What if..., a partnership thread.

[militarymd]

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So I guess you don't believe in:

1) trends
2) statistical likelihoods

stuff like that....stuff that helps us predict just about everything.

that's ok...you can look at the world through your rose colored classes and ignore "statistics" if you like...but I know better.


Grant it "trends" and "statistical likelihoods" change over time...but as of right now....

Based on your astute observation and would guess that you would come to the following conclusions based on real events that have happened in my life.

1) A black male broke into my car when I was 10......so all blacks are thieves.

2) A white male collegues in residency made repeated racial slurs....so all white are racist.

3) An Asian female in my high school was our valedictorian.........so all Asians are smart.

4) I fired a white female former employee because she wouldnt do her job.....so all white female are lazy and inept.

5) A former collegue was not board certified and had a very distinguished career....so board certification is not necessary.


These false statements are equally as ridiculous as yours. You had a bad experience with a URM applicant. This is not an indictment for every URM applicant in the world. I have never interviewed a URM applicant and I can tell you that laziness, ineptitude, and incompetence are not unique to any one ethnic group, sex, or board certification status.

 

[thegasman]

Based on your astute observation and would guess that you would come to the following conclusions based on real events that have happened in my life.

1) A black male broke into my car when I was 10......so all blacks are thieves.

2) A white male collegues in residency made repeated racial slurs....so all white are racist.

3) An Asian female in my high school was our valedictorian.........so all Asians are smart.

4) I fired a white female former employee because she wouldnt do her job.....so all white female are lazy and inept.

5) A former collegue was not board certified and had a very distinguished career....so board certification is not necessary.


These false statements are equally as ridiculous as yours. You had a bad experience with a URM applicant. This is not an indictment for every URM applicant in the world. I have never interviewed a URM applicant and I can tell you that laziness, ineptitude, and incompetence are not unique to any one ethnic group, sex, or board certification status.

I don't think he said these things were true of all URM, just this one in particular, and his point was against affirmative action which allowed someone who was unqualified to become "trained" as an anesthesiologist - so she could provide poor care and make us all look bad. The senior partner in my group is black and he is pretty slick. I don't think anybody gave him any tokens, he earned every bit. (by the way - I think MilMD is a minority also)

 

[mille125]

Anyone knows who qualifies as a URM?
Homosexuals? Blacks? Jews? Asians? Arabs?....
Who exactly is a URM??

URM or underrepresented in medicine does not include asians. Typically is is african americans, latinos, and native americans.

 

[mille125]

I don't think he said these things were true of all URM, just this one in particular, and his point was against affirmative action which allowed someone who was unqualified to become "trained" as an anesthesiologist - so she could provide poor care and make us all look bad. The senior partner in my group is black and he is pretty slick. I don't think anybody gave him any tokens, he earned every bit. (by the way - I think MilMD is a minority also)

i think that you are mistaken. go back and read what he said and read his subsequent response...

 

[mille125]

So I guess you don't believe in:

1) trends
2) statistical likelihoods
stuff like that....stuff that helps us predict just about everything.

that's ok...you can look at the world through your rose colored classes and ignore "statistics" if you like...but I know better.


Grant it "trends" and "statistical likelihoods" change over time...but as of right now....

Actually, military, I do believe in trends and statistics when applied appropriately. An n of 1 or even an n of 100 out of a population of tens of millions is not a correct sample size in which to make correct inferences. You should know better.


My medical school class was made up of 25% URM's as you call it (class size of 190). In my class there were 15 students who did not make it through. None of them were URM's. Am I to infer that only non URM's drop out of medical school? Of course not. Do you see the problem with your logic?


Affirmative action is an interesting thing. There is no doubt that some students benefit from it in admission selection criteria. However, the vast majority of these individuals do go on to become excellent future clinicians. If your premise is that many of these students are unqualified, wouldn't you see many failing to complete med school. I could see how affirmative action could help some of these individuals get into school but I fail to see how it could keep them in school or place them in competitive residencies and jobs. I think that all of us will agree that affirmative action does not exist in the residency selection process or in the PP world. If anything most of the real world after school is exactly the opposite and is run by many like military MD.

 

[Planktonmd]

URM or underrepresented in medicine does not include asians. Typically is is african americans, latinos, and native americans.

I thought URM = Under Represented Minority and it has to do with who qualifies for affirmative action (not exclusive to medicine).

 

[militarymd]

My medical school class had 25% URMs also. ....also around 200.

We had 10 people fail Step I....all of them URMS.

We had 3 people made to repeat first year....all of them URM

We had 1 person repeat 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th yefar....guess what? URM.

The lowest scores on everything in my school.....URM.

They had special tutoring classes that were available ONLY to them...and yet they still performed so poorly....

and guess what? They all matched into good training programs.

The reason that guys like me run a lot of things, is because ONLY guys like me are willing to stick it out like I did.

Actually, military, I do believe in trends and statistics when applied appropriately. An n of 1 or even an n of 100 out of a population of tens of millions is not a correct sample size in which to make correct inferences. You should know better.


My medical school class was made up of 25% URM's as you call it (class size of 190). In my class there were 15 students who did not make it through. None of them were URM's. Am I to infer that only non URM's drop out of medical school? Of course not. Do you see the problem with your logic?


Affirmative action is an interesting thing. There is no doubt that some students benefit from it in admission selection criteria. However, the vast majority of these individuals do go on to become excellent future clinicians. If your premise is that many of these students are unqualified, wouldn't you see many failing to complete med school. I could see how affirmative action could help some of these individuals get into school but I fail to see how it could keep them in school or place them in competitive residencies and jobs. I think that all of us will agree that affirmative action does not exist in the residency selection process or in the PP world. If anything most of the real world after school is exactly the opposite and is run by many like military MD.

 

[mille125]

Well military I have to hand it to you. You let everyone know where you stand. Your rantings reveal racist tendencies. There is no other way to say it. At least everyone knows where you stand.


Out of curiousity, what percentage of black, latino, and native american doctors do you feel are unqualified or unfit. I recently read through the "bad boys" list that my state medical society puts out (disciplined doctors). All recent offenders were white males. I look at who my hospital and surgery center has disciplined in the past year. Again all white males. I look at doctors in my community who have negative standing amongst patients and peers. I see a mix of white males and females also one black and one latino physician. Bad apples come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, and colors (and board certification statuses). Anyone who says otherwise either has some hidden agenda, is ignorant, or is racist.

 

[dgruntledmizzou]

(by the way - I think MilMD is a minority also)

What kind?

What, I'm curious.

 

[maceo]

I had a URM in there also...I forgot that part...who graduated from Vanderbilt...

My conclusions from my interaction with this female URM is this:

1) Affirmative action is wrong
2) if affirmative action had no role in getting this URM through Vanderbilt, then Vanderbilt sucks....and the Vanderbilt syndrome is real
3) Board certification means something...because this female URM from Vanderbilty could not get BCed.

4) and the stereotypes that are out there about Affirmative Action female URM doctors are TRUE

5) I'm glad she is no longer associated with me in any way.

we all know you're thoughts on this subject. I dont take anything you say seriously at all based on your previous bigoted and racist statements. Taking advice from you would be like taking advice from archie bunker. You are everything that is wrong with america.

 

[militarymd]

My medical school class had 25% URMs also. ....also around 200.

We had 10 people fail Step I....all of them URMS.

We had 3 people made to repeat first year....all of them URM

We had 1 person repeat 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th yefar....guess what? URM.

The lowest scores on everything in my school.....URM.

They had special tutoring classes that were available ONLY to them...and yet they still performed so poorly....

and guess what? They all matched into good training programs.

The reason that guys like me run a lot of things, is because ONLY guys like me are willing to stick it out like I did.

Well military I have to hand it to you. You let everyone know where you stand. Your rantings reveal racist tendencies. There is no other way to say it. At least everyone knows where you stand.


Out of curiousity, what percentage of black, latino, and native american doctors do you feel are unqualified or unfit. I recently read through the "bad boys" list that my state medical society puts out (disciplined doctors). All recent offenders were white males. I look at who my hospital and surgery center has disciplined in the past year. Again all white males. I look at doctors in my community who have negative standing amongst patients and peers. I see a mix of white males and females also one black and one latino physician. Bad apples come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, and colors (and board certification statuses). Anyone who says otherwise either has some hidden agenda, is ignorant, or is racist.

Yep....typical rants..."You're a racist"

Where in my post did I NOT just state facts?

I have no percentages...I'm merely stating that AA allows under qualified people to join our club.

If they weren't underqualifed, then why does AA exist?...

It is not racist to expect EQUALITY.

You've been brainwashed by the leftist media.

 

[militarymd]

we all know you're thoughts on this subject. I dont take anything you say seriously at all based on your previous bigoted and racist statements. Taking advice from you would be like taking advice from archie bunker. You are everything that is wrong with america.

why don't you do everyone a favor and crawl back under that rock you hide under.

 

[militarymd]

Actually, military, I d.............ction does not exist in the residency selection process or in the PP world. If anything most of the real world after school is exactly the opposite and is run by many like military MD.

Out of curiosity, why do you think this is true?

 

[maceo]

Out of curiosity, why do you think this is true?

because you have zero personality and very little social skills. You're social skills consists of making people think you are smarter and better than every other anesthesiologist while we all know it is a crock. Only as____ike you are ones who have a willingness to do the job as a chief. I have nothing but contempt for you militarymd. You have proven to me you have a very little understanding of manythings. and this board is the only thing you have in your life and its no wonder you are in the deep south j_______

 

[racerx]

 

[deleted126335]

Anyone knows who qualifies as a URM?
Homosexuals? Blacks? Jews? Asians? Arabs?....
Who exactly is a URM??

I would think that it depends on the make up of the group to which you are applying. For instance. Women make up more than 50% of college applicants, thus are not an URM for that group. However, if applying for faculty job at an engineering school, they might very well qualify. I suspect that it would be hard to make the case for Jews or Asians being underrepresented in college or medical school applicants.
I would think that for college or med school URM's would be defined as African American, Native American, Latinos. The above is just a guess on my part.

 

[mille125]

and it is pretty clear who the hijacker is

 

[mille125]

Yep....typical rants..."You're a racist"

Where in my post did I NOT just state facts?

I have no percentages...I'm merely stating that AA allows under qualified people to join our club.

If they weren't underqualifed, then why does AA exist?...

It is not racist to expect EQUALITY.

You've been brainwashed by the leftist media.

Facts you say. I looked at your posts again. The only facts that you stated were that you had a bad experience with a female URM and several URM's in your medical school were unqualified. I am not disputing this with you as these are you experiences. However, to jump ahead and apply these thoughts to a whole population based on a sample size or 1 or of 50 is simply error. I would think that you would know better than that. But then again racist, cronyism, and sexism are not logical so I guess I am expecting to much from you.


I do find it interesting that you ask why AA is in existence. To those who were unsure all of your rants make it clear. It is in existence because of people like you. It is human nature to try to associate with people who are like you. If given two applicants of entirely equal status except for a difference in sex or skin color, the employer will chose the one who most resembles himself. This is human nature. Unfortunately, the medical establishment is full of white males. There are of course exceptions and the numbers have changed slightly over the last 30 years. Take a look at your medical board, your hospital board, your partnership. In most cases there are very few women, URM, asians, etc. This is why AA exists. Is it a perfect system? Gosh no. I must remind you that the "establishment" has had hundreds of years to bring fairness and equality as you call it to the system and has failed.

 

[militarymd]

mille

There's no point arguing here.

You've drank the cool aid...you've bought into the liberal media bias...I have not.

The fact the blacks have lower scores, fail more boards, take longer to pass tests, etc, etc, etc....IS A SIMPLE FACT....

I'm not going to bother posting the statistics....That's just a FACT.

How we (you and me) want to interpret those FACTs is obviously different.

I believe that AA has led to lower quality people into our club, and my belief is substantiated by my personal experiences of living and practicing in the midwest , east coast, in the military, and now in the deep south.

As for recruiting people who are similar.....I have not recruited ONE SINGLE Chinese person....or EVEN Asian into my group.....I did recruit one BLACK person....so you're wrong there also.

As for derailing the thread, it was you...when you made derogatory comments about my BELIEFS and I replied to NC1974

 

[maceo]

mille

There's no point arguing here.

You've drank the cool aid...you've bought into the liberal media bias...I have not.

The fact the blacks have lower scores, fail more boards, take longer to pass tests, etc, etc, etc....IS A SIMPLE FACT....

I'm not going to bother posting the statistics....That's just a FACT.

How we (you and me) want to interpret those FACTs is obviously different.

I believe that AA has led to lower quality people into our club, and my belief is substantiated by my personal experiences of living and practicing in the midwest , east coast, in the military, and now in the deep south.

As for recruiting people who are similar.....I have not recruited ONE SINGLE Chinese person....or EVEN Asian into my group.....I did recruit one BLACK person....so you're wrong there also.

As for derailing the thread, it was you...when you made derogatory comments about my BELIEFS and I replied to NC1974

its so funny that you are an asian male and you are spewing this stuff.

you need a good unbiased history book and someone to interpret said history book.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

This has degnerated beyond the usual degeneration. Closing.