What is D.O. School

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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WillHague007

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My friend's brother just got into D.O. school and none of us knew exactly what it was. We all know the cliche that it is a step below medical school. What is it really? Is it accupuncture and alternative stuff like that?
 
I don't even know anything about it. All I heard is that there's not a big difference between a MD and a DO school.
 
why dont you search the osteopathic and allopathic boards on here ...the topic has been discussed ad nauseum...but just to answer the one quick question...no its nothing to do with alternative medicine at all.
 
Why don't you ask your friends brother?

BTW, it is medical school. DO's are fully qualified physicians; the legal and professional equals of MD's.
 
D.O. school = medical school
M.D. school = medical school

D.O. = fully-licensed physician
M.D. = fully-licensed physician
 
Hey guys,
I know a D.O. is a doctor just like an MD is a doctor...I guess I just wanted to know the differences (if any) of a DO school vs a MD school. I didn't mean any disrespect to you DO's we're all going to be doing the same thing when we graduate anyways...I guess a better way to put this questions is why would someone choose D.O. school over M.D. school?
 
It seems as if some people have chips on their shoulders. The OP seemed genuinely pretty clueless, is probably pretty young, and probably didn't need a bunch of DO=MD answers. In a perfect world, maybe, but if DO really and truly equaled MD in every way then there wouldn't need to be DO schools at all. (and that is not an insult so nobody get their underwear in a bunch) Don't be such smartypants about everything, I know many of you like to post (a whole lot) so don't act as if an explanation of the basic differences between DOs and MDs is beneath you. Maybe some people don't realize this, but there are a lot of people, many of them educated, who don't know what DO means. 😎
 
I was accepted to both DO and MD schools. I had never even heard of osteopathic medicine until I applied to medical school. The only reason I decided on DO rather than MD was that I liked the school and people better at that particular school that I now attend--so I went there (oh yeah, and it doesn't snow here in Phoenix).

Now that I am done with one year, I know a little more about it. MD's and DO's are the same thing. The only difference (when I compare to all my friends who decided to go to MD schools) is that we have ONE additional class in OMM. Other than the extra 200 hours of musculoskeletal training, our classes are exactly the same. I guess there use to be more contention between the two "philosophies" in their approach to medicine. However, in this modern age, there is little difference in how each practices medicine.

I guess DO schools are supposed to have lower numbers (GPA and MCAT) than MD schools, but my opinion is that it isn't that much off. I had a good GPA and did well on the MCAT, but there are some DO schools who turned me down without even interviewing me (most MD schools at least offered me an interview). Percentage wise, I had a higher acceptance rate at MD schools than I did at DO schools. Also, I know people in my class who had even higher MCAT scores than me and people at MD schools who had MUCH lower MCAT scores than me. I guess if you compared TOP tier MD schools to DO schools, then there might be a larger difference. But for the regularly ranked MD schools, it is about the same (I think). I really have no right to say this, because I have not researched it at all--but that is my opinion (based on comparison with my friends and schools I was accepted to). So yeah, that was one long rambling paragraph...I hope this helped at least a little.

Here is the AOA website, it will tell you more about Osteopathic Medicine:AOA

Good luck!
 
Doglover seems like a DO hater...
 
One of the big differences between an allopathic med school (MD) and an ostepathic (DO) one is that many (if not all) DO students actually go through "the match" twice...although not the same one. They have to "match" for their third and fourth year med school rotations which may send them to some other part of the country to even complete their medical training. Then, they have to undergo the real "Match" for residency positions.

MD students generally don't have to undergo this first round of matches as their medical schools have rotation sites established with affiliated hospitals in the same region.
 
One of the big differences between an allopathic med school (MD) and an ostepathic (DO) one is that many (if not all) DO students actually go through "the match" twice...although not the same one. They have to "match" for their third and fourth year med school rotations which may send them to some other part of the country to even complete their medical training. Then, they have to undergo the real "Match" for residency positions.
Click to expand...

I don't really think this is true. Where are you getting this information? As for third and fourth year, I think most DO schools are very similar to MD schools. Granted, not all DO schools have hospitals right on campus, but some do, and most have hospital "affiliations." Even schools (MD and DO) that have their own hospitals still have their students at affiliate hospitals at different locations (e.g. the VA). My friends who attend MD schools in AZ, IL, WI, IN, TN all participate in a kind of lottery (or MATCH if you will) where they are assigned to different locations / hospitals throughout the state for particular rotations (even if they would prefer to stay at their "home hospital"). This is no different than my school.

You can choose to go to other states (especially 4th year), but I don't think this is a REQUIREMENT. However, I COULD be wrong...
:luck:
 
Actually the LECOM students I knew (admittedly a small sample) had to set up all their own 3rd and 4th year rotations. There were apparently a number of locations that students had used in the past but it is nothing like the organized system present at allo schools. Of course other DO schools have a system more akin to the allo system. The 2 PCOM students I knew also had to set up some of their own rotations.
 
ColoMD said:
One of the big differences between an allopathic med school (MD) and an ostepathic (DO) one is that many (if not all) DO students actually go through "the match" twice...although not the same one. They have to "match" for their third and fourth year med school rotations which may send them to some other part of the country to even complete their medical training. Then, they have to undergo the real "Match" for residency positions.

MD students generally don't have to undergo this first round of matches as their medical schools have rotation sites established with affiliated hospitals in the same region.
Click to expand...


Depends on the school. Mine doesn't do anything like this...our rotations are local (based out of Tulsa or OKC) and the required ones are arranged by the school.
 
The OP was not trying to conjure up a debate. They only wanted an answer to a reasonable question.

My take is that about half of people are in DO school based on location, preference of the DO philosophy, or because they had a DO as their physician growing up and honestly thought that was the way to go.
The other 50% are there because like many MD students at their non-preferred school, they ended up there because it got them in "somewhere". And there is nothing wrong with any of those reasons really. DO's are in every branch of medicine and there are many DO's that do much better on the MD licensing exams than even MD's. Just take a look at the USMLE/COMLEX threads this year and see how well many of us have done compared to our MD counterparts. Going to a DO school is no different than going to a mid-tier MD school, except you get the benefit of learning some cool techniques to make people feel better with your hands. And like any MD school, you get what you put in in terms of studying and board outcomes.

Idiopathic and Delaughter on this forum are both DO's who scored in the 99th percentile for both the USMLE and COMLEX. I myself was 94th and 99 respectively, and there are many more of us in the same boat.

DO's are physicians, and MD's are as well. That fight was fought years ago and won by the AOA. The only people that constantly dispute this are premeds who have no clue. We cannot fault average Americans though for not knowing about DO's when they make up less than 5% of all docs, and since the AOA is such a piss-poor marketing agency.

But OP, I hope you have not felt too slighted by the answers given to you. I thought your question was fine. Hope this helps you.
 
I was always under the impression that DO graduates are only qualified to practice medicing inside the United States, whereas an MD can go around the world 😛 I'm probably wrong.
 
Hey guys,
I really didn't want to start a big debate on DO vs MD, I just really hadn't had any experience with DO school. I'll be starting med school at UCI this fall and have had a lot of experience in the med profession while an undergrad at Hopkins, so I thought it was pretty strange not knowing alot about DO school when my friend told me about it. Thanks so much for the informative answers...and for those with the chips on their shoulder, remember that our profession (whether DO or MD) requires us to all ask questions and learn new things. 😀
 
There's a link to international practice rights in the pre-osteo sticky, I believe.

Many countries that don't license DOs also don't license US MDs, but there are some that only don't license the US DOs. Keep in mind, also, that these are for licenses to stay and practice there. Lots of people are concerned about doing foreign aid work...most of those countries are happy to have any physician come in for a little while and provide free healthcare.
 
sephonly said:
I was always under the impression that DO graduates are only qualified to practice medicing inside the United States, whereas an MD can go around the world 😛 I'm probably wrong.
Click to expand...

In terms of medical missions, U.S. trained DO's can go wherever they're needed with groups such as Dr.'s w/o borders and the like. There are a lot of countries that do allow U.S. trained DO's full practice rights. There are also quite a few that don't allow U.S. trained DO's practice rights beyond manipulation. Keep in mind that many of the countries that don't allow U.S. DO's to practice won't let any foreign physicians in; so it's not really a DO bias.

There is a thread in the osteopathic forum addressing international practice rights for DO's with a relatively current list of those countries allow U.S. trained DO's to practice and those that don't.

You may have noticed the emphasis on U.S. trained DO's. That's because in other countries (such as the U.K.) there are DO schools that train DO's to become practitioners of traditional osteopathy, which doesn't use drugs or do surgery (more like chiropracters here in the states).

Hope this helps,
S.
 
Since stoic and I both mentioned it, here's a link to the DO international practice rights thread.


Please keep in mind that some of the info is really old (we've had a hard time getting updated data) and, again, this is all referring to getting licensed to practice permanently in these countries, not necesarily for international aid work.

Hope that helps. 🙂
 
I chose to attend D.O. school because I whole-heartedly agree with the philosophy and wanted the opportunity to learn about OMM. I felt that by learning an additional method, besides what traditional medicine has to offer (e.g. medicine), I would be giving the patient the most comprehensive health care possible. I wanted to give the patient as much options, in terms of treatments, as I can. I chose to attend Western Univ. because of the location, it's a D.O. school, and I wanted to stay in California.
 
Seaglass said:
Actually the LECOM students I knew (admittedly a small sample) had to set up all their own 3rd and 4th year rotations. There were apparently a number of locations that students had used in the past but it is nothing like the organized system present at allo schools. Of course other DO schools have a system more akin to the allo system. The 2 PCOM students I knew also had to set up some of their own rotations.
Click to expand...

LECOM has about 80 affiliated hospitals around the US from which students choose for their rotations. Personally I prefer picking and choosing where I go for each rotation, and going all around the country - it gives a chance to check out hospitals where you might want to do your residency, as well as network.
 
WillHague007 said:
Hey guys,
I really didn't want to start a big debate on DO vs MD, I just really hadn't had any experience with DO school. I'll be starting med school at UCI this fall and have had a lot of experience in the med profession while an undergrad at Hopkins, so I thought it was pretty strange not knowing alot about DO school when my friend told me about it. Thanks so much for the informative answers...and for those with the chips on their shoulder, remember that our profession (whether DO or MD) requires us to all ask questions and learn new things. 😀
Click to expand...

Did you know you'll be attending a former osteopathic school of medicine? In 1961 the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became UC Irvine.
 
There is a difference depending on whether you want to have the greatest chance of obtaining an allopathic residency. No matter what others say the numbers don't lie. An allopathic education will give you a better shot at matching into allopathic residencies. Almost 93% of US allopathic grads match into allopathic residencies whereas only 70% of osteopathic grads who apply for allopathic residencies match. Allopathic residencies are superior to osteopathic ones and many osteopathic students do match into allopathic programs but their chances are less. Check out this link and see what I mean by the numbers don't lie. 😎

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table2_04.pdf
 
ColoMD said:
One of the big differences between an allopathic med school (MD) and an ostepathic (DO) one is that many (if not all) DO students actually go through "the match" twice...although not the same one. They have to "match" for their third and fourth year med school rotations which may send them to some other part of the country to even complete their medical training. Then, they have to undergo the real "Match" for residency positions.

MD students generally don't have to undergo this first round of matches as their medical schools have rotation sites established with affiliated hospitals in the same region.
Click to expand...

This is not true at all.
 
aquaboy said:
There is a difference depending on whether you want to have the greatest chance of obtaining an allopathic residency. No matter what others say the numbers don't lie. An allopathic education will give you a better shot at matching into allopathic residencies. Almost 93% of US allopathic grads match into allopathic residencies whereas only 70% of osteopathic grads who apply for allopathic residencies match. Allopathic residencies are superior to osteopathic ones and many osteopathic students do match into allopathic programs but their chances are less. Check out this link and see what I mean by the numbers don't lie. 😎

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table2_04.pdf
Click to expand...

the only reason less DO's match Allo residencies is because most DO's who apply allo also apply to osteo residencies. The way the match system works, if they match osteo anywhere, they automatically go there. Thousands of allo residencies go unfilled every year... in all specialties. Its not that they couldnt match, its that they matched somewhere else. Why is it that you think allo residencies are better. A residency is a residency. It is what YOU make of it, and what YOU are able to learn that will make you a competent physician, not the name of the program.
 
As a DO student, you can match into virtually any MD residency if you "show them the money". What I mean by this is that you must show them that you can hang with the MD applicants in every way. Take my buddy Jon who is a co-author on my website below. He scored 99th percentile on COMLEX and USMLE. Do you seriously think he will have any problem matching into an allopathic program? Do you think that residencies would choose a meager MD student with a 208 on the USMLE because they are an MD? Think again!! What you guys fail to understand is that residencies look for the most qualified applicants because it makes their lives easier as teachers and faculty. Truth be told, if an FMG interviewed well and had kick ass board scores, a PD is going to take them over a meager US MD who interviewed okay and had modest board scores.

Yes, it is true, the lower end of the bell curve seems to be a little stretched out in DO classes, but the upper end of the bell curve if filled with applicants who are equally qualified and capable as MD applicants. The bottom line is that if you do well in a DO program, and work hard, there is nothing you cannot accomplish. Now if you attend a DO school and do poorly, you probably will not match into allopathic residencies. But that is how life works...the people excel are the ones who win in the end...and rightly so. But don't think because you are an MD student that you will be excluded from competition in the match. If you are an MD student below the mean on boards and grades, you are undoubtedly going to have to watch our for another MD or DO student who has boards and grades above the mean.
 
aquaboy said:
There is a difference depending on whether you want to have the greatest chance of obtaining an allopathic residency. No matter what others say the numbers don't lie. An allopathic education will give you a better shot at matching into allopathic residencies. Almost 93% of US allopathic grads match into allopathic residencies whereas only 70% of osteopathic grads who apply for allopathic residencies match. Allopathic residencies are superior to osteopathic ones and many osteopathic students do match into allopathic programs but their chances are less. Check out this link and see what I mean by the numbers don't lie. 😎

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table2_04.pdf
Click to expand...


Ahh, my DO doubting friend. You are forgetting a very important thing here. Many DO students do a DO internship year and apply to match into a PGY-2 spot for the MD match. So there you go. The table you posted doesn't account for this.
 
doglover said:
It seems as if some people have chips on their shoulders. The OP seemed genuinely pretty clueless, is probably pretty young, and probably didn't need a bunch of DO=MD answers. In a perfect world, maybe, but if DO really and truly equaled MD in every way then there wouldn't need to be DO schools at all. (and that is not an insult so nobody get their underwear in a bunch) Don't be such smartypants about everything, I know many of you like to post (a whole lot) so don't act as if an explanation of the basic differences between DOs and MDs is beneath you. Maybe some people don't realize this, but there are a lot of people, many of them educated, who don't know what DO means. 😎
Click to expand...

i dont understand the difference between a DDS and a DMD, maybe a DMD is a step below a DDS ?? :meanie:

honestly the DO and MD thing is pretty much the same, i guess you could look at it like you know, this is america... what are we fiercely well known for? competition? DO = MD and DMD = DDS, they are not the same letters, but honestly they mean the same thing. Everyone thinks what they are doing is the best and the other is substandard (a step below). just thank the american legal system for the laws that have allowed these degrees to be equal and cause the confusion, or maybe the people who lobbied to make them equal or maybe the genius people who thought up the differences to begin with.

hope this adds to your understanding instead of confusion. have a great day.
 
cooldreams said:
i dont understand the difference between a DDS and a DMD, maybe a DMD is a step below a DDS ?? :meanie:
Click to expand...

While DO an MD do signify slightly different things based on the type of medical school attended, DDS and DMD mean exactly the same thing. Some schools simply title the degree DMD and others DDS, even though the curriculum, accredidation, training, etc. are identical.
 
In fact, there is no distinction.
Both write prescriptions / see patients / do surgery / etc.
Both DO and MD schools are medical schools.

However, there are PRACTICAL distinctions, some of which are trivial and some of which are real.

Trivial:
The general lay public is ignorant and some may come to associate the term "MD" as the only true medical doctors are MDs. So as a DO, you might have to waste a lot of time/energy (if you choose to bother) explaining to ignorant people that you are every bit a doctor (if not more) than MD's.

Real:
If you want to go into certain specialties the odds are much much better (although not absolute) if you have an MD vs DO training. This is simply because the residency programs are traditionally MD dominated. The primary care specialities are very equal and you will find many quality MD and DO programs for Int Med / Fam Med / Peds etc.

For example, I wonder if anybody has the statistics.
A % of cardiothoracic surgeons who are MD vs DO
B % of plastic surgeons who are MD vs DO
C % of infertility specialists who are MD vs DO
D % of family medicine doctors who are MD vs DO
E % of internal medicine doctors who are MD vd DO

I don't have the stats, but I would be willing to bet that A B and C are higher than D E.

But anybody, DO or MD can get into any speciality if they're good enough / lucky enough. It will just be statistically more and less likely as an MD or DO depending on the exact specialty with a higher correlation of DO's with the primary care specialties. After all, interest in overall approaches to general medicine is what attracts applicants towards DO vs MD and for some people, interest in more specific specialties is what attract more applicants to MD schools.

I'm curious if anybody has the actual stats to back up or refute my take on all this.
 
Osteopathic Representation in the Various Specialties

Allergy/Immun 2%
Anesth 4%
Cards 3%
Colon/Rectal Surg 0.1%
Derm 3%
EM 12%
FP 27%
GI 3%
Gen Surg 3%
IM 2%
Neuro Surg 2%
Neuro 3%
ObGyn 3%
Ophtho 2%
Ortho 4%
Oto 4%
Path 1%
Peds 2%
Plastic Surg 1%
Psych 2%
Pulm 3%
Rads 3%
Thor Surg 2%
Uro 2%
 
"What is the difference between an MD and a DO?

A DO (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) is a physician just as an MD is a physician. For more information, refer to What is a Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.)?, available via the American Osteopathic Association. "

reference site : http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3627.html
 
Very cool. Thanks for the stats. What is the source?

My conclusion is that DO's can enter any speciality (except maybe colo-rectal surgery, whoopee)

However, DO's have a big advantage in getting family medicine residencies. Either that or they just apply more.
 
The sources are the 2001 AAMC Data Book and the 1999 AOA Yearbook and Directory.

Since DO's make up about 5% of the total physicians, it shows there is a very large over-representation of them in EM and FP which is expected. What's not expected, perhaps, is their proportional representation in fields such as anesthesiology, orthopoedic surgery, and otolaryngology. Surprisingly they are more represented in these fields, as far as percentage, than in internal medicine (3,244 out of 134,430) and pediatrics (1,020 out of 51,066).
 
(nicedream) said:
Did you know you'll be attending a former osteopathic school of medicine? In 1961 the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became UC Irvine.
Click to expand...
It would have been nice if it stayed DO. At my interview at TUCOM, I was asked that question by the dean. "What is special about UCI medical school relating to osteopathic medicine?"

I knew the answer because luckily I did research about it. 👍
 
WillHague007 said:
Why should UCI have stayed DO? If you look at the types of residency programs the UCI kids are getting into, the majority of them are very competitive residency programs or surgical programs. If UCI remained a DO school then a lot of these programs would be nearly impossible to get into (according to the stats posted on this thread)...so isn't it better that it changed to MD?
Click to expand...

This comment is incredibly lacking in both logic and knowledge. I don't even know where to begin addressing it.

Ok, we'll start with your assumption that Sense made that comment based on some low opinion of UCI, or on the premise that if it was a DO school there would be better access to residencies. Based on this type of thinking, nobody should ever go to a DO school in your mind because of a perceived smaller chance in getting certain residencies. Obviously Sense made the comment based on his personal preference for osteopathic medicine, not because he thinks there would be better chance at residencies.

Secondly, the whole point of the stats on this thread was that DO's ARE in most specialties in proportion to their overall numbers. I don't know where you get the idea of programs being "impossible to get into" for DO's. What, colon and rectal surgery? You can have it bro.
 
WillHague007 said:
Why should UCI have stayed DO? If you look at the types of residency programs the UCI kids are getting into, the majority of them are very competitive residency programs or surgical programs. If UCI remained a DO school then a lot of these programs would be nearly impossible to get into (according to the stats posted on this thread)...so isn't it better that it changed to MD?
Click to expand...
First I will say that the matchlist may have still looked similar. It's not that difficult to specialize as a DO, it's just that of the 1 million doctors in the US only 60,000 are DOs or 6% and of DOs about 60% go into primary care.

That is besides the point though. I just said that because I like the city of Irvine and it would have been nice to live in that area instead of Pomona.
 
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