What is better a Post Baac Program or SMP?

[Oncologist911]

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For a student with a low GPA? I heard that Post Baac's are judged more harshly than Masters students. But I also heard the SMP GPA does not help your Undergraduate GPA Also do you guys know if the SMP's screen GPA's like say you have a 2.99 instead of a 3.0, would they accept you? Also anyone here who used a post baac program or SMP to get into medical school successfully? I would love all of your opinions. Thank you in advance.

 

[Oncologist911]

2.9 GPA, haven't taken MCAT yet.

 

[doktorcardinal]

Most true SMP require mcat.

 

[GrapesofRath]

For those seeking DO admission simply retaking a couple classes with grades C or lower and doing well in a year of post-bacc is sufficient to bring up their GPA to the level it needs to be. A 3.2+ and a solid performance on the MCAT(say scores equivalent to the 28-30 range) should net some DO interviews.

If you really are insistent on applying to MDs with a 2.9 an SMP is likely what you should be aiming for but bear in mind a fairly strong MCAT score will be needed to have a chance at that, particularly given there will be many applying to SMP's with more than 2.9's and solid MCATs.

 

[Goro]

SMPs, especially ones given at med schools, are what I recommend because they're auditions for med school.

 

[Oncologist911]

For those seeking DO admission simply retaking a couple classes with grades C or lower and doing well in a year of post-bacc is sufficient to bring up their GPA to the level it needs to be. A 3.2+ and a solid performance on the MCAT(say scores equivalent to the 28-30 range) should net some DO interviews.

If you really are insistent on applying to MDs with a 2.9 an SMP is likely what you should be aiming for but bear in mind a fairly strong MCAT score will be needed to have a chance at that, particularly given there will be many applying to SMP's with more than 2.9's and solid MCATs.

Thank you!

 

[Oncologist911]

SMPs, especially ones given at med schools, are what I recommend because they're auditions for med school.

Sounds good,
I want to apply for the Georgetown SMP, I have emailed them and called them and they do not get back to you. Say I do the one at Georgetown, there's a good percentage they'll accept me right? Or can I go anywhere with good performance in a Medical School SMP? Also are you familiar with the GEMS program at Georgetown? Like I said they do not get back to you and I am trying to find the best possible method on getting in. Supposedly if you do well in GEMS you are automatically put in MS2. However, I am not sure how they make up MS1 work, and if I even qualify. I am from a low socioeconomic status but I am not black or latino.

 

[deleted480308]

just know that if you blow the SMP you are done

 

[IlyaR]

I can't imagine that anyone from an SMP skips MS1

 

[Goro]

Do well at any SMP (> 3.6) and do well on MCAT, and there are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. I've interviewed people from Gtown.

Say I do the one at Georgetown, there's a good percentage they'll accept me right? Or can I go anywhere with good performance in a Medical School SMP?

Nope.
Also are you familiar with the GEMS program at Georgetown?

 

[Oncologist911]

just know that if you blow the SMP you are done

I wouldn't expect it any other way.

 

[Oncologist911]

I can't imagine that anyone from an SMP skips MS1

NOT an SMP, GEMS its some experimental program for people with "modest grades" who want to help URM people. Its a bit confusing to be honest and god forbid they respond to you to clarify anything.

 

[Oncologist911]

Do well at any SMP (> 3.6) and do well on MCAT, and there are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. I've interviewed people from Gtown.

Say I do the one at Georgetown, there's a good percentage they'll accept me right? Or can I go anywhere with good performance in a Medical School SMP?

Nope.
Also are you familiar with the GEMS program at Georgetown?

Sounds good. Thank you Goro =)

 

[IlyaR]

NOT an SMP, GEMS its some experimental program for people with "modest grades" who want to help URM people. Its a bit confusing to be honest and god forbid they respond to you to clarify anything.

Ah, well good luck!

 

[GrapesofRath]

Do well at any SMP (> 3.6) and do well on MCAT, and there are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. I've interviewed people from Gtown.

Say I do the one at Georgetown, there's a good percentage they'll accept me right? Or can I go anywhere with good performance in a Medical School SMP?

Nope.
Also are you familiar with the GEMS program at Georgetown?

Ive always wondered what are the gpa distributions at SMPs.....we see people recommend all the time do an SMP but roughly what percent of people who do an SMP do well enough that makes a difference? How many who do an SMP do poorly enough that they wreck their chances?


Again there are hardly any official estimates. But I just wonder if anybody has a rough ball park estimate on how many actually do well in these SMPs and get over 3.5s given how frequently yet are suggested

 

[Goro]

In my school's own SMP, the numbers will vary from year to year...but typically, ~5-10% underperform in our program and won't get into the med school. 1-2 students have done "OK" in the program, but bombed their interviews.

Not everybody gets a part after an audition.

I know of one program that admits, say 20, but only selects 10 for their own med school. I assume the others end up going to other med schools.

'

Ive always wondered what are the gpa distributions at SMPs.....we see people recommend all the time do an SMP but roughly what percent of people who do an SMP do well enough that makes a difference? How many who do an SMP do poorly enough that they wreck their chances?


Again there are hardly any official estimates. But I just wonder if anybody has a rough ball park estimate on how many actually do well in these SMPs and get over 3.5s given how frequently yet are suggested

 

[GrapesofRath]

In my school's own SMP, the numbers will vary from year to year...but typically, ~5-10% underperform in our program and won't get into the med school. 1-2 students have done "OK" in the program, but bombed their interviews.

Not everybody gets a part after an audition.

I know of one program that admits, say 20, but only selects 10 for their own med school. I assume the others end up going to other med schools.

'

Those are far higher numbers than I anticipated. Essentially if you get into an SMP program from what you seem to be saying for your own program 75% or so then will end up getting into medical school. Now when you say 5-10% underperform and don't get into med school, does that mean the others that do well enough get into ANY med school(DO, Carribean, international, MD) or just a US MD school? If its any med school, any idea of how many in an SMP program get onto an US MD school? I know this is all unofficial data hard to estimate but I am interested given the prominence of SMP programs.

I looked into this a bit since I asked this question and it looks like Georgetown interviews 50% of their SMP candidates. So I'm guessing probably over half of Georgetown's SMP class at least generates interviews at MD schools.

 

[Goro]

It's a small sample size because we have small classes, and the program is rather new. I don't know what becomes of the people who have to go elsewhere. I believe that even a mediocre (for our program) performance of 3.3-3.5 might be good enough for some of the newer DO schools. I don't think it will get them into an MD school. Keep in mind that an MD school will want a high MCAT to go with that high GPA.


At least one of our SMP grads got into our state MD school, and one more went to another DO program. Our SMP students are unique because they come to our program specifically using it as the audition to get into OUR med school, and not, say, CCOM or PCOM. Well, PCOM has their own program!

Those are far higher numbers than I anticipated. Essentially if you get into an SMP program from what you seem to be saying for your own program 75% or so then will end up getting into medical school. Now when you say 5-10% underperform and don't get into med school, does that mean the others that do well enough get into ANY med school(DO, Carribean, international, MD) or just a US MD school? If its any med school, any idea of how many in an SMP program get onto an US MD school? I know this is all unofficial data hard to estimate but I am interested given the prominence of SMP programs.

I looked into this a bit since I asked this question and it looks like Georgetown interviews 50% of their SMP candidates. So I'm guessing probably over half of Georgetown's SMP class at least generates interviews at MD schools.

 

[IlyaR]

I'd imagine that most people in my SMP did well. Apps to get in are still fairly competitive and although it's not as stringent as med school applications, you are still accepted based on the idea that you will be successful. Combine that with a $70k price tag after living expenses and you have a lot of drive to succeed

 

[cardio7]

Sounds good,
I want to apply for the Georgetown SMP, I have emailed them and called them and they do not get back to you. Say I do the one at Georgetown, there's a good percentage they'll accept me right? Or can I go anywhere with good performance in a Medical School SMP? Also are you familiar with the GEMS program at Georgetown? Like I said they do not get back to you and I am trying to find the best possible method on getting in. Supposedly if you do well in GEMS you are automatically put in MS2. However, I am not sure how they make up MS1 work, and if I even qualify. I am from a low socioeconomic status but I am not black or latino.

Hi, recent grad of the Georgetown SMP here. The majority of my program's 185 students do not end up at Georgetown, as they only take about 25 of us each year. About 50% of our class who applied this year was accepted to a medical school (whether MD or DO), so you will most likely end up going to school somewhere else. If you do this SMP and have your heart set on Georgetown Med, aim for at least a 3.6 GPA in the program and an MCAT of at least 32 (or new equivalent). Keep in mind that SMPs generally do not offer linkage, so there is no guarantee of acceptance at Georgetown even if you do achieve those stats in the SMP.

The other 50% of the class who were unsuccessful or did not apply during SMP year will apply for the following cycle or will decide that medicine is not for them and pursue other career options (PhD, PA, MPH, etc.). In total, about 85% of the class will matriculate to medical school within 2 years of finishing the program.

GEMS does not grant an automatic "promotion" to MS-2, though students are exempt from re-taking the 3-4 med classes they've already completed (just like the SMP). It's a tiny program with very competitive admission. You may qualify if you have a disadvantaged background, and you don't have to be black or latino to get a fair shot. The thing about GEMS is that it's not a true SMP, and you realistically only get a chance of admission at Georgetown Med. About 75% of GEMS students will be accepted, and I don't know what happens to the others.

 

[IlyaR]

It's a small sample size because we have small classes, and the program is rather new. I don't know what becomes of the people who have to go elsewhere. I believe that even a mediocre (for our program) performance of 3.3-3.5 might be good enough for some of the newer DO schools. I don't think it will get them into an MD school. Keep in mind that an MD school will want a high MCAT to go with that high GPA.


At least one of our SMP grads got into our state MD school, and one more went to another DO program. Our SMP students are unique because they come to our program specifically using it as the audition to get into OUR med school, and not, say, CCOM or PCOM. Well, PCOM has their own program!

Hey Goro, I was wondering: how do you guys know what is an SMP and isn't? Is it the coursework/fact that it's from a med school/just general recognition? I'm assuming it's a combination of all

Thanks

 

[Oncologist911]

Hi, recent grad of the Georgetown SMP here. The majority of my program's 185 students do not end up at Georgetown, as they only take about 25 of us each year. About 50% of our class who applied this year was accepted to a medical school (whether MD or DO), so you will most likely end up going to school somewhere else. If you do this SMP and have your heart set on Georgetown Med, aim for at least a 3.6 GPA in the program and an MCAT of at least 32 (or new equivalent). Keep in mind that SMPs generally do not offer linkage, so there is no guarantee of acceptance at Georgetown even if you do achieve those stats in the SMP.

The other 50% of the class who were unsuccessful or did not apply during SMP year will apply for the following cycle or will decide that medicine is not for them and pursue other career options (PhD, PA, MPH, etc.). In total, about 85% of the class will matriculate to medical school within 2 years of finishing the program.

GEMS does not grant an automatic "promotion" to MS-2, though students are exempt from re-taking the 3-4 med classes they've already completed (just like the SMP). It's a tiny program with very competitive admission. You may qualify if you have a disadvantaged background, and you don't have to be black or latino to get a fair shot. The thing about GEMS is that it's not a true SMP, and you realistically only get a chance of admission at Georgetown Med. About 75% of GEMS students will be accepted, and I don't know what happens to the others.

Oh wow, Thank you. I am not aiming for a specific school in particular. I'm not picky. I'd like to go to Georgetown. What would you think is a better program for a undegrad with a noncompetitive GPA. SMP or GEMS. I like Gems because you have a high chance of being accepted into the Medical School.

 

[Goro]

An SMP has coursework like medical school, and are often taught by the same faculty. They would have Anatomy, Physiology, Histo, Biochem, Med Micro, Neurosci etc.

An MS program that offers research coursework, or things like "Techniques in..." or "Seminars in..." is a more classic MS program.

Capeesh?

Hey Goro, I was wondering: how do you guys know what is an SMP and isn't? Is it the coursework/fact that it's from a med school/just general recognition? I'm assuming it's a combination of all

Thanks

 

[IlyaR]

An SMP has coursework like medical school, and are often taught by the same faculty. They would have Anatomy, Physiology, Histo, Biochem, Med Micro, Neurosci etc.

An MS program that offers research coursework, or things like "Techniques in..." or "Seminars in..." is a more classic MS program.

Capeesh?

Yup, I believe our director mentions the program in his composite, but was just curious if they were instantly recognizable

 

[Goro]

They're actually a dime-a-dozen. Drexel runs TWO!

Yup, I believe our director mentions the program in his composite, but was just curious if they were instantly recognizable

 

[cardio7]

Oh wow, Thank you. I am not aiming for a specific school in particular. I'm not picky. I'd like to go to Georgetown. What would you think is a better program for a undegrad with a noncompetitive GPA. SMP or GEMS. I like Gems because you have a high chance of being accepted into the Medical School.

I'd say take a look at the websites for both programs, as they have very different goals. The SMP is best for people with a low GPA (average 3.3) and otherwise strong ECs/credentials including a decent MCAT (30+). Conversely, the average GPA and MCAT for the GEMS entering class was 2.9 and 24 respectively, and these students have encountered academic difficulties related to a disadvantaged background. The SMP offers a master's degree, while GEMS is a post-bac that offers intensive mentoring, many small-group sessions, and assistance with study skills.

GEMS does have a higher rate of acceptance into Georgetown's med school than the SMP, but it's much more competitive to get into than the SMP. Last year, GEMS had around 200 applications for 30 spots. Also keep in mind that the 75% med acceptance rate only applies to GEMS students who completed the program. They seem to have a high attrition rate, and they can kick students out prematurely for poor performance in the program.

I think that the program you choose will depend on your MCAT score and your overall goals for medical school. Feel free to PM me if you want more info!

 

[Vivalarevolution]

I just finished a post bacc and wish I had done an SMP instead, but I had no idea they existed. I would recommend studying for and taking the MCAT prior though so you have one less thing to worry about 🙂

 

[Oncologist911]

I like that idea but I am graduating in May 2016 and taking MCAT Sept 2015. I have to start applying soon, So I need an idea of what would be best for me at this point.

 

[Vivalarevolution]

I like that idea but I am graduating in May 2016 and taking MCAT Sept 2015. I have to start applying soon, So I need an idea of what would be best for me at this point.

Oh that's perfect. So if you do well on the mcat you can do an SMP after you graduate in 2016?

Edit: even with a post bacc, I'd recommend you take the mcat prior though. Through the post bacc I just did, the biggest reason people don't get into the affiliated med school afterward is the mcat. People get a 4.0 and then don't get a qualifying score and can't interview. I had already taken the mcat when I began so it was a lot less stressful for me 🙂

 

[Oncologist911]

Oh that's perfect. So if you do well on the mcat you can do an SMP after you graduate in 2016?

Edit: even with a post bacc, I'd recommend you take the mcat prior though. Through the post bacc I just did, the biggest reason people don't get into the affiliated med school afterward is the mcat. People get a 4.0 and then don't get a qualifying score and can't interview. I had already taken the mcat when I began so it was a lot less stressful for me 🙂

Post Baac's don't require MCAT scores, thats prob why.