What is the consensus on Misdemeanor convictions and acceptance into medical school?

[SUH2160158]

I am sure this question has been asked many times, but I wanted to know if there's more accurate information on criminal convictions, and how they affect the admission process for entry into medical school. My convictions were a DUI, and an attempt to help illegal aliens elude from inspection by immigration officials. I went to prison for four months, and the initial charge was a felony on the second misdemeanor conviction. I do not have any felony convictions, or assaults, sexual offenses or anything like that. Both convictions happened in Arizona, so expungement is not a possibility. Anyone have a clear idea how much these two convictions could impact me, and whether or not pursuing medical school is still a viable option? I'd like to have as much information as possible moving forward, so I don't end up wasting three to four years working very hard for nothing. I understand the process is very competitive, and people without criminal records get denied every year, but I'm trying to look past that, and focus on out performing most people academically. Despite my intentions of doing that, I still have to be realistic moving forward with a criminal history. There is the possibility I might be able to get the convictions Set Aside in Arizona with an attorney down the road, but I'm not too sure on specifics of what that takes. Thanks for any assistance.

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[Aktak]

The good news is that working very hard for three or four years studying science and making yourself a better person is never a waste. The bad news is those don’t seem minor. The DUI maybe if it was a long time ago, but aiding a fugitive is a federal offense and violation of U.S.C. I’m sure you know this better than I do at this point. I’m not in any way “in the know” regarding adcom behavior, but I was involved in hiring in the past and it would be a serious red flag for me as it makes me think that you knowingly and intentionally conspired to break the law rather than having an “in the moment” lapse of judgement. Any time that someone has time to think and reflect, but still chooses to break the law, it makes me question the persons’ character.

Then again, I don’t know any details of your case. I mean, let’s say that illegal alien was my mom and she was suffering a serious health issue and would be abused by my dad in her home country - that sort of thing would change my calculus as the law isn’t always moral.

I can’t give you any real answers to your questions other than you have an enormous red flag to overcome. What are your reasons for pursuing medical practice and how long ago were the infractions?

 

[SUH2160158]

I agree that spending four or three years studying science is not a waste. What exactly do you mean by a violation of U.S.C.? I am not familiar as to what that is. I was expecting that having two misdemeanors on my criminal record was a red flag, but that doesn't necessarily help me in making a decision to pursue a career in medicine. I've always wanted to be a doctor, and I'm passionate about helping people are my reasons for pursuing medicine. Obviously, a job in medicine has a great salary, and high job security, so those are motivational incentives. I have a lot of different reasons for wanting to pursue a career as a MD. The DUI occurred nearly four years ago, and the other misdemeanor about two years ago.

The details of my case are frivolous, and I got set up, but I don't know relevant the details are because I'm already convicted. When you talk about an enormous red flag here, are you saying my chances are extremely low? Neither offense would be an issue in obtaining a license, correct? I've made mistakes in my past, and have made serious lifestyle changes, and personal changes in my behavior, and character. I cannot erase past mistakes, and I'd want medical schools to basically look past my mistakes, and give me a second chance.

What if everything else on my application is near perfect? High gpa, high MCAT, volunteer hours etc.? Do you think the probability of a medical school over looking my past mistakes is greater if I excel in everything that I can?

Look the question is simple. Is it possible to over come this red flag, and still get into medical school, or am I beating a dead horse? I don't see the point in starting down a path if I'm headed into darkness. I believe it is possible to get the convictions set aside, and maybe even the federal misdemeanor expunged because it's federal, and not state based. Although, I am unaware if a medical school will know about expunged crimes, or what their perspective is on expunged/set aside convictions are.

 

[deleted969405]

What exactly do you mean by a violation of U.S.C.? I am not familiar as to what that is.

United States Code. It is the collective laws of the nation.

I was expecting that having two misdemeanors on my criminal record was a red flag, but that doesn't necessarily help me in making a decision to pursue a career in medicine.

Let me help you to make a decision: don't pursue a career in medicine. Why? Not only is it already super competitive for applicants without any history, but it appears from your post that you (may?) have a felony (can you really spend 4 months in PRISON for a misdemeanor?). This could prevent you in the future from obtaining a medical license.

I've always wanted to be a doctor, and I'm passionate about helping people are my reasons for pursuing medicine. Obviously, a job in medicine has a great salary, and high job security, so those are motivational incentives. I have a lot of different reasons for wanting to pursue a career as a MD.

Not to be rude but that is everyones' reasons for a career in medicine. We are all "passionate" about it.

The details of my case are frivolous, and I got set up, but I don't know relevant the details are because I'm already convicted. When you talk about an enormous red flag here, are you saying my chances are extremely low?

No, realistically (please read that word again if you think I am being harsh) it is zero.

What if everything else on my application is near perfect? High gpa, high MCAT, volunteer hours etc.?

Easier said than done

Look the question is simple. Is it possible to over come this red flag, and still get into medical school, or am I beating a dead horse?

No, your chances are very low. I would seriously consider another career option. Even if you get into medical school (lets assume carribean here because your chances at US MD/DO are approx 0), you still have the problem of getting a medical license depending on what state you want to practice in. That's a huge financial risk, as well as a waste of precious time if you decide to go down a career in medicine. I would consider other career options. Heck, even being an EMT, you are required to get background checks, so I'd probably stick to a career outside of medicine? That's just me though

 

[SUH2160158]

United States Code. It is the collective laws of the nation.

Let me help you to make a decision: don't pursue a career in medicine. Why? Not only is it already super competitive for applicants without any history, but it appears from your post that you (may?) have a felony (can you really spend 4 months in PRISON for a misdemeanor?). This could prevent you in the future from obtaining a medical license.

Not to be rude but that is everyones' reasons for a career in medicine. We are all "passionate" about it.

No, realistically (please read that word again if you think I am being harsh) it is zero.

Easier said than done

No, your chances are very low. I would seriously consider another career option. Even if you get into medical school (lets assume carribean here because your chances at US MD/DO are approx 0), you still have the problem of getting a medical license depending on what state you want to practice in. That's a huge financial risk, as well as a waste of precious time. I would consider other career options. Heck, even being an EMT, you are required to get background checks, so I'd probably stick to a career outside of medicine? That's just me though

I am absolutely positive that I do not have a felony conviction, so I don't know where you are getting that spending time in prison automatically correlates to a felony because that is just not true. Have there not been situations where people with misdemeanors were accepted into medical schools? I'm not inclined to take your advice just yet because you assume I'm a felon, and I know for a fact that I was not convicted of any felony offense. Also, you don't seem to have any input regarding setting aside, or expunging the convictions. and whether that could positively impact chances of acceptance. How much knowledge do you actually have on this topic? I mean, are you just trying to shoot me down, or are you actually providing insight based on the experiences of other people in similar situations that have tried to get into medical school?

 

[deleted969405]

I am absolutely positive that I do not have a felony conviction, so I don't know where you are getting that spending time in prison automatically correlates to a felony because that is just not true. Have there not been situations where people with misdemeanors were accepted into medical schools? I'm not inclined to take your advice just yet because you assume I'm a felon, and I know for a fact that I was not convicted of any felony offense. Also, you don't seem to have any input regarding setting aside, or expunging the convictions. and whether that could positively impact chances of acceptance. How much knowledge do you actually have on this topic? I mean, are you just trying to shoot me down, or are you actually providing insight based on the experiences of other people in similar situations that have tried to get into medical school?

I'm basing the felony assumption on your initial post where you state

I went to prison for four months, and the initial charge was a felony on the second misdemeanor conviction

And I'm basing my suggesting that you pursue a different career based on first hand experience as a "stellar" applicant on the rigor of this application process and as an individual who has conducted interviews in the past for different positions. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine. You are free to seek input from others on this forum.

EDIT: and the input from an attending physician/adcom (admissions committee member) of a medical school is (drum roll please)........ your chances are realistically 0

 

[Tenk]

I am absolutely positive that I do not have a felony conviction, so I don't know where you are getting that spending time in prison automatically correlates to a felony because that is just not true. Have there not been situations where people with misdemeanors were accepted into medical schools? I'm not inclined to take your advice just yet because you assume I'm a felon, and I know for a fact that I was not convicted of any felony offense. Also, you don't seem to have any input regarding setting aside, or expunging the convictions. and whether that could positively impact chances of acceptance. How much knowledge do you actually have on this topic? I mean, are you just trying to shoot me down, or are you actually providing insight based on the experiences of other people in similar situations that have tried to get into medical school?

It’s pretty much 0%. Best to move on to another career.

 

[SUH2160158]

You can go to jail or prison for misdemeanor offenses. Again, going to prison does not mean you have been convicted of a felony from the legal scheme of things. I appreciate your input, and advice. I'll continue to seek the opinions of other people until I'm convinced one way or the other. If I was a felon convict then everything your saying makes perfect sense, but the thing is I'm not a felon. What about expungement regarding the federal misdemeanor conviction? How about how much time that has passed since the convictions? I'm just shocked to hear that misdemeanor convictions alone would weed you out entirely of ever becoming a medical doctor in America.

I have a hard time believing that a near perfect application wouldn't result in a school looking past at a couple mistakes in someones life, and giving them a second chance. That's only assuming I had a near perfect application. Is the application process into medical school that unforgiving? Even for low tier medical schools?

 

[Lampy]

I definitely don’t know what I’m talking about, but I have seen posts in the past addressing misdemeanors (I think just DUIs though) that could be sliiiightly mitigated by dedicated service and intense personal growth. I think the examples were like teaching in an underserved, urban school or military service for a few years.

 

[deleted969405]

You can go to jail or prison for misdemeanor offenses. Again, going to prison does not mean you have been convicted of a felony from the legal scheme of things. I appreciate your input, and advice. I'll continue to seek the opinions of other people until I'm convinced one way or the other. If I was a felon convict then everything your saying makes perfect sense, but the thing is I'm not a felon. What about expungement regarding the federal misdemeanor conviction? How about how much time that has passed since the convictions? I'm just shocked to hear that misdemeanor convictions alone would weed you out entirely of ever becoming a medical doctor in America.

OK, I apologize for misinterpreting. But I still stand by my statement because it is just so competitive and you don't have an isolated incident. Instead, you have two incidents. Whereas one charge may be forgivable with time (talking about the DUI, the aiding a fugitive seems more serious), good grades/MCAT, service, etc., you have two charges that are very serious. With medical schools becoming more and more competitive each and every year (MD/DO), I think it would be very, very difficult for you to even get an interview, let alone an acceptance at a medical school.

 

[SUH2160158]

OK, I apologize for misinterpreting. But I still stand by my statement because it is just so competitive and you don't have an isolated incident. Instead, you have two incidents. Whereas one charge may be forgivable with time (talking about the DUI, the aiding a fugitive seems more serious), good grades/MCAT, service, etc., you have two charges that are very serious. With medical schools becoming more and more competitive each and every year (MD/DO), I think it would be very, very difficult for you to even get an interview, let alone an acceptance at a medical school.

Appreciate the reply! Do you know if expunging the crimes would make any difference? I realize that I'm probably facing a very very challenging situation with two misdemeanors, and that the probability was already lower from the start, but I'm just shocked to hear that it sounds like it's impossible. Do people with high GPA's and high MCATS get turned down by medical schools?

 

[deleted969405]

Appreciate the reply! Do you know if expunging the crimes would make any difference? I realize that I'm probably facing a very very challenging situation with two misdemeanors, and that the probability was already lower from the start, but I'm just shocked to hear that it sounds like it's impossible. Do people with high GPA's and high MCATS get turned down by medical schools?

I think you still have to report them on AMCAS because you were convicted? I'm not sure, I would probably tag gonnif and ask him. But if you were found guilty and already paid the consequence (prison time) I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get your convictions expunged at this time.

And yes, aside from yield protection, many applicants with high MCAT, GPA, and EC get rejected. This is a very expensive, long, and competitive process.

 

[SUH2160158]

Expungement occurs after you have been convicted, and paid the consequence to your actions. I appreciate your replies regarding my situation.

 

[deleted969405]

Expungement occurs after you have been convicted, and paid the consequence to your actions. I appreciate your replies regarding my situation greatly. You seem to not know much about the legal system, but speak as if you do.

Yeah maybe because I am not planning on being a lawyer. Instead, I will be a doctor after working my butt off the last 4 years, not making any idiotic decisions like driving drunk, and getting 3 A to US MD schools this early on. You seem to be looking for false hope and looking for ways to discredit others who give their opinion. Again, I will reiterate: I base my opinion solely on the fact that this process is very competitive and that you have 2 convicted misdemeanors which you admit to in your initial post which I have quoted (so at this point it is unethical for you to have them expunged because you admit to having committed those illegal acts). So, I may not know much about the legal system, but I do know I'm going to be a doctor. With that being said, good luck on your journey

 

[SUH2160158]

I didn't post this thread with the idea of wanting some false hope of becoming a medical doctor. I posted this thread with the intention of working harder than everyone else, and being optimistic that second chances could be given to those that have made some mistakes in their life. I realize the medical school application process is grueling, and competitive, and I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of my convictions either. Again, I appreciate your replies, and opinion. I do not want to go back and forth regarding this. Thank you for your input.

 

[deleted962973]

I didn't post this thread with the idea of wanting some false hope of becoming a medical doctor. I posted this thread with the intention of working harder than everyone else, and being optimistic that second chances could be given to those that have made some mistakes in their life. I realize the medical school application process is grueling, and competitive, and I'm not trying to undermine the seriousness of my convictions either. Again, I appreciate your replies, and opinion. I do not want to go back and forth regarding this. Thank you for your input.

They aren’t saying anything unreasonable. Even a DUI can be terminal to a med school app and you have an additional charge on top of it. You’ve also been advised by an actual physician to pursue a different path. Why did you come here if you didn’t want to hear any opinions that tell you things you don’t like?

 

[SUH2160158]

I knew it was going to be an uphill battle regarding the possibility of getting into a medical school before I posted, but I'm just shocked to hear people think it'll be impossible with a couple of misdemeanor convictions that are non-sexual, non-assault, non-theft based. I'm not undermining the seriousness of any criminal offense, but some misdemeanors are obviously worse than others. I mean I knew for a fact that for a felony it's a definite impossibility, but I had more optimism that forgiveness for misdemeanor offenses seemed to be more plausible. I've also read around the forums from people who've asked similar questions, and the responses seem to a lot different. As of right now, I'm not sure whether to give up the pursuance, or to try to do everything I can to gain entry.

 

[deleted962973]

I'm not undermining the seriousness of any criminal offense

a couple of misdemeanor convictions that are non-sexual, non-assault, non-theft based.

But that’s exactly what you’re doing. And I’m not sure why you arbitrarily decided that these are the only three categories of convictions that matter. It’s not as though your crimes didn’t have the potential to hurt people. I’d regard a DUI as way worse than shoplifting some potato chips from a grocery store. It’s also essential that you show true remorse for your actions, and your conduct in this thread hasn’t really demonstrated that. Finally, it’s not that easy to have a perfect GPA and MCAT, and yes, even those with perfect stats and spotless records get turned away each year. It doesn’t seem worthwhile pursuing medicine given the headache you’ll constantly have to deal with when it comes to background checks for admission, licensing, etc.

 

[SUH2160158]

I didn't write this post with intent to show remorse for my actions. My only intention was to explore the possibility of being admitted to school with misdemeanor offenses on my background check. . Does that mean I am not remorseful for what I've done? Of course I am, and I wish I could change the past, but I'm stuck with what I've done. I agree with you on the seriousness of a DUI, and maybe you're right regarding the headaches of background checks. I'm just surprised that I wouldn't even be given the opportunity to interview if everything else on my application looked amazing.

 

[Moko]

I'm just surprised that I wouldn't even be given the opportunity to interview if everything else on my application looked amazing.

Schools only interview people who are competitive for an acceptance post-interview and can become licensed to practice after training; otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time. Applicants are given the opportunity to explain any misdemeanors and/or felonies on AMCAS. A misdemeanor is by no means an automatic rejection. Certain offenses are more easily forgiven than others (e.g possession of marijuana, a remote history of a speeding ticket, etc). Obviously none of us here know the circumstances surrounding your arrest, nor should you feel the need to reveal them. However, a four month prison sentence is not something that can be easily overlooked or explained away, except maybe if you are a modern day MLK or Dalai Lama. When there are countless other high-stats applicants with compelling stories, ECs, etc, schools have almost no reason to consider those who were previously incarcerated. There's simply too much risk involved. Unless you are okay with gambling against these stacked odds, I would recommend exploring alternative career paths that allow you to help others.

 

[deleted1009115]

N=1, but I know an MD who got a DUI a few years before matriculating to medical school. He was obviously able to make it work in the end, but his conviction was a barrier every step of the way (he had to apply to medical school more than once, licensing was difficult and he had to reveal his DUI to his boss, etc).

With two convictions, I can only imagine that your path would be even more difficult. I agree with what Moko said above, the odds are definitely stacked against you. In the end though, you need to decide if the chance to be a doctor is worth the time and money for you to pursue this path. If you don’t apply, the chances are certainly 0%.

 

[Cornfed101]

You can definitely get this expunged, if that is a possibility, and you would not be required to list that on the primary application, but many secondaries ask you to disclose even expunged convictions. The problem, as @Moko pointed out, is not that you won't get into medical school. It is that you will likely be barred from practicing. The criminal checks at that point can view expunged convictions.

It would be in your best interest to seek legal advice on this complicated situation from a lawyer who specializes in professional licensing and criminal offenses.

 

[gonnif]

You can definitely get this expunged, if that is a possibility, and you would not be required to list that on the primary application, but many secondaries ask you to disclose even expunged convictions. The problem, as @Moko pointed out, is not that you won't get into medical school. It is that you will likely be barred from practicing. The criminal checks at that point can view expunged convictions.

It would be in your best interest to seek legal advice on this complicated situation from a lawyer who specializes in professional licensing and criminal offenses.

Arizona does not allow courts to expunge or seal a criminal record. It uses a process to vacate or "set aside" a conviction.

 

[Cornfed101]

Arizona does not allow courts to expunge or seal a criminal record. It uses a process to vacate or "set aside" a conviction.

Hence my disclaimer, "if that is a possibility." Sounds like it isn't! OP if you really want to give this a shot, then talk to a lawyer. Don't waste any more time preparing for medical school until you have done that.

 

[gonnif]

The details of my case are frivolous, and I got set up, but I don't know relevant the details are because I'm already convicted. When you talk about an enormous red flag here, are you saying my chances are extremely low? Neither offense would be an issue in obtaining a license, correct? I've made mistakes in my past, and have made serious lifestyle changes, and personal changes in my behavior, and character. I cannot erase past mistakes, and I'd want medical schools to basically look past my mistakes, and give me a second chance.

What if everything else on my application is near perfect? High gpa, high MCAT, volunteer hours etc.? Do you think the probability of a medical school over looking my past mistakes is greater if I excel in everything that I can?

You have this backwards. Your MCAT/GPA are wholly irrelevant to this issue but the details of your case are. As likely the only person on this board who has actually worked directly with felon-convicted individuals in getting any sort of professional license, there is a Catch-22. Medical schools are extremely hesitant to admit anyone who may have issues in getting a license. Yet, medical boards are likely to grant licenses to anyone who successfully completes medical school.

Perhaps I missed this but how old were you when you were convicted?

 

[Goro]

I am sure this question has been asked many times, but I wanted to know if there's more accurate information on criminal convictions, and how they affect the admission process for entry into medical school. My convictions were a DUI, and an attempt to help illegal aliens elude from inspection by immigration officials. I went to prison for four months, and the initial charge was a felony on the second misdemeanor conviction. I do not have any felony convictions, or assaults, sexual offenses or anything like that. Both convictions happened in Arizona, so expungement is not a possibility. Anyone have a clear idea how much these two convictions could impact me, and whether or not pursuing medical school is still a viable option? I'd like to have as much information as possible moving forward, so I don't end up wasting three to four years working very hard for nothing. I understand the process is very competitive, and people without criminal records get denied every year, but I'm trying to look past that, and focus on out performing most people academically. Despite my intentions of doing that, I still have to be realistic moving forward with a criminal history. There is the possibility I might be able to get the convictions Set Aside in Arizona with an attorney down the road, but I'm not too sure on specifics of what that takes. Thanks for any assistance.

I can't sugar coat this; your medical career is over.

 

[gonnif]

I can't sugar coat this; your medical career is over.

I will disagree on making a conclusion. I do not know enough of the details for this OP case to render an opinion. I have no idea of circumstances, age, and the subsequent narrative can be crafted for this issue. I do not know enough of his/her background, life story, SES, and any other factors that could be woven in. While I do agree it is a long shot, I do not rule it out. I have spent that last two decades helping the nontrads, reapplicants, and problem candidates getting into medical school, including those that are considered hopeless.

 

[notretired]

Instead, I will be a doctor after working my butt off the last 4 years, not making any idiotic decisions like driving drunk, and getting 3 A to US MD schools this early on.

I strongly suggest you humble yourself for the sake of your future patients and colleagues.

 

[Goro]

The details of my case are frivolous, and I got set up,

I'm just shocked to hear that misdemeanor convictions alone would weed you out entirely of ever becoming a medical doctor in America.

I have a hard time believing that a near perfect application wouldn't result in a school looking past at a couple mistakes in someones life, and giving them a second chance. Is the application process into medical school that unforgiving? Even for low tier medical schools?

This is one of those rare times I disagree with my learned colleague gonnif.

OP, here are the problems you face:

Med school admissions is a seller's market. They can afford to take a pass on you.

You're dealing with an Adcom mindset of "why should we take a risk on this person when we have so many other qualified applicants who didn't get themselves into so much trouble?" AND

"Is this the kind of person we want in our Class?"

The bolded text alone would get you rejected at my school. You have to own your transgressions.

 

[candbgirl]

[QUOTE="SUH2160158, post: 21316149, member: 1014513]...Do people with high GPA's and high MCATS get turned down by medical schools?
[/QUOTE]

Yes every year people with stellar applications get rejected. Only around 40 percent of applicants get accepted each cycle. Twenty percent get one acceptance and around twenty percent get two or more. That means that around 60 percent are rejected each cycle including applicants with near perfect applications.
You can certainly spend the next several years preparing to apply but as many ADCOMS on SDN say “ always have a plan B”!

 

[Engrailed]

I am just a med school applicant and do not know all the ins and outs of criminal records etc in med school admissions but from reading the comments above, the costs (time, energy, hope) far outweigh potential benefits. There are mountains you will have to climb to get to the MD.

With that said, (and it may take some extraordinary measures + a dose of good luck)... and you may have to go to a Caribbean school for the MD (and if you work hard, it is not a death knell in terms of being a board certified physician in the US. My former PCP actually went to a Caribbean school and I thought he was amazing! ) ... I think if you truly want to be an MD, no one is stopping you from doing so.

You only live once. I dont know how the circumstances of your case will affect your chances (if any), BUT, if you are set on doing this, I think you should go for it wholeheartedly, ask for advice along the way from people you trust, and ALWAYS have a Plan B (a career where your science knowledge and clinical volunteering etc would still be useful. There are tons of alternatives).

I wish the best for you OP.

 

[SUH2160158]

I've already scrolled through the forums and read stories of people with criminal misdemeanor convictions who were admitted into medical school, so if it was possible for them then why could it not be possible for me? I find it hard to believe that people with near perfect applications are rejected every year as a good argument for saying that it's not possible. If someone with a DUI got into medical school, and 30,000 people are rejected every year then why did he get in at all? 60% of all applicants get rejected, but does anyone really know why? There have been people with criminal convictions who have successfully got into medical school. We can look at this as a fact, and it's hard to argue a fact. I'll say that the fact that I have two on my record is clearly a red flag, and not a good thing. These misdemeanors convictions are the only thing that could possibly derail any hope of becoming a medical doctor, but they are not felony convictions, so I'm not sure how much impact they would have on being able to obtain a license in a state, and again I don't know if anything like time since the conviction, whether the conviction is expunged or set aside has any positive impact on the process at all.

As he says, you only live once, so I mean he's right. Why not try to do everything right, and see where it takes me? What do I really have to lose? Could I not always transition my science bachelors into a masters, or possibly enter another form of graduate schooling. It's important to remember that I don't need acceptance into 15 medical schools, but just one school. I need one person to give me an opportunity, or believe in redemption. A lot of people say it's hopeless, and one or two here say there is some hope, so I'm not entirely ready to give up the pursuit of a medical career just yet. A lot of time will have passed since my convictions happened before I apply, and I can consult a lawyer to see what legal options exist in dealing with these convictions , if any at all.

The main hurdle for me is contemplating majoring in something science, and not getting into medical school. Figuring out what to do with the bachelors would have to be a plan B, or possibly a foreign medical school. Even if I go to a foreign medical school, and take the USLME, I'd still have to deal with background checks for matching residencies, correct? So it seems very challenging. Do foreign medical school graduates have much say in their chosen specialty? Just curious.

Thank you for all the replies and input. This has been a mostly positive experience for me so far, and value the opinion of everyone here.

 

[differentiating]

The second misdemeanor probably wouldn’t be a huge deal on its own, especially at a more liberal school, unless it directly impacted licensing. However, the DUI on top of it makes one consider that this is a pattern of reckless behavior. The deck is definitely stacked against you.

A foreign medical school wouldn’t solve the issue of you being unlikely to practice or be licensed as a physician, so unless you plan on moving to that country, it’s not the best backup plan.

 

[candbgirl]

To answer a couple of your questions. Sixty percent don’t get in because there are either better applicants or there aren’t enough seats. And yes you’d have to do background checks for residency and liscensing. And frankly foreign/off shore med schools set up a full range of other issues. And it’s way more than 30k that are rejected every year.

 

[keolu hills]

Even if you are a summa cum laude applicant with a sky high MCAT score, they want to be sure that they are admitting someone who has INTEGRITY.

It might even be hard to just get a job.

 

[notretired]

I've already scrolled through the forums and read stories of people with criminal misdemeanor convictions who were admitted into medical school, so if it was possible for them then why could it not be possible for me? I find it hard to believe that people with near perfect applications are rejected every year as a good argument for saying that it's not possible. If someone with a DUI got into medical school, and 30,000 people are rejected every year then why did he get in at all? 60% of all applicants get rejected, but does anyone really know why? There have been people with criminal convictions who have successfully got into medical school. We can look at this as a fact, and it's hard to argue a fact. I'll say that the fact that I have two on my record is clearly a red flag, and not a good thing. These misdemeanors convictions are the only thing that could possibly derail any hope of becoming a medical doctor, but they are not felony convictions, so I'm not sure how much impact they would have on being able to obtain a license in a state, and again I don't know if anything like time since the conviction, whether the conviction is expunged or set aside has any positive impact on the process at all.

As he says, you only live once, so I mean he's right. Why not try to do everything right, and see where it takes me? What do I really have to lose? Could I not always transition my science bachelors into a masters, or possibly enter another form of graduate schooling. It's important to remember that I don't need acceptance into 15 medical schools, but just one school. I need one person to give me an opportunity, or believe in redemption. A lot of people say it's hopeless, and one or two here say there is some hope, so I'm not entirely ready to give up the pursuit of a medical career just yet. A lot of time will have passed since my convictions happened before I apply, and I can consult a lawyer to see what legal options exist in dealing with these convictions , if any at all.

The main hurdle for me is contemplating majoring in something science, and not getting into medical school. Figuring out what to do with the bachelors would have to be a plan B, or possibly a foreign medical school. Even if I go to a foreign medical school, and take the USLME, I'd still have to deal with background checks for matching residencies, correct? So it seems very challenging. Do foreign medical school graduates have much say in their chosen specialty? Just curious.

Thank you for all the replies and input. This has been a mostly positive experience for me so far, and value the opinion of everyone here.

How old were you when you were charged with the misdemeanors? If you were young, like 16-18, and you follow that up with 4 years of exceptional work in the classroom - demonstrating you are on a different path in life, I don't think your situation is futile. Also strongly recommend majoring in something that will give you good job prospects (and take the prereqs concurrently). Having a solid fallback career removes a lot of the stress of the application process.

 

[kingdomheart]

What if OP redeemed himself by lets say joining the army?

 

[SUH2160158]

How old were you when you were charged with the misdemeanors? If you were young, like 16-18, and you follow that up with 4 years of exceptional work in the classroom - demonstrating you are on a different path in life, I don't think your situation is futile. Also strongly recommend majoring in something that will give you good job prospects (and take the prereqs concurrently). Having a solid fallback career removes a lot of the stress of the application process.

If I pursue a pre-med path, it'll be around 5-8 years since both convictions. My whole intent going into this was showing I turned my life around, and have moved on from my past mistakes. I'm relying upon the idea that people can change for the better, and should be given second chances if they are worthy, but that's only my perspective on life. Obviously, I don't want to burn myself out trying to get into medical school, or stress myself out to insanity in the process. Having a career fallback is an excellent idea, and a plan B or even a plan C is probably a very intelligent thing to do.

Does anyone know if dental school, pharmacy school, PA school, nurse practitioner school are going to have the same challenges in getting acceptance? I know it's off topic, but I'm exploring plan B/C , and still open to not even pursuing the path to an MD If the barriers I face are too great to overcome.

 

[keolu hills]

What if OP redeemed himself by lets say joining the army?

You mean if the OP gets in. I doubt they will take someone that had been trying to hide a fujitive.

 

[keolu hills]

If I pursue a pre-med path, it'll be around 5-8 years since both convictions. My whole intent going into this was showing I turned my life around, and have moved on from my past mistakes. I'm relying upon the idea that people can change for the better, and should be given second chances if they are worthy, but that's only my perspective on life. Obviously, I don't want to burn myself out trying to get into medical school, or stress myself out to insanity in the process. Having a career fallback is an excellent idea, and a plan B or even a plan C is probably a very intelligent thing to do.

Does anyone know if dental school, pharmacy school, PA school, nurse practitioner school are going to have the same challenges in getting acceptance? I know it's off topic, but I'm exploring plan B/C , and still open to not even pursuing the path to an MD If the barriers I face are too great to overcome.

You are going to face the same problem. Of course, these programs want to be sure that they are admitting someone with integrity.

 

[SUH2160158]

Even if you are a summa cum laude applicant with a sky high MCAT score, they want to be sure that they are admitting someone who has INTEGRITY.

It might even be hard to just get a job.

Being convicted of a crime automatically means you have no integrity the rest of your life? I mean I understand how seriousness any criminal act is, and it should never be undermined, but the idea that we should be so unforgiving of people who make mistakes in their life is ridiculous to me. People do change, and people make mistakes. If I turned my life around, and did everything right, it amazes me that the possibility of being forgiven exists at the same level as if I did nothing. That seems to be the consensus from everything I've read so far. Basically, I've nailed the coffin into the ground by being convicted, and all the positive change in the world can bring no redemption.

 

[keolu hills]

Being convicted of a crime automatically means you have no integrity the rest of your life? I mean I understand how seriousness any criminal act is, and it should never be undermined, but the idea that we should be so unforgiving of people who make mistakes in their life is ridiculous to me. People do change, and people make mistakes. If I turned my life around, and did everything right, it amazes me that the possibility of being forgiven exists at the same level as if I did nothing. That seems to be the consensus from everything I've read so far. Basically, I've nailed the coffin into the ground by being convicted, and all the positive change in the world can bring no redemption.

Med schools want to make SURE that you have integrity. So, it would be much much harder for you to get in because of your second office. And doing a bunch of volunteer work and letting time pass doesn't show that you have changed. Again, I am saying this because your second offense is very serious.

You asked for feedback, and you don't like what you are hearing. But, an adcom member on this site had said that you have about a 0 chance of getting in. I wouldn't take that with a grain of salt.

If you are not convinced, call a medical school anonymously and speak with someone on the admissions committee.

 

[SUH2160158]

Med schools want to make SURE that you have integrity. So, it would be much much harder for you to get in because of your second office. And doing a bunch of volunteer work and letting time pass doesn't show that you have changed. Again, I am saying this because your second offense is very serious.

You asked for feedback, and you don't like what you are hearing. But, an adcom member on this site had said that you have about a 0 chance of getting in. I wouldn't take that with a grain of salt.

If you are not convinced, call a medical school anonymously and speak with someone on the admissions committee.

Would it be possible to speak to someone on an admissions committee at a medical school? I suppose if there are adcoms posting in this thread then there is no difference, right? It's not that I don't like what I'm being told, but of course, who would like being told you're not going to get a second chance to redeem yourself from past mistakes. It's more so, I'm just amazed that the opportunity to correct a couple past mistakes is non-existent.

 

[Dr. Faust]

There are far too many "ifs" right now to give any positive advice regarding a medical school II/Acceptance. "If" a high MCAT score is achieved, "if" a high GPA is obtained, "if" beyond excellent ECs are completed. As of now, it may be easier to win the lottery than to predict getting into medical school.

"If you want to climb Mount Everest, start training now. Sitting on the couch while drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, and watching others climb on the Discovery channel sure ain't gonna get you to the top."

 

[SUH2160158]

There are far too many "ifs" right now to give any positive advice regarding a medical school II/Acceptance. "If" a high MCAT score is achieved, "if" a high GPA is obtained, "if" beyond excellent ECs are completed. As of now, it may be easier to win the lottery than to predict getting into medical school.

"If you want to climb Mount Everest, start training now. Sitting on the couch while drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, and watching others climb on the Discovery channel sure ain't gonna get you to the top."

The purpose of my thread was to decide if pursuing the path was viable given two misdemeanor convictions on my criminal record. The ifs are very important here because they explore the possibility. What's the point of working extremely hard for three to four years trying to get into medical school if I am doomed from the start? I'm exploring the "ifs" to find out whether or not there is any light of hope of getting into a medical school with the misdemeanors I have been convicted of.

 

[DokterMom]

I've already scrolled through the forums and read stories of people with criminal misdemeanor convictions who were admitted into medical school, so if it was possible for them then why could it not be possible for me? I find it hard to believe that people with near perfect applications are rejected every year as a good argument for saying that it's not possible. If someone with a DUI got into medical school, and 30,000 people are rejected every year then why did he get in at all? 60% of all applicants get rejected, but does anyone really know why? There have been people with criminal convictions who have successfully got into medical school. We can look at this as a fact, and it's hard to argue a fact. I'll say that the fact that I have two on my record is clearly a red flag, and not a good thing. These misdemeanors convictions are the only thing that could possibly derail any hope of becoming a medical doctor, but they are not felony convictions, so I'm not sure how much impact they would have on being able to obtain a license in a state, and again I don't know if anything like time since the conviction, whether the conviction is expunged or set aside has any positive impact on the process at all.

As he says, you only live once, so I mean he's right. Why not try to do everything right, and see where it takes me? What do I really have to lose? Could I not always transition my science bachelors into a masters, or possibly enter another form of graduate schooling. It's important to remember that I don't need acceptance into 15 medical schools, but just one school. I need one person to give me an opportunity, or believe in redemption. A lot of people say it's hopeless, and one or two here say there is some hope, so I'm not entirely ready to give up the pursuit of a medical career just yet. A lot of time will have passed since my convictions happened before I apply, and I can consult a lawyer to see what legal options exist in dealing with these convictions , if any at all.

The main hurdle for me is contemplating majoring in something science, and not getting into medical school. Figuring out what to do with the bachelors would have to be a plan B, or possibly a foreign medical school. Even if I go to a foreign medical school, and take the USLME, I'd still have to deal with background checks for matching residencies, correct? So it seems very challenging. Do foreign medical school graduates have much say in their chosen specialty? Just curious.

Thank you for all the replies and input. This has been a mostly positive experience for me so far, and value the opinion of everyone here.

Couple of things --

1. You don't have to major in science to go on to medical school; you just need to take the prerequisites. With that in mind, major in what you would major in if you knew you could never become a physician (Plan B), but also take the prerequisites for Plan A. If you do well academically, continue to keep one foot in each camp while your situation evolves.
2. Your legal situation matters. Do what you can to get your charges vacated and absolutely positively, no more run-ins with the law. Your DUI will be old. Own it, and plead young and stupid.
3. Your "helping an alien" charge is going to be very subject to interpretation though, and IMO, dependent on the particular circumstances. If you were smuggling aliens over the border for cash, you're dead in the water. If you distracted an ICE agent for a few moments so your cousin could sneak in to visit your ailing grandma one last time, you may find some sympathy. It's Arizona and the Trump era after all. History may view things differently, and only time will tell. Take a good honest look at the circumstances. What you did and why. What they will say you did and why. No "setup" story, because even if true, it still blames them for enforcing the law rather than you for breaking it. (Why'd they set you up anyway unless it was more than a one-time thing?) Be prepared to have your story verified, so do not lie.
4. Most importantly, if a school decides to take a chance on you, it won't be because of your stellar academic achievements and stratospheric MCAT. Don't get me wrong - you'll need to be solid academically. But if they decide to take a chance on you, it will be because you have proved to them that you are dedicated to helping others less fortunate than yourself. You will need to find a way to demonstrate your commitment -- something long-lived, something non-glamorous, and above all, something legal. You'll also need to show that you can follow the rules -- even the ones you disagree with.

Bottom line, you're a high-risk candidate. Right now, you're the one taking all the risk by committing to medicine. Mitigate your risk by choosing a path that's versatile. Four or five years down the road, that risk will be on AdComs. Mitigate their risk by demonstrating your dedication, your wisdom, and your self-control. I'd be inclined to take a chance on you if you were able to do that.

Good luck to you.

 

[LizzyM]

Did you go to prison for the DUI or for the aliens thing? I do believe that you may get a boost for helping people dealing with unjust law enforcement rather than having it seen as a negative (I know someone who served time in jail as a freedom rider, went on to college and medical school and is now at the end of a successful 40+ year career-- I think you have gotten mixed up in the civil rights issue of our current times).

How old were you with the DUI and how old were you with the alien situation?

 

[Dr. Faust]

The purpose of my thread was to decide if pursuing the path was viable given two misdemeanor convictions on my criminal record. The ifs are very important here because they explore the possibility. What's the point of working extremely hard for three to four years trying to get into medical school if I am doomed from the start? I'm exploring the "ifs" to find out whether or not there is any light of hope of getting into a medical school with the misdemeanors I have been convicted of.

Only you can answer "what's the point." Many people do everything perfectly and never get into medical school. There always will be a risk, and your risk is much higher than others. You can agree/argue/disagree with every post on here but in the end you will have to make a decision. Everyone loves an underdog story, but the fact of the matter is most of the dogs remain in the pound.

 

[SUH2160158]

Couple of things --

1. You don't have to major in science to go on to medical school; you just need to take the prerequisites. With that in mind, major in what you would major in if you knew you could never become a physician (Plan B), but also take the prerequisites for Plan A. If you do well academically, continue to keep one foot in each camp while your situation evolves.
2. Your legal situation matters. Do what you can to get your charges vacated and absolutely positively, no more run-ins with the law. Your DUI will be old. Own it, and plead young and stupid.
3. Your "helping an alien" charge is going to be very subject to interpretation though, and IMO, dependent on the particular circumstances. If you were smuggling aliens over the border for cash, you're dead in the water. If you distracted an ICE agent for a few moments so your cousin could sneak in to visit your ailing grandma one last time, you may find some sympathy. It's Arizona and the Trump era after all. History may view things differently, and only time will tell. Take a good honest look at the circumstances. What you did and why. What they will say you did and why. No "setup" story, because even if true, it still blames them for enforcing the law rather than you for breaking it. (Why'd they set you up anyway unless it was more than a one-time thing?) Be prepared to have your story verified, so do not lie.
4. Most importantly, if a school decides to take a chance on you, it won't be because of your stellar academic achievements and stratospheric MCAT. Don't get me wrong - you'll need to be solid academically. But if they decide to take a chance on you, it will be because you have proved to them that you are dedicated to helping others less fortunate than yourself. You will need to find a way to demonstrate your commitment -- something long-lived, something non-glamorous, and above all, something legal. You'll also need to show that you can follow the rules -- even the ones you disagree with.

Bottom line, you're a high-risk candidate. Right now, you're the one taking all the risk by committing to medicine. Mitigate your risk by choosing a path that's versatile. Four or five years down the road, that risk will be on AdComs. Mitigate their risk by demonstrating your dedication, your wisdom, and your self-control. I'd be inclined to take a chance on you if you were able to do that.

Good luck to you.

You've probably given some of the best advice here so far, so I thank you for your input. From what it sounds like, the consensus is that I'm almost hopeless in terms of getting into a medical school, but that it's not completely impossible. If the admissions committee believes I'm worthy of redemption given my mistakes then I may get in, but if not I'm screwed. So going with plan A and B at the same time is probably my best bet. I'm going to try to major in something like biomedical engineering, or any science related field that has a great job outlook. As far as proving my commitment, do you have any recommendations on how I would go about doing that? What I mean is that, are you recommending I volunteer for something specific, or that my extra circulars are tailored differently? How exactly would I define my commitment to the legal system on my application? Sorry, I'm just not following you the greatest as to what I can do to improve my odds legally.

From a legal perspective, would having a crime set aside, or expunged make any difference on a medical school application? Would an adcom committee look at the criminal act in the same way? I've read that even expunged or set aside crimes have to be reported eventually, so I'm just curious as to whether or not this would help in any shape or form.

 

[SUH2160158]

Only you can answer "what's the point." Many people do everything perfectly and never get into medical school. There always will be a risk, and your risk is much higher than others. You can agree/argue/disagree with every post on here but in the end you will have to make a decision. Everyone loves an underdog story, but the fact of the matter is most of the dogs remain in the pound.

If they did everything perfectly then you're saying there's no rhyme or reason why they never get into medical school? Clearly, they didn't do everything perfect if they never get in. Unless, acceptance into medical school is luck based? I honestly don't know if the risk is worth it given everything I'm reading, so I'm uncertain as to what I'm going to do at this point. If 60% of all applicants are rejected then what do I have to lose? I wouldn't be the first person who wanted to become a medical doctor, and never got accepted into a medical school, right? So honestly, time is the only thing lost, and it's not entirely lost if I pick a useful undergraduate degree.