What if you're not a URM, but lived a "struggling life"

[0TopCat0]

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So, I'm asian. I know we are actually over-represented, which seems weird to me because the majority of the medical students I know are caucasian.


Anyways, what if you lived a life synonymous to what a URM might experience? (bad neighborhood, poverty, etc. etc.)


If you write about this in your personal statement, talk about how it affected you during interviews, blablabla., is it nearly as significant as actually being a URM? (wow, I almost put "an" right there, english is goofy)


Or is the URM status only effective because the URMs can relate to minorities others can not?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

So, I'm asian. I know we are actually over-represented, which seems weird to me because the majority of the medical students I know are caucasian.


Anyways, what if you lived a life synonymous to what a URM might experience? (bad neighborhood, poverty, etc. etc.)


If you write about this in your personal statement, talk about how it affected you during interviews, blablabla., is it nearly as significant as actually being a URM? (wow, I almost put "an" right there, english is goofy)


Or is the URM status only effective because the URMs can relate to minorities others can not?

You can apply as disadvantaged for economic, education, and medically underserved reasons. If you apply as economic disadvantage you better be able to qualify for the fee assistance program otherwise that may not fly.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I think a lot of schools would recognize these kinds of experiences even if you aren't a URM. This would work great with those "diversity" questions on secondaries. Growing up in such conditions gives you a certain perspective on life and healthcare that people growing up with doctor parents (or simply college-educated parents) just don't have.

 

[TheShaker]

A lot of schools have the "is there anything more you want to tell us?" question on their secondaries so I suggest that you save it for that. Personally, I've come from the whole low income immigrant background and used that and so far 2 out of my 3 interviews are coming from schools where I gave that essay. Not coincidentally, those two schools value either applicant diversity or serving the underserved.

I don't think that your story will help you to the extent that URM status will help an applicant but it will definitely go a long way with the right school.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

So, I'm asian. I know we are actually over-represented, which seems weird to me because the majority of the medical students I know are caucasian.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of over-represented then

 

[Lollygag]

I'm sure it will give you an edge over the regular asian that applies but I think a disadvantaged african american will ordinarily get more of an edge over a disadvantaged asian. Of course its all situational though.

 

[deleted480308]

Welcome to being on the wrong side of an ironically racially biased system justified by the concept of racial equality. Just worry about the stuff you can change (gpa/mcat etc)

 

[0TopCat0]

You obviously don't understand the meaning of over-represented then

I know my statement was overly-simplified, I'm just saying, it's weird because I never see any asian doctors/med-students but I see plenty caucasian ones. I know that isn't to say it doesn't exist or that the majority of asians don't choose to go into health-care 😀

 

[sector9]

I know my statement was overly-simplified, I'm just saying, it's weird because I never see more asian doctors/med-students then I do caucasians. I know that isn't to say it doesn't exist or that the majority of asians don't choose to go into health-care 😀

I'm still not sure you're understanding what overrepresented means. It does not mean a majority, a plurality, nor does it really have any relationship with the number of caucasians

It means that there is a higher percentage of physicians who are Asian than there is in the general population

So if 5% of the US was Na'vi, and 15% of physicians were Na'vi, then Na'vi are overrepresented in medicine.

 

[911 Turbo]

I'm still not sure you're understanding what overrepresented means. It does not mean a majority, a plurality, nor does it really have any relationship with the number of caucasians

It means that there is a higher percentage of physicians who are Asian than there is in the general population

So if 5% of the US was Na'vi, and 15% of physicians were Na'vi, then Na'vi are overrepresented in medicine.

When someone says Na'vi I think DOTA not avatar lol

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I know my statement was overly-simplified, I'm just saying, it's weird because I never see more asian doctors/med-students then I do caucasians. I know that isn't to say it doesn't exist or that the majority of asians don't choose to go into health-care 😀

Ha that's still not what it means.

Over represented means that there are 3x as many asian medical students as there are asians in the general population. Thus, they are over represented based on what you would expected from a general population distribution. You are correct that there are not more asians than caucasians in medical school or in medical practice.

 

[Lollygag]

Ha that's still not what it means.

Over represented means that there are 3x as many asian medical students as there are asians in the general population. Thus, they are over represented based on what you would expected from a general population distribution. You are correct that there are not more asians than caucasians in medical school or in medical practice.

I guess I'm just slow but I didn't get it until now lol that makes sense.

 

[0TopCat0]

No I know what it meant, maybe I'm just wording my sentences poorly. That's what I was trying to say when I said "That isn't to say that the majority of asians don't choose to go into medicine"


I might've said health-care though

 

[0TopCat0]

Over represented means that there are 3x as many asian medical students as there are asians in the general population.

and by that you mean % wise, right? I'm starting to feel mental after this thread

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

and by that you mean % wise, right? I'm starting to feel mental after this thread

Haha yes percentage-wise. So percentage of medical school students vs. percentage in general population.

That still has nothing to do with "the majority of asians going into medicine" although I'm still not sure what you meant by that sentence considering it was a double negative.

 

[0TopCat0]

It doesn't? (never thought i'd be getting a english grammar lesson from a med student)

By "That isn't to say the majority of asians don't choose to go into medicine"

I meant, I don't mean that I think the majority of asians don't go into medicine.

 

[EnergyDrink]

Edit: best to stay out of URM thread.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

It doesn't? (never thought i'd be getting a english grammar lesson from a med student)

By "That isn't to say the majority of asians don't choose to go into medicine"

I meant, I don't mean that I think the majority of asians don't go into medicine.

Alright you can stop trollin now.

Anyway the concept of the majority of asians doing anything has nothing to do with the concept of over-representation so just keep those separate from now on.

 

[0TopCat0]

Alright you can stop trollin now.

Anyway the concept of the majority of asians doing anything has nothing to do with the concept of over-representation so just keep those separate from now on.

I'm not trolling? lol


You told me my sentence didn't make sense, and I'm sincerely confused on why that is?

I don't understand why you're getting mad, thanks though

 

[Hemorrage]

Ha that's still not what it means.

Over represented means that there are 3x as many asian medical students as there are asians in the general population. Thus, they are over represented based on what you would expected from a general population distribution. You are correct that there are not more asians than caucasians in medical school or in medical practice.

Right because the med students outweigh the general population right? Quit trolling. Asians work hard that's the only reason why they are ORM. That being said, everyone has that capacity too. Unless there's some Asian specific MCAT or GPA gene your argument is pathetic

 

[0TopCat0]

Right because the med students outweigh the general population right? Quit trolling. Asians work hard that's the only reason why they are ORM. That being said, everyone has that capacity too. Unless there's some Asian specific MCAT or GPA gene your argument is pathetic

He meant percentage wise

 

[0TopCat0]

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to throw around the "troll" word on here, especially med students.

 

[487806]

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to throw around the "troll" word on here, especially med students.

Probably because pre-allo is filled with trolls, "patriotic premeds" and overly excited premeds who are clueless on what they are talking about.

 

[0TopCat0]

Probably because pre-allo is filled with trolls, "patriotic premeds" and overly excited premeds who are clueless on what they are talking about.

What is a patriotic pre-med?? lol

 

[MedPR]

So, I'm asian. I know we are actually over-represented, which seems weird to me because the majority of the medical students I know are caucasian.


Anyways, what if you lived a life synonymous to what a URM might experience? (bad neighborhood, poverty, etc. etc.)


If you write about this in your personal statement, talk about how it affected you during interviews, blablabla., is it nearly as significant as actually being a URM? (wow, I almost put "an" right there, english is goofy)


Or is the URM status only effective because the URMs can relate to minorities others can not?

You should use "an" before urm. But no. URM is for minorities in medicine. Not Asians who weren't pampered.

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[MedPR]

Right because the med students outweigh the general population right? Quit trolling. Asians work hard that's the only reason why they are ORM. That being said, everyone has that capacity too. Unless there's some Asian specific MCAT or GPA gene your argument is pathetic

Hard work isn't the only reason they are orm.

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[mzarrowsmith]

Anyways, what if you lived a life synonymous to what a URM might experience?(bad neighborhood, poverty, etc. etc.)

Boom. Right there in bold. Herein lies the supreme fallacy of the URM phenomenon. Not all pre-professional URM's are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Many are very well off, in fact. This is why if we are serious about diversity that goes deeper than skin, socioeconomic status should replace ethnicity as a factor in admission decisions.

 

[MedPR]

Boom. Right there in bold. Herein lies the supreme fallacy of the URM phenomenon. Not all pre-professional URM's are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Many are very well off, in fact. This is why if we are serious about diversity that goes deeper than skin, socioeconomic status should replace ethnicity as a factor in admission decisions.

Yup.

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[calvnandhobbs68]

Right because the med students outweigh the general population right? Quit trolling. Asians work hard that's the only reason why they are ORM. That being said, everyone has that capacity too. Unless there's some Asian specific MCAT or GPA gene your argument is pathetic

What are you talking about? I gave the definition of what an over-represented minority is. Another medical student gave essentially the exact same definition a couple posts above me. It's not some novel idea.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to throw around the "troll" word on here, especially med students.

I had said that before because I thought you were trying to get me to argue with you about grammar...which I don't do.

 

[Geebeejay]

URM isn't a term that describes poverty or growing up in a troubled hood. It's a term that only applies to certain races that aren't as well represented in medicine. You can tell your story, and it might help your case (overcoming struggle), but whether or not it is similar to someone who is URM is irrelevant.

 

[0TopCat0]

URM isn't a term that describes poverty or growing up in a troubled hood. It's a term that only applies to certain races that aren't as well represented in medicine. You can tell your story, and it might help your case (overcoming struggle), but whether or not it is similar to someone who is URM is irrelevant.

I know, I was just asking if that is really what stands out for URM's, or if it's the fact that they can represent those minorities most physicians in medicine can't


which is why i said a life a URM MIGHT experience 😉

 

[0TopCat0]

Boom. Right there in bold. Herein lies the supreme fallacy of the URM phenomenon. Not all pre-professional URM's are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Many are very well off, in fact. This is why if we are serious about diversity that goes deeper than skin, socioeconomic status should replace ethnicity as a factor in admission decisions.

I agree with you 😀

 

[MedPR]

I know, I was just asking if that is really what stands out for URM's, or if it's the fact that they can represent those minorities most physicians in medicine can't


which is why i said a life a URM MIGHT experience 😉

URM is purely racial. You can be the lovechild of the two richest people on the planet but if you are black, native American, or specific forms of Hispanic you are a URM.

Likewise you could have eaten one meal a week for your whole life, but if you are Asian or white you are ORM. Disadvantaged, but still ORM.
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[0TopCat0]

I had said that before because I thought you were trying to get me to argue with you about grammar...which I don't do.

I C I C

no, I wasn't lol



thanks for your input though

 

[Jarudy]

http://www.whatsrace.org/images/privwalk-long.pdf
Do this and see if you're disadvantaged.

 

[Belle Melodie]

URM is purely racial. You can be the lovechild of the two richest people on the planet but if you are black, native American, or specific forms of Hispanic you are a URM.

Likewise you could have eaten one meal a week for your whole life, but if you are Asian or white you are ORM. Disadvantaged, but still ORM.
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Can we put this in a Sticky? I mean how many URM threads are we going to see this season?

You could not have said it better!

 

[Plue00]

How come we never see people try to limit Jews from entering the media/entertainment business... they're definitely overrepresented 🙄

More Asians in the NBA/NFL plz, less blacks in them plz

Just kidding, I'm Asian and I actually support Affirmative Action. Take some income and diversity classes in relation to higher education and you'll see what I mean.

 

[487806]

Can we put this in a Sticky? I mean how many URM threads are we going to see this season?

You could not have said it better!

Agreed. There should also be a sticky on MD vs DO vs Podiatry, just to resolve these useless debate threads.

 

[0TopCat0]

Agreed. There should also be a sticky on MD vs DO vs Podiatry, just to resolve these useless debate threads.

This wasn't a debate thread

 

[MedPR]

This wasn't a debate thread

Yes it was

 

[Geebeejay]

I know, I was just asking if that is really what stands out for URM's, or if it's the fact that they can represent those minorities most physicians in medicine can't


which is why i said a life a URM MIGHT experience 😉

A life a URM might experience is not the same as being a URM. Med Schools aren't looking for URMs because of their experience....this seems to be mostly a racial/cultural thing (I simplified it a bit). The experience will help them like you, but it won't make you equivalent to a URM.

 

[0TopCat0]

A life a URM might experience is not the same as being a URM. Med Schools aren't looking for URMs because of their experience....this seems to be mostly a racial/cultural thing (I simplified it a bit). The experience will help them like you, but it won't make you equivalent to a URM.

I C I C,

thanks 😀

 

[ModernAlchemist]

http://medschoolapphell.tumblr.com/post/37444254348/every-sdn-thread-with-urm-in-the-title

URM is purely racial. You can be the lovechild of the two richest people on the planet but if you are black, native American, or specific forms of Hispanic you are a URM.

Likewise you could have eaten one meal a week for your whole life, but if you are Asian or white you are ORM. Disadvantaged, but still ORM.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Agreed. There should also be a sticky on MD vs DO vs Podiatry, just to resolve these useless debate threads.

 

[MedPR]

http://medschoolapphell.tumblr.com/post/37444254348/every-sdn-thread-with-urm-in-the-title

 

[Barcu]

Boom. Right there in bold. Herein lies the supreme fallacy of the URM phenomenon. Not all pre-professional URM's are from low socioeconomic backgrounds. Many are very well off, in fact. This is why if we are serious about diversity that goes deeper than skin, socioeconomic status should replace ethnicity as a factor in admission decisions.

URM status is not used solely to accept students from disadvantaged backgrounds, though it does that to some degree. But if that was the sole reason, adcoms would just use SES. The goal is to select a physician population that best represents the patient population, which has proven benefits.

I'm not trying to escalate this again. I don't care whether you agree or not. And unlike the last time this happened, I am going to back out after this post (I'm busier these days). I'm just trying to clear up a common misconception. I agree with you that SES could be a factor too, but it wouldn't replace URM. SES wouldn't accomplish the same purpose.

 

[0TopCat0]

URM status is not used solely to accept students from disadvantaged backgrounds, though it does that to some degree. But if that was the sole reason, adcoms would just use SES. The goal is to select a physician population that best represents the patient population, which has proven benefits.

I'm not trying to escalate this again. I don't care whether you agree or not. And unlike the last time this happened, I am going to back out after this post (I'm busier these days). I'm just trying to clear up a common misconception. I agree with you that SES could be a factor too, but it wouldn't replace URM. SES wouldn't accomplish the same purpose.

I see, I had no idea which is why I asked, I really just wanted to know how significant that background could me, so I don't have anything to disagree with, as I'm still learning about it.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

URM status is not used solely to accept students from disadvantaged backgrounds, though it does that to some degree. But if that was the sole reason, adcoms would just use SES. The goal is to select a physician population that best represents the patient population, which has proven benefits.

I'm not trying to escalate this again. I don't care whether you agree or not. And unlike the last time this happened, I am going to back out after this post (I'm busier these days). I'm just trying to clear up a common misconception. I agree with you that SES could be a factor too, but it wouldn't replace URM. SES wouldn't accomplish the same purpose.

I think you have me confused with someone equally handsome. I don't think we've ever argued about this before. But yeah, let's just disagree.

 

[beyondhuman]

You can apply as disadvantaged for economic, education, and medically underserved reasons. If you apply as economic disadvantage you better be able to qualify for the fee assistance program otherwise that may not fly.[/QUOTE]

This is not necessarily true. Disadvantaged status is based on your lifetime socioeconomic status not your current status. If for example after a lifetime of being raised by a single mother working at McD's she just got married and your family income has bumped up you can still definitely qualify. Also the FAP program is totally based on your income tax (income and # of dependents) these things can vary year to year in some situations such as having divorced parents and might make you unable to qualify in a specific year even though you would still be counted as disadvantaged.

 

[Barcu]

I see, I had no idea which is why I asked, I really just wanted to know how significant that background could me, so I don't have anything to disagree with, as I'm still learning about it.

I was addressing more of another point than yours. For you, your disadvantaged background can be a benefit and something that can help in essays and interviews. But it's not the same as URM.

I think you have me confused with someone equally handsome. I don't think we've ever argued about this before. But yeah, let's just disagree.

Sorry. It wasn't you last time, but I got pulled into a URM thread a few months back. Not looking for that. We can disagree.