right direction. 2 steps forward, one small step back. There is still much more that needs to be done. The majority of this country voted for President Obama in part because of his promise to reform our health care system, and he has done just that. 99.9% of the general population has no idea what can come out of this bill (myself included). How many of you have actually READ the bill? I sure haven't, but I'm currently in the process. All of your comments all purely speculation at this point. Nobody really has any idea WTF will come from this.

States are suing the feds for the bill ... IF and thats a big if ... it goes to the SCOTUS or the new congress somehow repeals the mandatory insurance portion of the bill, the bill sets certain precedents that will pretty much stick forever (mainly insurance companies can't drop sick people and insurance companies can't deny because of pre-existing conditions). No sane politician would campaign against either of those. And with these conditions, they don't work w/o mandatory insurance for all (or people would just wait until they got sick to buy insurance and put all the insurance companies in the red).

The only solutions at that point with private insurance crashing and burning ... are for the government to step in and either expand Medicare or create some alternative to private insurance companies, most likely in the form of public option. Small insurance is going to be hurt by this bill, large insurance is profit greatly from the mandatory insurance. The demand of health insurance was already a relatively inelastic product... the new bill just worsens the situation and can allow insurance companies to raise rates and increase revenue (if they act like douches ... which is usually the case). I'm sure their marketing and accounting departments will crunch the numbers and realize that revenue will dramatically increase even if they raise rates (like the recent Blue Shield incident in California. Rates went up ~30% and Blue Shield is making record profits). The timing of the whole incident was very strange, I'm fairly certain that Blue Shield timed it right before the bill to create outrage among the public and politicians to help push the healthcare bill through (without the public even realizing what was happening).

The republicans have been checkmated in this current situation ... not much they can do at this point besides wait for mid-term elections.

 

[NSAID01]

I've noticed that there is a common misconception among many Americans regarding this "Gov't take over" of our health care system. First of all, there is no Universal Health Care, at least not yet. This bill doesn't have a public option. With that being said... As far as I'm concerned, the more people with health insurance, the more doctor visits, the more prescriptions that I will be filling in the future. I'm pretty sure thats a good thing for all of us current/future health care professionals. Its simple supply and demand. Of course, like anything else, the bill has some flaws, but we are heading in the right direction. 2 steps forward, one small step back. There is still much more that needs to be done. The majority of this country voted for President Obama in part because of his promise to reform our health care system, and he has done just that. 99.9% of the general population has no idea what can come out of this bill (myself included). How many of you have actually READ the bill? I sure haven't, but I'm currently in the process. All of your comments all purely speculation at this point. Nobody really has any idea WTF will come from this.

 

[PharmEXP]

I just noticed this post so I apologize for my re-post.

 

[Sugadarlin]

A note I found interesting...

"This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service (of NOAA - the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration) determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating a breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food.

At the appropriate time (as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by NIST - the National Institute of Standards and Technology - and the US Naval Observatory), I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve bank.

On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to send via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the Internet (which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration) and post on FreeRepublic.COM and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the Government can't do anything right."

[I wish I could take credit for writing this.]

Nuff said

 

[JVket04]

Obama's healthcare reform = bad news for us

Walgreens in Washington currently do not fill prescriptions to anyone receiving state/federal aid (medicaid, welfare, etc). The government's compensation to Walgreen's is so low that it actually costs the company money to fill these Rx's.

As more and more commercial chains experience this problem they are gonna follow the same protocol as Walgreens in Washington. The reality - as more people are covered by the government health-aid, this won't last for long because the government will mandate that any pharmacy that dispenses drugs must dispense to welfare patients.

As pharmacies lose money from filling these scripts, they are going to cut into pharmacist salaries. And I'm sure similar problems will propagate in non-retail pharmacy. As I see it - if your career is moving in any area of healthcare - don't expect to be anything more than middle class because this socialization is really going to change the status of physicians and pharmacists if Obama is re-elected.

 

[kmoogs]

Obama's healthcare reform = bad news for us

Walgreens in Washington currently do not fill prescriptions to anyone receiving state/federal aid (medicaid, welfare, etc). The government's compensation to Walgreen's is so low that it actually costs the company money to fill these Rx's.

As more and more commercial chains experience this problem they are gonna follow the same protocol as Walgreens in Washington. The reality - as more people are covered by the government health-aid, this won't last for long because the government will mandate that any pharmacy that dispenses drugs must dispense to welfare patients.

As pharmacies lose money from filling these scripts, they are going to cut into pharmacist salaries. And I'm sure similar problems will propagate in non-retail pharmacy. As I see it - if your career is moving in any area of healthcare - don't expect to be anything more than middle class because this socialization is really going to change the status of physicians and pharmacists if Obama is re-elected.

Wow ... did you even read the bill or just listen to Fair and Balanced FAUX News

 

[kmoogs]

Ugh, sick of all the rumor mongering that's going around here from people who watch tv. LEARN TO READ. Learn how to use the THOMAS resource at the Library of Congress ... geez people... you're supposed to be educated, among the top echelon, and future leaders of the country?

Here you go

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act passed by the House on March 21, 2010 by a party-line vote of 219-212.

Here is a link to the ACTUAL TEXT OF THE BILL PASSED THROUGH BY BUDGET RECONCILIATION, HR 3590, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

Here is a link to HR 4872, Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010, AN AMENDMENT TO THE PREVIOUS BUDGET RECONCILIATION BILL to remove controversial/unpopular items, passed both the House and the Senate already.


Read the freaking bills before you continue your fear mongering. This is getting pathetic.


Key details that no one seems to even care about, info from CBS (too lazy to type it out so I found something typed up):

Health Insurance Exchanges:

• The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
• Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
• Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

• Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Paying for the Plan:

• Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
• Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
• Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Medicare:

• Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
• Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

• Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
• Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
• Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
• Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

• Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
• Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
• Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26th.

Individual Mandate:

• In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

• Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

• Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

And here, if you don't like 'liberal' CBS because its not-fair-and-balanced FAUX NEWS ... here's a timeline provided by the Republicans. http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/WM_hcr_timelinel.pdf

 

[PharmEXP]

Ugh, sick of all the rumor mongering that's going around here from people who watch tv. LEARN TO READ. Learn how to use the THOMAS resource at the Library of Congress ... geez people... you're supposed to be educated, among the top echelon, and future leaders of the country?

Read the freaking bills before you continue your fear mongering. This is getting pathetic.

 

[udiep]

It is appalling that you are against poor people having more access to health care. Yeah, sure, I guess it's okay for that poor 5 year old girl who lives near the dumpster in the street with a leg infection to not get healthcare because her mom can't afford it since she's been out of a job. You really shouldn't be serving people at all if your prime concerns are "well, wah, what will happen to my 6-figure salary?" Truly sad.

I agree. I grew up in a middle class home, NEVER had insurance. at a young age I was already afraid to tell my parents I had to go to eye doctor or if the school sent home something telling my parents that they have to take me the doctor. Because I knew how much stress it caused my parents to pay.. How can you think bout money when youre in a profession where your number one priority should be helping people.

 

[EtohResearcher]

i dont see how it would affect salaries when salaries only increase with time and demand. I think it will be good for most practitioners in the health profession because more people will insured which leads to a higher demand for health services. personally, even as a democrat, I don't see how it is a wise decision to pass this bill given what it will do the federal deficit and because of that, it will not truly go into affect until 2013/2014 which is around the time some us will be graduating so hopefully even more pharmacies will be opening to keep up will all the insured people since it will be mandated.

 

[wes011]

Obama's healthcare reform = bad news for us

Walgreens in Washington currently do not fill prescriptions to anyone receiving state/federal aid (medicaid, welfare, etc). The government's compensation to Walgreen's is so low that it actually costs the company money to fill these Rx's.

That's really interesting because a class mate of mine who was destined for medical school (accepted to all her choices) decided to get married. She married a pharmacist in NY who owns his own pharmacy and due to the big retail stores not wanting the state/federal aid he gobbled it all up. To help her husband with his growing business, she went to pharmacy school instead. I don't know how much $$$ is being given for these scripts, however, those big retailers now take him and her out for dinner monthly trying to buy his pharmacy business from him.

 

[PharmEXP]

i dont see how it would affect salaries when salaries only increase with time and demand. I think it will be good for most practitioners in the health profession because more people will insured which leads to a higher demand for health services. personally, even as a democrat, I don't see how it is a wise decision to pass this bill given what it will do the federal deficit and because of that, it will not truly go into affect until 2013/2014 which is around the time some us will be graduating so hopefully even more pharmacies will be opening to keep up will all the insured people since it will be mandated.

I'm not sure if you are insinuating that the federal deficit will increase or decrease? But from the context, it sounds like you think this bill will add to our deficit. But, according to the CBO, this bill is supposed to reduce our federal deficit by $100 billion over 10 years, and $1 trillion over 20 years. IDK about you, but that seems like a pretty good thing to me.

 

[schleima]

P.S.

If you really have a "serious" 6 figure income (aka >500k/year) you are an idiot for having it all taxed away. You are clearly not smart enough to keep your money. Get off this forum and find a competent CPA/tax attorney.

EXACTLY.

Take a look at this article from the Times of London in which Warren Buffet discovers that he pays taxes at a LOWER RATE THAN HIS SECRETARY.

The wealthy have so many loopholes to take advantage of-- and more significantly, can AFFORD TO PAY EXPERTS to find those loopholes for them. The rest of us just have to lump it with Turbotax.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

 

[Passion4Sci]

The wealthy have always had it easier, and will continue to do so for as long as money is power... not sure anything can ever be done about it.

Humans are by nature greedy and self-serving. Sometimes we are better at hiding it than other times, and our "outside face" is a whole lot different than what you see behind closed doors in terms of business.

That article was pretty sad/funny, Schleima.

 

[schleima]

All in all, I like the loan 4giveness for Pharmacy students... but the pay cut is not good

Loan forgiveness for pharmacy students?

Who said anything about that??

 

[schleima]

teachers are not being paid well because its run by the government. everything government in American history= average condition .... most of us will be in debt after pharmacy school.... if we get 35% pay cut.... we cant pay that loan back...

Guess you guys wants to be like the Pharmacist in Japan where health is run by the government

Healthcare in Japan is not "run by the government" in the way Britain's NHS or the American VA is (i.e. doctors are salaried, government employees and do not directly profit from selling individual procedures).

Japan has a private system of universal coverage in which doctors run private practices. The government's role is to set a yearly price schedule on procedures to keep costs from spiraling out of control.

Take a look at this fascinating PBS program in which they examine 5 healthcare systems in capitalist democracies around the world... Taiwan, Japan, UK, Germany and Switzerland. Each one is very different, and only the UK system can be truly classified as "socialized medicine".

 

[kmoogs]

EXACTLY.

Take a look at this article from the Times of London in which Warren Buffet discovers that he pays taxes at a LOWER RATE THAN HIS SECRETARY.

The wealthy have so many loopholes to take advantage of-- and more significantly, can AFFORD TO PAY EXPERTS to find those loopholes for them. The rest of us just have to lump it with Turbotax.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece

They aren't really loopholes ... it is common knowledge to almost everyone I know. What you call loop holes are published knowledge out in the public and common practice in the field of finance.

Hell, you can even read the books by Buffet's old professor, Ben Graham ... some of your "loop holes" are outlined in there as well.

 

[schleima]

On a somewhat serious note, I have only one non-partisan comment. The problem with taxing high for high earnings is the rich people take their business elsewhere. GDP goes down as capital is spent more on imported services than domestic products (and their exports). Ask an economist, it's ECO101.

There's a great difference between theory and practice.

On the surface, it seems to make sense.... if the company is squeezed from one end, they need to compensate from another. Invariably the argument goes "if I have to pay more taxes, I have to cut jobs." That's the quick, emotional, easy defense that gets people all paranoid & riled up.

The reality is that the reason certain companies are successful is because they adapt and change their circumstances in order to remain profitable, regardless of the cause of the squeeze.

It doesn't matter if the squeeze comes from government tax, or if the cost of their widget supply goes up. If it's a profitable, savvy company, they will adapt. OCCASIONALLY jobs will be lost, and when they are, the company can scream and yell and shout that it's all the government's fault, which sounds better to stockholders than "The CEO really screwed this one up."

 

[kmoogs]

Loan forgiveness for pharmacy students?

Who said anything about that??

Just one of the many examples in the bill ... READ THE BILL PEOPLE. ​

So tired of this

‘‘SEC. 776. PUBLIC HEALTH WORKFORCE LOAN REPAYMENT PROGRAM.​

‘‘(a) E

​

​

STABLISHMENT.—The Secretary shall establish the Public​

Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (referred to in this​

section as the ‘Program') to assure an adequate supply of public​

health professionals to eliminate critical public health workforce

shortages in Federal, State, local, and tribal public health agencies.

‘‘(b) E​

LIGIBILITY.—To be eligible to participate in the Program,​

an individual shall—​

‘‘(1)(A) be accepted for enrollment, or be enrolled, as a​

student in an accredited academic educational institution in

a State or territory in the final year of a course of study

or program leading to a public health or health professions
degree or certificate; and have accepted employment with a
Federal, State, local, or tribal public health agency, or a related
training fellowship, as recognized by the Secretary, to commence
upon graduation;
‘‘(B)(i) have graduated, during the preceding 10-year period,
from an accredited educational institution in a State or territory
and received a public health or health professions degree or
certificate; and
‘‘(ii) be employed by, or have accepted employment with,
a Federal, State, local, or tribal public health agency or a
related training fellowship, as recognized by the Secretary;
‘‘(2) be a United States citizen; and
‘‘(3)(A) submit an application to the Secretary to participate
in the Program;
‘‘(B) execute a written contract as required in subsection
(c); and
‘‘(4) not have received, for the same service, a reduction
of loan obligations under section 455(m), 428J, 428K, 428L,
or 460 of the Higher Education Act of 1965.
‘‘(c) C​

ONTRACT.—The written contract (referred to in this section​

as the ‘written contract') between the Secretary and an individual​

shall contain—​

‘‘(1) an agreement on the part of the Secretary that the

Secretary will repay on behalf of the individual loans incurred

by the individual in the pursuit of the relevant degree or
certificate in accordance with the terms of the contract;
‘‘(2) an agreement on the part of the individual that the​

individual will serve in the full-time employment of a Federal,​

State, local, or tribal public health agency or a related fellowship​

program in a position related to the course of study or​

program for which the contract was awarded for a period of

time (referred to in this section as the ‘period of obligated

service') equal to the greater of—
‘‘(A) 3 years; or
‘‘(B) such longer period of time as determined appropriate
by the Secretary and the individual;
‘‘(3) an agreement, as appropriate, on the part of the individual
to relocate to a priority service area (as determined
by the Secretary) in exchange for an additional loan repayment
incentive amount to be determined by the Secretary;
‘‘(4) a provision that any financial obligation of the United
States arising out of a contract entered into under this section
and any obligation of the individual that is conditioned thereon,
is contingent on funds being appropriated for loan repayments
under this section;
‘‘(5) a statement of the damages to which the United States
is entitled, under this section for the individual's breach of
the contract; and
‘‘(6) such other statements of the rights and liabilities
of the Secretary and of the individual, not inconsistent with
this section.
‘‘(d) P​

AYMENTS.—​

‘‘(1) I​

N GENERAL.—A loan repayment provided for an individual​

under a written contract under the Program shall consist​

of payment, in accordance with paragraph (2), on behalf of​

the individual of the principal, interest, and related expenses

on government and commercial loans received by the individual

regarding the undergraduate or graduate education of the individual
(or both), which loans were made for tuition expenses
incurred by the individual.
‘‘(2) P​

AYMENTS FOR YEARS SERVED.—For each year of obligated​

service that an individual contracts to serve under subsection​

(c) the Secretary may pay up to $35,000 on behalf​

of the individual for loans described in paragraph (1). With

respect to participants under the Program whose total eligible

loans are less than $105,000, the Secretary shall pay an amount
that does not exceed ​

1⁄3 of the eligible loan balance for each​

year of obligated service of the individual.​

‘‘(3) T​

AX LIABILITY.—For the purpose of providing​

reimbursements for tax liability resulting from payments under​

paragraph (2) on behalf of an individual, the Secretary shall,​

in addition to such payments, make payments to the individual

in an amount not to exceed 39 percent of the total amount

of loan repayments made for the taxable year involved.
‘‘(e) P​

OSTPONING OBLIGATED SERVICE.—With respect to an individual​

receiving a degree or certificate from a health professions​

or other related school, the date of the initiation of the period​

of obligated service may be postponed as approved by the Secretary.

‘‘(f) B​

REACH OF CONTRACT.—An individual who fails to comply​

with the contract entered into under subsection (c) shall be subject​

to the same financial penalties as provided for under section 338E​

for breaches of loan repayment contracts under section 338B.

‘‘(g) A​

UTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.—There is authorized
to be appropriated to carry out this section $195,000,000 for fiscal​

year 2010, and such sums as may be necessary for each of fiscal​

years 2011 through 2015.''.

SEC. 5205. ALLIED HEALTH WORKFORCE RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION​

PROGRAMS.​

​

​

(a) PURPOSE.—The purpose of this section is to assure an adequate​

supply of allied health professionals to eliminate critical​

allied health workforce shortages in Federal, State, local, and tribal​

public health agencies or in settings where patients might require

health care services, including acute care facilities, ambulatory

care facilities, personal residences and other settings, as recognized
by the Secretary of Health and Human Services by authorizing​

​

an Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program.​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

​

 

[schleima]

They aren't really loopholes ... it is common knowledge to almost everyone I know. What you call loop holes are published knowledge out in the public and common practice in the field of finance.

Hell, you can even read the books by Buffet's old professor, Ben Graham ... some of your "loop holes" are outlined in there as well.

As far as I'm concerned, if it's not readily apparent in the 1040A instructions, and not automatically calculated by the e-file software you use, it's a loophole!

 

[kmoogs]

As far as I'm concerned, if it's not readily apparent in the 1040A instructions, and not automatically calculated by the e-file software you use, it's a loophole!

LOL... 1040A ....

It's not the government's fault you follow the life you live. There's nothing stopping you from organizing your personal finances to avoid the same taxes Buffet et al. avoid. Automatically calculated in tax software? on the 1040A? lol, that's pretty lazy.

 

[kmoogs]

There's a great difference between theory and practice.

On the surface, it seems to make sense.... if the company is squeezed from one end, they need to compensate from another. Invariably the argument goes "if I have to pay more taxes, I have to cut jobs." That's the quick, emotional, easy defense that gets people all paranoid & riled up.

The reality is that the reason certain companies are successful is because they adapt and change their circumstances in order to remain profitable, regardless of the cause of the squeeze.

It doesn't matter if the government adds an extra tax or the cost, of if the cost of their widget supply goes up. If it's a profitable, successful company, they will adapt. OCCASIONALLY jobs will be lost, and when they are, the company can scream and yell and shout that it's all the government's fault, which sounds better to stockholders than "The CEO really screwed this one up."

I'm starting to get the idea that you've never taken any courses in Economics or Finance?

 

[schleima]

LOL... 1040A ....

It's not the government's fault you follow the life you live. There's nothing stopping you from organizing your personal finances to avoid the same taxes Buffet et al. avoid. Automatically calculated in tax software? on the 1040A? lol, that's pretty lazy.

You are making the false assumption that I am speaking about my personal financial life. I've had to hire a CPA to do my taxes the last 8 years because I've had supplemental income from a small PR business I operate.

On my own, I have no hope at all of exploiting the "loopholes" (as I've defined previously, maximizing deductions, depreciation, etc.-- let alone any fancy or creative moves which step up to the line of legality without crossing over), because the laws change every year, and I do not have the time, knowledge, training or experience to know how to take the maximum deductions without triggering an audit, and I'd rather pay lots of money to an experienced, knowledgeable professional to minimize my risk of being audited.

If I did not have this business, I would rely on the 1040A instructions and ultimately I would have do my own research to find out information and loopholes. Either that, or I would continue to pay my CPA large amounts of money to do my taxes and educate me. But not everyone has the ability or resources to do this. Large companies and Warren Buffet do.

 

[kmoogs]

You are making the false assumption that I speaking about my personal financial life. I've had to hire a CPA to do my taxes the last 8 years because I've had supplemental income from a small PR business I operate.

On my own, I have no hope at all of exploiting the "loopholes" (as I've defined previously, maximizing deductions, depreciation, etc.-- let alone any fancy or creative moves which step up to the line of legality without crossing over), because the laws change every year, and I do not have the time, knowledge, training or experience to know how to take the maximum deductions without triggering an audit, and I'd rather pay lots of money to an experienced, knowledgeable professional to minimize my risk of being audited.

If I did not have this business, I would rely on the 1040A instructions and ultimately I would have do my own research to find out information and loopholes. Either that, or I would continue to pay my CPA large amounts of money to do my taxes and educate me. But not everyone has the ability or resources to do this. Large companies and Warren Buffet do.

If you didn't have your own company, there is still nothing stopping you from conducting your finances in the same way they do. What Buffet and the rest of Wall Street are doing doesn't change every year. It was the same in the 2000's, the same in the 1990's, the same in the 1980's... all the way back to the 1930's.

It's not exploiting ... it's common knowledge that has been here for at least three generations if not more.

This is just more uneducated fear mongering..............

 

[schleima]

If you didn't have your own company, there is still nothing stopping you from conducting your finances in the same way they do. What Buffet and the rest of Wall Street are doing doesn't change every year. It was the same in the 2000's, the same in the 1990's, the same in the 1980's... all the way back to the 1930's.

It's not exploiting ... it's common knowledge that has been here for at least three generations if not more.

This is just more uneducated fear mongering..............

You're 100% right. Everyone could learn so much from you if they opened their minds and hearts to your teachings! Thank you, Kmoogs, for your patient and loving tutelage! If I could give you a loving kiss right now, I would. Twice! (and once more for good luck... hahahaha!)

Sincerely,
Schleima

P.S. I admire that you can educate without condescending. That's a rare trait in a teacher, and one for which you should be praised. We love you, kmoogs-- and everything you represent!

Hip-hip-hooray!

 

[kmoogs]

You're 100% right. Everyone could learn so much from you if they opened their minds and hearts to your teachings! Thank you, Kmoogs, for your patient and loving tutelage! If I could give you a loving kiss right now, I would. Twice! (and once more for good luck... hahahaha!)

Sincerely,
Schleima

P.S. I admire that you can educate without condescending. That's a rare trait in a teacher, and one for which you should be praised. We love you, kmoogs-- and everything you represent!

Hip-hip-hooray!

I'm not here to teach you anything. I already gave a reference earlier... read it for yourself. Its no wonder poor people stay poor...

 

[schleima]

I'm not here to teach you anything. I already gave a reference earlier... read it for yourself. Its no wonder poor people stay poor...

All too true, kmoogs!! Haha, man you're so wise about the poor! ^^

Thanks again for your help and good-natured posts. We all need more people with your kind and effusive spirit, patience, and helpful attitude!

With sincere appreciation and admiration,

Schleima

 

[kmoogs]

All too true, kmoogs!! Haha, man you're so wise about the poor! ^^

Thanks again for your help and good-natured posts. We all need more people with your kind and effusive spirit, patience, and helpful attitude!

With sincere appreciation and admiration,

Schleima

Wow. Troll much?

 

[schleima]

Wow. Troll much?

I learn from the best. That's you, kmoogs! ^^ You're the best in everything!!!

Take care my friend,
Schleima

 

[Farmercyst]

One man's loophole is another man's tax credit. If you can't keep it civil, please use the ignore function so you don't have to read their posts and we don't have to read your arguments.

 

[kmoogs]

Shrug, I'm trying to keep it civil. It's not even about tax credits, its about asset management. I gave an reference/author to start with if anyone wanted to look into it and know how Buffet et al. do it. It's actually a very fundamental concept ...

 

[Farmercyst]

Shrug, I'm trying to keep it civil. It's not even about tax credits, its about asset management. I gave an reference/author to start with if anyone wanted to look into it and know how Buffet et al. do it. It's actually a very fundamental concept ...

That's all well and good, but to drag it on like this really doesn't do anyone, including yourself and schleima any good, so why keep going? Sometimes it's best to just let it die. Most times if you can't let it die on it's own, you kill it for everyone, even if you're right.

 

[JVket04]

Wow ... did you even read the bill or just listen to Fair and Balanced FAUX News

Neither, actually - I spoke with a pharmacist working at a walgreens in washigton. Washington has been dealing with this prob since before the bill was passed (a pre-existing condition if I may). It is what it kmoogs, faux sho."

 

[JVket04]

That's really interesting because a class mate of mine who was destined for medical school (accepted to all her choices) decided to get married. She married a pharmacist in NY who owns his own pharmacy and due to the big retail stores not wanting the state/federal aid he gobbled it all up. To help her husband with his growing business, she went to pharmacy school instead. I don't know how much $$$ is being given for these scripts, however, those big retailers now take him and her out for dinner monthly trying to buy his pharmacy business from him.

That's really interesting. All this while I have been told that the day of independant pharmacies were slowly diminshing. Who know though - increased state aid might be our ticket to re-establishig the non-commerci
al pharmacy! Maybe I won't be so bummed if Obama is re-elected lol. Anyone interested in being my future business partner?

 

[PharmEXP]

That's really interesting. All this while I have been told that the day of independant pharmacies were slowly diminshing. Who know though - increased state aid might be our ticket to re-establishig the non-commerci
al pharmacy! Maybe I won't be so bummed if Obama is re-elected lol. Anyone interested in being my future business partner?

My ultimate goal, although premature and uncertain, is to one day own and operate a successful independent pharmacy of my own. Let's do business

 

[Passion4Sci]

I want to open a restaurant.

Rx for Dining.

 

[kmoogs]

Neither, actually - I spoke with a pharmacist working at a walgreens in washigton. Washington has been dealing with this prob since before the bill was passed (a pre-existing condition if I may). It is what it kmoogs, faux sho."

I was referring to this statement

As pharmacies lose money from filling these scripts, they are going to cut into pharmacist salaries. And I'm sure similar problems will propagate in non-retail pharmacy. As I see it - if your career is moving in any area of healthcare - don't expect to be anything more than middle class because this socialization is really going to change the status of physicians and pharmacists if Obama is re-elected.

 

[PharmEXP]

I want to open a restaurant.

Rx for Dining.

LOL. nice touch!