What is it like to have a career in neuroscience research?

[292439]

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(First of all, I'm a senior high school student)

Is neuroscience research as 'intense' as, say, neurosurgery? I really don't know much about it but I like learning about the brain and I'm considering neuroscience research as a career.

Also, is it possible to do a doctorate in neuroscience after an undergraduate degree in kinesiology (with a minor in psychology)?

My dilemma is that I can't choose between sports medicine and neuroscience. I really like learning about the brain, I'm taking a brain-related course in high school (and am doing rather well in it), but I also like working with sports injuries and am also considering a career in physiotherapy. Is there a way I can keep both doors open?

 

[Neuronix]

This thread was moved from the MD/PhD forum.

No, a neuroscience research career is not as intense as neurosurgery. There's no comparison.

Yes you can do a doctorate in Neuroscience after an undergrad program like you specified. Be sure to take Neuroscience undergrad classes and do some Neuroscience research as an undergrad.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Neuroscience research requires a great deal of not only foundational knowledge, but a lot of specialized knowledge, though it still falls short of the demands of neurosurgery, which seems to be on of the hardest and longest training regimens out there. I second the importance of doing research in the area as an undergrad, as you want to make sure you enjoy it, and you will not be competitiveve for a Ph.D. in the area without research experience (outside of your classes).

 

[292439]

Thanks for the info! It's good to hear that it is not as demanding and I'll be sure to do relevant research in my undergrad.

 

[Phlame217]

I've done primary research into neuroscience specifically analyzing the messanger systems involved in the degradation of specific neurons related to Alzheimer's. It is challenging to speak the language and follow the methodology used to analyze things since many human diseases are hard to study in vivo, and therefore must be done in vitro or in a model animal such as a lab rat. Its amazing how some deductions are made and then extrapolated. But to directly answer your question, neuroscience research is challenging in it own manner, but not as with neurosurgery etc...

 

[psipsina]

Its super challenging in its own way, the intellectual acrobatics and then the paperwork inherent to any research endeavor. Time wise its no where near as intense as neurosurg and the path to a PHD is way shorter as well. Its all about finding what you love to do. I did research in undergrad precisely to figure out if basic science or clinical science was more for me. I realized that while I love the think tank moments and I love the benchwork the endless publish or perish mentality and paperwork pushing would drive me nutty. And its seems that the higher up on the ladder you go the less benchwork there is and the more paperwork. I also felt extremely antisocial living in my lab all the time (yes you have co-workers but its still rather isolating). I realized that I'm a social animal and that patient contact is really important to my happiness. The great thing about being a science major is that you can get all your ducks in a row for medschool while doing research and then you can pursue whichever (or both) at the end of the day.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Pretty much what the previous poster wrote. While "shorter", you are still looking at 4 years of undergrad (with research experience), and then 4-5 more years getting your Ph.D. Some people get an MA/MS between those two....but most go through. Once you get your degree, it is a lot of publishing, presenting, and hours in the lab.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

(First of all, I'm a senior high school student)

Is neuroscience research as 'intense' as, say, neurosurgery? I really don't know much about it but I like learning about the brain and I'm considering neuroscience research as a career.

Also, is it possible to do a doctorate in neuroscience after an undergraduate degree in kinesiology (with a minor in psychology)?

My dilemma is that I can't choose between sports medicine and neuroscience. I really like learning about the brain, I'm taking a brain-related course in high school (and am doing rather well in it), but I also like working with sports injuries and am also considering a career in physiotherapy. Is there a way I can keep both doors open?

Neuroscience is entirely different from neurosurgery. In neurosurgery after 4 years of undergrad, 4 of med school, 7 of residency you finally are an attending, 33 years of age assuming you go straight through and start the process at 18. It's a larger hour per week commitment neurosurgery routinely requires 80 hour weeks. For a neuroscience Ph.D. it's 4 of UG and 3-5 for a Ph.D. Neurosurgery is infinitely more difficult to get into, first you have to get into med school 50% fail to get in anywhere, then to be competitive you need usually top 10%, AOA, 235+ Step I scores and published research, far from certain. Neuroscience is replete with its own issues. First you need to get a Ph.D., 3-5 arduous years. Then to be successful you need a tenure track position. It may be very difficult to get. Your first 3-5 years will be "publish or perish". Hopefully you will get promoted to Associate Professor and gain tenure. If not you get to enjoy being an adjunct "Have Ph.D. will travel". Some never even get a shot at tenure track positions. Sports medicine is generally an orthopedic or family practice fellowship. There is one way to keep both doors open an MD or DO/Ph.D. My sincere advice is if you are unsure take liberal arts courses for freshman and sophomore year, then make a choice. There are 4 years to decide. No rush. It is a poor idea to be of the mentality of either A or B. There is always a C that can rear it's ugly head. Keep your options open and don't fixate. One class that you enjoy/do well in high school does not a career make. Don't decide on a major going in unless you are required to declare one.

 

[292439]

Thank you for all those detailed descriptions! I actually never thought about the "anti-social" aspect. And thanks FutureCTDoc for describing the processes of becoming a neurosurgeon and neuroscientist.

It sounds like research is all about paperwork and deadlines (which is not very appealing to me) but I think I'll try it out by doing some undergrad research.
As for sports medicine, I worked in a physiotherapy clinic for a month and I seemed to like it, I could almost see myself there (whereas with neuroscience, I don't know much about it so I'm not sure how much I like it yet), so I think I'll choose a Kinesiology major.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It sounds like research is all about paperwork and deadlines (which is not very appealing to me) but I think I'll try it out by doing some undergrad research.

How people work within a research environment can vary greatly on the type, length, etc. Every researcher has their "favorite" parts in the process, and the other stuff you just do because it comes along with it....which will also happen if you became a physician and did neurosurgery.

I enjoy the beginning parts of a research project....formulation of a hypothesis, kicking around ideas, looking at different ways to gather the data, trying to figure out how to structure the project, etc. The actual data collection (particularly if it will take a long time) is the least interesting part for me, but then when I get to play with the data...then it gets more fun again. I enjoy presenting at conferences and being able to put my work out there and have people challenge the ideas and make me look at my work differently. The writing up of a manuscript (for publication) is less fun for me, and the editting part is down right annoying...but it is part of the process.

 

[292439]

Is it stressful trying to finish stuff on time? Do you find that you're exhausted when you get home from work?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Is it stressful trying to finish stuff on time? Do you find that you're exhausted when you get home from work?

Research isn't my primary focus now, so I do it when I can. With that being said, there are deadlines if I want to submit my work to conferences, journals, etc. I'd say it ebbs and flows. Earlier this year I had about 7 months where I was primarily researching and lecturing/TA'ing, and I was still able to have a life. Some people thrive on working long hours....I do not, so I try and be more efficient.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Is it stressful trying to finish stuff on time? Do you find that you're exhausted when you get home from work?

I do research on Metallic Organic Frameworks within my school's chem division, it depends on how you work. Generally if you budget time it's not too bad, it can be horrific if you need to do three weeks work in one day. As to the writing it's not that bad. If you get a dictation service it's very easy. Technical writing however is different than most forms of communication. In HS it's most similar to a formal lab report/write up. It's not hard to write just dull as you have to be very specific. Also pressure is worst as a PhD candidate as well as an Assistant professor. Once you have tenure the pressure decreases dramatically.

 

[292439]

So my understanding is that it is possible to be a neuroscientist and still "have a life" (a very important point in my opinion). I think it's something I'd like doing, but again, I won't know for sure until I try it out. Will undergrad research give me an accurate feel of what the life of a neuroscientist is like?

 

[FutureCTDoc]

So my understanding is that it is possible to be a neuroscientist and still "have a life" (a very important point in my opinion). I think it's something I'd like doing, but again, I won't know for sure until I try it out. Will undergrad research give me an accurate feel of what the life of a neuroscientist is like?

If you get a professorship and if you get tenure, two very big ifs, life is great. Most tenured professors I know at major research institutions work 30 hours a week. 40 hours a week would be considered obscene. However there are other paths which require more work. It is usually 9-5 for those with NIH, CDC, major research foundations and industry. UG research is very different, you work under a professor and responsibilities vary from scut work on up. I was fortunate enough that on my project I'm pretty much on equal footing with the professor and he serves as a mentor to me. UG research may give you a vague clue. You often have to self-motivate in this field. Deadlines are often hazy or nonexistent. In UG you are told to do X today or Y by two weeks.

 

[292439]

Oh, that's not bad at all then. But can you elaborate on why getting a professorship and getting tenure are "two very big ifs", is getting a professorship a lot harder than getting into med school? If so, why?

 

[URHere]

Oh, that's not bad at all then. But can you elaborate on why getting a professorship and getting tenure are "two very big ifs", is getting a professorship a lot harder than getting into med school? If so, why?

Research is not like medicine where there are residency spots waiting for most medical students after graduation. MANY people pursue PhDs, and there is room for only very few of them in academia. In order to land a faculty position, you need an amazing publication and funding record, a promising career, a solid resume, and a whole lot of luck. Most people aren't so lucky and go through several postdoc spots (extended research with someone else's lab...positions are generally 2 years each) before landing a position of their own.

And, once you actually land a position as a new faculty member, it's very difficult to go from being an assistant professor to a tenured associate professor. Schools vary a bit on how they promote professors, but some of the older Ivy schools are notorious for promoting a new faculty member only after an old one has retired or died. As a result, many professors end up in limbo for quite awhile before reaching the promised land.

 

[292439]

So what happens to everyone else? And do you get paid while going through postdoc spots?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So what happens to everyone else? And do you get paid while going through postdoc spots?

Most everyone still can find work, whether it is in academia, with a private organization, etc. Tenure v. Non-Tenure positions in academia is basically the divide within academia. Being tenured pretty much guarantees you employment at a university, a stable income, and more freedom to explore your academic interests....without fear you'll get booted because you aren't producing enough research/work. Non-Tenure positions can have the same responsibilities as a tenure track, but it doesn't offer you that stability, and usually doesn't pay as much. Tenure track are almost always competitive positions, and usually requires the person to work themselves up the academic ladder.