What is call like in a psych residency?

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justalittlestar

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Hey all,

I'm a MS4 who recently applied and finished up interviews for psych residency. I've started sorting my rank list and my top programs by location, diversity efforts, and call schedule. I know that 24 hour call generally sucks and night float is typically regarded as a bit easier but what exactly does psychiatry call entail? Is it mostly psych ER coverage? Also if anyone could talk about how their experience with NF and 24 psych call it would be appreciated.

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Totally program-dependent. Some programs are very heavy where you'll have to stay at the hospital for 24 hours. Others (like mine) are much lighter and you only have phone call overnight and don't have to come into the hospital. You'd need to ask the programs individually to know what their expectations are.
 
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Mine was light. No overnight in house coverage. Everything by phone from home.
 
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It can vary a lot by program. Mine was 24 to 28 hours psychiatry inpatient call Q3 for 2 years, then went to backup for the on call person from home in PGY3 and PGY4. I would admit about 6 or 7 patients on a typical night from the ER. I would nap at most 20 minutes per night on a slow night. The pager would go off all the time. There were frequent calls for safe room isolations and restraints. This was an inner city urban setting. Calling an attending from 5pm to 8am was discouraged unless absolutely necessary. That was good for building independence and confidence but not easy. The drive home the next day was dangerous due to lack of sleep or rest.

My child and adolescent fellowship call at a different university program was phone call from home only, and even then we weren't expected to come in until morning as pediatrics would do the initial admit. Super easy, except it was a more academically snobby environment, a little less "in the trenches" situation.

I have colleagues who never did more than phone call overnight. I know many who had to do nightfloat or in house call while rotating on other services like IM. I've been told night float isn't a lot better for sleep hygiene, but Ive never done night float.

I specifically chose a residency program that required no non-psychiatry call at all because I did a lot of IM and other specialty call as a student that was outright abusive with a lot of hazing. Amusingly, surgery wasn't one of the tough ones. A lot of times it isn't so much what the job is as it is who you have to work with.

A huge factor in any job for me is call. I will always take less money if necessary to avoid not sleeping as that ruins my physical and mental health very quickly. It's one of my personal limitations.
 
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What are diversity efforts?
Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Is the program hiring and retaining faculty and recruiting residents from underrepresented in medicine backgrounds.
 
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It can vary a lot by program. Mine was 24 to 28 hours psychiatry inpatient call Q3 for 2 years, then went to backup for the on call person from home in PGY3 and PGY4. I would admit about 6 or 7 patients on a typical night from the ER. I would nap at most 20 minutes per night on a slow night. The pager would go off all the time. There were frequent calls for safe room isolations and restraints. This was an inner city urban setting. Calling an attending from 5pm to 8am was discouraged unless absolutely necessary. That was good for building independence and confidence but not easy. The drive home the next day was dangerous due to lack of sleep or rest.

My child and adolescent fellowship call at a different university program was phone call from home only, and even then we weren't expected to come in until morning as pediatrics would do the initial admit. Super easy, except it was a more academically snobby environment, a little less "in the trenches" situation.

I have colleagues who never did more than phone call overnight. I know many who had to do nightfloat or in house call while rotating on other services like IM. I've been told night float isn't a lot better for sleep hygiene, but Ive never done night float.

I specifically chose a residency program that required no non-psychiatry call at all because I did a lot of IM and other specialty call as a student that was outright abusive with a lot of hazing. Amusingly, surgery wasn't one of the tough ones. A lot of times it isn't so much what the job is as it is who you have to work with.

A huge factor in any job for me is call. I will always take less money if necessary to avoid not sleeping as that ruins my physical and mental health very quickly. It's one of my personal limitations.
Thank you for this insight.
 
Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Is the program hiring and retaining faculty and recruiting residents from underrepresented in medicine backgrounds.
Oh I see. Not sure why that matters for your training but alright
 
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I’m not addressing ignorance today.

Thanks to everyone who answered. It seems like it’s really program dependent and I get that. Night float just seems like it sounds a lot better. Guess I will find out after I match.
 
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Well, for me, diversity is a good thing, it enriches your life and education. Fun, or maybe sad story, I interviewed at a program in the southern part of the U.S. and was invited to a grand rounds during lunch on interview day. I sat next to another applicant, a female Mexican American. The attending presenting the grand rounds spent most of his time moaning about illegal immigration from Mexico. The vibe was decidely not "how can we help people immigrating with their mental health challenges", it was more negative. I think he even said "wet back" once. Or maybe that was just how he came across. I recall he did have pictures of people crossing the border. Anyway, the lady I was sitting next to looked at me, and we shared a mutual eye roll. I don't think either of us ranked that program highly.
 
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I’m not addressing ignorance today.

Thanks to everyone who answered. It seems like it’s really program dependent and I get that. Night float just seems like it sounds a lot better. Guess I will find out after I match.
How overnight call is at an institution is something worth asking people at each program about. I always asked the program director, at least one attending, and did my best to spend some time with residents at the program and ask questions about call and quality of life both inside and outside of the building as well. If people didn't like those questions, it was a big red flag for me. If I can't ask questions now, how is that going to be better later? I also observed how residents behaved both around attendings and among themselves. If they appeared exhausted and afraid then I ranked the program lower. If the vibe was relaxed and welcoming, and instilled curiosity for learning, that was a lot better. I asked myself "if I can't feel comfortable with emailing or texting and ask someone at the program some follow-up questions, do I want to match there?"

Which goes back to my point that you have to work closely with these people for 3 or 4 years, and after location it is probably the biggest determinator of how much you will enjoy your training. Pay attention to your gut and what vibe you are getting from the people at each program.
 
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Second what others say about program specifics. There are some programs where there is absolutely no call at all. There are plenty of programs with 24 or 28 hour call shifts Q3. Some where the location changes each PGY level, some where it's home call and some where there's only on-site call. Asking can be helpful, but call can also change while you're in a program. For example, my program used to only do 5 PM to 8 PM M-F and 8 AM - 8 PM Saturday/Sunday for PGY-1, PGY-2 shared that pool with them but also had a PGY-2 take night float Sunday-Friday with another PGY-2 covering the Saturday night, then PGY-3 took 5 PM to 11 PM at the psych ER. PGY-4s never took call.

Now PGY-1s manage all the call that was previously split by PGY-2s except the nights are still PGY-2s, but the PGY-2s have to cover another hospital system with short and long calls. So the call burden essentially doubled. This change occurred overnight with none of the residents having any say or being aware of it in any way until a new call schedule was released, with the call changes occurring the very next day. Many residents were quite upset over the change, but some were happy as it meant more experience and in a different setting, something that admittedly did help broaden the learning potential (however weak that is) of call.
 
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I wouldn’t necessarily say night float is better than 24 hour call. It is very individualized.

Some 24 hour call involves a few admits per night with sleep in between. I’d prefer that to nightfloat. Others can involve 10+ admits overnight with no sleep. How busy is the call? Some places 24 hour call is from home until called in.

Night float can be hard transitioning from days to nights and sleeping. If I did night float, I would prefer doing it for 1-2 months at a time rather than 1-2 weeks every 1-2 months. I’d prefer to get it over with in 1 span of time.
 
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I wouldn’t necessarily say night float is better than 24 hour call. It is very individualized.

Some 24 hour call involves a few admits per night with sleep in between. I’d prefer that to nightfloat. Others can involve 10+ admits overnight with no sleep. How busy is the call? Some places 24 hour call is from home until called in.

Night float can be hard transitioning from days to nights and sleeping. If I did night float, I would prefer doing it for 1-2 months at a time rather than 1-2 weeks every 1-2 months. I’d prefer to get it over with in 1 span of time.
I hadn't even considered that night float could be multiple short rotations. I had thought it was generally 6-8 weeks. If it's any less than that then I agree, it is rarely better.
 
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I hadn't even considered that night float could be multiple short rotations. I had thought it was generally 6-8 weeks. If it's any less than that then I agree, it is rarely better.

Both types of places usually spin it one of 2 ways.

If 1-2 weeks at a time, they argue that being on a separate schedule as family for more than 1-2 weeks is hard emotionally, so they prefer brief night floats.

Those with 4-8 weeks at a time will argue that night float is terrible, so it’s better to get it over with at 1 time and then never look back.

Night float can be variable intensity. I’ve seen some try to sleep during their float and never truly switch schedules.

Over night call can be phone only, phone but may come in from home, or in-house completely. Variability on sleep is high. Sometimes you can have good staff that will hold patients for a few hours to get some sleep and then knock them all out.

What are expectations of faculty? Some places expect you to have done a full thorough psych eval. This can include a full sexual history with number of partners and last HIV test.

Other faculty believe the call roll is to admit or not. Full eval is the next day.
 
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I think it's a good experience to do both a little bit of NF and 24 hour call (we took a handful of these over the entire training). I am very glad I've had the experience in a controlled setting (aka backed up by an attending) to know that I don't envy trauma surgeons taking that kind of call for their entire life. NF was really just 5 x 12 hour night shifts for a few weeks a year at my program. It lets you understand a nocturnal schedule's pros and perils. In psychiatry the presentations at 10pm or 2am really are different than at 10 am so I do think the exposure is worthwhile. Very heavy NF or routine 24 hour call I would not consider to be an advantage in training and would feel more like cheap labor at that point.
 
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Very heavy NF or routine 24 hour call I would not consider to be an advantage in training and would feel more like cheap labor at that point.

yes. great experience the first 10 times. Eventually seeing the same guy come in because temp dropped, hes hungry, the area has crap resources, and now hes "suicidal" only becomes educational to an extent. You may see some rare stuff here in there, but eventually like merovinge says, you're just a cheap labor source. Not being able to sleep highly sucks as well.
 
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Don't go anywhere with in house night call or night float. It doesn't train you to function like an attending will. Go somewhere that has home call with attending back-up so that you can learn to make decisions and handle issues over the phone.
 
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Call highly varies per residency.

One hospital I saw them make residents to PAs for admissions. That residency also had no involuntary unit. That type of residency will be very different vs another where there's an involuntary unit and the resident doesn't have to do PAs.
 
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Setting aside inpatient medicine months, we had four kinds of call in our program.

In our first year, we had a multi-week block of night float covering the psychiatric hospital at night (~180 beds). This was done in-house, but a call-room well-stocked with snacks was available. When I went through, it was definitely possible to get a substantial amount of sleep; you got called for restraints, medical emergencies/codes (in which case much of your responsibility was calling the medical hospital across the street and summoning help) and doing things parents do for their children (minor PRNs). You would do this Sunday-Thursday nights

A few months later in order to increase utilization, the hospital started doing "direct admits", meaning patients from distant outlying hospitals in our system could get admitted to the floor directly instead of going through the psych ED as had been the protocol before. You would basically be responsible for inputting all medical orders and doing a medical H&P for people who arrived at 2 AM pissed off and with poor documentation. Super fun. You could have 4-5 of these per night and dangerous things started happening. Not infrequently because we had a geri unit you would get demented patients on blood thinners showing up with basically no accompanying medical records who obviously could not answer meaningful questions about their history.

Also in first year, during our psych ED rotation, you'd do a week at a time of overnight shifts, going from 8 PM to 8 AM Monday-Friday nights. Evening attending would be there until 10 PM and you'd essentially always have a moonlighting senior on shift with you. You were on the hook to steady grind until the end of your shift, but between 3 AM and 6 AM things usually slowed down to the point senior would send you away to take a nap in the other dedicated call room.

In second year, when you were on inpatient rotations, you were on the hook for 24 hour calls when the interns were not available for some reason during the week and would also have to do overnight floor call on weekend nights and weekend coverage for the psych ED. You would also be the "buddy" for interns on the first few nights of night float but could do most of this from home after the first few hours.

The real kicker was when you were on 10 weeks of consults. You and two other PGY-2s would have to split all the overnights and weekends for the block. Overnights weren't so bad, mostly home call with very rare instances of having to come in (patient refusing emergency, life-saving surgery). Weekends were godawful; you would routinely get 10+ consults per day, each of which required a full psychiatric evaluation regardless of the complaint PLUS calling the team to convey reccs + staffing these cases with attendings when they would show up in the afternoon for a while. you would hope and pray that the attendings did not then insist on going and seeing cases with you as things would take so much longer. When you got to 12+ consults in one day you were allowed to call for help and they would pull in fellows and moonlighters from outlying hospitals to take some of the hits.

The floor overnights were kind of worthless as learning opportunities but I do think being overnight in the psych ED was helpful for developing confidence and ability to make decisions with limited information. At the very least I got very comfortable deciding about whether or not I had reason to believe someone met criteria for involuntary hospitalization in our state and declining to pursue involuntary hospitalization if I did not believe they did, even if they expressed SI. I hated every minute of consults so did not feel that way about the call days but this might not have been the case if our program's C&L culture was not as, frankly, OCPD-ish as it was.
 
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Don't go anywhere with in house night call or night float. It doesn't train you to function like an attending will. Go somewhere that has home call with attending back-up so that you can learn to make decisions and handle issues over the phone.

I would second this. I don't find any learning valuable on night call if I am to be honest. I would think anyone choosing a q3 or q4 24h call psych program to be completely crazy nowadays. Would go to a program with no or less call if possible.
 
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Don't go anywhere with in house night call or night float. It doesn't train you to function like an attending will. Go somewhere that has home call with attending back-up so that you can learn to make decisions and handle issues over the phone.
Isn’t in-house call or NF the standard? I feel like I’ve rarely seen home call.
 
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Setting aside inpatient medicine months, we had four kinds of call in our program.

In our first year, we had a multi-week block of night float covering the psychiatric hospital at night (~180 beds). This was done in-house, but a call-room well-stocked with snacks was available. When I went through, it was definitely possible to get a substantial amount of sleep; you got called for restraints, medical emergencies/codes (in which case much of your responsibility was calling the medical hospital across the street and summoning help) and doing things parents do for their children (minor PRNs). You would do this Sunday-Thursday nights

A few months later in order to increase utilization, the hospital started doing "direct admits", meaning patients from distant outlying hospitals in our system could get admitted to the floor directly instead of going through the psych ED as had been the protocol before. You would basically be responsible for inputting all medical orders and doing a medical H&P for people who arrived at 2 AM pissed off and with poor documentation. Super fun. You could have 4-5 of these per night and dangerous things started happening. Not infrequently because we had a geri unit you would get demented patients on blood thinners showing up with basically no accompanying medical records who obviously could not answer meaningful questions about their history.

Also in first year, during our psych ED rotation, you'd do a week at a time of overnight shifts, going from 8 PM to 8 AM Monday-Friday nights. Evening attending would be there until 10 PM and you'd essentially always have a moonlighting senior on shift with you. You were on the hook to steady grind until the end of your shift, but between 3 AM and 6 AM things usually slowed down to the point senior would send you away to take a nap in the other dedicated call room.

In second year, when you were on inpatient rotations, you were on the hook for 24 hour calls when the interns were not available for some reason during the week and would also have to do overnight floor call on weekend nights and weekend coverage for the psych ED. You would also be the "buddy" for interns on the first few nights of night float but could do most of this from home after the first few hours.

The real kicker was when you were on 10 weeks of consults. You and two other PGY-2s would have to split all the overnights and weekends for the block. Overnights weren't so bad, mostly home call with very rare instances of having to come in (patient refusing emergency, life-saving surgery). Weekends were godawful; you would routinely get 10+ consults per day, each of which required a full psychiatric evaluation regardless of the complaint PLUS calling the team to convey reccs + staffing these cases with attendings when they would show up in the afternoon for a while. you would hope and pray that the attendings did not then insist on going and seeing cases with you as things would take so much longer. When you got to 12+ consults in one day you were allowed to call for help and they would pull in fellows and moonlighters from outlying hospitals to take some of the hits.

The floor overnights were kind of worthless as learning opportunities but I do think being overnight in the psych ED was helpful for developing confidence and ability to make decisions with limited information. At the very least I got very comfortable deciding about whether or not I had reason to believe someone met criteria for involuntary hospitalization in our state and declining to pursue involuntary hospitalization if I did not believe they did, even if they expressed SI. I hated every minute of consults so did not feel that way about the call days but this might not have been the case if our program's C&L culture was not as, frankly, OCPD-ish as it was.
Thanks for making me feel better about going to a weaker residency :rofl:. I would see 2-3 new consults a day plus follow-ups and between staffing with attending and the primary team and how detailed those evals can be would feel that was a busy day.
 
We have short call 5-11pm weekdays and 24hr call weekends. Both in house. I’ll disagree with others and say that in house call for residents is worthwhile. I think it helps build some resiliency to be being woken up and needing to make decisions.
 
We have short call 5-11pm weekdays and 24hr call weekends. Both in house. I’ll disagree with others and say that in house call for residents is worthwhile. I think it helps build some resiliency to be being woken up and needing to make decisions.
Yeah but couldn't home call by phone build resilience as well and be more similar to what you will actually be doing as an attending? I think thats what the previous person was saying.
 
We have short call 5-11pm weekdays and 24hr call weekends. Both in house. I’ll disagree with others and say that in house call for residents is worthwhile. I think it helps build some resiliency to be being woken up and needing to make decisions.

Resilience for what lol, most psychiatrists work 40h a week, sometimes less. We do not have 12h surgeries to do
 
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Night float or in house overnight call isn't the norm, or at the very least should not be. It indicates a program that isn't functioning efficiently at best and is misusing residents at worst.
 
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Night float or in house overnight call isn't the norm, or at the very least should not be. It indicates a program that isn't functioning efficiently at best and is misusing residents at worst.

In our state patients who got restrained or put in seclusion had to be seen physically by an MD within a short period of time after it happened and had to be seen again by an MD every few hours as long as they remained in seclusion. On a couple of our floors there were often folks who were especially dysregulated who spent months on the unit and ended up in seclusion a lot. Phone call would have been impossible, someone with a medical license had to be physically showing up at 2 AM to certify the person in seclusion was fine.
 
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In our state patients who got restrained or put in seclusion had to be seen physically by an MD within a short period of time after it happened and had to be seen again by an MD every few hours as long as they remained in seclusion. On a couple of our floors there were often folks who were especially dysregulated who spent months on the unit and ended up in seclusion a lot. Phone call would have been impossible, someone with a medical license had to be physically showing up at 2 AM to certify the person in seclusion was fine.
In a lot of these hospital settings, an IM doctor could satisfy that as well as the requirement to have IM on-site at night. It was a heavily debated issue in our hospital. If IM has to be there anyway, why can't they do the face-to-face restraint eval? It would save the hospital a ton of money.
 
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In our state patients who got restrained or put in seclusion had to be seen physically by an MD within a short period of time after it happened and had to be seen again by an MD every few hours as long as they remained in seclusion. On a couple of our floors there were often folks who were especially dysregulated who spent months on the unit and ended up in seclusion a lot. Phone call would have been impossible, someone with a medical license had to be physically showing up at 2 AM to certify the person in seclusion was fine.

This was one of my fav moonlighting gigs as a resident. I found a facility that needed someone to satisfy this. I was paid a nightly rate to hold the pager, and another amount per seclusion/restraint.

It was not a good use of faculty time in my experience.
 
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In a lot of these hospital settings, an IM doctor could satisfy that as well as the requirement to have IM on-site at night. It was a heavily debated issue in our hospital. If IM has to be there anyway, why can't they do the face-to-face restraint eval? It would save the hospital a ton of money.

We didn't have IM onsite at night. Technically the entire psych hospital was a very large unit of the medical hospital across the street and was physically connected by a limited access tunnel but there is no way the IM program was going to let us pull their night float residents when they had 14 perfectly good psych interns to split the duty amongst
 
Second what others say about program specifics. There are some programs where there is absolutely no call at all. There are plenty of programs with 24 or 28 hour call shifts Q3. Some where the location changes each PGY level, some where it's home call and some where there's only on-site call. Asking can be helpful, but call can also change while you're in a program. For example, my program used to only do 5 PM to 8 PM M-F and 8 AM - 8 PM Saturday/Sunday for PGY-1, PGY-2 shared that pool with them but also had a PGY-2 take night float Sunday-Friday with another PGY-2 covering the Saturday night, then PGY-3 took 5 PM to 11 PM at the psych ER. PGY-4s never took call.

Now PGY-1s manage all the call that was previously split by PGY-2s except the nights are still PGY-2s, but the PGY-2s have to cover another hospital system with short and long calls. So the call burden essentially doubled. This change occurred overnight with none of the residents having any say or being aware of it in any way until a new call schedule was released, with the call changes occurring the very next day. Many residents were quite upset over the change, but some were happy as it meant more experience and in a different setting, something that admittedly did help broaden the learning potential (however weak that is) of call.
Sounds eerily similar to my old residency schedule. Do you have a "4b"..
 
Night float or in house overnight call isn't the norm, or at the very least should not be. It indicates a program that isn't functioning efficiently at best and is misusing residents at worst.
I really disagree. I think being present to see what is actually happening on the unit, ED room, or in the hospital bed has value in training. I would be a bit bothered by someone making these decisions having never set foot on a unit or ED bay after hours. Not to be that person, but that sounds like the type of training I would expect for an NP.
 
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For me call included:

-Overnight shifts covering an inpatient unit, with some overflow helping out in the ER (6p to 8a). This was generally pretty chill. Do 2-3 admissions + handle PRNs, acute agitation, and overnight medical issues. This was mostly night float.
-Shifts covering the ER and consult service. This occurred both as a night float and as weekend coverage. Weekend coverage went 8a one morning to 8a the next morning.
-At-home call answering questions from the junior residents on call (basically serving as a mini-attending)

The frequency varied from weekly at worst to maybe monthly in PGY4 (I forget the exact frequency).

I agree with others that it got to be a bit much. In particular, for weekly call when you have someone go on leave, get sick, whatever else you can soon find yourself doing more than weekly call. That gets extremely tiring. About twice per month is *plenty* of call!

On the other hand, overnight and weekend call really throws you into the deep end. You have far more autonomy than you do during the day, and you develop more into an independent decision maker. I also still feel like some of the 24 hour call shifts were the hardest I have worked in my career, either as a trainee or an attending. It is a confidence booster to know what you can handle if really pressed.

My overall take is that 1-2 years of twice-monthly call seems about right to me (with likely a month of nightfloat stuck in there somewhere). Something like Q3 or Q4 overnight call (or even weekly) has real diminishing educational returns, and has a pretty serious negative impact on wellbeing.
 
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For me call included:

-Overnight shifts covering an inpatient unit, with some overflow helping out in the ER (6p to 8a). This was generally pretty chill. Do 2-3 admissions + handle PRNs, acute agitation, and overnight medical issues. This was mostly night float.
-Shifts covering the ER and consult service. This occurred both as a night float and as weekend coverage. Weekend coverage went 8a one morning to 8a the next morning.
-At-home call answering questions from the junior residents on call (basically serving as a mini-attending)

The frequency varied from weekly at worst to maybe monthly in PGY4 (I forget the exact frequency).

I agree with others that it got to be a bit much. In particular, for weekly call when you have someone go on leave, get sick, whatever else you can soon find yourself doing more than weekly call. That gets extremely tiring. About twice per month is *plenty* of call!

On the other hand, overnight and weekend call really throws you into the deep end. You have far more autonomy than you do during the day, and you develop more into an independent decision maker. I also still feel like some of the 24 hour call shifts were the hardest I have worked in my career, either as a trainee or an attending. It is a confidence booster to know what you can handle if really pressed.

My overall take is that 1-2 years of twice-monthly call seems about right to me (with likely a month of nightfloat stuck in there somewhere). Something like Q3 or Q4 overnight call (or even weekly) has real diminishing educational returns, and has a pretty serious negative impact on wellbeing.
This was helpful.

Do you feel like programs without 24 hr call and just strictly NF are at a disadvantage as far as learning opportunities?
 
Don't go anywhere with in house night call or night float. It doesn't train you to function like an attending will. Go somewhere that has home call with attending back-up so that you can learn to make decisions and handle issues over the phone.
lmao almost every somewhat reputable academic program will have both
 
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This was helpful.

Do you feel like programs without 24 hr call and just strictly NF are at a disadvantage as far as learning opportunities?

If the night float is set up the same way as overnight call, I think night float only is totally sufficient. The 24-hour call is a bit more intense, but in terms of learning I think both are a similar experience.
 
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For me call was overnight in person on the unit year 1 in a NF system. In year 2 call meant working overnight in the ED after a full day of work every week or so.

I would say NF was better on my QOL given that I prefer regular sleep schedules (our program was every other night). Call was pretty heavy in my program, so you worked on your call shifts. I do home call for moonlighting that is not heavy.

I would say having in-house overnight call was really helpful in building my skills of decision-making (NF or otherwise). I think home call is not really educational. And if it is educational, it is probably in-house call masquerading as home call lol.
 
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Isn’t in-house call or NF the standard? I feel like I’ve rarely seen home call.

Lol, absolutely not. Home call is the standard in psych. My program was 95% home call. I did never did in-house call and was called in maybe 10 times. We only had overnight call during our first 2 years, but could elect to take overnight shifts after that for extra pay. When I was PGY-3 or 4 they changed how the VA was set up, so someone would be in house from 3-9pm and NF would come on overnight. They'd do that for 2 weeks then switch. Residents there now do that rotation twice, so 4 weeks total of NF/in house call over the course of residency. Personally, I preferred it when I was a resident where one person just had to be in-house from 4-10pm and then went home and took call the rest of the night from home. There's no reason in-house call should be required as you're not learning anything during that time that you couldn't learn during the day.
 
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Lol, absolutely not. Home call is the standard in psych. My program was 95% home call. I did never did in-house call and was called in maybe 10 times. We only had overnight call during our first 2 years, but could elect to take overnight shifts after that for extra pay. When I was PGY-3 or 4 they changed how the VA was set up, so someone would be in house from 3-9pm and NF would come on overnight. They'd do that for 2 weeks then switch. Residents there now do that rotation twice, so 4 weeks total of NF/in house call over the course of residency. Personally, I preferred it when I was a resident where one person just had to be in-house from 4-10pm and then went home and took call the rest of the night from home. There's no reason in-house call should be required as you're not learning anything during that time that you couldn't learn during the day.
Was your program in the NE?
 
The work load and educational value of call really varies. I had home call that was intense, scutty, and spent in the hospital, and I desperately wished we had a call room. At another hospital, we had the option of signing up for fewer 24 hour or more 12 hour shifts, days were C/L and nights were in the psych ED, but there was always an attending in house. Yet another hospital was 24 hour shifts, discouraged from calling anyone at night. The second was by far the best balance of learning and stress, and I do think the breadth of exposure and acuity was valuable. Ask lots and lots of questions, the nature of the supervision was more important than anything else about the call.
 
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If you give us the programs you're considering, we could give you a much better answer. There's a ton of variability from no call to covering a million patients across 10 hospitals on call for 72 hours without any post call.
 
If you give us the programs you're considering, we could give you a much better answer. There's a ton of variability from no call to covering a million patients across 10 hospitals on call for 72 hours without any post call.

I am mainly ranking psych programs in the Northeast. A few are new programs so it's difficult to know the culture and get a lot of answers. If anyone is a resident at any of these programs please feel free to add your two cents. Thanks!

From top to bottom:

Zucker Hillside - Queens, NY - Has no 24hr call. NF system which is what I think I prefer at this time. Maybe I'll regret it but I like the flexibility of their scheduling overall. They have a pretty large cohort for each resident class so I think that helps.
Jefferson - Philly - I prioritized location for this one, Has 24 hour call and NF system, seems pretty call heavy in PGY1 and you work lots of weekends it sounds like but call steadily gets better on the back-end in later years apparently
Einstein Medical Center - Philly - 2nd year has a heavy mix of NF and 24 hr call and sounds intense
Cooper - Camden, NJ - Only 24 hr call and it sounds like a lot of call.
Christiana Care - Wilmington, DE - Also seems call heavy.
Crozer - Upland, PA - Seems like a very light schedule tbh Just unsure about the program
Tower Health - Reading, PA - I think they're still figuring out the call schedule
Penn Highland - Dubois, PA - Also lighter schedule but in a far away land.
 
Call for me was the following:
24 hour: only in first month of pgy 2 and 3 due to incoming pgy 1 otherwise 6 wks night float usually in a chunk but for me it ended up being 4wks then 2 wks. The 2 wks messed up my step 3 studying.

Otherwise: we had short call 5p-8p M-F with nigh float after 8pm.
1.Main university hospital had a unique arrangement that after midnight the ED would direct admit directly to the psych floor so we never had to see patients between 12a-8am except a few that came overnight for an H/P on the psych unit.
2. VA hospital: maybe 1-2 admits and then direct admits from other VA's would be the only ones that would arrive usually before midnight but sometimes after.

3. State hospital Adult and Child: Some crappy wknd days you would be on the hook for this place for 12 hrs as well and end up doing child admits on a very funky EMR that was a 10-15 walk to get to the building. Typically the senior on call with you would handle this.

I didn't like having 3 pagers in addition to my own pager at times but i felt in years 2 and 3 I had (1-2) weekday 3 hour calls and (1-2) sat or sun 7a-7pm day shift calls/mo. I only ever worked a 12 hour day shift thanksgiving as a holiday in my entire 4 years so maybe got lucky.

The one perk is my program let us take PTO (4 weeks) as we needed throughout the year. Used a very weird form that chiefs and attendings on the service you were on needed to sign off on. A few of the years they didn't enter my info correctly into the system and I ended up having 5-6 weeks off of PTO.:rofl:
 
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Resilience for what lol, most psychiatrists work 40h a week, sometimes less. We do not have 12h surgeries to do
Resilience for being woken up at 3am from a dead sleep and making a decision. I personally like a challenge and look for it to help me grow. I also complained far less than my previous residents and complain less as an attending, hey hey that’s just me.
 
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