What is the real difference between DO and MD?

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LadyBug9933

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You must be thinking... "she has to be joking" but alas, I am not.

I am 17 years old and I am sure there are tons of 17 year olds who know this difference, but I am confused? I've been reading these boards and I've come to realize there is medical school for DO's and MD's... but, what is the difference between BEING a DO or MD?

I apoloize ahead of time if this is a stupid question and anyone is bothered by it!
 
The ability to SPECIALIZE in a competitive field like Pediatric Oncology. If I wanted to be a family practice or general medicine I would go DO, but I am willing to reapply for the MD b/c of my own specific specialized residency interest.
 
wait so... a DO is a doctor?

so what is an orthopedist or orthopedic surgeon? an MD or DO?

what is a pediatrician?

thanks so much! 🙂 😍
 
A DO or MD can be any type of doctor you've ever heard of. Some will say it is more difficult for DOs to be super specialized, but there are DOs in every specialty.

The difference is philosophy and OMT (osteopathic manipulative treatment) for the DOs. Go to www.aacom.org and hunt around, you'll get a better answer there about DOs.

p.s. I shadowed my first DO today and it was a very positive experience.
 
The basic difference is that the average MCAT (the SAT/ACT for med school) & GPA combo for an M.D. (an allopathic physician) is a 29.7 & 3.61, while the average for a D.O. (osteopathic physician) is a 24.9 & 3.43.
 
so... I am still confused, I'm sorry!

someone who is a DO can do surgery? are they still referred to as "doctor?" can they still open their own practice?

why do more people choose not to go the DO route?
 
Originally posted by LadyBug9933
so... I am still confused, I'm sorry!

someone who is a DO can do surgery? are they still referred to as "doctor?" can they still open their own practice?

why do more people choose not to go the DO route?

Oh God, do a search!
 
I must agree, but post what you find here, as long as it does not turn into another MD vs. DO war...🙄
 
Originally posted by LadyBug9933
so... I am still confused, I'm sorry!

someone who is a DO can do surgery? are they still referred to as "doctor?" can they still open their own practice?

why do more people choose not to go the DO route?
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Maybe personal preference.
 
Originally posted by LadyBug9933
why do more people choose not to go the DO route?
This question was answered for you by WatchingWaiting.
 
The basic difference is that the average MCAT (the SAT/ACT for med school) & GPA combo for an M.D. (an allopathic physician) is a 29.7 & 3.61, while the average for a D.O. (osteopathic physician) is a 24.9 & 3.43.

Yeah, thats the difference.😡 😡 😡 +pissed+

Premeds love those numbers. You know it would be really nice if you had a clue before you posted. Even though walking through a level I trauma center staffed my both MD's and DO's you may not see the difference, there is a fundamental philosophy taught at the twenty osteopathic medical schools around the country. And then there is that whole Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine thing that is helping patients out. Wow, some people scare me😱

I know I haven't started medical school yet, but I have worked in a trauma center.NEWS FLASH Over here in the big kids play ground the MD's and DO's not only work together and save lives together, but they also respect eachother. HOLY HELL here comes the all inspiring, spiritually enlightened premed with a comeback.

+pissed+ +pissed+ +pissed+
 
Re: there is a fundamental philosophy taught at the twenty osteopathic medical schools around the country.

I've looked over the curricula web pages at several osteopathic schools. Less than 5% of your time at an osteopathic school will be spent learning about "osteopathic manipulation." Moreover, it has no role whatsoever in ob/gyn, surgery, radiology, anesthesiology, opthamology, dermatology, pathology, neurology, psychiatry-- more than half of medical practices. So, cut the BS. The main difference is the academic qualifications of the incoming students.
 
it has no role whatsoever in ob/gyn, surgery, radiology, dermatology, psychiatry, about half of medical practices.

Did you read the part of my post where I talked about having a clue before you post?

There is countless applications for OMM in ortho and Ob/Gyn. BESIDES that other half of medicine you so quickly dismissed is quite large my friend. Like I said the fundamental difference is not the numbers. In reality the numbers are not really all that different. John smith got four more questions right on the MCAT than Bob smith which came out to be three points higher. Well John smith is obviously superior intellectually therefore John should be a Doctor and Bob gets the mop. I love premeds.😛 😛
 
Re: In reality the numbers are not really all that different. John smith got four more questions right on the MCAT than Bob smith which came out to be three points higher. Well John smith is obviously superior intellectually therefore John should be a Doctor and Bob gets the mop. I love premeds.

Do you dismiss academic achievement as one of the most important indicators of success in med school and as a physician? Do you think scores on the boards don't matter either (hint: there is a strong correlation between MCAT scores and performance on the boards)? Why do you obfuscate about the differences in qualifications among incoming students? 5 points on the MCAT is about 20 questions. And, what about the difference in gpas? Is that all irrelevant too?
 
GPA's and board scores are very important. The reason I chose to go to KCOM was there extremely high step one scores. On the GPA note, undergrad gpa is important but there is not an Osteopathic medical school out there with a horrible GPA average. I know that KCOM's GPA and MCAT average rival many allopathic averages. I also know that KCOM's match list is quite impressive, to me this being the single most important factor in deciding on a school. In addition, I believe that most people would argue that the MCAT is a better means in which to evaluate someones abililty to succeed in medical school. However, even the national standardized test comes under hostile fire when presented as an accurate litmus test for the success in medical school. Considering the the MCAT is not an average of the three scores, but rather a simple addition it is entirely possible to simple answer four more questions right and get three points higher. READ my posts, I never said three points higher in one section. I said three points higher on the test. EX. 9+9+10=28 10+10+11=31

Basic addition
 
Board scores are actually quite a different beast than mcats and gpas. But outside of those differences tend to be age of matriculants, and fundamental philosophy in education. Alot of D.O. schools are more primary care geared..and quite good at it..where MD schools tend to be more research based. This doesn't mean the other can't /won't do the reverse. Before this does become "who has bigger balls" thread to confuse a young impressionable mind, I think folks should try hard to give unbiased information... Additionally, the OP should do a search online.

The truth of the matter is most of your questions are really POST training related. In the REAL WORLD, mcat and gpas don't matter...yes board scores do a little bit more as they determine residency and if you don't pass...you can't practice...but then the nitty gritty is saving lives and patient care. In the REAL WORLD, after residencies MDs and DOs practice on all the same levels...receive the same pay and the same respect for that matter. It's the PRE stuff that is difficult. Pre-med often times means ignorant in that right now, we (i say we because i am premed also) can only worry about applications, which inherently means gpas and mcats. I definitely have to say that most applicants to DO schools, tend to be a lil older having had a career previous, and are little bit more on target with what is going on in the real world. No one carries their gpa on their sleeves...it isn't even talked about really....regardless of the profession.

I think your best bet might be going to the ALLO or OSTEO or RESIDENT boards to get a good impression of what some of the actual differences are in the real world. Keeping in mind, that these impressions might also be biased as well..since no one technically on these boards are "practicing" physicians just yet.

my two cents...
 
You are right Ms. Dawson, the original poster deserves his/her question answered to the best ability of us fellow SDNers. My first advice to the OP is to take some of the stuff you get here with a grain of salt. I.E. it is not always accurate, that is why I got frustrated with one of the posters. Here is a description of what osteopathic medicine is from the KCOM website. KCOM stands for Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, it is now technically named ATSU(A.T. Still University) after the founder of Osteopathic medicine A.T. Still M.D/D.O the website is www.kcom.edu




Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.s) are complete physicians who are fully trained and licensed to prescribe medication and to perform surgery. D.O.s and allopathic physicians (M.D.s) are the only two types of complete physicians.
Osteopathic medicine embraces a holistic philosophy, considering the body as a unit of interrelated systems that work together to ensure good health. In addition to prescribing medication and performing surgery, osteopathic physicians are trained to use osteopathic manipulative medicine as an additional tool in diagnosing and treating patients.
Osteopathic physicians focus on the musculoskeletal system. This interconnected system of nerves, muscles, and bones makes up about two-thirds of the body's structure and plays a critical role in its ability to function. D.O.s are trained to identify structural problems and to facilitate the body's natural tendency towards health and self-healing.
D.O.s practice in all branches of medicine and surgery, from psychiatry to emergency medicine. However, D.O.s are trained to be primary care physicians first and specialists second. The majority (about 60 percent) of D.O. graduates become primary care physicians who practice in small towns and rural areas, often taking care of entire families and whole communities.
 
Does a DO path create a bit more difficulty in landing that ultra competitive residency position?

How would equal board scores play into that answer (given a MD vs. DO with equal scores)?

Is either path going to better prepare you for the board exams?

My PERCEPTION is that DO's are still considered a bit of a step-child in the medical community??

Any comments? I'm asking for opinions, not lynching or torches pls.
 
It probably IS more difficult for DOs to land competitive positions, but I worked in a hospital where several of the top orthopedic surgeons in the country practice, and a couple of the fellows there were DOs. So I'm sure most residencies and fellowships, while giving weight to the type of school you attended, care at least as much about your board scores.
 
Re: Considering the the MCAT is not an average of the three scores, but rather a simple addition it is entirely possible to simple answer four more questions right and get three points higher. READ my posts, I never said three points higher in one section. I said three points higher on the test.

If there is anything I have learned about DOs vs MDs from reading past discussions, it is that DOs are either unwilling or unable to understand statistics and absolutely love to use the random anecdote to oppose the reality that applies to the other 99% of the population. You made up the three point difference-- there is a five point MCAT difference between the average MD and DO. If you think I've made up the difference, go to the american association of colleges of osteopathic medicine and check their data on DO matriculants: http://www.aacom.org/data/annualreport/annualreport2001.pdf

It's 5 points on the MCAT. And that, on average, is 20 questions, which is non-trivial. Moreover, don't forget the gpa difference of a 3.4 versus a 3.6.

And, honestly, your whole "3 pts could mean 4 questions" argument is so brain-dead as to be embarrassing. Yeah, for one applicant 3 or 4 questions might mean 3 pts on composite mcat, but for another 999 it does not.
 
So does this difference in MCAT scores make DOs less capable doctors? Absolutely not. I know of many hospitals here in Washington, where the most prominent specialized physicians in the place are DOs.
The lead surgeon for the US military forward surgical team in IRAQ is a DO. He just rotated in two weeks ago. They must think he is pretty good to give him command of some of the best physicians in the land. In fact, I'm pretty sure he gets to tell MDs what to do all the time! How about that?
 
I am not one that looks at them differently, however:

1.) You have to explain to MANY people (which is why you asked what the difference is) what the difference actually is...
2.) The respect you earn without an MD after your name is MUCH less
3.) I worked with a DO in Emergency.. he was the only one without something after his name. Everybody had Dr. xxx xxxxx M.D, except him, he just had Dr. xxx xxxx. It is assumed a lower status. Imagine his patients having to ask him, who the hell are you? Where is the M.D.?

It's unfortunate but true... that's the way it is for now. People will deny it, and those are the people who researched it. The average American will ask, what the hell is a D.O. and it also seems that in a situation of equal applicants for a position in a facility the employer will pick the M.D. over a D.O.

Like I said, it's unfortunate, but it's the way it is. Hence, if any part of your decision to go into the medical field is for respect and status, then go MD or else that will be crushed when people don't know what you do and you have to xplain over and over and over and over until you retire.

J
 
Wow...ok here goes my 2 cents...first of...its amazing that it turned into a MD vs DO flame war for a lil bit..and lets just go back to answering the original posters question. I have gotten into several MD and DO schools through this past year's application process and eventually chose DO. I think this thread has explained the difference between MD's and DO's ...and basically it is the additional hours of training in anatomy, biomechanics with respect to Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine. You have to shadow a D.O. in order to really understand what its like to be "respected" and ask them whether they always get asked "what is a D.O.?"...and how they respond to that question.

Here's my opinion on that issue..because I obviously considered that issue, but I am still choosing DO....why you ask...why would I be so crazy as to ruin the rest of my life and get asked over and over and over again ..."what is a DO...are you a doctor?"... the answer is simple...because FOR ME, going DO would make me into the best possible physician I can be. I look at the training I am going to receive, I looked at the opportunities I will make available to my patients...and all in all...I do have something to offer that an allopath does not. But that is not simply it either...I look at the curriculum and training....at DO schools we are taught from day 1 the meaning of "holistic" medicine and it is a standard at EVERY DO school...to "Treat the patient not just the disease....not just the symptoms"....take into account the bio-psycho-social model and treat the patient on all levels of lifestyle...getting a more detailed patient history when doing an intial check-up...etc. Yes, I may get asked "What is a D.O."...but I will be PROUD to tell them over and over again what it is, because I am proud of the profession I am going into. I will be proud to work with MD's, PT's, Chiropractors, R.N.'s, Pharmacists, Podiatrists, and Occupational Therapists....it doesnt matter what initials they got after their damn name...i dont care what GPA and "standardized test scores" they got in undergrad...all I care is that they are competent healthcare workers. And believe me, I know of many top-notch DO dermatologists, Orthopedic Surgeons, Neurosurgeons..who have done allopathic residencies at Yale, Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, etc....who had the "DO numbers" getting into medical school but then raped the boards and kicked ass in medical school..so I guess maybe the MCAT isnt 100% surely a good predictor of medical school or residency success, huh? This is not just talk...I am speaking the truth based on personal references and research. I am not here to mislead any pre-meds, just offer my opinion as any other poster does.

So, all in all...I am not bashing allopaths in this post...I am just telling you my personal opinion on why I chose osteopathy(even though I was offered acceptances to MD schools)...the philosophy and training and overall curriculum and what my school had to offer just overwhelmed anything the MD schools offered.

If your goal is to become a competent, good physician....dont worry about the initials...if you TRULY have your heart set in medicine then you will be proud as an allopath or an osteopath...you just have to find the right "fit". This ignorance of respect usually is rooted in families with old-traditional MD's who are jealous of the fact DO schools do tend to "look past the numbers"...I have some in my extended family(aunts and uncles adn cousins)...but frankly my dear...I DONT GIVE A DAMN...hahaha. I am happy to be the first DO in my family of MD's and I will show them the advantages of OMM when I get to practice on them in the future. If I may ask one thing of pre-meds...which I'm sure will fall deaf on many pre-med ears....just because of some bad pre-med advisors and ignorant parents who arent as informed as us actually in the shoes of being a medical student and the medical community......is please dont continue this ignorance of the DO being a "second-rate" doctor...its not true..and there are plenty of stats(not MCAT and GPA numbers...because all that proves is that you can perform on standardized tests and study...but doesnt say jack about being a competent, compassionate physician) to prove it.

Thanks...sorry for the long post...but I was gettin sick when reading some of the flaming on this thread...

good luck to all you premeds out there...the DREAM is POSSIBLE!
Mani :clap:
 
the average DO school graduate more people than your average MD school does, so in the long run i suspect that you will see a leveling of the playing field, as the markets become more evenly flooded with MDs and DOs.
 
well even though that is true...we got a WAAAYS to go to see an evening out of playing field..simply because there are over 100 MD schools in the us and only 19..sorry 20 DO schools in the US. Even if the DO schools were tripling the graduate numbers of MD, we wouldn't see a significant change for many many years. Although I do think DOs are gaining popularity due to the shortage in primary care physicians. In the end this obsession with GPA and MCAT scores subsides after practically the first minute of being an M1 at any institution. You get there, and its about business...no time to dwell on the past. A big fish could easily become the 'almost dead fish' if he/she thinks the GPA and mcat score is going to carry him/her through med school.
 
. In the end this obsession with GPA and MCAT scores subsides after practically the first minute of being an M1 at any institution. You get there, and its about business...no time to dwell on the past.

While I agree with this statement, one should not forget that each year osteopathic medical schools are become ever more competative. Some of the more competative such as Michigan state, Oklahoma state, and KCOM are already surpasing some of the allopathic schools in admissions standards. It is only a matter of five to ten years that the stats will be the same. However, I hold true to my original arguement that stats are not the difference between the schools, talk about a brain dead statement.
 
sbrown, your implication that the difference between do and md students is only 3-4 questions on the mcat is a horrible misrepresentation of statistics. Yeah I suppose that it would be *possible* for someone to miss 3 more questions as another and have a score 3 points lower, but this would be a 1/75 occurence. Furthermore, the difference is almost 5 points, not 3 points.

Overall, the difference is about 20 questions total. With some comparisons it may be 15 questions and other 25 questions. That's not insignificant as far as statistics for medical school admission go. Is that significant to being a good doctor? How the heck should I know? But when statistics are misrepresented as you have done, well.....that needs to be corrected.

Also, to defend DO admissions practices, check out how low the % acceptance is at most schools. To have < 10% acceptance rates and average stats of 3.4/25, that means they must be screening heavily for other things(a good amount of paid clinical experience??). If it were that easy to get in(3.4/25) and stats were as big a part of the process as with state allopathic schools, then the acceptance rates would be a lot higher.
 
The stats are only lower because DO schools are not as competitive as MD schools; MD schools tend to attract the higher echelon of students simply because they believe them to be the only viable option for obtaining a career in medicine. Most of you seem to be failing to grasp this concept.

The average entering stats of DO schools has slowly increased in the past few years. In the late 60's/early 70's it was feasibly possible to get into an MD school with less than a 3.0 GPA. Did this make all MD schools crap? Hardly.

In the next 10-20 years, admission into a DO school will be just as competitive as today's MD schools. Where does that leave admission into MD schools? They, on average, will increase as well. Eventually, anyone with less than a 3.7 has almost zero chance of being admitted. Granted, these numbers are completely arbitrary -- but the trend does remain.

DO schools aren't the "alternative" to MD schools, people are just fed to believe they are because of what they are told by advisors. The true alternative is the Caribbean schools.

I find it interesting that most MD premeds aren't as quick to degrade the Caribbean MD schools as they are the DO schools.

For the MD and premed elitists, I refer you to my signature found below.
 
The New England Journal of Medicine article linked to above (http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/341/19/1465) is quite informative. I especially liked,

"a 1995 survey of 1055 osteopathic family physicians found that they used manual therapy only occasionally; only 6.2 percent used osteopathic manipulation for more than half of their patients, and almost a third used it for fewer than 5 percent" [Johnson SM, Kurtz ME, Kurtz JC. Variables influencing the use of osteopathic manipulative treatment in family practice. J Am Osteopath Assoc 1997;97:80-87]

You will find this one offensive, but just so I don't have to listen to, "once you get to M1, you don't think about the academic qualifications any more:"

"The more recent their graduation from medical school, the less likely practitioners were to use osteopathic manipulation, a finding consistent with the view that osteopathic practice is moving closer to allopathic practice. A decreasing interest in osteopathic manipulation may also indicate that more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools. The osteopathic physicians who are more committed to osteopathic manipulation tend to be more likely than their colleagues to have a fundamentalist religious orientation."

Re: In the late 60's/early 70's it was feasibly possible to get into an MD school with less than a 3.0 GPA

This is easily explained by the "grade inflation" and "gpa creep" that has occurred over the last forty years. The relative gpas of matriculated candidates have not changed much over the years.
 
Originally posted by WatchingWaiting
A decreasing interest in osteopathic manipulation may also indicate that more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools.

This is a strange statement. Sounds like it was written by someone with an agenda. Who would have a deeply held belief in a therapy that they haven't even learned yet? (For instance do allopaths have a deeply held belief in knee lavage before they enter med school 😉 ) Manipulation is a tool just like physical therapy, some use it most don't.

It doesn't mean there is no value in learning it especially if you go into some type of hands on practice like emergency medicine or PM&R where you might have to put things back into their proper place 😉 . Modern Osteopaths are medical doctors first, despite the lack of the two initials after their name, manipulation is just one extra tool they have.
😉
 
WatchingWaiting...is there something wrong with having future colleagues that are DO's? I am really curious as to why you are so adamant about showing allopaths superiority in terms of numbers and how "osteopathic schools" are just back-ups and are an option once one fails to get into the almighty allopathic college. This is the feeling I am getting. I have so much respect for allopaths...all the doctors in my extended family(aunts, uncles, and cousins) are allopaths and they are great. I have nothing against allopaths....except those pre-allopaths who decide to prove and bring in articles written by people who write opinionated articles with phrases such as "more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools." Wow...this is a real vague generalization that promotes the ignorance and stereotype of DO's as "second-rate" doctors. Do you enjoy offending others, WatchingWaiting....I am afraid for the type of medicine you are going to practice...and it is truly sad that you are going into this field with your attitude. Have you ever thought about working WITH and getting along WITH your future colleagues instead of competing and proving the , in your eyes, "superior" nature of allopathy because osteopathic students "failed" at doing allopathy...so we must now settle for the D.O....but somehow the United States will still allow us to practice our sub-standard numbers form of medicine and we will still get licensed even though we dont have the average GPA and MCAT scores of allopathic students....so sad isnt it? They should just outright ban all of us from practicing medicine if we cant hang with the allopaths, am i right?

This is absurd...I cant believe this attitude. I hate to create a flame war...but its nonsense when you get posts like the one written by WatchingWaiting...and you expect pre-meds to have an open mind about their options for medical school.

Let me say, that there are plenty of people in DO schools who have been accepted to MD schools and chose DO. Just as right.,..there are those who could not get into MD schools and go for DO...but their goal was to become a physician one way or another...no matter what. If you are truly proud of going to an allopathic school..then so be it...thats great...I'm sure you'll be a great physician...as long as you can learn how to respect others working with you in the health-care field...you might as well flame pharmacy students(since apparently its easy to get into that school), dental students(another "back-up" to medicine isnt it?)....I'm sorry, but I dont flame these students...I am proud of them just as I am proud of any other student seeking his/her profession no matter what the difficulty of entrance.

Now in regards to Osteopathic Manipulation in use in practice....yes to some it will be of great use...to others it may not have as much as an impact. But knowing that we have the tool at our fingertips(no pun intended) is all a DO needs. My family physician is a DO and she cant use OMM because of arthritis..but all the med students who rotate thru her office use OMM on the patients..and eveyone comes out smiling and relieved from its effects. It surely doesnt harm anyone or else we wouldnt be taught it. It's a great tool to have whether or not we use it or not...its like saying why study radiology in medical school if you know you're only going into pediatrics...at least you have the knowledge. So who cares if people use it or not..we are physicians just like MD's are physicians...these days no can tell the difference between the two...OMM is used as needed or not used depending on the specialty but its there.

Oh and finally about those people who believe in OMM have a fundamentalist religion...well what kind of an absurd correlation is that? I'm sorry, but the last time I checked there are students of every religion attending DO schools...some students who dont have religions at DO schools...yet they believe in the philosophy...hmm, makes you wonder about the validity of that statement?

Please...stop the article links and need to prove something on here...if you want to go into medicine...go into it without the attitude of needing to feel better than other mere DO's...and go into it with the attitude of improving the quality of the life of the patient...even if it means working with us lowly DO's.

Thanks,
Mani🙂
 
You (and almost all other osteopaths, or at least the ones that feel the need to post on pre-allopathic threads) bring an awful lot of extraneous bull into these discussions. The average incoming osteopath was less motivated and did less work during his or her undergraduate training than did the average incoming allopath. I happen to have worked hard undergrad, have an interesting set of experiences in my life, and would appreciate it if you folks would just 'fess up to your relative underperformance, instead of BSing about how you just love osteopathic manipulation (even though < 5% of you will actually use it in a meaningful way when you start practicing medicine) and are equally qualified, but only the osteopathic schools are willing to look at the "total charcter of the applicant."

In short, I am annoyed by underachievers who won't admit their underachievement. Every DO vs MD thread I've seen boils down to you guys making excuses for your collective undergraduate underperformance or claiming that the difference between MD and DO applicants is negligible. It's not!

And, honestly, you guys are seriously deluding yourselves and, more importantly, future applicants when you claim DOs have equal opportunity to MDs. The number of osteopaths in allopathic radiology, dermatology, neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, etc. [ie: competitive] specialties is practically nil. You guys can find one example of a DO in ten years matching into these fields (while DOs are almost twenty percent of graduating physicians), and proclaim equality. Get over it!
 
:clap: :clap: :clap:

I for one am more informed and educated thanks to fine future physicians like MsDawsonDO and Ca$hMani, who take the time to patiently enlighten us despite the constant hazing they receive.

MsDawson/Ca$h many of us pre-meds are getting the message: Osteopathy is not only a viable option for medical school - as a first choice - but also enables physicians who master its skill to provide patients with medical strategies for healing unavailable in an MD's toolbag. I look forward to learning more about DO's and making an informed decision during my app cycle.

Thanks Doc😎
 
Originally posted by WatchingWaiting
The basic difference is that the average MCAT (the SAT/ACT for med school) & GPA combo for an M.D. (an allopathic physician) is a 29.7 & 3.61, while the average for a D.O. (osteopathic physician) is a 24.9 & 3.43.
And let's not forget to point out that these DO avgs are seriously overinflated. Repeated classes replace earlier grades; the best of each section is used from multiple MCATs. An accurate avg would be much lower. Several foreign schools are more difficult to get into.
 
Originally posted by blhyqwy
many of us pre-meds are getting the message: Osteopathy is not only a viable option for medical school - as a first choice - but also enables physicians who master its skill to provide patients with medical strategies for healing unavailable in an MD's toolbag.
For many osteopaths it was a first choice by necessity.
 
Ok let me say this first, I rarely ever post anything on here but after reading WatchingWaiting comments I just couldn't resist.

You are disrespecting alot of people with your comments. Everyone who gets into medical school has worked their tails off to get this point, whether it be MD or DO. I for one and im sure many other future/curent osteopathic physicians worked plenty hard to get into medical school. As a matter of fact I bet I worked harder than you. Your future co-workers will be DO's and I hope I am one of them because if I would ever receive that additude from you I'd gladly knock you out. Your posts are simply ridiculous. I hope for the sake of your patients and co-workers that you have some sort of revolation in the way you think about medicine. I love medicine and Im glad I was choosen to be in this profession. Its a privilage not a right to practice.

To all the pre-med students pay no attention to pompous jerks like WatchingWaiting. A doctor, is a doctor, is a doctor. A DO or a carribean MD is not inferior to an MD. If you work hard you'll get to where you want to be. Letters behind your name mean absolutely nothing to the people that are counting you. I hope that all future doctors, DO's and MD's, realize this.
 
First off....blhyqwy....thank you for your kind words. I am here to offer my opinion and advice as I had to make the decision to choose between allopathy and osteopathy when I was accepted to both....all in all I looked at facilities, rotations, technology, and friendliness of students....and then I looked at what exactly I wanted out of medicine as a future physician...and what I could offer the patient....I didnt care about MCAT's and GPA's...at this point, the past is the past....it's history. It is unfortunate that we must receive hazing for just believing in another school of thought...ofcourse it isnt just this but the fact that our schools have sub-par entrance numbers....which in minds of ignorant, insecure pre-allopaths equates to poor performance as a physician...go figure?!? No patient in their right mind is gonna care how we performed on our MCAT or what our undergrad GPA was....if a school of medicine accepted us and then graduated us...and we are consequently licensed as full-fledged physicians...then we are FULLY CAPABLE of practicing medicine. Now whether or not we are compassionate, caring and really in the field because we want to "help people" is a different story and roots back to the TRUE motives of actually going to medical school. It is an embarrassment to medicine in general when we have students like WatchingWaiting who have to CONSTANTLY make DO students feel bad about the sub-par numbers of the schools and CONSISTENTLY show everyone on these boards that you are nothing if you go D.O. and with his reasoning that we will have to go hide in a cave and if we're lucky maybe live out of a cardboard box. Oh not to mention at parties with other professionals...we are not able to engage in intellectual conversations because we are underachievers and have not attained 4.0's and 30+ on the MCATS on average like our allopath counterparts.

WatchingWaiting....look, I hope YOU can understand there are lots of reasons for people to have low GPA's and low MCATS. f With regards to GPA- family problems, health issues, deaths in the family, personal problems, and other unexpected stressors of life. And then there are those people who, out of high school, go to a big public college/university and may have partied their a$$ off their first years and screwed up....but then eventually turned it around...became disciplined and matured and their grades were nothing but A's in their last couple years and they were involved in extracurriculars, volunteering, health-care related experiences..etc.. Do we condemn BOTH these people if they were accepted to medical school. I wont...I say if they are mature enough to turn it around and discover the proper coping mechanisms and eventually turnaround their life...ALL THE POWER TO THEM! Thats an awesome accomplishment for them!! If they can show the admissions committee that they are capable of being a worthwhile investment of the medical school(in terms of taking one seat out of the 80-200+ medical seats dependent on the school)...then we should not be here bashing the fact that they have sub-par numbers so lets shoot down the entire profession. Is that mature, in and of itself? Ask yourself that WatchingWaiting and then get back to me...I'm sure you will realize this when you work with other D.O.'s in the future...or will you shrub him off..what happens when the attending is a D.O or the chief resident..then how will you act(he just may have scored many points less than you on the MCAT and had only a 3.0-3.5 gpa)...then what?

In regards to DO's being represented in specialties...obviously its low because there are only 20 DO schools versus 120+ MD schools. Considering that, and the fact that there ARE students who actually DO go to D.O. school because they want to go into primary care and get a strong primary care education. In regards to people proclaiming equality....equality doesnt have to mean that we have to be represented equally in all the fields...when we speak equality it is in terms of we are BOTH physicians...we BOTH treat patients...and we are BOTH known as doctors of medicine...no matter what type..osteopathic or allopathic...we BOTH can write prescriptions. I'm sorry for anyone who had claimed equality in terms of representation because we are not equally represented...by sheer numbers there are just so many more MD graduates than DO grads cuz of the number of schools. BUT, in terms of difficulty in finding a residency...its all about your board scores, grades, and extracurriculars. My friend who just graduated from NSUCOM(Nova) is now doing his Radiology residency at the Mayo Clinic...another friend of mine who just finished rotating thru my family doctor from CCOM(Midwestern) is going to do Anesthesiology at Northwestern. I hate to drop school names and have to prove stuff..but it seems like that is what you need..

once again...I hope more pre-meds can begin to speak like blhyqwy....and research the profession yourself and not get twisted thoughts from ignorant premeds who are all about the M.D. and not all about going into medicine for the sake of a patient.🙄

Thanks,
Mani 🙂
 
In the spirit of informing the original poster, here's the full text of the New England Journal of Medicine article:

Volume 341:1465-1468 November 4, 1999 Number 19 Editorial: The Paradox of Osteopathy

In the spring of 1864, Andrew Taylor Still, a rural Kansas practitioner, watched helplessly as the best medications then available failed to save his three children from spinal meningitis. Bitterly disappointed, Still set out to devise an alternative healing practice. He eventually based his new system on the idea that manipulation of the spine could improve blood flow and thus improve health by allowing the body to heal itself. His philosophy included a healthy dose of moralism; patients were forbidden to consume any liquor and, as part of the break from existing practices, were also forbidden to take any medicine.1 Still founded a school to teach his new system of osteopathy in Kirksville, Missouri, in 1892.

Osteopathy was not the only system of spinal manipulation to be created in the late 19th century. Chiropractic, established in 1895 by Daniel David Palmer, aimed to relieve obstruction in the nerves rather than in the blood vessels. Osteopathy and chiropractic initially shared several characteristics. Both were founded when Americans freely chose from many systems of healing. Both were home-grown American systems created at about the same time by messianic midwesterners. Both systems were seen by many midwesterners as preferable to the reductionist European model of laboratory-based medicine, which was established most firmly on the eastern seaboard and was fast becoming the standard.

Over the course of the 20th century, medicine as practiced by M.D.'s (sometimes called allopathy) has come to dominate U.S. health care. Chiropractic and osteopathy, initially parts of a pluralistic medical system, have taken very different paths. Chiropractors have generally remained focused on spinal manipulation for a limited set of conditions, particularly those that are often resistant to allopathic therapy, such as back pain. Osteopaths, on the other hand, have worked hard to employ the entire therapeutic armamentarium of the modern physician, and in so doing they have moved closer to allopathy.2

The move toward assimilation became explicit in California in the early 1960s, when the California Medical Association and the California Osteopathic Association merged in what has been called the osteopathic profession's darkest hour.3 By attending a short seminar and paying $65, a doctor of osteopathy (D.O.) could obtain an M.D. degree; 86 percent of the D.O.'s in the state (out of a total of about 2000) chose to do so. The College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons became the University of California College of Medicine, Irvine. Many osteopaths feared that the California merger was the wave of the future and that the profession would not survive. But it did, and in so doing it may have become even stronger. D.O.'s are now licensed in all 50 states to prescribe drugs, deliver babies, perform surgery ? in short, to do anything that M.D.'s can do. Despite national recognition, osteopathy is still a regional phenomenon in ways that mirror its historical origin. The ratio of D.O.'s to the population varies by a factor of almost 3, from a low of 7.7 per 100,000 population in the West to a high of 20.4 per 100,000 in the Midwest; the number is 8.5 per 100,000 in the South and 18.3 per 100,000 in the Northeast. M.D.'s are far more evenly distributed throughout the country.4

Osteopathy was originally created as a radical alternative to what was seen as a failing medical system. Its success at moving into the mainstream may have come at a cost ? the loss of identity. Most people ? including physicians ? know very little about the field (most people know more about chiropractic5). Many people ? even osteopaths ? question what osteopathy has to offer that is distinctive.

Those who claim that osteopathy remains a unique system usually base their argument on two tenets. One is the holistic or patient-centered approach, with a focus on preventive care, that they say characterizes osteopathy. That claim to uniqueness is hard to defend in the light of the increasing interest paid to this approach within general internal medicine and other areas of allopathic medicine. The other, potentially more robust, claim to uniqueness is the use of osteopathic manipulation as part of the overall therapeu-tic approach. In osteopathic manipulation, the bones, muscles, and tendons are manipulated to promote blood flow through tissues and thus enhance the body's own healing powers. The technique, based on the idea of a myofascial continuity that links every part of the body with every other part, involves the "skillful and dexterous use of the hands" to treat what was once called the osteopathic lesion but is now referred to as somatic dysfunction.6 Osteopathic manipulation is not well known (or practiced) by allopathic physicians, but for decades it has stood as the core therapeutic method of osteopathic medicine.
 
In this issue of the Journal, Andersson et al. report a comparison of osteopathic spinal manipulation, a form of osteopathic manual therapy, with standard care for patients with low back pain.7 Patients were randomly assigned to standard care (72 patients) or to treatment including manipulation (83 patients). Pain, functional ability, and the patients' satisfaction with their treatment were assessed with a variety of measures. After 12 weeks, there was significant improvement in both groups, and there was no difference between the two groups in any of the primary outcome measures. However, patients given standard therapy without osteopathic manipulation used significantly more medication and more physical therapy.

Some claim that osteopathic physicians are more parsimonious in their use of medical technology. Thus, they can provide more cost-effective medical care and reduce the need for medications, which, although effective, can have serious side effects. The specific mechanism that would account for any improvement in back pain directly related to osteopathic manipulation is unclear, but the most important studies will be those that test whether the technique works in clinical practice. Part of the success of osteopathic manipulation for patients with back pain may come from the fact that physicians who use osteopathic manipulation touch their patients.

Osteopathic manual therapy is claimed to be useful for treating a wide range of conditions, from pancreatitis to Parkinson's disease, sinusitis, and asthma. Some leading osteopaths say that manual therapy should be part of almost every visit to an osteopathic physician. A recent president of the American Osteopathic Association claimed that he "almost always turned to [osteopathic manipulation] before considering any other modality," and he asserted that 90 percent of his patients got better with osteopathic manipulation alone.8 Such claims underscore a raging debate within osteopathy and a disconnection between its theories and its practice. A 1995 survey of 1055 osteopathic family physicians found that they used manual therapy only occasionally; only 6.2 percent used osteopathic manipulation for more than half of their patients, and almost a third used it for fewer than 5 percent.9 The more recent their graduation from medical school, the less likely practitioners were to use osteopathic manipulation, a finding consistent with the view that osteopathic practice is moving closer to allopathic practice. A decreasing interest in osteopathic manipulation may also indicate that more physicians enter osteopathic medical school not as a result of a deeply held belief in the osteopathic philosophy but after failing to be admitted to allopathic medical schools.10 The osteopathic physicians who are more committed to osteopathic manipulation tend to be more likely than their colleagues to have a fundamentalist religious orientation.10

With or without manipulation therapy, osteopathic medicine seems to be undergoing a resurgence. Although the number of allopathic medical schools in the United States has remained stable since 1980, at about 125, the number of osteopathic medical schools has increased from 14 to 19. The number of graduates each year has increased at an even more disproportionate rate. The number of graduates of allopathic medical schools has increased only slightly, from 15,135 in 1980 to 15,923 in 1997, whereas the number of graduates of osteopathic medical schools has almost doubled, from 1059 to 2009, over the same period. Osteopathic medical schools have not done as well as allopathic medical schools in recruiting underrepresented minorities and women, and students entering osteopathic medical schools have somewhat lower grade-point averages and lower scores on the Medical College Admission Test. On the other hand, the ratio of applicants to those admitted is higher for osteopathic medical schools, 3.5 applicants for each person admitted, as compared with 2.4 for allopathic medical schools.11,12,13

Overall, osteopathic medical schools have come to resemble allopathic medical schools in most respects; some students even share classes. Graduates of osteopathic medical schools more often than not go on to residency training in allopathic programs.14 An evaluation of performance on the certifying examination of the American Board of Internal Medicine in the 1980s noted that although physicians from osteopathic medical schools did not do as well as those from allopathic programs, overall they "did well" and could be an "untapped reservoir of talented physicians" for internal medicine.15

Although they constitute only about 5 percent of U.S. physicians, osteopaths may be disproportionately important for the health care system by virtue of their distribution in terms of specialty and location: 60 percent of graduates of osteopathic medical schools select generalist fields.16 Because osteopathic education is more community-based than allopathic education, and because osteopathic schools are smaller, osteopathic education may be able to adapt more quickly to new approaches to health care delivery.17 Many more osteopaths than allopaths (18.1 percent vs. 11.5 percent) select rural areas in which to practice.18 One osteopathic medical school found that 20 percent of its graduates were practicing in underserved communities.19

At the end of the century, osteopathy continues its uneasy dance with allopathy, but only one partner is really paying attention. The resurgence in the numbers of osteopaths should not mask the precarious position of osteopathy. At its birth, osteopathy was a radical concept, rejecting much of what allopathic medicine claimed was new and useful. Today, osteopathic medicine has moved close to the mainstream ? close enough that in general it is no longer considered alternative medicine. The long-term survival of osteopathic medicine will depend on its ability to define itself as distinct from and yet still equivalent to allopathic medicine. That argument may best be articulated not in theoretical terms, but by demonstrating treatment outcomes. The paradox is this: if osteopathy has become the functional equivalent of allopathy, what is the justification for its continued existence? And if there is value in therapy that is uniquely osteopathic ? that is, based on osteopathic manipulation or other techniques ? why should its use be limited to osteopaths?


Joel D. Howell, M.D., Ph.D.
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0604

References


1 Gevitz N. The D.O.'s: osteopathic medicine in America. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1982.
2 Sirica CM, ed. Osteopathic medicine: past, present, and future. New York: Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation, 1996.
3 Rakow R. American Osteopathic Association Centennial: battling for DOs. The DO. January 1997:31-7.
4 Health, United States, 1998. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1998:326.
5 Gevitz N. Visible and recognized: osteopathic invisibility syndrome and the 2% solution. The DO. March 1997:23-4, 26-7.
6 Manual medicine research. In: Sirica CM, ed. Current challenges to M.D.s and D.O.s. New York: Josiah Macy, Jr. Foundation, 1996:114-26, 122.
7 Andersson GBJ, Lucente T, Davis AM, Kappler RE, Lipton JA, Leurgans S. A comparison of osteopathic spinal manipulation with standard care for patients with low back pain. N Engl J Med 1999;341:1426-1431.[Abstract/Full Text]
8 Berger J. AOA leaders: president. The DO. October 1997:24-9.
9 Johnson SM, Kurtz ME, Kurtz JC. Variables influencing the use of osteopathic manipulative treatment in family practice. J Am Osteopath Assoc 1997;97:80-87. [Erratum, J Am Osteopath Assoc 1997;97:202.][Medline]
10 Eckberg DL. The dilemma of osteopathic physicians and the rationalization of medical practice. Soc Sci Med 1987;25:1111-1120.[CrossRef][Medline]
11 Kowert C. Undergraduate osteopathic medical education. J Am Osteopath Assoc 1998;98:589-594.[Medline]
12 Singer AM. 1998 Annual statistical report. Chevy Chase, Md.: American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine, 1998.
13 Barzansky B, Jonas HS, Etzel SI. Educational programs in US medical schools, 1998-1999. JAMA 1999;282:840-846.[Abstract/Full Text]
14 Swallow CS, Bronersky VM, Falbo PW. Osteopathic graduate medical education. J Am Osteopath Assoc 1998;98:599-606.[Medline]
15 Shea JA, Norcini JJ, Benson JA Jr. Performance of U.S. osteopathic and Canadian medical school graduates on the American Board of Internal Medicine Certifying Examinations, 1984-1988. Acad Med 1990;65:523-526.[Abstract]
16 Council on Graduate Medical Education. COGME Physician Workforce Policies: recent developments and remaining challenges in meeting national goals: 14th report. Washington, D.C.: Department of Health and Human Services, 1999:7.
17 Ross-Lee B, Wood DL, Mann DD, Portanova RP, Kiss LE, Weiser MA. An osteopathic prescription for medical education reform. Part 1. Curriculum and infrastructure. J Am Osteopath Assoc 1997;97:403-408.[Medline]
18 Council on Graduate Medical Education. Physician distribution and health care challenges in rural and inner-city areas: 10th report. Washington, D.C.: Department of Health and Human Services, 1998:14.
19 Gugelchuk GM, Cody J. Physicians in service to the underserved: an analysis of the practice locations of alumni of Western University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific, 1982-1995. Acad Med 1999;74:557-559.[Medline]
 
Originally posted by Ca$h MaNi
I didnt care about MCAT's and GPA's...at this point, the past is the past....it's history. It is unfortunate that we must receive hazing for just believing in another school of thought...ofcourse it isnt just this but the fact that our schools have sub-par entrance numbers....which in minds of ignorant, insecure pre-allopaths equates to poor performance as a physician...go figure?!? No patient in their right mind is gonna care how we performed on our MCAT or what our undergrad GPA was....if a school of medicine accepted us and then graduated us...and we are consequently licensed as full-fledged physicians...then we are FULLY CAPABLE of practicing medicine.


Yes, I'm sure no patient in his right mind would care about objective criteria for assessing his doctor's academic performance.

Is medical school not about retaining and understanding vast amounts of information? Why dismiss past indications of one's ability to do so?

Do many students intentionally not pass tests, or intentionally fail to learn the material in the first place?
 
Re: It is an embarrassment to medicine in general when we have students like WatchingWaiting who have to CONSTANTLY make DO students feel bad about the sub-par numbers of the schools and CONSISTENTLY show everyone on these boards that you are nothing if you go D.O. and with his reasoning that we will have to go hide in a cave and if we're lucky maybe live out of a cardboard box.

I resent sloth masquerading as righteousness. You're sitting on the pre-allopathic thread talking to a bunch of pre-meds trying to convince them that osteopathic admits are at the same level as allopathic admits. And it's just not reality. Quit bringing in all the irrelevancies about how we'll practice in ten years. Stop trying to determine how I'm going to interact with osteopathic colleagues, or whether I'll be a good physician. You're using ad hominem attacks against a person you know virtually nothing about to obfuscate the key issue-- substantial osteopathic underqualification for admission to med school. I'm not saying anything about your individual qualifications or whether or not you chose to go DO (I have no idea who you are, what your story is, etc.), but the overall incoming osteopathic class.

And, I have to respond to the poster who said this--

Re: A DO or a carribean MD is not inferior to an MD.

This really highlights the absurdity of your argument. Go to your local university medical center and ask a couple hundred physicians whether they think there is a difference in quality between the average Carribean graduate and the average US-produced MD.
 
Just switch to Pharmacy or Podiatry. This is outta hand now. I think the original poster got her question answered. Enough is enough. Gotta stop trying to sell this vs. that.
 
The reality of it is that MCAT scores have no real correlation to how people succeed as physicians. People skills, however, turn out to be quite important. Forcing big words like obfuscation into conversation as some indication of intellectual might is almost comical.

GPA is garbage. I had people who went to undergrad with me who had 2.7 GPA's who switched schools and popped up to 4.0. At certain institutions grades are on a curve therefore to say that a person with a 3.0 at Yale is less academically talented that the guy with a 4.0 at Fred's online college of sciences is suspect at best.

As an aside- statistics are a tool for manipulation and -oh yeah "obfuscation"- calculate the variation in grading systems, school specific grade inflation, whether a class is curved around a C+ or a B- and all the rest is a wash. Throw in a few folks that major in photography and take the needed pre-med classes and their GPA will be just a hair higher than their biochem classmates- if only because they had more time to study.
 
The article was interesting...and the poster should probably just stick to posting articles for 'information' than his opinion, at least if he is really intending on helping the original poster answer the question. I believe her question was the "real difference between MD and DO." NOT Pre-mds or pre-dos. So, personally i think the entrance stats for the school are the irrelevant points. Someone with an MD or DO is already a physician...and what is relevant is HOW they are practicing NOW...not what their gpa or mcat score was 8 years previous.

Like i said earlier, perhaps it was an error to post such a question on a pre-allopathic board...and should have been more directed to the resident board..who have a better since of what its like to BE a DO or MD..since they actually have the degree. We, on this board, are all just guessers..and wannabes...we are trying to get to that end point.

No one, at least not me is trying to convince anyone to go DO. Everyone has to make their own choices based on their individual experiences and beliefs. Certainly more and more, there are people actively CHOOSING to be DOs despite getting MD acceptances.

Alot of people on these boards make such crazy assumptions. We have no idea why gpas are lower or mcats are lower....we can't assume its because of an 'inability to learn', which is what Farrago seems to be implying. Like someone said earlier, a bad gpa could be a result of a number of issues...as well as a poor mcat score. Furthermore, ALOT of pre-do's are second career folks....a huge majority in fact if you look at the average age of matriculants. "hardwork" is all relative. GPA and MCAT are not the only measures of hardwork. Raising a family, while in school...working two jobs while in school....there are various dimensions to being a hardworker and its very ignorant and somewhat 'tunnel vision' to assume that gpa and mcat scores are the only two parameters in judging that.

In the end however, what is and will always be most important is the scope of practice and patient treatment. Watchingwaiting, if i were you, i would refine my thinking on how 'irrelevant' your practice in 10 years will be..simply because you may run into FAR more adcoms that are interested in THAT during your interviews than your GPA and mcat score. If asked, what will be your answer? "Who cares, cause my GPA and mcat score is the bomb"? UM i don't think that is going to fly too well as an answer. Adcoms expect folks to come to the interviews having some semblence of a reason of why they want to be a physician and HOW they intend to practice..besides, i have a high gpa and mcat so i thought 'what the hell?" Being a physician is about several factors...being an MD and DO include ALL those factors the same. GPA and mcat scores are just the tip of the iceberg..and only important to us as we deal with the stressful application process. We will soon learn that its Boards next, 3rd year rotations performance, 4th year where you get to do electives, where you can match after that...an d before you know it..wow, you are about 8 YEARS from when you last thought about your undergrad gpa and mcat score. All those DOs out there, do we still dwell on their possible lower gpa or mcat..and discount the past hardER work for the last 8 years...i think not. this is what is meant by 'grow up'....only a child doesn't have foresight and can't see past the nose on his own face.


Back to the original poster, in theory MD=DO. In reality, There are some areas that have very scarce numbers...and therefore, one may encounter issues obtaining positions, possibly. But then there are some areas, like where i live, in PA and NY where DOs are in quite abundance...especially in the primary specialties. My Ob/gyn and family doctor are both DOs...did i know when i chose them...no because I got assigned a DOCTOR with my health plan....which speaks to another point...payments are the same, insurances treat them the same (ie DOs are not paying higher insurance premiums or vice verse)....and job openings will post for someone with an MD OR and DO in a particular specialty. Anyway i am tired of this thread. Take it with a grain of salt...i suggest going to speak to both a DO and MD and getting some insight from someone in the profession instead of us wannabes. Furthermore, go to the nearest hospital and talk with nurses and see if they notice a difference as they work with both....talking to real people already AT WORK in the REAL WORLD will give you the best insight. Articles are good, but in most cases NOT unbiased...these boards are CLEARLY biased...
 
to the OP, research osteopathic medicine on your own, and formulate your own goal. There will always be people biasing against DOs. Then again, this is how the world is, if there is discrimination against ethnicity, physical appearance, class status...etc, of course there will be discrimination against DOs, and MDs from "lower-tier" schools as well. Choose the route that'll allow you to become the finest physician, wherever you go.
G'luck
 
Originally posted by bd2b

GPA is garbage. I had people who went to undergrad with me who had 2.7 GPA's who switched schools and popped up to 4.0.

Good point. I knew a bunch of Chemical Engineers when I was an undergrad who had GPAs around 2.8 or so but I'm sure they were more intelligent than your average pre med with a carefully crafted 3.5 GPA.

Another interesting point. Did you know that almost a third of the doctors in Michigan are DOs? And if you add the DOs to the foreign medical grads in Michigan they outnumber the US allopaths?

So if you want to feel right at home as a DO go to Michigan State Osteopathic and practice in Michigan!

😉
 
Originally posted by skypilot
Good point. I knew a bunch of Chemical Engineers when I was an undergrad who had GPAs around 2.8 or so but I'm sure they were more intelligent than your average pre med with a carefully crafted 3.5 GPA.

I once heard an orthopedic surgeon (an MD) make an interesting comment. In his opinion, "getting an MD was not rocket science. Anyone with the endurance to jump through the hoops required can get in...and train to become a competent physician." At first I protested but it seems in this "beauty contest" that if one of moderate intelligence can carefully craft a 3.5 or bring other things to the table to round his/her profile and win a slot, then this statement has a hint of truth to it.
 
Umm other than the obvious (one is spelled MD and the other is spelled DO) One is a mystery dreamer while the other goes out and do things.
 
I agree totally with ms. dawson. Some folks at these forums really do not know what difficulties some people have to go through whilst going to school. Higher GPAs and MCATs do not mean you are smarter or more intelligent than others with lower stats. I am a premed and not predo but the difference between the two is minor and irrelevant. If DO was my thing, i will not have any problem being a DO. In fact, some people choose DO not because of low stats but because they like what a DO can offer them and others compare to MD. People who think DO's are less intelligent than their MD colleagues are sadly misinformed and wrong.
 
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