What is more respected a PhD or MD?

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Acquiring my MS (not even PhD) in chemical engineering was an order of magnitude more difficult than medical school. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm sure some of the courses are difficult, big deal.

I'm gonna have to go get me a lame PhD real quick so I can continue this argument with "experience". Because working with students pursuing their PhD isn't enough.

So PhD's have this really hard stressful schedule right? How long do they have to finish it?

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[NoMoreAMCAS]

At the lower end, maybe, at the top end...not so much.

And OP, I've found that PhDs in hard science...i.e. Physics, Engineering, and Math can be more intimidating than an MD, I don't know about "respected" though.

So on average you would agree medical school is harder to get into, we all agree on that.

I agree some of those may include difficult courses, but a PhD can be obtained in almost any field.

 

[drizzt3117]

Maybe it's that we have different learning styles, I don't know.

As far as there being a higher attrition rate, of course. No graduate level system in the country has the overall quality of students that medical schools do. If you swapped all the PhD students and MD students into each others program, the drop out rate would follow the PhD students.

I don't think that would be the case. Med schools have a vested interest in their students graduating and not dropping out. PIs have an interest in keeping grad students (cheap labor) in their labs.

 

[Forthegood]

MUCH lower quality of students in PhD studies on average. Of course MD is harder, that is obvious even to PhD students. On the other hand, what is uniquely challenging about the PhD process as opposed to the MD is the individual contribution to science... the thesis in short. You're all on your own, and for some students (even with mentors and faculty), they can't handle such a large project.

But in terms of knowledge, strict schedules, time, pressure, money, and nearly everything else, med school takes the cake.

 

[drizzt3117]

Yeah, the one thing about PhD students is the lack of financial pressure... but that's outweighed to a large degree by the lack of future earning potential unless they make a huge patentable discovery.

 

[SleepingJune]

i protest this voting poll.
something to consider for the OP:
I ran into an old high school classmate today at the gas station. He was all suited up in his auto mechanic work clothes and had quite a messy appearance. But he is still someone I respect on the basis that he is a good guy. He graduated from Wyotech...not exactly something people run around bragging about.

Anyhow, here is the thing that happened that I remembered cuz I found it rather important; I never told him I am going to medical school, and he even asked what I've been up to / whats going on --- which kinda opened the door up for me to pass on my great news. But I just didn't consider it important nor relevant. I didn't want to create that distance between him and myself. I sometimes feel that we too often judge others based on certain "successes" they've achieved in their life.

Needless to say, I don't respect someone more/less because of the degree they hold. People face varying circumstances in their lives and have different interests that led them to exactly where they are today. <end-rant>

Very well said.

Go dig ditches out in the sun for 12 hours a day at 8 bucks a ****ing hour and then reevaluate your question.

Jagger hit the nail on the head. My mom didn't go to school beyond HS and worked her ***** off to raise 2 kids by herself; took whatever jobs she could to make sure we were well-fed, clothed, and cared for medically. She, and others like her, deserve a hell of a lot more respect than ANYONE who's concerned about whether or not the title they hold is the prettiest.

And fyi, PhD's work their arses off too. A friend's testable examination material covered 15 pages worth of books and articles (Political Geography); he had to know them cold in order to pass the examination committee.

In the end, respect is given where respect is earned, regardless of the title.


Oh, and if anyone is still worried about title, check out Notes on the PhD.

"Major universities (and most colleges) require each member of their faculty to hold a Ph.D. and to engage in research activities. Why? To insure that the faculty have sufficient expertise to teach advanced courses and to force faculty to remain current in their chosen field. The U.S. State Department diplomatic protocol ranks the title "professor'' higher than the title "doctor''."

 

[JJMrK]

Nice.

🙂

 

[JokerMD]

wow...premeds are seriously....dumb....

1) only a ****** would think that getting a phd is easy.

2) in academia, phd is probably more repected

3) in the real world (as in your average idiot) md is probably more respected

4) i assure you that in life, if you are super concerned about what other people think about you, you will suffer...

anywho...im sleepy and this thread has irritated me beyond belief 😴

 

[BozoSparky]

Its easier to get into a PhD program, we agree on that.

Do you honestly believe that the work required to get your PhD is harder than getting your MD?

Oh, and I'm not saying getting your PhD is an absolute cake walk, I'm saying it's easier than getting your MD.

They are both pretty hard...but in different ways, as has been said above, which is why the comparison is lame.

In defense of the graduate student...

Graduate school experiences are variable, so yes, lazy graduate students exist. However, you can also find graduate students who work extremely hard and can bend your mind.

 

[Forthegood]

However, you can also find graduate students who work extremely hard and can bend your mind.

👍👍👍👍

What? Did someone say that the world might not be as simple as we here on SDN would like to make it? SHHHHhhhhhhhhh

 

[koffein]

Devoting your life to research that may end up being a part of benefiting humanity versus applying PhDs' research in your clinic and making more monies in the process?

I definitely respect the work of scientists to the highest degree.

MDs are just on a different axis of comparison.

If you ask which is more noble? Then i'd say its PhDs all the way.

However, i say this only for those involved in research that can be applied to humans or improve society in some way and anthropologists and historians.

 

[koffein]

.

 

[Suenya]

I was going to make another post describing how some PhD programs are much more competitive than MD programs and some are much less and give examples of each, and also make the oft repeated statement that the two are very different, and different people are more suited to one or the other and will find that one easier, but instead....

 

[Kaustikos]

I have both. I'm even one of those rare idiots who did them separately.

It really is an apples to oranges comparison. Medical school was like getting repeatedly kicked in the balls, but all you had to do was hold on and let the wave pass over you. Everything is scheduled, finite, and predictable. Yes, it blows, but you can literally count the days until it's over. Also, while studying gets monotonous, the clerkships provided ample variety. Even the worst ones came to an end like clockwork. After it's over, your life is more or less on a set path: residency +/- fellowship then job. Simple.

A PhD based on scientific experimentation is a whole different ballgame. You are essentially set adrift with little more than enough rope to hang yourself with. Your PI can be great or a total dick, your lab can be supportive or backstabbing, and your experiments are almost guaranteed to fail, fail, and fail again before they work. There is no set finish date, just a seemingly endless horizon that will always need one more gel, one more Western, one more PCR. To top it off, there is the constant threat that your work will ultimately just fail, or you'll get scooped, and despite years of toil, in a heartbeat you can literally be left with nothing. All this and then you get to postdoc for five more years, and then you get to fight for one of the scant jobs, and then you're either fighting for funding and tenure or you're in industry and acting as someone's bitch. It's really quite soul crushing.

Thank you! One of the most disconcerting and intimidating things, to me, about PhDs are pretty much what you said. 👍

 

[Myuu]

&#12381;&#12358;&#12391;&#12377;&#12424;. &#12377;&#12372;&#12356;&#12391;&#12377;&#12397;.&#12288;Hiro Nakamura says: &#12420;&#12383;&#65374;&#65374;&#65374;&#65374;&#65374;&#65281;&#12288;^_^&#12288;lol

(&#12377;&#12415;&#12414;&#12379;&#12435;&#12289;&#12377;&#12371;&#12375;&#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#12434;&#12288;&#12399;&#12394;&#12375;&#12356;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;&#12391;&#12418;&#12288;&#12414;&#12384;&#12376;&#12423;&#12358;&#12378;&#12391;&#12399;&#12354;&#12426;&#12414;&#12379;&#12435;&#12290;&#12288;&#12384;&#12363;&#12425;&#12289;&#12288;&#12414;&#12356;&#12395;&#12385;&#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#12434;&#12288;&#12409;&#12435;&#12365;&#12423;&#12375;&#12414;&#12377;&#12290;&#65289;

Maa, isshokenmei benkyou suru koto ni ganbaru to, mou sugu jouzu ni naru deshou?🙂

 

[Kaustikos]

Maa, isshokenmei benkyou suru koto ni ganbaru to, mou sugu jouzu ni naru deshou?🙂

All I understood was ni... I need to rewatch firefly for my continued education in chinese...

 

[bakanoisha]

Maa, isshokenmei benkyou suru koto ni ganbaru to, mou sugu jouzu ni naru deshou?🙂

&#12431;&#12363;&#12426;&#12414;&#12379;&#12435;&#12424; ^_^ I've only got about 2.5 wks of &#26085;&#26412;&#35486; behind me, lol.

 

[bakanoisha]

All I understood was ni... I need to rewatch firefly for my continued education in Chinese...

What you quoted was actually Japanese 😀

 

[Kaustikos]

What you quoted was actually Japanese 😀

oh.. well ni means "you" in chinese, so I messed up b/c of that

 

[Myuu]

&#12431;&#12363;&#12426;&#12414;&#12379;&#12435;&#12424; ^_^ I've only got about 2.5 wks of &#26085;&#26412;&#35486; behind me, lol.

What I said was:

"Well, if you study really hard, you'll eventually get skilled at it, right? 😀"

2 1/2 weeks and you're already calling yourself an idiot doctor?

oh.. well ni means "you" in chinese, so I messed up b/c of that

It's... kinda... close...-ish.

 

[lakersmd]

MD...but some phd's are harder to get

 

[disorder]

this is stupid.

i give both a lot of respect.

 

[Fulfuric]

Plus the fact that obtaining a PhD is extremely easy when compared to getting an MD.

Are you serious? Sure...getting into a PhD program may not be as "hard" but the work is extremely demanding. The PhD students (Microbiology) I work with stay in the labs from 8AM to like 8PM at night everyday...even weekends! Their oral exam in front of the committee at the end of the first year is also scary as hell. Doing experiments involve thinking critically, researching past experiments, and being creative! It's not something you can just get from books and memorize the crap out of it. I think both PhD and MD degrees are respectful. PhDs are the ones that are doing medical researches and coming up with new treatments and findings!

 

[Kaustikos]

this is stupid.

i give both a lot of respect.

Agreed,
but someone needs to beat this stupid idea that one is more respectful than another. Actually, the fact that people in general complain more frequently about physicians than PhDs shows that one is less respected. (who has ever heard someone complain about PhDs vs the numerous complaints from patients leading to a lack of respect?*)



*I respect both professions

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Agreed,
but someone needs to beat this stupid idea that one is more respectful than another. Actually, the fact that people in general complain more frequently about physicians than PhDs shows that one is less respected. (who has ever heard someone complain about PhDs vs the numerous complaints from patients leading to a lack of respect?*)



*I respect both professions

lol, when was the last time a PhD treated a patient? Of course you'll hear more complaints from patients about MDs because they interact with patients. PhDs aren't in the service industry...lol...come on, now you are comparing apples to giraffes.

 

[exoslimjim]

has anyone heard of the nobel prize? for medicine, the number of MD recipients is so many folds less than PhD.

the thread posts are a little ridiculous. comparing MDs to PhDs is not too sensible. But in terms of contributions to the field of applied science and medicine, PhDs have long held greater influence.

Genentech has a new drug gdc0449 for several cancers. interestingly, this particular pathway was long dominated by beachy, chen, and scott. all of which are researchers and PhDs.

i think a better question is asking how much medicine relies on research and that clinicians are not necessarily the ones that drive cures. drugs for trials have to come from somewhere....

and whoever says PhD is easier than MD has no idea how hard many grad students, postdocs, PIs work. Grad students are taught to investigate unknowns. Med students are taught known knowledge and how to apply it. big difference. and i've known more researchers, whether MDs or PhDs, who worked 80-120hr weeks than med students or residents.

 

[Kaustikos]

lol, when was the last time a PhD treated a patient? Of course you'll hear more complaints from patients about MDs because they interact with patients. PhDs aren't in the service industry...lol...come on, now you are comparing apples to giraffes.

If we're caclulating respect through the opinions of the public? No, we're not. Disrespect by patients toward their physician is more incidental than disrespect to PhDs. Even if you count pre-meds.*




*Also, I'm only arguing this because we're already discussing a ******ed topic to begin with so why not add more fuel to the fire.
As was said by a great orator:
"we didn't start the fire
it was always burning"

 

[Siverhideo1985]

If we're caclulating respect through the opinions of the public? No, we're not. Disrespect by patients toward their physician is more incidental than disrespect to PhDs. Even if you count pre-meds.*




*Also, I'm only arguing this because we're already discussing a ******ed topic to begin with so why not add more fuel to the fire.
As was said by a great orator:
"we didn't start the fire
it was always burning"

That's like saying that people who stay at hotels disrespect the hotel staff more often than the guy who picks up the garbage at the store around the corner. Of course they do...because they don't interact at all with the garbage man, but they might be unsatisfied with the hotel service.

A patient interacts with MDs so you will hear more complaints from them about the docs. The public at large doesn't interact with PhD's...they mostly interact among themselves because they aren't in a service industry.

Saying that MDs are disrespected more often by patients than PhD's are, may be true, but adds nothing to the question at hand.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

I think the answer would be different at my country club rather than at my yaught club. Just jk

To be honest I really don't know anything about Phd, does any situation exist where a Phd can perscribe medications.

 

[Kaustikos]

That's like saying that people who stay at hotels disrespect the hotel staff more often than the guy who picks up the garbage at the store around the corner. Of course they do...because they don't interact at all with the garbage man, but they might be unsatisfied with the hotel service.

A patient interacts with MDs so you will hear more complaints from them about the docs. The public at large doesn't interact with PhD's...they mostly interact among themselves because they aren't in a service industry.

Saying that MDs are disrespected more often by patients than PhD's are, may be true, but adds nothing to the question at hand.

You realize i'm being facetious, right?

 

[Siverhideo1985]

You realize i'm being facetious, right?

Me too...god, how thick do you have to be?

 

[Kaustikos]

Me too...god, how thick do you have to be?

as long as we're on the same page


Seriously,
the average disrespect for physicians has been shown to be statistically far worse than the average disrespect for PhDs. A recent poll by CNN showed that 76% of people hate doctors and think they are below them while an astounding 98% think PhDs are god.

Also, a recent published paper in the New England Journal of PhDs Are Awesome showed that PhDs are more than 2 Standard Deviations further than the average person in terms of awesome.

Let's also not forget that physicians uphold the age-old tradition of being sadististic *****holes who only care about money.

Let's face it, Noble Prize = M@d R3$p3ct. PhDs have earned 2 x 10^600 more noble prizes than MDs (verifiable by wikipedia and my best friends dads uncles wifes cat, toto). Therefore, PhDs are more respected

 

[Siverhideo1985]

*****holes

I am confused by the fives stars before "holes"...