USMELL

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Okay, is it true, that taking the exam late as in around october, make it harder to score well, since you are going up against FMGs?

I didn't know there was a curve on the step 1.
 

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USMELL said:
Okay, is it true, that taking the exam late as in around october, make it harder to score well, since you are going up against FMGs?

I didn't know there was a curve on the step 1.
Most schools don't allow you to take it that late, since it is a prerequisite for beginning the 3rd year.
 
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OSUdoc08 said:
Most schools don't allow you to take it that late, since it is a prerequisite for beginning the 3rd year.
It's not at all schools.
 

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(nicedream) said:
It's not at all schools.
I feel sorry for the patients at their hospitals, having medical students who may not even be able to pass the boards responsible for treating them.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I feel sorry for the patients at their hospitals, having medical students who may not even be able to pass the boards responsible for treating them.
Yeah, cos third-years really have a lot of patient-care responsibility without oversight. :rolleyes:
 

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(nicedream) said:
Yeah, cos third-years really have a lot of patient-care responsibility without oversight. :rolleyes:
You'd be very surprised at the responsibility you can recieve at small hospitals.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I feel sorry for the patients at their hospitals, having medical students who may not even be able to pass the boards responsible for treating them.
I don't understand your point. First, I don't see what passing the boards has to do with clinical acumen. They are very different, and I don't think that someone who fails the boards is necessarily a liability on the wards (unless it is a person who somehow slipped through the cracks and is totally clueless). Passing the boards does not mean that you are able to do a good H&P, for instance, or that you are good at generating a DDx. Further, since US failure rates are low, even if students don't take their boards before the wards, the vast majority will end up passing the exam.

As someone else pointed out, third years really should not be having that much unsupervised influence on their patients' treatment. And if they do, I think that is a big problem regardless of whether these students have passed or will pass the boards. I don't know what kind of magical ability you think passing the boards gives med students, but they are still novices in the clinical setting and should be supervised as such. It doesn't make me feel better or worse to know that these poorly supervised students have or have not taken the boards.
 

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USMELL said:
all fine and dandy. But is there really a curve on the boards
How the boards are scored is complex and not really well known. Here is what the NBME says related to your question:

The USMLE program recommends a minimum passing score for each Step. Currently, the passing scores as set by the USMLE program are 182 for Step 1, 182 for Step 2 CK and 184 for Step 3 on the 3-digit scale, or 75 on the 2-digit scale. Each of these corresponds to answering 60-70% of the items correctly. Performance standards for USMLE are based on a specified level of proficiency. As a result, no predetermined percentage of examinees will pass or fail the examination. The passing scores are reviewed periodically and may be adjusted without notice prior to score reporting.

The content-based standard used for setting the passing score means that as many as 100% of candidates could theoretically pass, or conceivably 0%. The number is not arbitrarily predetermined. Similarly, the pass rate can vary from one accredited medical school in the United States to another, and from one year to another.
This suggests that it is not curved, but I have also heard that each questions have difficulty levels determined by how many people get them right and wrong.

Also I really don't understand why it matters if it is curved or not. You need to pass (or get 240+ or whatever your score requirement is), regardless of how the exam is scored. If it is curved to some degree, I would highly doubt that it would matter when in the year you take the exam; that would be unfair to test-takers, and I bet that residency programs would object as well.
 
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I'm obviously missing something...what is it about FMGs that is causing you to think that they raise the average score enough so as to throw the curve (which may or may not be present)?
 

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CaptainZero said:
I'm obviously missing something...what is it about FMGs that is causing you to think that they raise the average score enough so as to throw the curve (which may or may not be present)?
I agree -- the failure rate for FMGs is extremely high, so the multiple threads worrying about taking the exam with FMGs make absolutely no sense. Not to be too snarky, but maybe people would be better served brushing up on their biostats than worrying about FMGs busting the curve. :)
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I feel sorry for the patients at their hospitals, having medical students who may not even be able to pass the boards responsible for treating them.
Superman strikes again! God, you are awesome.
 
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RustNeverSleeps said:
I don't understand your point. First, I don't see what passing the boards has to do with clinical acumen. They are very different, and I don't think that someone who fails the boards is necessarily a liability on the wards (unless it is a person who somehow slipped through the cracks and is totally clueless). Passing the boards does not mean that you are able to do a good H&P, for instance, or that you are good at generating a DDx. Further, since US failure rates are low, even if students don't take their boards before the wards, the vast majority will end up passing the exam.

As someone else pointed out, third years really should not be having that much unsupervised influence on their patients' treatment. And if they do, I think that is a big problem regardless of whether these students have passed or will pass the boards. I don't know what kind of magical ability you think passing the boards gives med students, but they are still novices in the clinical setting and should be supervised as such. It doesn't make me feel better or worse to know that these poorly supervised students have or have not taken the boards.
If you don't know what the spinal cord is, you may have trouble doing a lumbar puncture. This may be true if you failed the boards.

To avoid confusion, I, an MS-III, performed one today.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
If you don't know what the spinal cord is, you may have trouble doing a lumbar puncture, which I, an MS-III did today.
:laugh: Yeah, because most people that fail the boards the biggest problem is that they don't "know what the spinal cord is". Also, I'm sure you had no instruction or supervision. "Hi, I'm dickwad the medical student, and I'm here to do your spinal tap."
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
If you don't know what the spinal cord is, you may have trouble doing a lumbar puncture. This may be true if you failed the boards.

To avoid confusion, I, an MS-III, performed one today.

1) Did you perform the lumbar puncture unsupervised?
2) Do you really think that a medical student, even one who miserably failed the boards, doesn't know what the spinal cord is?
 

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AlternateSome1 said:
1) Did you perform the lumbar puncture unsupervised?
2) Do you really think that a medical student, even one who miserably failed the boards, doesn't know what the spinal cord is?
1) No, but this isn't really relevant since I was the person in the sterile field.

2) 3 letters --> F.M.G.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
1) No, but this isn't really relevant since I was the person in the sterile field.

2) 3 letters --> F.M.G.
Your whole theory is BS because no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest. So maybe YOU don't know what a spinal cord is.
 

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(nicedream) said:
Your whole theory is BS because no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest. So maybe YOU don't know what a spinal cord is.

But OSUDoc does bring up quite a quandry -- what of DO students who pass COMLEX but fail the USMLE? Have these students heard of the spinal cord but have no clue where it is? Is it safe to have them running around the hospital, potentially giving patients LPs in the eye or groin? :p
 

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AlternateSome1:
"Do you really think that a medical student, even one who miserably failed the boards, doesn't know what the spinal cord is?"

OSUdoc08:
"3 letters --> F.M.G."


This is the cockiest thing i have read on here in a while. You have some serious issues. I hope your attitude towards "FMGs" changes sometime in the near future, otherwise you'll be in for a rude awakening.
 

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(nicedream) said:
Your whole theory is BS because no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest. So maybe YOU don't know what a spinal cord is.
The results should be coming in a few weeks, actually.

I was a neuroanatomy TA. If you would like a lecture on the spinal cord, please PM me and I would be happy to help.
 

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bolisol007 said:
AlternateSome1:
"Do you really think that a medical student, even one who miserably failed the boards, doesn't know what the spinal cord is?"

OSUdoc08:
"3 letters --> F.M.G."


This is the cockiest thing i have read on here in a while. You have some serious issues. I hope your attitude towards "FMGs" changes sometime in the near future, otherwise you'll be in for a rude awakening.
I've been dealing with their incompetence in ordering lab tests all day. No rude awakening needed.
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
The results should be coming in a few weeks, actually.

I was a neuroanatomy TA. If you would like a lecture on the spinal cord, please PM me and I would be happy to help.
What happened to the 3-4 month wait?
 

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(nicedream) said:
What happened to the 3-4 month wait?
I'm not sure where you heard that.

"I just took a computer-delivered Step. When will I get my scores?

USMLE Step scores are sent to you by your registration entity - for Step 1 and Step 2, either NBME or ECFMG; for Step 3, FSMB. You must contact your registration entity if you have questions about receiving your scores.
Scores ready for release are released on a weekly basis on Wednesdays. Generally these will include examinees tested three to six weeks before the release date. However, there are many factors that may delay an individual score release. Usually these will be quickly resolved and the score released in the next weekly cycle. If you have not received your score within six weeks of your test date, please contact your registration entity to determine the status of your score report.
Please note that during 2006, no new scores for computer-delivered Step examinations will be released during the week of July 3 and during the week of December 25.

Why does it take three to six weeks to score my examination?

In order to assure that both the processing and scoring of USMLE examinations are done in a secure and accurate fashion, it is necessary to follow a number of quality assurance steps. These steps include monitoring reports from test centers about test delivery problems and about possible security violations. For Steps 1 and 2 CK, these processes are completed for a majority of examinees in three to four weeks. For Step 3, because it is a two-day examination containing computer simulations, the processes are a bit more complex. For Step 3, most examinations are processed, scored, and reported in four to six weeks."

http://www.usmle.org/FAQs/faqusmle.htm
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I'm not sure where you heard that.

"I just took a computer-delivered Step. When will I get my scores?

USMLE Step scores are sent to you by your registration entity - for Step 1 and Step 2, either NBME or ECFMG; for Step 3, FSMB. You must contact your registration entity if you have questions about receiving your scores.
Scores ready for release are released on a weekly basis on Wednesdays. Generally these will include examinees tested three to six weeks before the release date. However, there are many factors that may delay an individual score release. Usually these will be quickly resolved and the score released in the next weekly cycle. If you have not received your score within six weeks of your test date, please contact your registration entity to determine the status of your score report.
Please note that during 2006, no new scores for computer-delivered Step examinations will be released during the week of July 3 and during the week of December 25.

Why does it take three to six weeks to score my examination?

In order to assure that both the processing and scoring of USMLE examinations are done in a secure and accurate fashion, it is necessary to follow a number of quality assurance steps. These steps include monitoring reports from test centers about test delivery problems and about possible security violations. For Steps 1 and 2 CK, these processes are completed for a majority of examinees in three to four weeks. For Step 3, because it is a two-day examination containing computer simulations, the processes are a bit more complex. For Step 3, most examinations are processed, scored, and reported in four to six weeks."

http://www.usmle.org/FAQs/faqusmle.htm

I'm talking about COMLEX. That is the DO's board exam, thus my comment "no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest."
 

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While I have so far reserved myself and did not jump into any stupid arguments on this bulletin board, I can't help myself here.

To everyone: This kid OSUdoc is spewing out garbage about FMG's and should be ignored. Try taking the USMLE in a second (or third language) - no wonder there is a lower pass rate. Has nothing to do with ability to do the job well.

To OSU: You should get the recto-oral fistula fixed. I can find a nice FMG surgeon to do the job well.
 

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(nicedream) said:
I'm talking about COMLEX. That is the DO's board exam, thus my comment "no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest."
I am a DO student.

I took the USMLE.

I was referring to the USMLE.
 

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nrosigh said:
While I have so far reserved myself and did not jump into any stupid arguments on this bulletin board, I can't help myself here.

To everyone: This kid OSUdoc is spewing out garbage about FMG's and should be ignored. Try taking the USMLE in a second (or third language) - no wonder there is a lower pass rate. Has nothing to do with ability to do the job well.

To OSU: You should get the recto-oral fistula fixed. I can find a nice FMG surgeon to do the job well.
The problem is that they are trying to practice medicine with the same language confusion, causing a massive variety of problems.

Save the insults. Not only is it a violation of the terms of service, but my information about FMG's comes from hospital staff and physicians, and not my own personal interactions and/or opinions.

This is a widely held opinion, and I am only the "messenger."
 

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OSUdoc08 said:
I am a DO student.

I took the USMLE.

I was referring to the USMLE.
So according to your logic, around 25% of DOs (minimum, since only something like half take the USMLE, and who knows what proportion of the other half would pass it) should NOT be allowed in hospitals because they probably don't know what a spinal cord is.
 

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(nicedream) said:
I'm talking about COMLEX. That is the DO's board exam, thus my comment "no DOs will know if they passed until September at the earliest."
Unfortunately, your comment about "no DOs" was a reference to my post about the USMLE.
 
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