what happens to the person at the bottom of the class?

[darktooth]

if someone graduates at the bottom, has no research or publications, nothing else outstanding, passed the boards, nothing impressive, what are there residency prospects?

Family medicine in north Dakota, iowa, etc... or can they still get somewhat competitive residencies, although rare?

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[cabinbuilder]

They get called doctor just like everyone else. Not everyone does research. Passing the boards is a good thing - not everyone does the first time. Not everyone wants to be a gung ho cardio thoracic surgeon in NYC or do world wide cranio facial tumor removal on discovery channel.

 

[MerickManual]

They actually take the student at the bottom of the class and sacrifice them during graduation to appease the medical-school deities.




JK! They graduate like the rest of us.

 

[Tizoc]

They actually take the student at the bottom of the class and sacrifice them during graduation to appease the medical-school deities.

Actually, they do that at our school, although we're sacrificed to gain AT Still's favor.

 

[Kevin Baker]

Depends on board scores.

 

[darktooth]

I guess I didn't express my question right... ill try to rephrase it.

Basically what im asking is, if you barely passed med school AND the boards, are you guaranteed to get a residency?


or does being at the bottom of the class mean you may not be able to land a residency?

 

[Superman DO]

You are never guaranteed a residency position, even if you are at the top of your class with the best board scores in the world. Likewise, just because one would be at the very bottom of the class with barely passing board scores doesn't mean he or she has no chance at residency. There is much more to the residency application than just numbers.

 

[deleted480308]

I guess I didn't express my question right... ill try to rephrase it.

Basically what im asking is, if you barely passed med school AND the boards, are you guaranteed to get a residency?


or does being at the bottom of the class mean you may not be able to land a residency?

No one is actually guaranteed a residency....statistically a forgone conclusion? Yes in some cases. Guaranteed? Never

 

[babdoc]

And noting the fact that there are programs that go unfilled every year, I'd hazard that they could probably get a spot in something somewhere. Like previously said, doesn't all depend on numbers.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I guess I didn't express my question right... ill try to rephrase it.

Basically what im asking is, if you barely passed med school AND the boards, are you guaranteed to get a residency?


or does being at the bottom of the class mean you may not be able to land a residency?

It would be silly to think this. You have to remember that medical students have already been weeded out of undergrad so are the top picks just to gain admission. Someone has to be at the end of the class, it just works that way. Why would that last person be excluded just because they are the last of the elite group?

 

[Missorleans]

I guess I didn't express my question right... ill try to rephrase it.

Basically what im asking is, if you barely passed med school AND the boards, are you guaranteed to get a residency?


or does being at the bottom of the class mean you may not be able to land a residency?

Considering that the number of residency spots (on the MD side anyway, idk about DO) has been decreasing, and the percentage of residency applicants who do not match has been increasing, I'm betting these are the American medical school graduates who do not match.
You are by no means guaranteed a residency.
Unless you are a fantastic person to be around/work with, why would any program want someone who barely passed and was at the bottom of their class? Unless that's all they have to choose from...like some unfortunate family medicine program in a miserable area.

 

[Bacchus]

Considering that the number of residency spots (on the MD side anyway, idk about DO) has been decreasing, and the percentage of residency applicants who do not match has been increasing, I'm betting these are the American medical school graduates who do not match.
You are by no means guaranteed a residency.
Unless you are a fantastic person to be around/work with, why would any program want someone who barely passed and was at the bottom of their class? Unless that's all they have to choose from...like some unfortunate family medicine program in a miserable area.

They're not matching because they're not applying to residencies that aren't filling. An ortho applicant naturally won't be applying for unfilled FM spots or IM spots.

 

[darktooth]

It would be silly to think this. You have to remember that medical students have already been weeded out of undergrad so are the top picks just to gain admission. Someone has to be at the end of the class, it just works that way. Why would that last person be excluded just because they are the last of the elite group? It's just silly.

It's not silly at all. I'm new this whole thing and have no idea what to expect, which is why I asked.

What's silly is your sarcastic responses. From your posts it seems you're going into family med and are very insecure about it. No need to lash out. You don't have to reply.


Thanks to everyone who gave insight.

 

[Beargryllz]

Assuming they graduate? They start going by the title "Dr." and probably practice medicine

 

[koan]

What's silly is your sarcastic responses. From your posts it seems you're going into family med and are very insecure about it.

Simmer down nah! cabinbuilder is an attending. Your question just strikes a nerve with some folks.

I wish there was a collection of short bios of medical students, as they go through the match. It would be interesting to hear how the process went, based on their original goals, objective stats, and possible adjustment of those goals to secure training. What you're asking strikes me as more of a statistical question: is there a correlation between low class rank and failing to match.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

It's not silly at all. I'm new this whole thing and have no idea what to expect, which is why I asked.

What's silly is your sarcastic responses. From your posts it seems you're going into family med and are very insecure about it. No need to lash out. You don't have to reply.


Thanks to everyone who gave insight.

HA!! Funny.........but not really.

 

[darktooth]

Below

 

[darktooth]

What specialties had the most unfilled residency spots? Won't that change once the new schools and bigger class sizes start pumping out physicians?

 

[cabinbuilder]

It's not silly at all. I'm new this whole thing and have no idea what to expect, which is why I asked.

What's silly is your sarcastic responses. From your posts it seems you're going into family med and are very insecure about it. No need to lash out. You don't have to reply.


Thanks to everyone who gave insight.

I'm insecure about family med? I've been out of residency for some time. Wasn't being saracastic. Don't misconstrue and don't be so sensitive. Just saying your fears are unwarrented.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I guess I didn't express my question right... ill try to rephrase it.

Basically what im asking is, if you barely passed med school AND the boards, are you guaranteed to get a residency?


or does being at the bottom of the class mean you may not be able to land a residency?

Bottom of both, with boards being exponentially more important the grades, they're still likely to have the opportunity to match the least competitive AOA specialties somewhere after the scramble. There are a lot of unfulfilled FM and a few unfulfilled IM spots every year for the DO match. Similar for the MD match but then you run into the issue of competitive FMGs though again, lots of unmatched FM and IM spots. To give reference, for the last 5 years, there have been between 0 and 1% of my class unmatched after all is said and done. With such a low percentage I'd hazard those unmatched tend to be holding out for something else or going into a career that doesn't require a residency. This isn't law school. Get the degree and with minimal effort you'll land a residency. It just may not be the one, or the location, or both, that you desire.

 

[NurWollen]

if someone graduates at the bottom, has no research or publications, nothing else outstanding, passed the boards, nothing impressive, what are there residency prospects?

Family medicine in north Dakota, iowa, etc... or can they still get somewhat competitive residencies, although rare?

I really hate these disparaging comments towards rural family medicine residencies and rural family medicine practice... some people want to live in places like North Dakota or Iowa.

 

[babdoc]

I really hate these disparaging comments towards rural family medicine residencies and rural family medicine practice... some people want to live in places like North Dakota or Iowa.

Shhhhh....don't say that. The word might get out and spoil it when they figure it out.

 

[NurWollen]

Shhhhh....don't say that. The word might get out and spoil it when they figure it out.

Haha, lol. I don't know if I'll end up doing FM but if I do I definitely want rural.

 

[user3]

You are never guaranteed a residency position, even if you are at the top of your class with the best board scores in the world. Likewise, just because one would be at the very bottom of the class with barely passing board scores doesn't mean he or she has no chance at residency. There is much more to the residency application than just numbers.

COCA passed new accreditation standards in 2012, requiring schools to "strive" to place 100% of grads in residencies, with a bare minimum of 98% placement averaged over 3 years.

 

[Seth Joo]

if someone graduates at the bottom, has no research or publications, nothing else outstanding, passed the boards, nothing impressive, what are there residency prospects?

Family medicine in north Dakota, iowa, etc... or can they still get somewhat competitive residencies, although rare?

What do you think happens to someone at the bottom of the class at Harvard or Hopkins? They are still called "Doctor". Many students currently in Osteopathic schools are enrolled because they could not get into MD schools.

 

[NontradCA]

They're not matching because they're not applying to residencies that aren't filling. An ortho applicant naturally won't be applying for unfilled FM spots or IM spots.

Do those who don't match scramble into these spots after?

 

[Bacchus]

Do those who don't match scramble into these spots after?

Some probably do, others go on to do an internship year and then reapply.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

What do you think happens to someone at the bottom of the class at Harvard or Hopkins? They are still called "Doctor". Many students currently in Osteopathic schools are enrolled because they could not get into MD schools.

No way!?

What a nugget of helpful knowledge.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Just like every class has the student at the bottom, there are also residency programs at the "bottom" (in terms of specialty, location, and/or prestige). Keep in mind that advantage tends to be highest on home court...so poor students often stay at their home program in a less competitive specialty, which may not necessarily be in an undesirable location.

 

[darktooth]

I'm insecure about family med? I've been out of residency for some time. Wasn't being saracastic. Don't misconstrue and don't be so sensitive. Just saying your fears are unwarrented.

That makes sense now. So you've gone through years of people pointing out that "the best students specialize" and have battled those insecure feelings for awhile. No wonder you use this board as an outlet. I just want to say that I don't agree with them. I hope that makes you feel better.

 

[MerickManual]

That makes sense now. So you've gone through years of people pointing out that "the best students specialize" and have battled those insecure feelings for awhile. No wonder you use this board as an outlet. I just want to say that I don't agree with them. I hope that makes you feel better.

You better calm down, get your facts straight and get your panties unbunched. Cabinbuilder is not insecure, she actually advocated for FM and makes great contributions to this forum.

 

[mcloaf]

That makes sense now. So you've gone through years of people pointing out that "the best students specialize" and have battled those insecure feelings for awhile. No wonder you use this board as an outlet. I just want to say that I don't agree with them. I hope that makes you feel better.

Who's insecure, the attending who took time to answer a med student's question or the med student who made a thread worried about what happens to the student at the bottom of the class?

 

[Dr. Zombie]

That makes sense now. So you've gone through years of people pointing out that "the best students specialize" and have battled those insecure feelings for awhile. No wonder you use this board as an outlet. I just want to say that I don't agree with them. I hope that makes you feel better.

It's not her fault you possibly have a lower than wanted class rank.

 

[Superman DO]

That makes sense now. So you've gone through years of people pointing out that "the best students specialize" and have battled those insecure feelings for awhile. No wonder you use this board as an outlet. I just want to say that I don't agree with them. I hope that makes you feel better.

This kind of attitude probably leads to not matching more so than being at the bottom of the class.

 

[cliquesh]

COCA passed new accreditati standards in 2012, requiring schools to "strive" to place 100% of grads in residencies, with a bare minimum of 98% placement averaged over 3 years.

Does it actual say "residency" or is it just some vague post graduate training position statement? My real question is: does a TRI fulfill the requirements? I have a few classmates that failed to match and they doing TRIs. They all said their internships are a joke.

Anyway, in regards to the original question. I think people at the bottom of the class/board scores are fine if they stick with AOA FM, IM, or psych. If they deviate too fair from those specialites or try Acgme, they will go unmatched.

Being in the bottom of the class, like your actual pre-clinical class rank, doesn't matter TOO much. Having really low board scores, which is what I'm talking about, is what kills peoples' applications.

 

[Dharma]

I really hate these disparaging comments towards rural family medicine residencies and rural family medicine practice... some people want to live in places like North Dakota or Iowa.

and those "some people" usually doing pretty darn well for themselves as well...