What is Residency really like?

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TGibson81

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We have all seen the crap TV shows that show a soap opera centered around a residency, but does anyone know what its really like??

Im curious, do ALL grads have residencies in hospitals? If I want to go into family medicine, would i do a res. in a hospital or a practice?

Id like to know what the different options are.

Thanks!

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We have all seen the crap TV shows that show a soap opera centered around a residency, but does anyone know what its really like??

Im curious, do ALL grads have residencies in hospitals? If I want to go into family medicine, would i do a res. in a hospital or a practice?

Id like to know what the different options are.

Thanks!
  1. Residency... in a hospital.
  2. Denny's.
:)
 
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residencies are in hospitals and their associated clinics. if you do family med, most of your first year will be various inpatient rotations with some clinic; the next two years will be a combo of inpatient family and other services and an increasing amount of clinic.
 
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Its like a car crash, plane crash, train crash, and boat crash happening simultaneously at a place where a road crosses train tracks above a waterway...i don't know i'm not a doctor nor do i play one on TV.
 
As stated earlier, all residencies are some combination of hospital and clinic time. Also, the earlier description of fam med residency is accurate.

There aren't a whole lot of variations on this; you can’t be a doctor without being in a hospital for a good portion of your training.

Residency is different for each specialty, so I doubt you'll get a responder to describe each one. Pick some specialties and do your research.

In general, there isn't time for all the drama that is portrayed on television. Everyone is not sleeping with each other. People have families that they go home to, life isn't really a party. Yes, many surgeons can be jerks at times. Work week is 80 hours + or – for surgical specialties and inpatient medicine, a little less for other specialties. Intern year (first year) is typically the worst.

-senior medical student / admissions committee interviewer
 
I hate how shows like Grey's Anatomy colors the general public's idea of the medical field. I get asked some stupid questions sometimes about why med school/residency is so drama filled. I'm sure some of that stuff happens but the way everyone sleeps with everyone else in that show Grey's Anatomy is just bordering on full-scale Roman orgy. ****, if I experience half the drama that happens in just one ****ing episode of that show I would quit on the spot. I'm talking like interpersonal drama not the actual drama associated with doing your job (like a patient coding). Dear lord, I don't know how these girls that watch this show don't have a cardiac arrest after each show, it's so ridiculous.
 
I hate how shows like Grey's Anatomy colors the general public's idea of the medical field. I get asked some stupid questions sometimes about why med school/residency is so drama filled. I'm sure some of that stuff happens but the way everyone sleeps with everyone else in that show Grey's Anatomy is just bordering on full-scale Roman orgy. ****, if I experience half the drama that happens in just one ****ing episode of that show I would quit on the spot. I'm talking like interpersonal drama not the actual drama associated with doing your job (like a patient coding). Dear lord, I don't know how these girls that watch this show don't have a cardiac arrest after each show, it's so ridiculous.

I personally only signed up for this in hopes of Roman orgies.
 
Also, there is NO soundtrack to a real residency, though I wish there was (time would probably pass more quickly). :)
 
I hate how shows like Grey's Anatomy colors the general public's idea of the medical field. I get asked some stupid questions sometimes about why med school/residency is so drama filled. I'm sure some of that stuff happens but the way everyone sleeps with everyone else in that show Grey's Anatomy is just bordering on full-scale Roman orgy. ****, if I experience half the drama that happens in just one ****ing episode of that show I would quit on the spot. I'm talking like interpersonal drama not the actual drama associated with doing your job (like a patient coding). Dear lord, I don't know how these girls that watch this show don't have a cardiac arrest after each show, it's so ridiculous.

I don't understand why people get up in arms about medical shows being a slight deviation from reality.

Its not like Hogans Heroes was historically accurate by portraying concentration camps as fun-filled comedic get-aways or Miami detectives are actually all vigilante serial killers (dexter is from miami, right?)
 
I don't understand why people get up in arms about medical shows being a slight deviation from reality.

Its not like Hogans Heroes was historically accurate by portraying concentration camps as fun-filled comedic get-aways or Miami detectives are actually all vigilante serial killers (dexter is from miami, right?)

Good point, but Futurama was historically accurate, so I see how people might get confused.
 
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We have all seen the crap TV shows that show a soap opera centered around a residency, but does anyone know what its really like??

Im curious, do ALL grads have residencies in hospitals? If I want to go into family medicine, would i do a res. in a hospital or a practice?

Id like to know what the different options are.

Thanks!

Here's an example of an intern year experience (not giving out specialty or location, though many places and fields are similar). Typical weekly hours in most monthly rotations are between 75-85, with a few weeks above or below these lines, averaging out to about 80/week. Get there around 5:30 am and leave between 6-7pm each day, 6 days/week. You get 1 day off in 7 averaged monthly, as per the rules. Have overnight call 0-2 times per week (meaning you don't sleep at all those nights). Thanks to night float, call is less frequent, because each resident in this program does a one month block of nights during the year. Overnight shifts can run up to 30 hours (capped at this time by "law"). The averaged 30 hour rule and 80 hour work week are ACGME "legal" requirements, though many programs run afoul of these from time to time, and nobody who doesn't want to damage their program says anything. You get 3 1/2 weeks of vacation a year, which cannot be in a single block.

Needless to say, you are always tired, because the time you are out of the hospital is pretty minimal and you are always trying to push the envelope between trying to have a life and getting a night's sleep. Many average 5-6 hours/night on non-call nights, which is enough to keep you functional, but not enough to keep you from constantly yawning.

Pretty much all fields do most of their residency in the hospital setting, with some clinic exposure. The intensity varies, but there are very few residencies where you don't have a steep learning curve and long hours in the early years. Most of the cushier specialties still make folks do a prelim year in medicine, surgery or transitional (an assortment of fields) as the thinking is that folks need to be generalists first and then specialize. A lot of family medicine programs have their residents rotate along with surgery and ICU medicine interns at community hospitals.

While an intern, you are the low man on the totem pole and at some programs are treated as such. Thus the benign vs malignant issue looms large when selecting residencies, because you will be getting a beat down during intern year and it makes a big difference on how hard they like to beat you.

But you will learn a lot, and toward the end you will be good at a lot of things, be able to get patients swiftly off your service, paper the files appropriately, dictate like a machine, and have lots of defense mechanisms for anything thrown at you overnight regarding cross-cover patients you don't really know all that well. It's hard, and has an absurdly steep learning curve, but by the end, you will walk through the halls with the swagger of someone who actually feels like he knows what he's doing. And in June, the next set of interns starts and you get to join in the beat down. :smuggrin:
 
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Here's an example of an intern year experience (not giving out specialty or location, though many places and fields are similar).


Agreed. Here's an example of something different. Emergency Medicine Residency: off-service months are as described above. ED months are typical 50-60 hours / week, all shift work. However, you are working from start to finish, there is usually no downtime that may be found on a medicine or surgical service.
 
Law2Doc- this is VERY insightful! Thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly.
 
Agreed. Here's an example of something different. Emergency Medicine Residency: off-service months are as described above. ED months are typical 50-60 hours / week, all shift work. However, you are working from start to finish, there is usually no downtime that may be found on a medicine or surgical service.

Except that more and more EM residencies are requiring a prelim year of medicine or surgery now as the intern year. I'm working alongside several such folks and promise you they share the misery of the rest of us.
 
Except that more and more EM residencies are requiring a prelim year of medicine or surgery now as the intern year. I'm working alongside several such folks and promise you they share the misery of the rest of us.

True, when an EM resident is off-service he or she functions just as any other resident originally on that service, but just in case other posters are interested in emergency medicine, here's some more info.

I would disagree with the bolded statement. It is RARE for an EM program to require a traditional medicine for surgery prelim year (only 5 of the 100+ programs are set up this way). Nearly all EM residencies, regardless of whether they are 3 years (~80%) or 4 years (~20%), do have a very general first year (surgery, OB, anesthesia, medicine ward, peds wards, etc.) mixed with a few months in the ED, but rarely is this an independent prelim year as suggested above.

Also, while there are a few programs that are considering increasing from 3 to 4 years, none of these programs are planning on adding a prelim year, instead they are adding a 4th year to create more time in the ED as well as for more administrative and elective time.

-Senior medical student / Future EM resident who just finished researching every program in the US.

More info at: http://www.saem.org/saemdnn/
 
Thank you for your input.
 
Agreed. Here's an example of something different. Emergency Medicine Residency: off-service months are as described above. ED months are typical 50-60 hours / week, all shift work. However, you are working from start to finish, there is usually no downtime that may be found on a medicine or surgical service.

Here's an example of an intern year experience (not giving out specialty or location, though many places and fields are similar). Typical weekly hours in most monthly rotations are between 75-85, with a few weeks above or below these lines, averaging out to about 80/week. Get there around 5:30 am and leave between 6-7pm each day, 6 days/week. You get 1 day off in 7 averaged monthly, as per the rules. Have overnight call 0-2 times per week (meaning you don't sleep at all those nights). Thanks to night float, call is less frequent, because each resident in this program does a one month block of nights during the year. Overnight shifts can run up to 30 hours (capped at this time by "law"). The averaged 30 hour rule and 80 hour work week are ACGME "legal" requirements, though many programs run afoul of these from time to time, and nobody who doesn't want to damage their program says anything. You get 3 1/2 weeks of vacation a year, which cannot be in a single block..


So what is the most and least busy you can expect to be, and how often does that happen? And what's it like just on average? 80 hrs a week sounds hellacious but depending on the intensity it could be pretty doable.
 
We have all seen the crap TV shows that show a soap opera centered around a residency, but does anyone know what its really like??

Im curious, do ALL grads have residencies in hospitals? If I want to go into family medicine, would i do a res. in a hospital or a practice?

Id like to know what the different options are.

Thanks!

Well.. maybe the real question you should ask (aka. worry) about is...

How is intern year REALLY like?

haha

But nonetheless, i can safely assure you that its full of: (McDreamy drama with a mix of House arroggance and Scrubs fun, not to mention that all the nurses are Iraqi veterans and are tall and blond... mostly resembling Veronica Flanagan) x10 [/sarcasm off]
 
So what is the most and least busy you can expect to be, and how often does that happen? And what's it like just on average? 80 hrs a week sounds hellacious but depending on the intensity it could be pretty doable.

Every specialty and individual rotation is different. I can only comment on the EM residencies and some of the rotations they do. On one end of the spectrum, you have your ED / anesthesia / ultrasound / EMS months at about 50-60 hours / week (usually shift work). As stated earlier these are usually high intensity shifts, which is why residents don't do 80 hours worth. On the other end of the spectrum you have trauma surgery and critical care, which are usually 80+ hr/week with call every 3rd to 5th night. Call day shifts are typically 30 hours long, it varies daily whether or not you can get sleep during the night.

If a program follows the ACGME (accrediting body for residency programs) rules, residents are limited to an average of 80 hour / week (so 70 one week and 90 the next is ok) and no more than 30 hours in a row. If you want to be a doctor you'll have to accept that residency is rough. Think about it, you need to learn enough to practice a medical specialty in 3-7 years depending on the program.
 
For those in the know, are there any studies that investigate the correlation b/t medical errors by residents and the hours they work (I'm expecting strong positive correlation)??

Where does patient safety fall in the calculus of maximizing ridiculously cheap labor (aka residents) and not maiming/killing people??

Also, does the 80hr/week average have ANY empirical basis, or is this the max number that PDs can subject residents to AND be able to sleep at night :smuggrin::smuggrin:??


Thanks
 
Yes they are all in a hospital. Even if you do family medicine you need to develop skills to understand and care for inpatients.

No they are in NO WAY like what you see on TV. Everyone is exhausted, overworked, and underpaid. But it is awesome in it's own way, it's the first time you get to be independent as a doctor...
 
For those in the know, are there any studies that investigate the correlation b/t medical errors by residents and the hours they work (I'm expecting strong positive correlation)??


On this note, discussed A LOT, yes there have been studies and NO they have not shown that teaching hospitals where residents work heavy hours have higher incidence of mistakes. This horse has been beaten to death. Also, you should want to work the hours, so you are confident as a doctor no matter what state of mind you are in. After residency you are on your own, and your patients need you even if you were up all night...
 
On this note, discussed A LOT, yes there have been studies and NO they have not shown that teaching hospitals where residents work heavy hours have higher incidence of mistakes. This horse has been beaten to death. Also, you should want to work the hours, so you are confident as a doctor no matter what state of mind you are in. After residency you are on your own, and your patients need you even if you were up all night...

Exactly. The work hour restrictions (the 80hr/wk restriction is relatively new) have not been shown to decrease medical errors relative to when there were no work hour restrictions.

Furthermore, certain types of medical errors have actually increased since the implementation of work hour restrictions. These errors are thought to be due to the cross-cover physician not knowing the patient well (since hours are restricted now, there is more sign-out to physicians not familiar with the patients).

As an aside, I still think the work hour restrictions are good for training physicians, helps you keep your sanity and live a healthier life (at least it will for me). If any one is curious about the origin of the work hour restrictions internet search: Libby Zion (key case to know for any physician).
 
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On this note, discussed A LOT, yes there have been studies and NO they have not shown that teaching hospitals where residents work heavy hours have higher incidence of mistakes. This horse has been beaten to death. Also, you should want to work the hours, so you are confident as a doctor no matter what state of mind you are in. After residency you are on your own, and your patients need you even if you were up all night...
Thanks for the info. I must say if this is the consensus, (longer hours don't correlate with higher error rates) it's somewhat counter-intuitive, at least superficially.

From personal exp, I've been working 45-55hrs/wk along with grad school for more than two yrs; my work was in analytical/pharmaceutical chemistry. I came to realize that I made more errors (silly ones due mostly to inattention, poor concentration etc) towards the end of the day, after >12hrs on the job or school. Sometimes I would consecutively make the same error (say dilution) and then I'd give in to the reality that I'm simply exhausted and call it a day. I know this is purely anecdotal and chemistry and medicine are totally different, however as humans, we do have limits in attention span, physical and cognitive stamina etc... Maybe 80hrs/wk isn't the magic number as far as such limits go, but one's body/mind has to quit after a certain number of consecutive working hours...

I did find some pertinent articles on pubmed and I'll go thru them, if someone has a link to a review article on this subject that will be awesome...

I agree with you that more "apprenticeship" hours translates into greater competence and confidence, without a doubt. My concern, which may be unfounded based on the empirical data, is about the "opportunity cost" of such marathon training sessions, is patient safety ever compromised in the quest for more training hours?? If so, is that a reasonable trade-off??
 
Thanks for the info. I must say if this is the consensus, (longer hours don't correlate with higher error rates) it's somewhat counter-intuitive, at least superficially.

From personal exp, I've been working 45-55hrs/wk along with grad school for more than two yrs; my work was in analytical/pharmaceutical chemistry. I came to realize that I made more errors (silly ones due mostly to inattention, poor concentration etc) towards the end of the day, after >12hrs on the job or school. Sometimes I would consecutively make the same error (say dilution) and then I'd give in to the reality that I'm simply exhausted and call it a day. I know this is purely anecdotal and chemistry and medicine are totally different, however as humans, we do have limits in attention span, physical and cognitive stamina etc... Maybe 80hrs/wk isn't the magic number as far as such limits are concerned, but one's body/mind has to quit after a certain number of consecutive working hours...

I did find some pertinent articles on pubmed and I'll go thru them, if someone has a link to a review article on this subject that will be awesome...

I agree with you that more "apprenticeship" hours translates into greater competence and confidence, without a doubt. My concern, which may be unfounded based on the empirical data, is about the "opportunity cost" of such marathon training sessions, is patient safety ever compromised in the quest for more training hours?? If so, is that a reasonable trade-off??
I don't think it's counterintuitive that less hours worked = more mistakes in a field like medicine. Think about the increased number of handoffs needed to keep residents under the 80 hours. Every time a handoff occurs, there's potential for mistakes. That's what several studies have shown; there's an increase in mistakes in the post-80hr era due to the increased amount of handoffs.
 
I don't think it's counterintuitive that less hours worked = more mistakes in a field like medicine. Think about the increased number of handoffs needed to keep residents under the 80 hours. Every time a handoff occurs, there's potential for mistakes. That's what several studies have shown; there's an increase in mistakes in the post-80hr era due to the increased amount of handoffs.

Good point, I didn't consider that. Thanks for chiming in.. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Here's an example of an intern year experience (not giving out specialty or location, though many places and fields are similar). Typical weekly hours in most monthly rotations are between 75-85, with a few weeks above or below these lines, averaging out to about 80/week. Get there around 5:30 am and leave between 6-7pm each day, 6 days/week. You get 1 day off in 7 averaged monthly, as per the rules. Have overnight call 0-2 times per week (meaning you don't sleep at all those nights). Thanks to night float, call is less frequent, because each resident in this program does a one month block of nights during the year. Overnight shifts can run up to 30 hours (capped at this time by "law"). The averaged 30 hour rule and 80 hour work week are ACGME "legal" requirements, though many programs run afoul of these from time to time, and nobody who doesn't want to damage their program says anything. You get 3 1/2 weeks of vacation a year, which cannot be in a single block.
...

Can you elaborate on what night float is? Also I've heard the term q3, q4, etc. Does that mean you're on call every third or fourth night?
 
Can you elaborate on what night float is? Also I've heard the term q3, q4, etc. Does that mean you're on call every third or fourth night?

i remember reading about this in the book "intern"

if i recall correctly, i think a night float system is where the there's a team that basically has a "night shift" that covers something from like 7pm-7am and this team is in charge of admitting new patients and covering the patients that were given to them at 7pm.

and then the group of people with the night float rotates so that everyone does it for a few weeks/month depending on the system and how many interns/residents there are
 
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I don't think it's counterintuitive that less hours worked = more mistakes in a field like medicine. Think about the increased number of handoffs needed to keep residents under the 80 hours. Every time a handoff occurs, there's potential for mistakes. That's what several studies have shown; there's an increase in mistakes in the post-80hr era due to the increased amount of handoffs.

You'll notice that nurses have a fairly good system for dealing with this that docs haven't gotten down pat yet. They have report. If you try to interrupt nurses at shift change, you'll get your head chopped off. This is why CNAs and nurses tend to work slightly different shifts, so that while the nurses are in report, the CNAs can deal with most of the patient needs.

Can you elaborate on what night float is? Also I've heard the term q3, q4, etc. Does that mean you're on call every third or fourth night?

Basically, you work the night shift for a month instead of the day shift. You aren't on call, but you may be the only doc in house during that time, depending on the set-up of your program.
 
Also there are residencies out there like psych, derm, rad onc that are more relaxed and depending on program can be 40-50 hrs a week
 
i remember reading about this in the book "intern"

if i recall correctly, i think a night float system is where the there's a team that basically has a "night shift" that covers something from like 7pm-7am and this team is in charge of admitting new patients and covering the patients that were given to them at 7pm.

and then the group of people with the night float rotates so that everyone does it for a few weeks/month depending on the system and how many interns/residents there are


You'll notice that nurses have a fairly good system for dealing with this that docs haven't gotten down pat yet. They have report. If you try to interrupt nurses at shift change, you'll get your head chopped off. This is why CNAs and nurses tend to work slightly different shifts, so that while the nurses are in report, the CNAs can deal with most of the patient needs.



Basically, you work the night shift for a month instead of the day shift. You aren't on call, but you may be the only doc in house during that time, depending on the set-up of your program.

Thanks!
 
You'll notice that nurses have a fairly good system for dealing with this that docs haven't gotten down pat yet. They have report. If you try to interrupt nurses at shift change, you'll get your head chopped off. This is why CNAs and nurses tend to work slightly different shifts, so that while the nurses are in report, the CNAs can deal with most of the patient needs.

It’s not that the docs haven't figured it out yet, it’s that there isn't enough time to do it this way. A nurse has ~6 patients that they sign out in ~30 minutes. A covering doctor can have 40 patients and there isn't enough time for a 3+ hour sign-out at the beginning and end of every shift. It’s an imperfect system.
 
It’s not that the docs haven't figured it out yet, it’s that there isn't enough time to do it this way. A nurse has ~6 patients that they sign out in ~30 minutes. A covering doctor can have 40 patients and there isn't enough time for a 3+ hour sign-out at the beginning and end of every shift. It’s an imperfect system.
^ This. :thumbup:
 
i wish more medical students and residents will contribute like this in the pre-allo forum.
 
Also there are residencies out there like psych, derm, rad onc that are more relaxed and depending on program can be 40-50 hrs a week

Let's not confuse specialty with the residency. All of the "advanced" residencies, including rad onc, derm, rads, optho, PM&R etc require a prelim or transitional year as the initial residency year. So you would be doing a fairly typical intern year in any of these fields. In psych, which is categorical, you don't need a prelim year, but you will be doing months of rotations in things like IM and neuro where you may be hitting big numbers of hours. Also psych interns may have q3 or q4 call even in the psych months, so it would be rare to hit a low of 40-50 hours/week with any consistency. Sorry but residency is hard no matter what field. Internship is harder and pretty much everybody has some form of internship year if they plan to complete a residency. That's just the way it is. There is a notion that you cannot be a very good doctor unless you have a pretty strong, generalized exposure to medical issues and patient care, the kind of exposure you can only get from spending long hours with patients, and working with them intensely from admission to discharge. It's also a given that some of the most critical hours of a patient's care can happen at night. So medical training, in respect to these notions, requires residents to spend substantial time and substantial overnights in the hospital. Thanks to the 80 hour work week requirement, the hours are a lot less than historically, but they are still pretty substantial. If you think you are going to coast through a 40 hour a week, 9 to 5 residency, you are kidding yourself.

Even EM, which has largely moved to shift work and now has reduced hours, doesn't coddle the residents as much as it does the practitioners in its field. More and more programs have moved or are talking about moving to "advanced" status and requiring a prelim year. I agree with the prior poster that it has only happened at a handful of places so far, but for those reading in pre-allo, I wouldn't assume that this won't be the norm by the time you finish med school, the addition of the prelim year is increasing seen as desirable and a field like EM that is starting to become more competitive is very likely to want the "advanced" status other competitive fields tend to have. We are already seeing EM/IM combined residency folks held in very high esteem by some EM practices because of the better overall training they get simply from spending more hours in the game during their IM portion. Many places are coming to the realization that it's somewhat unrealistic to adequately train folks in fewer hours resulting from the move to shift work, so the reality is that if they had a hard year of residency training up front, this might be more achievable.
 
i wish more medical students and residents will contribute like this in the pre-allo forum.

It's topic driven. You ask questions about what medicine or residency is like, you will get folks in these fields to post. You ask questions about "which is more important to adcoms", it's just not that interesting to someone past the admissions process point.
 
Let's not confuse specialty with the residency. All of the "advanced" residencies, including rad onc, derm, rads, optho, PM&R etc require a prelim or transitional year as the initial residency year. So you would be doing a fairly typical intern year in any of these fields.

I remember a couple of path residents coming to talk to us in undergrad a few years ago, and they had a relatively cushy schedule... one even said she didn't expect her hours to change much following residency (worked 8 or 9 to 5, rarely on call). Not a clue as to whether or not this is normal, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
 
I remember a couple of path residents coming to talk to us in undergrad a few years ago, and they had a relatively cushy schedule... one even said she didn't expect her hours to change much following residency (worked 8 or 9 to 5, rarely on call). Not a clue as to whether or not this is normal, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I don't know much about path, but I kind of doubt that, and caution that hours can change drastically with the year of seniority. A third year path resident may have a much easier schedule than an intern. The learning curve is so steep in intern year that you can't really learn what you need in a 9 to 5 schedule. It's just simply not possible. You will see when you get there. But I'd also suggest that path is a field that is definitely not right for everyone, so I'd caution getting excited about the hours without actually considering the job itself. You will be spending a ton of hours doing, and reading about, whatever you go into. so you have to really like it. You can't focus on the perqs and miss out on what's actually important in picking a career -- whether it's something you would enjoy doing for the next 40 years.
 
I don't know much about path, but I kind of doubt that, and caution that hours can change drastically with the year of seniority. A third year path resident may have a much easier schedule than an intern. The learning curve is so steep in intern year that you can't really learn what you need in a 9 to 5 schedule. It's just simply not possible. You will see when you get there. But I'd also suggest that path is a field that is definitely not right for everyone, so I'd caution getting excited about the hours without actually considering the job itself. You will be spending a ton of hours doing, and reading about, whatever you go into. so you have to really like it. You can't focus on the perqs and miss out on what's actually important in picking a career -- whether it's something you would enjoy doing for the next 40 years.

I can't remember what year she was, but it's entirely possible that she was a 3rd or 4th year resident. Still, pathology is one of those weird fields... even if you do end up staying on call all night, you might not do much of anything just because your job is so dependent on the surgery schedule. If there aren't any emergency surgeries that night, you might not have anything to do.

I know you're probably talking generally, but I have absolutely no interest in going into pathology. I work in a lab, and our pathologists are great, and they see some really interesting stuff, but I have no desire to just deal with samples all day (with the occasional bone marrow aspiration). It's why I gave up a position in a medical technology internship to apply to medical school... I like the people interaction too much.
 
Even EM, which has largely moved to shift work and now has reduced hours, doesn't coddle the residents as much as it does the practitioners in its field. More and more programs have moved or are talking about moving to "advanced" status and requiring a prelim year. I agree with the prior poster that it has only happened at a handful of places so far, but for those reading in pre-allo, I wouldn't assume that this won't be the norm by the time you finish med school, the addition of the prelim year is increasing seen as desirable and a field like EM that is starting to become more competitive is very likely to want the "advanced" status other competitive fields tend to have. We are already seeing EM/IM combined residency folks held in very high esteem by some EM practices because of the better overall training they get simply from spending more hours in the game during their IM portion. Many places are coming to the realization that it's somewhat unrealistic to adequately train folks in fewer hours resulting from the move to shift work, so the reality is that if they had a hard year of residency training up front, this might be more achievable.


I do not know what Law2Doc's experience is with EM programs, but let me reiterate what I posted earlier if any of you are interested in the specialty. This information is repeated from the mouths of several EM residency program directors across the nation as they discussed the future of their programs. I presume that not much is changing with EM programs because they were minimally affected (relatively) by work hour restrictions when they were initiated.

It is RARE for an EM program to require a traditional medicine for surgery prelim year (only 5 of the 100+ programs are set up this way). Nearly all EM residencies, regardless of whether they are 3 years (~80%) or 4 years (~20%), do have a very general first year (surgery, OB, anesthesia, medicine ward, peds wards, etc.) mixed with a few months in the ED, but rarely is this an independent prelim year as suggested above.

Also, while there are a few programs that are considering increasing from 3 to 4 years, none of these programs are planning on adding a prelim year, instead they are adding a 4th year to create more time in the ED as well as for more administrative and elective time.
 
wat about neuro residencies (after intern year)?

anyone?
 
It's topic driven. You ask questions about what medicine or residency is like, you will get folks in these fields to post. You ask questions about "which is more important to adcoms", it's just not that interesting to someone past the admissions process point.

Could you please explain the difference between categorical, transitional and prelim. internship years?
 
I remember a couple of path residents coming to talk to us in undergrad a few years ago, and they had a relatively cushy schedule... one even said she didn't expect her hours to change much following residency (worked 8 or 9 to 5, rarely on call). Not a clue as to whether or not this is normal, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I'm a path resident and I work close to 80 hour weeks on my surg path months. All of the good programs are going to require you to work really hard on those months.

I will say that we have more relaxed months thrown in (autopsy, dermpath, cytopath) where we probably work about 50-55 hours. That being said, pathology residents need to learn the histopathology about every disease, needs to know about every orderable lab test and how to run every lab (chem, micro, heme, coag, blood bank), so the learning curve is steep and there is tons of reading that has to be done outside of work. Plus, you really do have to love it (thankfully I do!).
 
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