What if I do poorly in an advanced biology class?

[clc8503]

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I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

 

[CatsandCradles]

I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

That must be one hell of a hard class! 😱

May I ask what school you go to?

 

[kovalchuk]

I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

90% failure rate? I doubt it.

 

[clc8503]

90% failure rate? I doubt it.

It has a lot to do with the teacher. Imunohematology is a competency for my field and if you don't pass the tests the professor will not pass you. The failure rate is that high for 1st time students. 2nd time students usually end up passing if they don't change thier major first. Like I said though, it is the highest biology at my school. This is the last year that this particular teacher will be teaching at my school. Many people feel the same way as you though. The failure rate should not be that high. However, if you are in any kind of doubt as to what I am posting, try looking through an immunohematology text book and then try to imagine just how hard the class COULD BE if you ended up with a professor that expected you to know every little detail. BTW, by failing I mean lower than a 'c'. You have to get a C or better in the class to go to clinicals. Many people end up in the 'D' range and the professor does not curve. Her philosophy is that if you don't know your stuff, you can't go to clinicals. She is over the clinical program as well.

 

[chandelantern]

Wow - why would they not curve the course? Something obviously isn't right if more than half the class is failing...either the professor is not teaching the material or the material is in fact too difficult for an undergraduate course. Why did you take this course if you knew about its reputation? I don't know for sure, but I doubt adcoms are going to know about the rigorousness of the course, and will look at it the same as any other upper div bio course. I doubt they'd look twice at a C, but a D might raise some red flags.

 

[Uvault05]

CLC, I hate to ask the obvious question here, but why did you sign-up for the class in the first place?? Granted, this question certainly won't help your situation at all, but I'm definitely curious about whether you were even warned about this before signing-up. Looks like a med school application-killer if I've ever seen one!

Are you able to withdraw at this point?? If so, go for it. Otherwise, perhaps it would be wise to discuss with the chair of the science dept. in order to effect some kind of change--a 90% failure rate is not right under any circumstance. If that fails, then I wouldn't go out on the weekends if I were you 🙁

 

[kovalchuk]

It has a lot to do with the teacher. Imunohematology is a competency for my field and if you don't pass the tests the professor will not pass you. The failure rate is that high for 1st time students. 2nd time students usually end up passing if they don't change thier major first. Like I said though, it is the highest biology at my school. This is the last year that this particular teacher will be teaching at my school. Many people feel the same way as you though. The failure rate should not be that high. However, if you are in any kind of doubt as to what I am posting, try looking through an immunohematology text book and then try to imagine just how hard the class COULD BE if you ended up with a professor that expected you to know every little detail. BTW, by failing I mean lower than a 'c'. You have to get a C or better in the class to go to clinicals. Many people end up in the 'D' range and the professor does not curve. Her philosophy is that if you don't know your stuff, you can't go to clinicals. She is over the clinical program as well.

Makes more sense now. Good luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

Med schools are not going to be too impressed with a D no matter how hard the class is, I'm afraid. Such a medically related class is actually somewhat of an indicator of how you might fare taking similar material in med school. That's why I always suggest saving the medical courses for med school and use college to broaden your interests in other areas. That doesn't help you much though. sorry.

 

[relentless11]

Wow I didn't know such a class existed..haha. In my opinion, a C or D in the course will definately catch the eyes of the adcoms. If the course is that rigorous, where the mean is 38% on the midterm then that either means the professor sucks at teaching, or the students in the class did not have the proper preparation for the course.

Sadly, adcoms will never know if it was because of the professor, or due to the administration not requiring more pre-reqs for the class. The other sad part is, the class may be very similar to a med school course, and you will face stiff competition in med school. I took hematology, med immunology, and general pathology from our med school, and the means were around 85% or so.

At this point, if you get a C or D in the class, then that would "concern" the adcoms, but not destroy your application. The question is, what are the grades for your other classes? One blemish isn't too bad. A transcript full of C's and D's is REALLY bad.

I find it very interesting that the class is doing so poorly. Those hematology and immuno courses I took were some of the best courses I had this academic year. However I personally despise genetics😉.

 

[abcxyz0123]

ok you obviously go to a crap school because thats the only question you haven't answered. why else would a professor fail so many people in one course? do you honestly think that a professor would be able to pull off such a thing at a fairly reputable school?

 

[2Xtrouble2X]

this thread is obviously april fools im pretty sure

 

[Law2Doc]

this thread is obviously april fools im pretty sure

Except that it was started a day too early for that... 🙄

 

[2Xtrouble2X]

Except that it was started a day too early for that... 🙄

who knows?? hahaha if it is then it's the worst ive ever seen/heard

 

[clc8503]

ok you obviously go to a crap school because thats the only question you haven't answered. why else would a professor fail so many people in one course? do you honestly think that a professor would be able to pull off such a thing at a fairly reputable school?

LSU..... It's not the best, but it's definitely not the worst. However, I'm not sure if I understand the reason for your post. It sounds like you trying to attack me. Gotta love those internet tough guys who speak talk out there A$$. BTW, I said that there have been times in my schools history when so many have failed the class. This was when the class was first introduced to my school. The attrition rate is no longer as high as it use to be, but it is still above the norm. Also, take into consideration that it is an extremely advanced bio course for an undergrad, so it just seems natural to think that so many students could probably not hack it. It was not an April Fools post as a previous poster pointed out. I just wanted to know if a C in a 400 level biology would hurt me. Some of you have been helpful but others like "seth03" are just being jerks. Grow up. I only asked a simple question.

 

[2Xtrouble2X]

LSU..... It's not the best, but it's definitely not the worst. However, I'm not sure if I understand the reason for your post. It sounds like you trying to attack me. Gotta love those internet tough guys who speak talk out there A$$. BTW, I said that there have been times in my schools history when so many have failed the class. This was when the class was first introduced to my school. The attrition rate is no longer as high as it use to be, but it is still above the norm. Also, take into consideration that it is an extremely advanced bio course for an undergrad, so it just seems natural to think that so many students could probably not hack it. It was not an April Fools post as a previous poster pointed out. I just wanted to know if a C in a 400 level biology would hurt me. Some of you have been helpful but others like "seth03" are just being jerks. Grow up. I only asked a simple question.

i honestly wish you luck and that you choose what's best for you!! that class sounds discouraging to even take, but if you think you're a soldier i suggest you tough it out and do your best!!! you got what it takes--your professor is human and you can do what he can if you only put your mind into it...i bet that this class will help you to prepare mentally for medical school. Hope this motivates someone to go the distance!

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

If you make a C, then obviously don't worry about it. You can be accepted to any medical school with a few C's.

If you make a D, you will need to retake it. Most medical schools will be very skeptical of you with such a grade.

 

[clc8503]

i honestly wish you luck and that you choose what's best for you!! that class sounds discouraging to even take, but if you think you're a soldier i suggest you tough it out and do your best!!! you got what it takes--your professor is human and you can do what he can if you only put your mind into it...i bet that this class will help you to prepare mentally for medical school. Hope this motivates someone to go the distance!

Thanks for the encouragment. I just got my last exam back and I am finally up to a C in the class. The teacher told me today that if I can hold an exam average of a "C", do well in the lab and the get "A"s on the rest of my quizzes, I will be able to get a B in the class. I would like to thank all of you for the advice though.

 

[clc8503]

Recent update for whom it might concern. I made a C on the first exam in this class, and a B on the second and third exam. With my quiz grades combined in with this, I'm going to get an A in this class!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the comments.

 

[akinf]

I think a C in a 400-level course would seem to raise some flags. Typically, 300 and 400 level ourses are more understanding the material compared to 100 and 200 level, where it seems like it is just memorization and regurgitation. As well, I thought (I may be wrong though) students who make it to 300 and 400 level usually don't fail courses. In fact, at my school, there are very few students in those classes, and the class average is usually around a B/B+. Personally, I don't see a reason for ever getting anything below a C+, but it happens, everyone is different. But at the 400 level, there is really no reason to be getting grades below B, even if the course is incredibly hard. By the time you reach such advanced courses, your study skills should be at a level where you can even master subjects that may be beyond your scope at the beginning. There are jerk teachers, but that shouldn't make that much a difference. As well, a 90% fail rate, that class would be curved or the teacher would be relieved of the course responsibilities. So, to get back to your question, anything below a B at the 400 level, I imagine, would raise an eyebrow; but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

 

[silas2642]

I think a C in a 400-level course would seem to raise some flags. Typically, 300 and 400 level ourses are more understanding the material compared to 100 and 200 level, where it seems like it is just memorization and regurgitation. As well, I thought (I may be wrong though) students who make it to 300 and 400 level usually don't fail courses. In fact, at my school, there are very few students in those classes, and the class average is usually around a B/B+. Personally, I don't see a reason for ever getting anything below a C+, but it happens, everyone is different. But at the 400 level, there is really no reason to be getting grades below B, even if the course is incredibly hard. By the time you reach such advanced courses, your study skills should be at a level where you can even master subjects that may be beyond your scope at the beginning. There are jerk teachers, but that shouldn't make that much a difference. As well, a 90% fail rate, that class would be curved or the teacher would be relieved of the course responsibilities. So, to get back to your question, anything below a B at the 400 level, I imagine, would raise an eyebrow; but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

Shut up.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I think a C in a 400-level course would seem to raise some flags. Typically, 300 and 400 level ourses are more understanding the material compared to 100 and 200 level, where it seems like it is just memorization and regurgitation. As well, I thought (I may be wrong though) students who make it to 300 and 400 level usually don't fail courses. In fact, at my school, there are very few students in those classes, and the class average is usually around a B/B+. Personally, I don't see a reason for ever getting anything below a C+, but it happens, everyone is different. But at the 400 level, there is really no reason to be getting grades below B, even if the course is incredibly hard. By the time you reach such advanced courses, your study skills should be at a level where you can even master subjects that may be beyond your scope at the beginning. There are jerk teachers, but that shouldn't make that much a difference. As well, a 90% fail rate, that class would be curved or the teacher would be relieved of the course responsibilities. So, to get back to your question, anything below a B at the 400 level, I imagine, would raise an eyebrow; but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

I do. People who aren't gunners and pricks sometimes have other responsibilities that they must tend to, which affects their grades. Fortunately, these people are more often the better medical students (when these gunners get to the clinical years and get eaten alive.) The students who may have had lower grades in college actually have practical experience and common sense to excel in the clinical setting.

It's fun to watch these gunners squirm.

 

[relentless11]

I do. People who aren't gunners and pricks sometimes have other responsibilities that they must tend to, which affects their grades. Fortunately, these people are more often the better medical students (when these gunners get to the clinical years and get eaten alive.) The students who may have had lower grades in college actually have practical experience and common sense to excel in the clinical setting.

It's fun to watch these gunners squirm.

I would have to agree with this. Plenty of people get C's in lower and upper division classes, who still get into medical school. You may not hear about it much in public, since who really advertises that😉. As stated before, red flags would be habitually getting C's in upper division coursework, or getting D's and F's.

 

[percywilkins]

I do. People who aren't gunners and pricks sometimes have other responsibilities that they must tend to, which affects their grades. Fortunately, these people are more often the better medical students (when these gunners get to the clinical years and get eaten alive.) The students who may have had lower grades in college actually have practical experience and common sense to excel in the clinical setting.

It's fun to watch these gunners squirm.

Yes, all people who have high gpa's that aren't gunners must be pricks, right? 🙄

 

[OSUdoc08]

Yes, all people who have high gpa's that aren't gunners must be pricks, right? 🙄

People who make all A's & B's AND state that "there is no reason for anyone to make anything below a B" are in fact pricks, yes.

 

[Slide]

The more I read the forums, the more I'm realizing that a lot of posters are using this forum to vent their anger by attacking others. What ever happened to the helpful community?

Wow, a class like that sounds really scary. No curve, yet the average is failing? How is a professor like that even still teaching?

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Hahah, classic. At least some pre-allos have a sense of humor 👍

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hahah, classic. At least some pre-allos have a sense of humor 👍

Few......very few..........

 

[nebrfan]

I'm currently taking 'Immunohematolgy'. It is the highest level biology that is offered at my school. It entails an adequate understanding of hematology, genetics, cell biology, and immunolgy. The class average for the 1st exam was a 38%. I got a 62% and I believe I can only get a 'C' at best (maybe a 'd' though....scary!!!) Will med schools look down on my application if a do get a 'd' in a class so advanced? There have been times in my school's history that around 90% of the students in this class have failed. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?

I think you better learn how to push a broom - because you're obviously doomed to work as a janitor now.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

People who make all A's & B's AND state that "there is no reason FOR ANYONE to make anything below a B" are in fact pricks, yes.

The question is, are you one of them?

making C's and lower usually indicates that you failed to "play" the game correctly (granted there are the few courses that are legitimately hard). from my experience, if you kiss enough ass then you really won't get below a B due to favoritism and other factors. doing well in a course and actually learning the material to a point of obsession don't always go hand in hand. how do you do this: turn in work on time, goto class, make sure your prof knows you, be sure to at least have a guise of putting alot of effort into the class. hence, in the morning when I'm hungover/tired/whatever, I make it to class anyway since little things like that add up and help you. I often ask my friends who do poorly in some classes and the reason why they make C's and D's is that they are apathetic and it shows in their relationship with their professor and their complete lack of desire to learn the material. The point is that in most cases, if you make a C, you really didn't give a damn about the class and that you probably should reevaluate the purpose of receiving an education since you are wasting money by not putting forth any effort. gunners aside, maybe, its those people that know how to please professors/play the game correctly that will due well in clinical years, right OSUdoc?

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

The more I read the forums, the more I'm realizing that a lot of posters are using this forum to vent their anger by attacking others. What ever happened to the helpful community?

Have you ever thought that you were just being too cynical? I think you correlate helpfulness with something that is artificially sweetened. One may be helpful with the flat truth without the "GOOD LUCK!!!" "YOU'RE ARE A FANTASTIC PERSON AND I AM SO JEALOUS" etc tags after their initial comment. Different people have different ways of giving advice, some are extremely nice about it while some take a different route. If you don't like something, ignore it. It won't help you to get fustrated over something in a public forum. (I admit I should listen to my own advice sometimes)

Anyway, with the amount of drama that occurs, you would have to excuse a few people for blowing their gaskets. It is a universal right for a human being to get angry sometimes.

What did Baz Luhrmann say again?

Wear sunscreen, floss, and be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it.

 

[OSUdoc08]

making C's and lower usually indicates that you failed to "play" the game correctly (granted there are the few courses that are legitimately hard). from my experience, if you kiss enough ass then you really won't get below a B due to favoritism and other factors. doing well in a course and actually learning the material to a point of obsession don't always go hand in hand. how do you do this: turn in work on time, goto class, make sure your prof knows you, be sure to at least have a guise of putting alot of effort into the class. hence, in the morning when I'm hungover/tired/whatever, I make it to class anyway since little things like that add up and help you. I often ask my friends who do poorly in some classes and the reason why they make C's and D's is that they are apathetic and it shows in their relationship with their professor and their complete lack of desire to learn the material. The point is that in most cases, if you make a C, you really didn't give a damn about the class and that you probably should reevaluate the purpose of receiving an education since you are wasting money by not putting forth any effort. gunners aside, maybe, its those people that know how to please professors/play the game correctly that will due well in clinical years, right OSUdoc?

Correct. One additional comment, however. Some specific classes at my school were impossible to do well in by design. This specifically had to do with which professor was available that semester. If you did well, it either meant you were only taking other easy classes and had no free time whatsoever, or you are suited for a career in basic sciences research.

Fortunately, very little information learned in the basic sciences classes in college are actually useful in medical school.

 

[Slide]

Have you ever thought that you were just being too cynical? I think you correlate helpfulness with something that is artificially sweetened. One may be helpful with the flat truth without the "GOOD LUCK!!!" "YOU'RE ARE A FANTASTIC PERSON AND I AM SO JEALOUS" etc tags after their initial comment. Different people have different ways of giving advice, some are extremely nice about it while some take a different route. If you don't like something, ignore it. It won't help you to get fustrated over something in a public forum. (I admit I should listen to my own advice sometimes)

There's a good line between giving advice bluntly and just plain out attacking. I do realize that forums are open to all forms of comments, both good and bad, but just plain stupid, useless posts annoy me. Whatever, as you said, it's an online forum, and at the end of the day, nothing changes.

 

[kevin86]

you are getting a B and C on exams and you are able to get an A for the class, now who says there is no curve.

 

[akinf]

I do. People who aren't gunners and pricks sometimes have other responsibilities that they must tend to, which affects their grades. Fortunately, these people are more often the better medical students (when these gunners get to the clinical years and get eaten alive.) The students who may have had lower grades in college actually have practical experience and common sense to excel in the clinical setting.

It's fun to watch these gunners squirm.

I'm not sure how you study or what you learned from your first two years of university, but getting below a B is an indication that either you shouldn't be in that class, or you still haven't learned the proper time management and study skills in at least two and a half years of university. You don't have to be a gunner or anything else to realize that.

Shut up.

Outstanding. Please put up a real post next time.

People who make all A's & B's AND state that "there is no reason for anyone to make anything below a B" are in fact pricks, yes.

If you read my post carefully, you would have realized that I wrote that there is no reason for getting Bs at the 400 level. However, if you still think it's ok to get Bs at that level, then you may want to reconsider why you are in that class. Honestly, getting Bs at the 100 and 200 level is so common, I think it's foolish for you to think I would even imply, yet actually, post that. Getting Bs at the 300 level is a warranted mistake, but even that is bordering. Getting Bs at the 400 level shouldn't even be happening if you are serious about that class. Will that affect your chances of getting into med., probably not, but you should definitly be asked why you did so poorly in the class.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'm not sure how you study or what you learned from your first two years of university, but getting below a B is an indication that either you shouldn't be in that class, or you still haven't learned the proper time management and study skills in at least two and a half years of university. You don't have to be a gunner or anything else to realize that.




Outstanding. Please put up a real post next time.




If you read my post carefully, you would have realized that I wrote that there is no reason for getting Bs at the 400 level. However, if you still think it's ok to get Bs at that level, then you may want to reconsider why you are in that class. Honestly, getting Bs at the 100 and 200 level is so common, I think it's foolish for you to think I would even imply, yet actually, post that. Getting Bs at the 300 level is a warranted mistake, but even that is bordering. Getting Bs at the 400 level shouldn't even be happening if you are serious about that class. Will that affect your chances of getting into med., probably not, but you should definitly be asked why you did so poorly in the class.

You're right! Maybe I shouldn't be in medical school. Too bad I made a 4.0 this semester.

👎 👎 👎

 

[akinf]

You're right! Maybe I shouldn't be in medical school. Too bad I made a 4.0 this semester.

👎 👎 👎

You may as well not be, you go to OSU afterall.

 

[bbas]

I think a C in a 400-level course would seem to raise some flags. Typically, 300 and 400 level ourses are more understanding the material compared to 100 and 200 level, where it seems like it is just memorization and regurgitation. As well, I thought (I may be wrong though) students who make it to 300 and 400 level usually don't fail courses. In fact, at my school, there are very few students in those classes, and the class average is usually around a B/B+. Personally, I don't see a reason for ever getting anything below a C+, but it happens, everyone is different. But at the 400 level, there is really no reason to be getting grades below B, even if the course is incredibly hard. By the time you reach such advanced courses, your study skills should be at a level where you can even master subjects that may be beyond your scope at the beginning. There are jerk teachers, but that shouldn't make that much a difference. As well, a 90% fail rate, that class would be curved or the teacher would be relieved of the course responsibilities. So, to get back to your question, anything below a B at the 400 level, I imagine, would raise an eyebrow; but it shouldn't be the end all be all.

This doesn't make sense to me. I don't know how things are where you go to school, but here its usually the 100 level "memorize and regurgitate" courses that people do well in. The 400 level courses are numbered as such because they are significantly more difficult than the 100 level intro courses. In addition, many of the 400 level bio courses, for example, expand upon material learned previously in 100-300 level courses.

 

[akinf]

This doesn't make sense to me. I don't know how things are where you go to school, but here its usually the 100 level "memorize and regurgitate" courses that people do well in. The 400 level courses are numbered as such because they are significantly more difficult than the 100 level intro courses. In addition, many of the 400 level bio courses, for example, expand upon material learned previously in 100-300 level courses.

You are somewhat correct; 400-level courses are indeed more difficult and encompass more detail then 100 and 200 level courses, however, comparatively, they are easier. So, a 100 and 200 level course is harder for a first and second year, than a 300 and 400 level course is for a third year and fourth year. At least that is the general trend from what I have seen. As well, since you have advanced to essentially becoming a senior student, you study skills should be at a level at which learning and understanding the majority of material should no longer be a problem (even if the course is really hard). That is why I said getting below a B at the 400 level is unexcusable to me. If someone does happen to, they shouldn't have been in that class, or should not be in fourth year. You will rarely find 4th years getting straight As and A-s, then all-of-a-sudden, a C+/C in their fourth year. It just doesn't happen, and if I were on the adcom (which I am not), I would certainly be wondering what happened if I saw a grade like that in the 4th year. It would not be the end all and be all, but I'd certainly be curious and want an explanation.

 

[Mr. Tee]

I think you better learn how to push a broom - because you're obviously doomed to work as a janitor now.

wtf? the OP just said s/he is gonna get an A in the class.

 

[45408]

Course numbers are meaningless in terms of difficulty, IMO. The classes with the lowest grades I've got on my transcript were numbered 221, 315 and 356. I got A's in courses numbered 490, 570, 686, 680, and 699.

 

[akinf]

Course numbers are meaningless in terms of difficulty, IMO. The classes with the lowest grades I've got on my transcript were numbered 221, 315 and 356. I got A's in courses numbered 490, 570, 686, 680, and 699.

Well I'm not sure how your school numbers courses, but for the purposes of this thread, 100, 200, 300, 400 means first-year, second-year, third-year, and fourth-year, respectively.