What is considered "elite" undergrad?

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monkeyMD said:
Obviously the ivy leagues...
but does "elite" also cover UC berkeley or UCLA??
Just wondering...
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Stanford, yes. UCSF, to a non-ca resident, would be the best UC school. Berkeley, UCLA, pepperdine i think is more like 1 step below elite (similar to NYU, Georgetown).

This is all personal bias, or course.
 
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UpperEastSide said:
Stanford, yes. UCSF, to a non-ca resident, would be the best UC school. Berkley, UCLA, peperdine i think is more like 1 step below elite (similar to NYU, Georgetown).

This is all personal bias, or course.
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Obviously you should listen to the guy who believes UCSF is an undergraduate institution, spells "Berkeley" wrong, and groups UCB and UCLA with "Pepperdine"
 
when thinking elite of the elite schools, think "HYPM"
 
anon1111 said:
Obviously you should listen to the guy who believes UCSF is an undergraduate institution, spells "Berkeley" wrong, and groups UCB and UCLA with "Pepperdine"
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Haha, I didn't know UCSF didn't have an undergrad.. whateve though haha I'm not familiar with CA schools. Well, the UCSF name carries more weight than the UCLA brand in other areas then.
 
Vanderbilt is so elite, we wear monocles to class. (see avatar)

UpperEastSide said:
Haha, I didn't know UCSF didn't have an undergrad.. whateve though haha I'm not familiar with CA schools. Well, the UCSF name carries more weight than the UCLA brand in other areas then.
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Yea it does only have a grad school, but as far as medical schools go I'd say most people would agree with you. As far as undergrads go, I've heard from CA residents here that it's UCB>UCLA>UCSD>others. Of course, this is grounded in no fact, and is absolute hearsay 😉.
 
This is what ELITE looks like

Harvard_shield-University.png
 
One school stands above all the others in the category of elite:

images-south-harmon-lg_thumb_400x300.gif
 
College/med school brands do not carry "weight". It's what you do that carries weight. Look, if you go to Harvard and get an average GPA, an average MCAT, very minimal research & clinical experience... don't be surprised if you wind up at an "average" medical school. The "weight" that your college "brand" carries is nonexistent.

I remember watching the Nova documentary that was filmed some years ago that followed a group of HMS students from MS1 til they became attendings. It was interesting seeing where they all wound up, and the paths they took. One guy made it through, trained in EM, and was never really able to keep a steady job... it was sad when they were filming the reunion portion and by most measures his career hadn't been very successful...he had just been going around picking up various locums gigs. Not sure where he's at now, but it goes to show that the Harvard name won't do jack for you if you aren't productive.

So, don't think about whether a school is or isn't "elite", because eliteness is a subjective, unmeasurable quality that isn't going to impress anyone but yourself if the name on your diploma is all you have going for you.
 
UpperEastSide said:
Stanford, yes. UCSF, to a non-ca resident, would be the best UC school. Berkeley, UCLA, pepperdine i think is more like 1 step below elite (similar to NYU, Georgetown).

This is all personal bias, or course.
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Pepperdine??!!! LOL Dude!

How about Hopkins?!!! 🙂
 
What's with all the half-naked men avatar???
 
Thirteeen said:
Pepperdine??!!! LOL Dude!

How about Hopkins?!!! 🙂
Click to expand...

Hopkins = ELITE.

did you guys notice where i said "my personal bias" 😎

Okayy Pepperdine is a butthole school, i get it.

Question: What do you guys think of students that graduate from "Honors Colleges" at regular state universities?

In particular- Barrett, Honors College at ASU?
 
bucks2010 said:
College/med school brands do not carry "weight". It's what you do that carries weight. Look, if you go to Harvard and get an average GPA, an average MCAT, very minimal research & clinical experience... don't be surprised if you wind up at an "average" medical school. The "weight" that your college "brand" carries is nonexistent.
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The key here though is that if you go to Harvard and are average, you will go to a decent medical school. If you go to most colleges and are average, you will not go to medical school.

Look, I agree with you in general, what you do >> than where you went to school. However, where you went to school definitely effects your future opportunities.
 
Encephalectomy said:
The key here though is that if you go to Harvard and are average, you will go to a decent medical school. If you go to most colleges and are average, you will not go to medical school.

Look, I agree with you in general, what you do >> than where you went to school. However, where you went to school definitely effects your future opportunities.
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👍👍
 
I think some of the top liberal arts colleges are considered elite as well. But like others have said, it doesn't really matter unless you rock at everything else which you can do perfectly well at a less prestigious undergrad.
 
UpperEastSide said:
Hopkins = ELITE.

did you guys notice where i said "my personal bias" 😎

Okayy Pepperdine is a butthole school, i get it.

Question: What do you guys think of students that graduate from "Honors Colleges" at regular state universities?

In particular- Barrett, Honors College at ASU?
Click to expand...

Honors is a game changer. 🙄
 
NickNaylor said:
Honors is a game changer. 🙄
Click to expand...

Your signature:

...for even the mind depends so greatly on the temperament and on the disposition of the organs of the body that, if it is possible to find some means to render men generally more wise and more adroit than they have been up until now, I believe that one should look for it in medicine.

Rene Descartes, Discourse on Method
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Interesting quote. Not sure if I agree though, but interesting.
 
I thought it was "HYSPM" 😕 I don't know, I'm not going to an elite school and didn't apply to any places I felt like I didn't have a chance at.
 
UpperEastSide said:
In particular- Barrett, Honors College at ASU?
Click to expand...

Honors programs are something you do to challenge yourself; from a state school honors doesn't really "look" better, at least not significantly. Nothing is going to make ASU look like a top 20; really fun school though.
 
Top 50 research universities, top 50 liberal arts colleges. There are >100 on the list due to ties in the ranking at 50.

Amherst College
Bard College
Barnard College
Bates College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brandeis Univesity
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
Bucknell University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Centre College
Claremont McKenna College
Colby College
Colgate University
College of the Holy Cross
College of William and Mary
Colorado College
Columbia University
Connecticut College
Cornell University
Darmouth College
Davidson College
Depauw University
Dickinson College
Duke University
Emory University
Franklin and Marshall College
Furman University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Gettysburg College
Grinnell College
Hamilton College
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
John Hopkins University
Kenyon College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Macalester College
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Middlebury College
Mount Hoyoke College
New York University
Northwestern University
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Pennsylvania State University-U Park
Pitzer College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rhodes College
Rice University
Scripps College
Sewanee-University of the South
Skidmore College
Smith College
St. Olaf College
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Trinity College
Tufts University
Union College
University of California-Berkeley
University of California-Davis
University of California-Irvine
University of California-Los Angeles
University of California-San Diego
University of California-Santa Barbara
University of Chicago
University of Florida
University of Illinois-Champaign
University of Illinois-Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Norte Dame
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Rochester
University of Southern California
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Vanderbilt University
Vassar College
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Washington University in St. Louis
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Whitman College
Williams College
Yale University
Yeshiva University
 
The Elite schools in my mind for undergrad are: Harvard, Yale, UC Davis, Princeton, MIT, Stanford,... 😛


^ Yikes! I haven't even heard of some of those places. I guess the problem I see arising if you go to one of those liberal arts schools is, while you may get a great education, lay people probably won't recognize the name. This is probably less of an issue with medical school, but I could see it being a bit of a problem for people applying to jobs right out of undergrad.
 
the duck said:
The Elite schools in my mind for undergrad are: Harvard, Yale, UC Davis, Princeton, MIT, Stanford,... 😛
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is there any particular reason you chose UC Davis on this list? Why not include UC Riverside?

I would consider elite undergraduate colleges to be Oxford, Cambridge (surprised no one included these schools) and the Ivy schools.
 
LizzyM said:
Top 50 research universities, top 50 liberal arts colleges. There are >100 on the list due to ties in the ranking at 50.

Amherst College
Bard College
Barnard College
Bates College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brandeis Univesity
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
Bucknell University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Centre College
Claremont McKenna College
Colby College
Colgate University
College of the Holy Cross
College of William and Mary
Colorado College
Columbia University
Connecticut College
Cornell University
Darmouth College
Davidson College
Depauw University
Dickinson College
Duke University
Emory University
Franklin and Marshall College
Furman University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Gettysburg College
Grinnell College
Hamilton College
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
John Hopkins University
Kenyon College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Macalester College
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Middlebury College
Mount Hoyoke College
New York University
Northwestern University
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Pennsylvania State University-U Park
Pitzer College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rhodes College
Rice University
Scripps College
Sewanee-University of the South
Skidmore College
Smith College
St. Olaf College
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Trinity College
Tufts University
Union College
University of California-Berkeley
University of California-Davis
University of California-Irvine
University of California-Los Angeles
University of California-San Diego
University of California-Santa Barbara
University of Chicago
University of Florida
University of Illinois-Champaign
University of Illinois-Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Norte Dame
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Rochester
University of Southern California
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Vanderbilt University
Vassar College
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Washington University in St. Louis
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Whitman College
Williams College
Yale University
Yeshiva University
Click to expand...

Just remember though, applying yourself counts just as much as where you went. I graduated from Whitman College with a GPA hovering around 3.00. I have friends who were in the Biology, Biophysics, Molecular Biology program (I was a Psych major) who graduated with >3.5 GPA and are in some very elite medical schools. I'm not. Don't do what I did and squander a great opportunity, while I was able to pull my GPA up with some post-bac work, I still was left with the choice of either low-tier MD programs or DO programs. Not saying that those are bad options, they're just not Hopkins, OHSU, U of W, Columbia, HYPSM, etc . . .
 
LizzyM said:
Top 50 research universities, top 50 liberal arts colleges. There are >100 on the list due to ties in the ranking at 50.

Amherst College
Bard College
Barnard College
Bates College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brandeis Univesity
Brown University
Bryn Mawr College
Bucknell University
California Institute of Technology
Carleton College
Carnegie Mellon University
Case Western Reserve University
Centre College
Claremont McKenna College
Colby College
Colgate University
College of the Holy Cross
College of William and Mary
Colorado College
Columbia University
Connecticut College
Cornell University
Darmouth College
Davidson College
Depauw University
Dickinson College
Duke University
Emory University
Franklin and Marshall College
Furman University
Georgetown University
Georgia Institute of Technology
Gettysburg College
Grinnell College
Hamilton College
Harvard University
Harvey Mudd College
Haverford College
John Hopkins University
Kenyon College
Lafayette College
Lehigh University
Macalester College
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Middlebury College
Mount Hoyoke College
New York University
Northwestern University
Oberlin College
Occidental College
Pennsylvania State University-U Park
Pitzer College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rhodes College
Rice University
Scripps College
Sewanee-University of the South
Skidmore College
Smith College
St. Olaf College
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
Trinity College
Tufts University
Union College
University of California-Berkeley
University of California-Davis
University of California-Irvine
University of California-Los Angeles
University of California-San Diego
University of California-Santa Barbara
University of Chicago
University of Florida
University of Illinois-Champaign
University of Illinois-Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
University of Norte Dame
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Rochester
University of Southern California
University of Texas-Austin
University of Virginia
University of Washington
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Vanderbilt University
Vassar College
Wake Forest University
Washington and Lee University
Washington University in St. Louis
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Whitman College
Williams College
Yale University
Yeshiva University
Click to expand...

Sweet. My little liberal arts college is on your list. Now I have some serious prestige!
 
the duck said:
The Elite schools in my mind for undergrad are: Harvard, Yale, UC Davis, Princeton, MIT, Stanford,... 😛


^ Yikes! I haven't even heard of some of those places. I guess the problem I see arising if you go to one of those liberal arts schools is, while you may get a great education, lay people probably won't recognize the name. This is probably less of an issue with medical school, but I could see it being a bit of a problem for people applying to jobs right out of undergrad.
Click to expand...

My adcom actually has a list of about 400 schools and some measures of their rank.

While lay people may not have heard of some of these schools, but depending on the field, you can be sure that HR offices have. It can also be a regional thing with some smaller schools feeding bigger cities (within a day's drive of campus) but less known further out. Also don't discount the alumni networks some of these schools have in specific industries.
 
Pro-tip: don't ask the dean of admissions at any particular medical school if going to XXX (and playing sports!) will give you a leg up and will make up for your poor gpa/mcat. Chances are you will probably sound like an ass and your cohorts will end up with a giant dent in their forehead.
 
UpperEastSide said:
Hopkins = ELITE.

did you guys notice where i said "my personal bias" 😎

Okayy Pepperdine is a butthole school, i get it.

Question: What do you guys think of students that graduate from "Honors Colleges" at regular state universities?

In particular- Barrett, Honors College at ASU?
Click to expand...

Pfft, Barrett sucks. Taking a school with practically no admissions standards and then creating an "honors" department doesn't mean much.
 
rhcarolina said:
is there any particular reason you chose UC Davis on this list? Why not include UC Riverside?

I would consider elite undergraduate colleges to be Oxford, Cambridge (surprised no one included these schools) and the Ivy schools.
Click to expand...

Guess where I go to school 😛


LizzyM said:
My adcom actually has a list of about 400 schools and some measures of their rank.

While lay people may not have heard of some of these schools, but depending on the field, you can be sure that HR offices have. It can also be a regional thing with some smaller schools feeding bigger cities (within a day's drive of campus) but less known further out. Also don't discount the alumni networks some of these schools have in specific industries.
Click to expand...

True, I guess it probably isn't an issue if you stay in the area, or are in a specialized field.

If you don't mind me asking, does your departments list of 400 schools vary greatly from say, US news rankings, or other public ranking systems?
 
the duck said:
Guess where I go to school 😛




True, I guess it probably isn't an issue if you stay in the area, or are in a specialized field.

If you don't mind me asking, does your departments list of 400 schools vary greatly from say, US news rankings, or other public ranking systems?
Click to expand...

We use US news ranking and we have other data such as avg MCAT and avg gpa among applicants. That shows, for example, that Wash U, Dartmouth and Reed College have virtually identical avg MCATs but Reed has a avg gpa that is 0.2 lower than the other two schools, evidence of the lack of grade inflation there, something we do take into account.
 
LizzyM said:
We use US news ranking and we have other data such as avg MCAT and avg gpa among applicants. That shows, for example, that Wash U, Dartmouth and Reed College have virtually identical avg MCATs but Reed has a avg gpa that is 0.2 lower than the other two schools, evidence of the lack of grade inflation there, something we do take into account.
Click to expand...

What are some other schools which your data shows should be getting more credit/prestige than they are currently getting (like Reed)?
 
boo you guys don't think my university is a top 20? 🙁

lol- i know it's not but they offered a realllly good deal, good enough to turn my head away from an ivy, for national merit finalists
 
LizzyM said:
We use US news ranking and we have other data such as avg MCAT and avg gpa among applicants. That shows, for example, that Wash U, Dartmouth and Reed College have virtually identical avg MCATs but Reed has a avg gpa that is 0.2 lower than the other two schools, evidence of the lack of grade inflation there, something we do take into account.
Click to expand...

As an Oregonian, I can say that Reed is much tougher than Wash U and Dartmouth....Reed is totally bad ass intellectually. Reed kids are not athletic, so I would give the edge to Dartmouth on the field of physical combat, but Reed wins in the battle of the mind. Also, Reed kids smoke cigarettes incessantly, kind of annoying, and if you are a med student, appalling, but the Reed kids are smart, very smart.
 
What? Your telling me that there are other colleges besides Harvard? :O
 
LizzyM said:
We use US news ranking and we have other data such as avg MCAT and avg gpa among applicants. That shows, for example, that Wash U, Dartmouth and Reed College have virtually identical avg MCATs but Reed has a avg gpa that is 0.2 lower than the other two schools, evidence of the lack of grade inflation there, something we do take into account.
Click to expand...

This should end many-a-debate about whether or not rigor of undergraduate grading standards are taken into account 🙂. I'll go ahead and save this quote.
 
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