What is competition like in medical school and how difficult is it to get into residency positions?

[mrh125]

I just graduated from undergrad and am applying to med school next cycle, so im jumping the gun a little bit, but I wanted to ask some med school students about this so i can be more prepared for what's going to happen in med school, especially when it comes to residency stuff. Is competition in med school similar to competition in undergrad? I remember losing 3 friends in organic chemistry because I scored higher than them and having to deal with all of the cut-throat backstabbing premed behavior and I just ended up distancing myself from it as much as possible, not only because it's annoying but because really I think everyone should be able to succeed and go where they want to go if they work hard on their own merit without that stuff, so I hope it isn't like that in med school over residencies.

I'm also wondering more about residencies and what matching is like. The main reason I'm wondering is because when it comes to applying to schools I'm wondering if the med school you go to affects the opportunities you have available for residency as well as potential specialities (like whether you go to an average medical school compared to harvard or something like that or if you want to apply to some specialized surgery type instead of general psychiatrist or general practitioner).

What are some other factors that play a role in residency matching and whether or not you get accepted and are certain specialities more impacted than others? Also, exactly how hard is it to get matched to a residency program? I've heard people not getting into residency programs for years and not being able to progress further into their career. Is the hard cap on residency positions really that much of an issue?

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[mcloaf]

Is competition in med school similar to competition in undergrad? I remember losing 3 friends in organic chemistry because I scored higher than them and having to deal with all of the cut-throat backstabbing premed behavior and I just ended up distancing myself from it as much as possible, not only because it's annoying but because really I think everyone should be able to succeed and go where they want to go if they work hard on their own merit without that stuff, so I hope it isn't like that in med school over residencies.

Not in my experience, but I think this probably varies to some degree between schools. Preclinical has been entirely non-competitive so far because we aren't ranked against each other and don't have grades. I've heard the gunners can start to show up third year when evals are more subjective and you're evaluated in comparison to the other med students around you, but I don't have to worry about that for a while.

Can't speak to the residency Q's much beyond hearsay at this point, but it's my understanding that if you're a USMD grad you're pretty unlikely to go unmatched unless you aren't realistic with how competitive you are and have your heart set on integrated plastics or something. As for what matters to what specialties, competition, etc., you could start by reading this: http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...tent/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf


Also, FYI this thread should be posted in pre-allo (and will probably get moved there).

 

[VisionaryTics]

I just graduated from undergrad and am applying to med school next cycle, so im jumping the gun a little bit, but I wanted to ask some med school students about this so i can be more prepared for what's going to happen in med school, especially when it comes to residency stuff. Is competition in med school similar to competition in undergrad? I remember losing 3 friends in organic chemistry because I scored higher than them and having to deal with all of the cut-throat backstabbing premed behavior and I just ended up distancing myself from it as much as possible, not only because it's annoying but because really I think everyone should be able to succeed and go where they want to go if they work hard on their own merit without that stuff, so I hope it isn't like that in med school over residencies.

I'm also wondering more about residencies and what matching is like. The main reason I'm wondering is because when it comes to applying to schools I'm wondering if the med school you go to affects the opportunities you have available for residency as well as potential specialities (like whether you go to an average medical school compared to harvard or something like that or if you want to apply to some specialized surgery type instead of general psychiatrist or general practitioner).

What are some other factors that play a role in residency matching and whether or not you get accepted and are certain specialities more impacted than others? Also, exactly how hard is it to get matched to a residency program? I've heard people not getting into residency programs for years and not being able to progress further into their career. Is the hard cap on residency positions really that much of an issue?

Most (>95%) of US seniors match to their desired field. Check out http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...tent/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf to see the differences in applicants between something like dermatology (very competitive) and neurology (not very competitive).

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Most (>95%) of US seniors match to their desired field.

That's a pretty skewed stat, as there is a lot of self-selection that occurs prior to students applying for residency.

 

[link2swim06]

That's a pretty skewed stat, as there is a lot of self-selection that occurs prior to students applying for residency.

+1

If anyone could do anything, what percent of people would do derm or plastics? I bet >20%.

 

[mvenus929]

I just graduated from undergrad and am applying to med school next cycle, so im jumping the gun a little bit, but I wanted to ask some med school students about this so i can be more prepared for what's going to happen in med school, especially when it comes to residency stuff. Is competition in med school similar to competition in undergrad? I remember losing 3 friends in organic chemistry because I scored higher than them and having to deal with all of the cut-throat backstabbing premed behavior and I just ended up distancing myself from it as much as possible, not only because it's annoying but because really I think everyone should be able to succeed and go where they want to go if they work hard on their own merit without that stuff, so I hope it isn't like that in med school over residencies.

That will vary from school to school, and one of the reasons people encourage strictly P/F curriculums. My school was very collaborative--we'd all help each other out, because at the end of the day, we are all pretty much going to be doctors, and other than a handful of awards, it doesn't really matter where in the class you fall.

I'm also wondering more about residencies and what matching is like. The main reason I'm wondering is because when it comes to applying to schools I'm wondering if the med school you go to affects the opportunities you have available for residency as well as potential specialities (like whether you go to an average medical school compared to harvard or something like that or if you want to apply to some specialized surgery type instead of general psychiatrist or general practitioner).

What are some other factors that play a role in residency matching and whether or not you get accepted and are certain specialities more impacted than others? Also, exactly how hard is it to get matched to a residency program? I've heard people not getting into residency programs for years and not being able to progress further into their career. Is the hard cap on residency positions really that much of an issue?

The things that play a role in residency matching are: your scores, your grades (specifically third year grades), your LORs, the specialty you are going into, your ECs (some residencies value things outside the classroom more than others), research (ditto), school/contacts. You'll notice that most of these things are up to you, though certainly if you're at a school that's more research or outreach focused, you'll have more opportunities to get involved. Still, you can always do things on your own. The role your school plays in all this is debated hotly--there is some regional bias inherent in the residency process, but how much will depend more on the program than anything else. My school is small enough that I know most of the faculty in the department to which I'm applying, which meant that when I didn't get an interview that I really wanted, I had people who knew me well who could make calls on my behalf. I'm not sure how much of a difference it made, but I ended up securing an interview after a rejection. In talking to people on the ERAS forum, it seems a lot of schools don't have that advantage (your mentor is assigned first year, you don't necessarily get to know the faculty in the program, etc), so it may be worth looking into.

Most US grads end up with a residency slot, though it may not be their first choice (either of program or specialty). That may change a bit in coming years, as the number of US grads approaches the number of residency positions... it's hard to tell one way or the other at this point.

 

[Smurfette]

If anyone could do anything, what percent of people would do derm or plastics? I bet >20%.

I doubt that. Plastics and Derm involves either 1. liking the OR, taking care of surgical patients (many of whom may need multiple procedures or are high maintenance, or both) along with their complications, and taking care of patients who have very specific expectations as far as outcome (which may or may not be realistic; it's generally not just boob jobs, lipo and facelifts) , or 2. looking at patients with skin conditions (rashes, moles, acne, eczema, etc, mixed with things like botox and skin cancers) all day, every day, for years on end. You have to enjoy what you do, if you are going to do it for 2-3 decades.

Moving to PreAllo as OP is still premed.

 

[link2swim06]

I doubt that. Plastics and Derm involves either 1. liking the OR, taking care of surgical patients (many of whom may need multiple procedures or are high maintenance, or both) along with their complications, and taking care of patients who have very specific expectations as far as outcome (which may or may not be realistic; it's generally not just boob jobs, lipo and facelifts) , or 2. looking at patients with skin conditions (rashes, moles, acne, eczema, etc, mixed with things like botox and skin cancers) all day, every day, for years on end. You have to enjoy what you do, if you are going to do it for 2-3 decades.

Moving to PreAllo as OP is still premed.

I was primarily saying there is a small, but not insignificant cohort of my peers who 'are in for the money.'

Not trying to paint my generation as lazy but if graduate with 300K debt @ 7% interest doing a 4 year derm residency is a quick ticket to being debt free.

Personally I agree with you....I would want to do what I would enjoy.

 

[lovemango]

I just graduated from undergrad and am applying to med school next cycle, so im jumping the gun a little bit, but I wanted to ask some med school students about this so i can be more prepared for what's going to happen in med school, especially when it comes to residency stuff. Is competition in med school similar to competition in undergrad? I remember losing 3 friends in organic chemistry because I scored higher than them and having to deal with all of the cut-throat backstabbing premed behavior and I just ended up distancing myself from it as much as possible, not only because it's annoying but because really I think everyone should be able to succeed and go where they want to go if they work hard on their own merit without that stuff, so I hope it isn't like that in med school over residencies.

Depends on the school. My school has grades (Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail) but we're also known as a school that's laid back and everyone still helps each other out. We share resources, notes, and ebooks on our class FB group, and lots of people study or review in small groups. Everyone works really hard and everyone is smart but I haven't heard of any backstabbing going on; there's a few gunners, but it's pretty obvious who they are, and they definitely don't make up the majority of my class.

 

[VisionaryTics]

That's a pretty skewed stat, as there is a lot of self-selection that occurs prior to students applying for residency.

True. Which is why I posted a document detailing the difference between applicants in given specialties (because there are differences).

 

[darkjedi]

I can't speak to residency yet, but I can say that competition between students is practically non-existent at my school. People share notes on a class drive, post flash cards, and are all around friendly and awesome people. Even the few class 'gunners' we have are generally good people. Any sense of competition people have is definitely internal and would depend on what type of personality you are.