what is meant by program "tier"

[MDgonnabe]

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i keep hearing people mentioning residencies in the context of "tiers." what exactly does this hierarchy denote in the psych world? and is there a place where i can look up a program's tier?

 

[Poety]

this is absolute assumption so I probably shouldn't even post but:

I think the top "tiers' whatever the heck that means are like

Yale
MGH
UPEnn
UPitt
Wash U
Duke
Emory
UNC
MUSC

this is for psych - I have no idea about other programs, and this is totally based on peoples perception, how much truth there is to them being better than any other program I don't know. 🙂

P: I think that if you look at how much funding each place gets you can tell a bit about how strong they are - and ofcourse the strongest programs are the big research facilities 🙂

 

[Doc Samson]

this is absolute assumption so I probably shouldn't even post but:

I think the top "tiers' whatever the heck that means are like

Yale
MGH
UPEnn
UPitt
Wash U
Duke
Emory
UNC
MUSC

this is for psych - I have no idea about other programs, and this is totally based on peoples perception, how much truth there is to them being better than any other program I don't know. 🙂

P: I think that if you look at how much funding each place gets you can tell a bit about how strong they are - and ofcourse the strongest programs are the big research facilities 🙂

I agree, most of it is based on perception. However, I'd add the following programs to your list:

Columbia
NYU
Harvard Longwood
Hopkins

I'd disagree that you can rate programs based on research $$$. This doesn't give you any idea of how the clinical experience would be. I don't know how much NIH $$$ MUSC gets, but it's pretty well respected as a residency program.

 

[Poety]

🙂 excellent points to add DS thanks! Someone had mentioned that funding was a reason why places get rated high - I guess they were wrong!!

And you are 100% right re: research doesn't mean good clinical education AT ALL! 🙂

 

[MDgonnabe]

so then what're we going off of here? name only? 😕

 

[Poety]

<shrug> who knows - its probably a mix of how much research is going on, so that you know the faculty are very up to date on whats new and upcoming - a good mix of patients - that offers good exposure, excellent teaching faculty - they are trained well and know medicine as well as psych, and good residents so you can learn from eachother. Lots of fellowships or fellowship opportunity, academic track, elective 4th year, can run iwthout the residents so you're not a work monkey, scholarly activity always around - i guess those things would make a top tier right?

I suppose by name alone those "top tiers" are supposed to have all that, plus the name to boot. But I think you can definitely find this stuff at smaller programs and its like someone else said in another thread: do you wanna be a big fsh in a little pond or a little fish in a big pond? I'd rather be big fish.

 

[MDgonnabe]

But I think you can definitely find this stuff at smaller programs and its like someone else said in another thread: do you wanna be a big fsh in a little pond or a little fish in a big pond? I'd rather be big fish.

fish? eeew no. i wanna be a bunny!

 

[Poety]

howbout big bunny in a small field, or little bunny in a big field. 😛

 

[MDgonnabe]

howbout big bunny in a small field

😱 are you calling me "fat???" 😡







😛

 

[Poety]

no, but those muppets in your avatar are!

 

[MDgonnabe]

no, but those muppets in your avatar are!

they're no mere muppets! they're yip-yips from OUTER SPACE! 😉

 

[Poety]

you're too funny 😀 😛

 

[Doc Samson]

<shrug> who knows - its probably a mix of how much research is going on, so that you know the faculty are very up to date on whats new and upcoming - a good mix of patients - that offers good exposure, excellent teaching faculty - they are trained well and know medicine as well as psych, and good residents so you can learn from eachother. Lots of fellowships or fellowship opportunity, academic track, elective 4th year, can run iwthout the residents so you're not a work monkey, scholarly activity always around - i guess those things would make a top tier right?

I suppose by name alone those "top tiers" are supposed to have all that, plus the name to boot. But I think you can definitely find this stuff at smaller programs and its like someone else said in another thread: do you wanna be a big fsh in a little pond or a little fish in a big pond? I'd rather be big fish.

Another way of looking at it is to ask where graduates of the program continue their career as fellows or faculty. Graduates of the above listed programs would seem to have an advantage in finding placements at competetive institutions (i.e. the other ones on the list) rather than someone coming from a "small pond" program. Ultimately, only significant if you plan on staying in the hallowed halls of academia.

 

[Poety]

What if you want to stay on as faculty in the small pond?

 

[MDgonnabe]

so is the above list extensive for "top tier?" or are there others?

i'm just trying to figure out which of the programs i'm considering will be more competitive to match into.

 

[nortomaso]

so is the above list extensive for "top tier?" or are there others?

i'm just trying to figure out which of the programs i'm considering will be more competitive to match into.

I think the left coast was neglected in that list, so we can add UCLA and UCSF, plus Stanford.

I get the impression that the hardest programs to match into are Columbia, NYU, and Cornell, not because they are the best, but because they are good programs in New York. UCSF similarly seems tough, partly because its a strong program, but more so because its in San Francisco. On the other hand, WashU and Hopkins go very deep on their rank list each year (its probably easier to match there than in a "2nd tier" program in NY), because few applicants are willing to relocate to St Louis or Baltimore.

Bottom line is that I think that location is at least as important as program strength when guaging competetiveness.

 

[MDgonnabe]

Bottom line is that I thing that location is at least as important as program strength when guaging competetiveness.

i think i'd agree. when speaking with various faculty members at my school's psych dept regarding where to go for residency, the first thing any of them asked me was "where do you want to live?"

it's kinda sad. i have one city in particular i want to relocate to, and everything else on my rol will probably be like two standard deviations away from that program.

 

[Poety]

Yer gunna get it MD - don't worry!!! You did your away there right?

 

[MDgonnabe]

Yer gunna get it MD - don't worry!!! You did your away there right?

nope. biggest "duh" moment of the year for yours truly. though the program where i did do my away didn't even interview me. so who knows if even that would've helped? 🙄