What is a "Borderline" canidate for DO?

[GypsyHummus]

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Hi everyone,

I was looking around the forums and I saw a thread discussing the cases of "Borderline candidates" for MD schools and I was wondering, by an arbitrary definition, what type of student would be a borderline applicant for DO schools? Where a case when applying early (June 1st) having a letter for a DO, and something unique, would push the applicant into the range of an acceptance?

I have heard various things about DO schools from my Uncles (All MDs) and from premed advisers about it being easy and a "back up" for MD schools. I know DO is no cakewalk, unlike what my family may say. Maybe 10 years ago, but now it is starting to get competitive. Now that I'm taking classes and working my tail end off, I'm figuring out for myself that if I keep the DO door open, then they might give me a chance at become a doctor when MD schools wont. Then again I wont know until I apply. Maybe DO schools wont like me and an MD school would.

Do DO schools in particular tend to look at more than the numbers. Is this true, or just BS? Would someone with around c3.5 or 3.6 and 3.2s GPA with a 26 MCAT be considered teetering on acceptance or rejection?

I guess this isnt a What are my chances, I would just like to know what uphill battle I'm up against If I wanna go DO. I like that DOs can go into AOA residencies as well as MD, and I like that I can apply early decision for my State's MD school and still apply to as many DO schools to maximize my chances.

I guess its all about maximizing the chances huh? Also, would majoring in Exercise science hurt my chances as opposed to majoring in biology? I like Exercise science more than bio, but it is not as rigorous. I'm not sure how DO schools feel about that, I know that MD schools look down on it unless you have stellar MCAT scores.

Just trying to keep every door open 🙂

 

[UTsksk]

Hi everyone,

I was looking around the forums and I saw a thread discussing the cases of "Borderline candidates" for MD schools and I was wondering, by an arbitrary definition, what type of student would be a borderline applicant for DO schools? Where a case when applying early (June 1st) having a letter for a DO, and something unique, would push the applicant into the range of an acceptance?

I have heard various things about DO schools from my Uncles (All MDs) and from premed advisers about it being easy and a "back up" for MD schools. I know DO is no cakewalk, unlike what my family may say. Maybe 10 years ago, but now it is starting to get competitive. Now that I'm taking classes and working my tail end off, I'm figuring out for myself that if I keep the DO door open, then they might give me a chance at become a doctor when MD schools wont. Then again I wont know until I apply. Maybe DO schools wont like me and an MD school would.

Do DO schools in particular tend to look at more than the numbers. Is this true, or just BS? Would someone with around c3.5 or 3.6 and 3.2s GPA with a 26 MCAT be considered teetering on acceptance or rejection?

I guess this isnt a What are my chances, I would just like to know what uphill battle I'm up against If I wanna go DO. I like that DOs can go into AOA residencies as well as MD, and I like that I can apply early decision for my State's MD school and still apply to as many DO schools to maximize my chances.

I guess its all about maximizing the chances huh? Also, would majoring in Exercise science hurt my chances as opposed to majoring in biology? I like Exercise science more than bio, but it is not as rigorous. I'm not sure how DO schools feel about that, I know that MD schools look down on it unless you have stellar MCAT scores.

Just trying to keep every door open 🙂

From what I've seen here, plenty of people have gotten in with similar stats so I guess you have a shot. I way I see it, numbers matter to all schools or else they wouldn't have cut offs. As far are your coursework, if you have the pre-reqs done then you're ok. Of course the more upper science the better.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

3.5/26 would put you at around last years average for accepted students. It basically means that if you apply early and apply broadly you'll have a decent chance of being accepted, especially so at the schools with lower averages.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

a 3.5ish with a 26 right now is moderately competitive. It is good enough to get an acceptance or two, but not good enough to get multiple acceptances from the established "top" DO schools. Understand this is generally speaking. You could very well get multiple acceptances to all top DO schools, but just looking at the numbers, that is what we are talking about.

Also, this is assuming you apply early.

 

[TwinsFan]

From the two osteopathic schools I've talked to it would seem numbers are more of a qualifier and EC/life experiences tend to take the cake. They will happily select a well rounded student with good numbers over a cookie cutter premed with higher numbers. Obviously they're looking for balance, so it won't be all 22 yr olds or all nontrads, but having quality experiences you are passionate about is a must.

For a typical applicant I would say you need the following to be minimally competitive (based on the data for ~10-15 percentile of matriculants):

Osteo - 3.2+ cgpa / 3.1+ sgpa / 24+ MCAT
Allo - 3.4+ cgpa / 3.3+ sgpa / 27+ MCAT

 

[Goro]

It will depend upon the school. The numbers below are at the very bottom of what's acceptable for us. Our avg matriculant will be somewhere around 3.4-3.5 and MCAT of 28-29. We may crack 30 this year.

From the two osteopathic schools I've talked to it would seem numbers are more of a qualifier and EC/life experiences tend to take the cake. They will happily select a well rounded student with good numbers over a cookie cutter premed with higher numbers. Obviously they're looking for balance, so it won't be all 22 yr olds or all nontrads, but having quality experiences you are passionate about is a must.

For a typical applicant I would say you need the following to be minimally competitive (based on the data for ~10-15 percentile of matriculants):

Osteo - 3.2+ cgpa / 3.1+ sgpa / 24+ MCAT
QUOTE]

 

[dntke1518]

a 3.5ish with a 26 right now is moderately competitive. It is good enough to get an acceptance or two, but not good enough to get multiple acceptances from the established "top" DO schools. Understand this is generally speaking. You could very well get multiple acceptances to all top DO schools, but just looking at the numbers, that is what we are talking about.

Also, this is assuming you apply early.

Applying early for sure... also will depend on what else the applicant brings to the table i.e ECs and experience.

 

[TwinsFan]

It will depend upon the school. The numbers below are at the very bottom of what's acceptable for us. Our avg matriculant will be somewhere around 3.4-3.5 and MCAT of 28-29. We may crack 30 this year.

That's good to know that your school also matches up with those numbers as minimally competitive (about the lowest you would ever want to apply with).

Would a 3.5cgpa / 3.4 sgpa / 27MCAT (avg matriculant) be considered fairly competitive for your school?

 

[GypsyHummus]

a 3.5ish with a 26 right now is moderately competitive. It is good enough to get an acceptance or two, but not good enough to get multiple acceptances from the established "top" DO schools. Understand this is generally speaking. You could very well get multiple acceptances to all top DO schools, but just looking at the numbers, that is what we are talking about.

Also, this is assuming you apply early.

Which schools are "established"

 

[UTsksk]

Which schools are "established"

Off the top of my head the schools that are "established"

TCOM, PCOM, NOVA, Western, KCOM, AZCOM(I think), CCOM, DMU, KCUMB, maybe some of the touro's and UMDNJ...I'm sure others meet the criteria

 

[Iliketoytles]

Which schools are "established"

Only DMU.

Just kidding. Generally speaking, the older the school, the more established it is. KCOM and DMU are the two oldest osteopathic schools. However, schools like TCOM, PCOM, CCOM, KCUMB, and AZCOM are also considered established because they have the board scores/match lists to back it up.

Don't avoid these schools thinking you can't get in... just apply early and broadly and you should snag a few interviews. Any school is a good school during application season. 😉

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Off the top of my head the schools that are "established"

TCOM, PCOM, NOVA, Western, KCOM, AZCOM(I think), CCOM, DMU, KCUMB, maybe some of the touro's and UMDNJ...I'm sure others meet the criteria

Basically. To there isn't a solid list but this list is pretty close. It is generally the schools that are older and have consistently provided quality students based on national reputation as well as generally having their crap together providing a good learning environment. These schools rarely have a large number of complaints about classes, professors, rotationd, board scores, etc.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Only DMU.

Just kidding. Generally speaking, the older the school, the more established it is. KCOM and DMU are the two oldest osteopathic schools. However, schools like TCOM, PCOM, CCOM, KCUMB, and AZCOM are also considered established because they have the board scores/match lists to back it up.

Don't avoid these schools thinking you can't get in... just apply early and broadly and you should snag a few interviews. Any school is a good school during application season. 😉

Honestly the top tier of DO schools are pretty much the schools, which were not founded in the last ~50 years.

 

[user3]

I would say that basically all of the state DO schools would be in the top tier

 

[2012Aggie]

TCOM is less than 40 years old.

 

[LifeTake2]

Only DMU.

Just kidding. Generally speaking, the older the school, the more established it is. KCOM and DMU are the two oldest osteopathic schools. However, schools like TCOM, PCOM, CCOM, KCUMB, and AZCOM are also considered established because they have the board scores/match lists to back it up.

Don't avoid these schools thinking you can't get in... just apply early and broadly and you should snag a few interviews. Any school is a good school during application season. 😉

Overall I agree, but I will point out one small flaw just because. PCOM (1899) belongs in the 1st group, not the second. It was founded 1 year after DMU (1898) and 70+ years before the rest of the list.

 

[donkeykong1]

Established= A strong institutional backbone from the state. Or a vast alumni network as a result of being around for 50-100 years

 

[poopyhead]

I would say that basically all of the state DO schools would be in the top tier

Outside of the DO world, I think this would be true on a national recognition level, at least until an Ivy starts a DO school. The DO schools themselves may not specifically be known, but the public universities they're attached to will be.

In the MD world, DO schools at universities with MD schools will "piggyback" off the reputation of the latter.

In the academic world, DO schools who have the most research will be better known, and apart from a few private DO schools, it's usually the public DO schools with the most research funding.

 

[HipChick]

Ill address something that I've been reading and agree with. Major in anything you want to and area interested in. If you dont want to major in bio, then dont. Major in something you like, rock the cGPa and sGPA and MCAT and it wont matter. Will it be a little more difficult? Sure because you have to take courses that aren't normally apart of exercise science. But you will have access to labs and hands on reseach experience (at least at my two U's I did). Better to be happy in one major than miserable in another.

But that's the new premeds POV.

 

[Goro]

Yes indeed!

That's good to know that your school also matches up with those numbers as minimally competitive (about the lowest you would ever want to apply with).

Would a 3.5cgpa / 3.4 sgpa / 27MCAT (avg matriculant) be considered fairly competitive for your school?

 

[drgioiadds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI-gYmxoCRQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLDD9CEE88802B07D0

 

[GypsyHummus]

Basically. To there isn't a solid list but this list is pretty close. It is generally the schools that are older and have consistently provided quality students based on national reputation as well as generally having their crap together providing a good learning environment. These schools rarely have a large number of complaints about classes, professors, rotationd, board scores, etc.

What about LECOM? I called and asked about their stats and it seems that I have competitive numbers for their program. I looked around and saw that they have relatively high board scores.

The only thing I do not like about the match list is that a overwhelming majority of students go into primary care. I think I want to do a primary care residency, but I really dont want surgery or specialties to be shut off from me. I know other schools have a better match rate for surgery (Like PCOM and DMU?)

 

[DrWily]

What about LECOM? I called and asked about their stats and it seems that I have competitive numbers for their program. I looked around and saw that they have relatively high board scores.

The only thing I do not like about the match list is that a overwhelming majority of students go into primary care. I think I want to do a primary care residency, but I really dont want surgery or specialties to be shut off from me. I know other schools have a better match rate for surgery (Like PCOM and DMU?)

Don't read too much into match lists. It doesn't really matter because it depends on the student. If one school has a lot of students matching into a certain specialty, those students would probably match into the same thing even if they went to a different school. Also, certain sub-specialties like cardiology require that you do IM first before going into cardio...

 

[DrJ13]

Simply put, what are my chances of being accepted into LECOM Fla.? Here's my situation...

I received my Doctor of Chiropractic degree in March of 2011 and have been practicing full time ever since. My undergraduate degree is a BS in Exercise Sports Science, so between graduate and undergraduate school I have taken most of LECOM's pre-req's twice. My science GPA is about a 3.3. I have completed and submitted the AACOM application and LECOM notified me a week ago that they are reviewing it. BUT, I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am taking it on Jan. 28th, so they should have my scores well before the April 1st deadline, I'm betting on an MCAT score of about 24. With all of this being said, what do y'all think my chances of being accepted into this Fall's class?

 

[emtthink]

Simply put, what are my chances of being accepted into LECOM Fla.? Here's my situation...

I received my Doctor of Chiropractic degree in March of 2011 and have been practicing full time ever since. My undergraduate degree is a BS in Exercise Sports Science, so between graduate and undergraduate school I have taken most of LECOM's pre-req's twice. My science GPA is about a 3.3. I have completed and submitted the AACOM application and LECOM notified me a week ago that they are reviewing it. BUT, I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am taking it on Jan. 28th, so they should have my scores well before the April 1st deadline, I'm betting on an MCAT score of about 24. With all of this being said, what do y'all think my chances of being accepted into this Fall's class?

So to put it bluntly, slim to none. I would wait until application opens first thing for next year and apply. With an anticipated score of around 24 and to be applying this late it is highly unlikely that you'll be accepted. Also i would advise against applying to only one school.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Simply put, what are my chances of being accepted into LECOM Fla.? Here's my situation...

I received my Doctor of Chiropractic degree in March of 2011 and have been practicing full time ever since. My undergraduate degree is a BS in Exercise Sports Science, so between graduate and undergraduate school I have taken most of LECOM's pre-req's twice. My science GPA is about a 3.3. I have completed and submitted the AACOM application and LECOM notified me a week ago that they are reviewing it. BUT, I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am taking it on Jan. 28th, so they should have my scores well before the April 1st deadline, I'm betting on an MCAT score of about 24. With all of this being said, what do y'all think my chances of being accepted into this Fall's class?

Why dont you like being a Chiropractor?

 

[pooker]

My state DO school listed stats as a 3.4GPA and a 24 MCAT as the average. I was surprised at the low numbers, and I almost don't want to apply because of that. They are fairly new, so I hope they raise the numbers for next year.

 

[DrJ13]

I enjoy being a Chiropractor and I like the whole philosophy behind it, but the main complication being a DC is that I have to jump through a lot of hoops with insurance companies to get things covered. Also, Im not sure what y'all know about chiropractic, but I do a lot of manual manipulations and at the end of the day after seeing 30 patients, my body physically aches and Im too exhausted to do anything else.

I don't think that I need to retake any courses at all to raise my GPA or anything like that, I just decided to become a DO too late in the application process to really study for the MCAT and take it last year.

I received an email from LECOM-B today and they said that my application has been put on hold until they receive my MCAT scores, so I guess that's better than being rejected.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

DrJ, what is your response to the correlation found in patients obtaining chiropractic services and strokes? In a study in Canada there was a high spike in patients who went for chiropractic manipulation and the manifestation of strokes.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

DrJ, what is your response to the correlation found in patients obtaining chiropractic services and strokes? In a study in Canada there was a high spike in patients who went for chiropractic manipulation and the manifestation of strokes.

You seriously need a hobby If for some reason, you have a legitimate interest in his/her response, so bet it, but I'm really guessing you don't lol.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You seriously need a hobby If for some reason, you have a legitimate interest in his/her response, so bet it, but I'm really guessing you don't lol.

The world deserves a voice of reason, of skepticism, I am the universe's gift to this forum....


{Not srs}
Eh, my hobby used to be watching history channel, so if you're able to make them put on some actual history I'll be out of your hair, for a while.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

The world deserves a voice of reason, of skepticism, I am the universe's gift to this forum....


{Not srs}
Eh, my hobby used to be watching history channel, so if you're able to make them put on some actual history I'll be out of your hair, for a while.

Haha...three years of dating a troll myself allows me to pick them out pretty easily. And I don't mean the forum type of troll people reference, for those that might interpret it that way. I'm fairly confident you'll understand what I mean 🙂

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Haha...three years of dating a troll myself allows me to pick them out pretty easily. And I don't mean the forum type of troll people reference, for those that might interpret it that way. I'm fairly confident you'll understand what I mean 🙂

Well, I tip my hat to you there 😉. But yes, it's fun to poke people's brains, the effects are always so... interesting.

 

[DrJ13]

DrJ, what is your response to the correlation found in patients obtaining chiropractic services and strokes? In a study in Canada there was a high spike in patients who went for chiropractic manipulation and the manifestation of strokes.

Want a simple answer? None, 99% of the time that patient is already pre-destined to have a stroke. I'm not knocking MD's because I want to become a DO myself, but throughout history MD's have notoriously given DC's a bad image, and those MD's are the "researchers" that write those studies. And you know those Canadiens are wacky anyways🙂

 

[flyhi]

Simply put, what are my chances of being accepted into LECOM Fla.? Here's my situation...

I received my Doctor of Chiropractic degree in March of 2011 and have been practicing full time ever since. My undergraduate degree is a BS in Exercise Sports Science, so between graduate and undergraduate school I have taken most of LECOM's pre-req's twice. My science GPA is about a 3.3. I have completed and submitted the AACOM application and LECOM notified me a week ago that they are reviewing it. BUT, I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am taking it on Jan. 28th, so they should have my scores well before the April 1st deadline, I'm betting on an MCAT score of about 24. With all of this being said, what do y'all think my chances of being accepted into this Fall's class?

I don't know the answer to this, but don't you think your chances are better since you are a D.C? What was your gpa in chiropractic school? Did they only use your undergrad grades to calculate your gpa's?

 

[DrJ13]

I don't know the answer to this, but don't you think your chances are better since you are a D.C? What was your gpa in chiropractic school? Did they only use your undergrad grades to calculate your gpa's?

Not to sound conceited, but yes I would think that my chances are better compared to other applicants with similar stats. And that's just because I have almost four more years of school and a year of real life experience with patients. My GPA in chiro school was actually higher than it was in undergrad, it was about a 3.4. My undergrad cGPA was like a 2.9, but my sGPA was closer to a 3.2

This week I received a letter from LECOM-B stating that my application is on "Hold" until they receive my MCAT scores, which I will be taking this Saturday. So I guess that can be good news considering they did not reject my application...

 

[PsP for real]

With a 3.2sGPA I think it would be hard to land a top acceptance..... That puts you below average in GPA and below average in the MCAT at most top places.

 

[Back 5]

Not to sound conceited, but yes I would think that my chances are better compared to other applicants with similar stats. And that's just because I have almost four more years of school and a year of real life experience with patients. My GPA in chiro school was actually higher than it was in undergrad, it was about a 3.4. My undergrad cGPA was like a 2.9, but my sGPA was closer to a 3.2

This week I received a letter from LECOM-B stating that my application is on "Hold" until they receive my MCAT scores, which I will be taking this Saturday. So I guess that can be good news considering they did not reject my application...

Professional courses are inputted and viewed, but the GPA is not calculated. It's more of a glorified EC unfortunately (as far as GPA is concerned).

 

[flyhi]

Not to sound conceited, but yes I would think that my chances are better compared to other applicants with similar stats. And that's just because I have almost four more years of school and a year of real life experience with patients. My GPA in chiro school was actually higher than it was in undergrad, it was about a 3.4. My undergrad cGPA was like a 2.9, but my sGPA was closer to a 3.2

This week I received a letter from LECOM-B stating that my application is on "Hold" until they receive my MCAT scores, which I will be taking this Saturday. So I guess that can be good news considering they did not reject my application...

👍 I would think so, too. How do you feel you did on MCAT? I took it Friday

 

[HotandCold]

Want a simple answer? None, 99% of the time that patient is already pre-destined to have a stroke. I'm not knocking MD's because I want to become a DO myself, but throughout history MD's have notoriously given DC's a bad image, and those MD's are the "researchers" that write those studies. And you know those Canadiens are wacky anyways🙂

MD's, DO's, PhD's etc. have not given Chiropractors a bad image.
Certain Chiroprators have given Chiropractors a bad image. That's not saying that there isn't merit in what they do- but far too many step outside of their scope of knowledge and attempt to treat things they have no business treating. Therein lies the problem with a non-medical profession with a medically relevant overlap. If Chiropractors generally adhered to their guidelines stringently, while they'd get sass for having tremendously easier criteria for their degrees, they wouldn't be attacked as often.

From reading posts on SDN, it seems as though the Medical crowd (that includes Pharmacists now) have an overall negative impression of your profession. And that's sad, because I do see a lot of potential good in it. I know people that swear by their Chiropractors, but just as many people I know have been scammed by others- even physically harmed.

 

[HotandCold]

Hi everyone,

I was looking around the forums and I saw a thread discussing the cases of "Borderline candidates" for MD schools and I was wondering, by an arbitrary definition, what type of student would be a borderline applicant for DO schools? Where a case when applying early (June 1st) having a letter for a DO, and something unique, would push the applicant into the range of an acceptance?

I have heard various things about DO schools from my Uncles (All MDs) and from premed advisers about it being easy and a "back up" for MD schools. I know DO is no cakewalk, unlike what my family may say. Maybe 10 years ago, but now it is starting to get competitive. Now that I'm taking classes and working my tail end off, I'm figuring out for myself that if I keep the DO door open, then they might give me a chance at become a doctor when MD schools wont. Then again I wont know until I apply. Maybe DO schools wont like me and an MD school would.

Do DO schools in particular tend to look at more than the numbers. Is this true, or just BS? Would someone with around c3.5 or 3.6 and 3.2s GPA with a 26 MCAT be considered teetering on acceptance or rejection?

I guess this isnt a What are my chances, I would just like to know what uphill battle I'm up against If I wanna go DO. I like that DOs can go into AOA residencies as well as MD, and I like that I can apply early decision for my State's MD school and still apply to as many DO schools to maximize my chances.

I guess its all about maximizing the chances huh? Also, would majoring in Exercise science hurt my chances as opposed to majoring in biology? I like Exercise science more than bio, but it is not as rigorous. I'm not sure how DO schools feel about that, I know that MD schools look down on it unless you have stellar MCAT scores.

Just trying to keep every door open 🙂

First of all, DO schools do not have easier curriculum. In fact, MSUCOM students take the same exact courses as the MD students at MSU (even in the same class)- but they simply get the extra OMM classes allotted in an irregular schedule.

DO school are also no longer "easy" back ups. Yes, you're more likely to get in as a borderline candidate than you are in an MD school- but I find it hard to fathom that someone with 0% chance of getting into an MD school would do much better at a DO school. Your stats seem fine though (but they can be altered by what you have or haven't done.)

Taking MSU as an example, the average is roughly 3.5, MCAT 27. But the average applicant typically has several hundred hours of volunteer work, research, EC's, etc. That's where the difference lies. So the trade off for 3.6 MCAT 29 for an MD path is a hefty amount of work (but that's just for that school.) An applicant is not a series of numbers, an applicant is a total package. They thoroughly evaluate you.

My 2 cents 👍

 

[FutureDoc01]

24 is way too low for LECOM. I think they said for my class the average MCAT was a 27-28.


I know they have accepted students with a 24 MCAT if they got a 3.0> in their post bac program.