What if MD's took the MCAT?

[ScutWork]

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If the AAMC polled a portion of practicing MD's and had them take the MCAT would they score better than us pre-med folk?

It is an interesting question and I am willing to bet their scores would be the same as when they took it the first time, years ago.

Medical school probably does not change your reasoning ability, just the amount of stuff cramed into your head.



...what if they scored worse than us on average? 😱😱😱

 

[deleted74029]

If the AAMC polled a portion of practicing MD's and had them take the MCAT would they score better than us pre-med folk?

It is an interesting question and I am willing to bet their scores would be the same as when they took it the first time, years ago.

Medical school probably does not change your reasoning ability, just the amount of stuff cramed into your head.



...what if they scored worse than us on average? 😱😱😱

I would bet they would score lower. Most docs who are attendings now took the MCAT over 10 years ago, and the average was like 26 or 27 for acceptances back then. So they'd probably get around a 21 or 22 now with no studying.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Scores would be ridiculously low. You don't realize while you're studying for it, but you will forget most physics, gen chem, ochem mechanisms, and specialized biology within a year or two of not looking at that stuff.

However, don't be disheartened by this, if you're currently studying. It feels goooooood to purge the brain! 😀 😎

 

[Vihsadas]

If the AAMC polled a portion of practicing MD's and had them take the MCAT would they score better than us pre-med folk?

It is an interesting question and I am willing to bet their scores would be the same as when they took it the first time, years ago.

Medical school probably does not change your reasoning ability, just the amount of stuff cramed into your head.



...what if they scored worse than us on average? 😱😱😱

They would almost all bomb it. Remember, the MCAT material mostly has nothing to do with medicine. The goal of the AAMC was to take information students should already know from their university studies and judge their aptitude to learn medicine including critical thinking skills, reading comprehension and comfort with scientific problem solving...In reality you could do that with almost any subject material in the sciences. It doesn't hae to be PCBO. It seems like you might be forgetting that the MCAT has pretty much nothing to do with actually practicing medicine, so it wouldn't matter if they scored worse than us.

 

[MossPoh]

My dad never even took the mcat. It didn't start to become a factor until the mid 60s and even then it wasn't that important. The last 20 years have really seen a huge boost in its importance. One of the docs I shadowed said that his "studying" for the mcat involved sitting in a bar with friends and quizzing each other over beers.

That being said, my dad is a radiologist now and would probably get about an 18 on the mcat. Heck, he doesn't even remember most of the stuff from medical school that is not of importance to him now.

 

[ScutWork]

...It seems like you might be forgetting that the MCAT has pretty much nothing to do with actually practicing medicine...

Thanks for the clarification on that V.

It just seems that a test that is supposed to MAKE doctors should be scored well on by doctors, and we all seem to be in agreement that they wouldn't.

I believe it to be an interesting paradox. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[tncekm]

Thanks for the clarification on that V.

It just seems that a test that is supposed to MAKE doctors should be scored well on by doctors, and we all seem to be in agreement that they wouldn't.

I believe it to be an interesting paradox. Nothing more, nothing less.

It doesn't "make" doctors, it "weeds" people 😀 That's really it. Something like 75-80k people take the MCAT each year and there are somewhere in the realm of 15k seats. It's much easier to get a 3.5 than it is a 30+ on the MCAT. Its the great equalizer/weeder of the process.

 

[ScutWork]

Okay, I do see your point that MCAT weeds out applicants much the same as secondary fees weeds people out (think about that one for a sec). Although, this is a glass half full/glass half empty way of looking at it. Bottom line, if you score well you are in. The rest of the application is a cake walk any one can do.

I am just saying that if those that are already residents, attendings, etc. have made the cut then, surely they should score well on the "admissions test"... right?

 

[tncekm]

Okay, I do see your point that MCAT weeds out applicants much the same as secondary fees weeds people out (think about that one for a sec). Although, this is a glass half full/glass half empty way of looking at it. Bottom line, if you score well you are in. The rest of the application is a cake walk any one can do.

I am just saying that if those that are already residents, attendings, etc. have made the cut then, surely they should score well on the "admissions test"... right?

Don't get complacent and find comfort in thinking that if you score well you're in. I've been complete forever, have a 33 (which was the lowest score I'd ever received after I finished my content review) with a 3.75 and have ZERO interview invites so far.

This part of the application isn't as difficult as prepping for the MCAT, but it sure has been much more demoralizing.

 

[ILikeFood]

It just seems that a test that is supposed to MAKE doctors should be scored well on by doctors, and we all seem to be in agreement that they wouldn't.

I believe it to be an interesting paradox. Nothing more, nothing less.

The MCAT is an aptitude test used to thin out the herd; what it "makes" is competitive applicants, and therefore it's competitve applicants that should score well on it. If practicing doctors took it and didn't score well, it'd be because:

1) They don't care. They're practicing doctors.
2) If they actually considered your ridiculous question and decided to write it, they'd need time to prep. A majority of applicants today do content review, practice tests, and sometimes a prep course to stand a chance. Some don't do well despite all this AND recently completing the prerequistes. Hell, someone who scored high six months ago might score low on a retake.
3) The present day MCAT varies in the breakdown of subjects covered from test date to test date.


My point is your question is ******ed because whether they score well (and they could very well kill the test given the right preparation) or not is a moot point. It would be an interesting paradox if there was a paradox.

I am just saying that if those that are already residents, attendings, etc. have made the cut then, surely they should score well on the "admissions test"... right?

Are you high?

They scored well enough on the admissions test when they were premeds trying to gain admission. That's all that matters.

 

[take the shot]

My husband took the MCAT something like 20 years ago and he absolutely raged on it, getting like 14s in everything. When he looked at my practice tests, he couldn't believe how strange and convoluted the questions were. He said that when he took it you were expected to know all the same material, but the questions were more similar to straight forward tough questions you would see on undergrad science exams. Gee, just imagine being tested on your knowledge base instead of trying to "learn" how to take the MCAT. He is an awesome doc, very smart, and he told me he would suck if he had to take the test now and not just because it has been a long time since he reviewed the material. He tried to do some of my verbal and got half the questions wrong. They didn't even have verbal or writing on his test, only the sciences.

 

[Roy7]

I choose to disagree, if you told an attending to study for the MCAT's and take it - and lent the test the same importance it gives now (say you made the MCAT a liscencure exam), they would destroy it.

Going through medical school if anything, gives you the ability to know how to study hard. I crushed the MCATs, and it was nothing compared to Step 1. If I had to take the MCAT's now, w/my new work-ethic, I would do enormously better. I studied 3-4 hrs a day for the MCAT's for say 4 months. Step 1, 12-16 for 3.

The MCAT tests reasoning ability w/application of fundamental principles. Sure most attendings have forgotten those principles, but their reasoning hasnt gotten worse.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

I choose to disagree, if you told an attending to study for the MCAT's and take it - and lent the test the same importance it gives now (say you made the MCAT a liscencure exam), they would destroy it.

This is obvious, and NOBODY has argued against it. The argument nearly everyone has made is that if you took a random doc out of their clinical practice for 5 hours, sat them in front of a CBT terminal, and said "GO," he or she would not do well.

Of course if you raised the stakes and gave some prep time (which is the situation for pre-meds), they could crush it. They wouldn't all crush it, but many would.

 

[xanthomondo]

It doesn't "make" doctors, it "weeds" people 😀 That's really it. Something like 75-80k people take the MCAT each year and there are somewhere in the realm of 15k seats. It's much easier to get a 3.5 than it is a 30+ on the MCAT. Its the great equalizer/weeder of the process.

N=67k for all of 2007, and that includes people who took it multiple times. I don't think the number of people taking it is that high

 

[kish180]

alot of doctors struggle with the boards when they're far out of med school, and that is an exam that's based on med school knowledge and (in theory) clinical knowledge that they've been steadily gaining over time. im sure taking an exam based on undergrad knowledge would be almost impossible. I know I'd probably bomb the SAT II's if I had to take them again, and I learned that stuff only like 4 years ago

 

[tncekm]

N=67k for all of 2007, and that includes people who took it multiple times. I don't think the number of people taking it is that high

Meh, it was a rough estimate. I just checked the stats on the AAMC's site from 2007, and yeah it was about 68K. 68K vs. ~75-80 isn't THAT big of a difference.

 

[ScutWork]

Outstanding commentary and I thank those of you who have offered a lucid prospective. On the other hand, I am truly sorry to those I have somehow offended, me-maties... argghhh! I really hope you did not go off and kick your dog after getting so upset about my "******ed and ridiculous" question.

...correct me if I'm wrong but, this is a forum for individual thought and lighthearted discussion, right?

BTW

Thanks for upholding my point...

Are you high?

They scored well enough on the admissions test when they were premeds trying to gain admission. That's all that matters.

So, the test basically MADE them doctors!

 

[Mr. Tee]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that practicing MDs would do really well on the MCAT, overall. The material tested on the MCAT is very basic, essential stuff that medicine is based on. Doctors spent their whole life immersed in learning, and being motivated at that. So if doctors really had to, they could study and prepare really well for the MCAT. And that whole "lifetime learning" thing keeps your noggin sharp.

 

[Harry Bahgina]

The MCAT is an aptitude test used to thin out the herd; what it "makes" is competitive applicants, and therefore it's competitve applicants that should score well on it. If practicing doctors took it and didn't score well, it'd be because:

1) They don't care. They're practicing doctors.
2) If they actually considered your ridiculous question and decided to write it, they'd need time to prep. A majority of applicants today do content review, practice tests, and sometimes a prep course to stand a chance. Some don't do well despite all this AND recently completing the prerequistes. Hell, someone who scored high six months ago might score low on a retake.
3) The present day MCAT varies in the breakdown of subjects covered from test date to test date.


My point is your question is ******ed because whether they score well (and they could very well kill the test given the right preparation) or not is a moot point. It would be an interesting paradox if there was a paradox.


Are you high?

They scored well enough on the admissions test when they were premeds trying to gain admission. That's all that matters.

Guy, u are a kiss azz. And don't even know what or who's azz ur kissing yet

 

[DrYoda]

What if Steven Hawking took the MCAT? Do you think a wormhole would open?

 

[Vihsadas]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that practicing MDs would do really well on the MCAT, overall. The material tested on the MCAT is very basic, essential stuff that medicine is based on. Doctors spent their whole life immersed in learning, and being motivated at that. So if doctors really had to, they could study and prepare really well for the MCAT. And that whole "lifetime learning" thing keeps your noggin sharp.

If they are given time to study, no doubt, they would kill the pre-med average, just by the virtue of the fact that about 50% of us don't make it, but 100% of then did. 😛

If they didn't have time to study, however, (which I know isn't what you were saying), there would be no contest...It all takes practice, and you forget things over time.

 

[ILikeFood]

Thanks for upholding my point...


So, the test basically MADE them doctors!

What a comeback. I applaud thee. You don't seem to understand that I'm right and you are wrong, so I will reiterate.

Your original statement in a nutshell: What if practicing MD's took the current MCAT? How would they perform compared to the premeds today?

My response: What a dumb question. But I'll entertain you: It depends.

You elaborating: The MCAT makes doctors, therefore practicing doctors should score well on it. Yet we ALL agree that they wouldn't. What an interesting paradox!!!

My response: No, it doesn't make doctors. The MCAT can make people competitive applicants to medical school. That's it. Stop thinking like a simpleton.

You restating the same thing: Since current residents and attending made the cut, shouldn't they do well on the current MCAT?

My response: They made the cut by doing well on the MCAT they took.

Guy, u are a kiss azz. And don't even know what or who's azz ur kissing yet

Idk wtf ur talking about.

 

[ILikeFood]

Victory dance!

 

[iA-MD2013]

Let's keep the discussion in this thread civil.

 

[ScutWork]

😎

What a comeback. I applaud thee.

Thank you! 🙂

😎

I'll entertain you: It depends.

Not doing too good.

😎

My response: No, it doesn't make doctors.

I guess ya missed the metaphor boat matey.

😎

You restating the same thing: Since current residents and attending made the cut, shouldn't they do well on the current MCAT?

My response: They made the cut by doing well on the MCAT they took.

Thanks for the blow by blow. I am really sorry this is happening to you.

 

[ILikeFood]

Excuse me, I thought the internet was a serious business.

Why aren't my logical responses being answered in a logical way? I thought this was the internet.

 

[Sophitia]

with both of my parents being doctors, i guess i can answer this.

my father, being an anesthesiologist, knows some of the pressure/gas stuff we had to know. his interest in all things engineering-related adds to his somewhat ok physics knowledge.

my mother on the other hand, would most likely bomb the test. not because she isn't smart, but because the material the mcat tests isn't stuff that she needs to know to succeed in her work. BUT, then again, my mom became a doctor first in india, then in england (moved), then in the u.s. (she had to take the usmle's) because my dad was here after coming here from india as a doctor.

so i don't think ALL of em would do well 😛 some might. some won't. some...are iffy

😛

 

[Roy7]

I dont really get the argument here. Of course anyone w/no MCAT preparation is going to fail it.

If you took the MCAT w/out studying, you'd do badly, same w/a physician. If you you prepared, and gave the MD prepratory time, you both would do well.

What's the debate? I'm a good 4 years out of the MCAT and I know for a fact if I had to take it in a month, I would demolish it (well at least get the same score as before) - simply by virtue of knowing how to work harder.

 

[silverlion]

They wont just bomb it....In most cases (IMO) they'll nuke it...

I'm in India right now and met a guy who finished the MBBS program here a year ago...He had trouble remembering how to define atomic numbers and atomic mass...He's pretty good with the stuff he's studied over the last five years but all the physics, Ochem and Chem is Gone!! (Apart from the very basic stuff I guess...)

No offense though....I agree with all the people here who point out that its basically because of all the years in between without revisiting the specific information (which of course is of no use to anyone at that point)