what is your view on noopept/nootropics?

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doc-Oc

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what is your view on noopept/nootropics? especially in canada and the US.
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By nootropics do you mean something like ginko biloba, or do you mean methylphenidate/amphetamine/modafinil?
The former has not actually proven to have an positive or negative effect on concentration, memory, or attention.
The latter is used regularly by high school students, college students and professionals to improve performance.
 
Demosthenes1 said:
By nootropics do you mean something like ginko biloba, or do you mean methylphenidate/amphetamine/modafinil?
The former has not actually proven to have an positive or negative effect on concentration, memory, or attention.
The latter is used regularly by high school students, college students and professionals to improve performance.
Click to expand...
this is something that i recently stumbled on. I was interested in improving memory and cognitive function and i stumbled on noopept. its not FDA approved which worries me but i saw some publications that it can have positive effects (however i dont think these were human trials). i am still in the research phase of this.
 
doc-Oc said:
this is something that i recently stumbled on. I was interested in improving memory and cognitive function and i stumbled on noopept. its not FDA approved which worries me but i saw some publications that it can have positive effects (however i dont think these were human trials). i am still in the research phase of this.
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It's a racetam, they have been shown to improve memory, but I'm not sure to what extent.
Try getting 7-8 hours of sleep, exercising regularly, eating a healthy diet, and drinking lots of water.
Then you start the racetams.
 
Anything developed over the next few centuries will probably only offer modest/marginal improvements in cognition or recall. The brain is incredibly complex and so is cognition. I don't see any panceas being available anytime soon, but I think it's an important and undervalued/underfunded area of research.

I've done a few searches on this (and anti-aging strategies) before and didn't find anything remarkable--certainly nothing poised to hit the market anytime soon. There are several theories and therapeutics in their infancy which were pretty cool though.
 
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anyone know why its not FDA approved in USA/Canada?
 
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My understanding is the FDA exists to protect consumers from products that could harm them or from companies making fraudulent claims. My first guess for why any product is not FDA approved would be because either:
1. damaging side effects have been reported
2. the side-effects are unknown
3. the claims (i.e. this drug makes you "smarter") haven't been evaluated or tested

However, this brings up a good point which is: What is the FDA's policy on drugs that aren't meant to treat a specific illness, but rather just offer some sort of benefit to a consumer. If one designed some sort of performance enhancing drug with negligible side-effects (but that wasn't designed to treat any specific illness), would the FDA sign off on it?

doc-Oc said:
anyone know why its not FDA approved in USA/Canada?
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Lol, no. The FDA only approves drugs that diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent diseases. Improving neurological function in a healthy individual is not one of these, and so the FDA won't approve any of these drugs.
 
I've heard this before, but I did a quick search and couldn't find anything that supports it. I believe their role extends beyond drugs that diagnose, cure, or prevent disease. Even in the section of their website that addresses drug evaluation and research, they claim to oversee things like "antiperspirants." Not sure BO qualifies as a disease. The FDA oversees more than just drug development with clinical application, just not sure how they would respond to performance enhancers as they seem to have an associated stigma. Do you have any sources that back that up?

Have they ever come out with a formal stance on the topic?

SKaminski said:
Lol, no. The FDA only approves drugs that diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent diseases. Improving neurological function in a healthy individual is not one of these, and so the FDA won't approve any of these drugs.
Click to expand...
 
Demosthenes1 said:
It's a racetam, they have been shown to improve memory, but I'm not sure to what extent.
Try getting 7-8 hours of sleep, exercising regularly, eating a healthy diet, and drinking lots of water.
Then you start the racetams.
Click to expand...
Racetams also have a good number of risks if you don't take them right. They have been shown to boost memory to a statistically significant level in studies that utilized them with proper support (they deplete certain neurotransmitter components, so you can't just use a straight racetam without certain other things mixed in). I'm not going into specifics, but I looked into mixing up my own smart drugs and doing a little one man study before scrapping the idea because I've got epilepsy and playing with my brain chemistry for lulz and science probably isn't the best idea.
 
GaiusOctavius said:
I've heard this before, but I did a quick search and couldn't find anything that supports it. I believe their role extends beyond drugs that diagnose, cure, or prevent disease. Even in the section of their website that addresses drug evaluation and research, they claim to oversee things like "antiperspirants." Not sure BO qualifies as a disease. The FDA oversees more than just drug development with clinical application, just not sure how they would respond to performance enhancers as they seem to have an associated stigma. Do you have any sources that back that up?

Have they ever come out with a formal stance on the topic?
Click to expand...


I was getting my information from here, in the second paragraph.
 
Ah okay. So basically the FDA, doesn't evaluate whether a drug is effective, per say. It is the responsibility of the manufacturer to prove that whatever it's selling does what it is advertised to do. Whenever there is a new chemical/biological agent, the manufacturer must prove that it doesn't have side-effects.

So a company could develop miracle "smart" drug, but it would have to prove that it does what it says before they can advertise it as such. The FDA basically just regulates 1. novel chemicals that will be consumed and product labeling (you can't mash up some leaves and say that it cures cancer or will make you a genius unless you prove it according to their standards). Right?

SKaminski said:
I was getting my information from here, in the second paragraph.
Click to expand...
 
After reading a lot of the literature on this stuff on animal models, I decided to try several racetams out a couple years ago. I stopped because of:
-The lack of an commonly agreed upon dosage
-The completely varying and sometimes contradicting user reports
-The cost:benefit ratio (even if what little benefits I were experiencing weren't placebo, they weren't worth the price)
-Unknown side effects
-Lack of trust in the absence of toxic impurities

I'm interested in monitoring the research on these compounds though. I did a tiny bit of bench research on them myself as part of a larger experiment with my PI.
 
Demosthenes1 said:
It's a racetam, they have been shown to improve memory, but I'm not sure to what extent.
Try getting 7-8 hours of sleep, exercising regularly, eating a healthy diet, and drinking lots of water.
Then you start the racetams.
Click to expand...
Honestly i have tried varying methods of improving my memory and concentration but nothing works. I really want to do better in school.
 
Over the past few years, with interruptions I tried different nootropes. I took Modafinil, its variety Adrafinil. I tried Picamilon and Hydrafinil. But the availability of so-so, and the effects were great until he came side-effects. Headache, weakness, change of moods. Now I began to take limitless forte and also works fine, but it took until trial, so I do not know what the side effects.
 
are there any nootropics that are FDA approved?
 
CliveStaples said:
At a glance, I thought this was a thread about playing neopets. I now wish that it had been.
Click to expand...

I miss neopets.

Mad Jack said:
Racetams also have a good number of risks if you don't take them right. They have been shown to boost memory to a statistically significant level in studies that utilized them with proper support (they deplete certain neurotransmitter components, so you can't just use a straight racetam without certain other things mixed in). I'm not going into specifics, but I looked into mixing up my own smart drugs and doing a little one man study before scrapping the idea because I've got epilepsy and playing with my brain chemistry for lulz and science probably isn't the best idea.
Click to expand...

The epilepsy factor for me is what worries me as well. If I want to have a seizure, I can have my neurologist change my medications again.

I do have some nootropics, but I haven't really tried anything because I need to actually start sleeping first!
 
do you know which would be more effective? noopept or modafinil?
 
doc-Oc said:
do you know which would be more effective? noopept or modafinil?
Click to expand...

I've had really good history with a 50-50 mix coke and meth. Study for days but make sure you have a couple days to sleep it off after aka only in a pinch like right before an exam.

Hope this helps!
 
TBV said:
I've had really good history with a 50-50 mix coke and meth. Study for days but make sure you have a couple days to sleep it off after aka only in a pinch like right before an exam.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

There is a prescription version of methamphetamine called desoxyn, used for severe cases of ADHD/ADD. And cocaine is a schedule 2 medication, but mostly used (where I work) as an anesthetic in eye surgeries.
 
Penguin Fan said:
There is a prescription version of methamphetamine called desoxyn, used for severe cases of ADHD/ADD. And cocaine is a schedule 2 medication, but mostly used (where I work) as an anesthetic in eye surgeries.
Click to expand...

You save on copay if you just get the good stuff from my guy though
 
Dont need it. My plan for next semester is to stock up on 15o five hour energy shots. Thats all the neurostimulation Ill be needing.
Plus, dont forget that most of those amphetamine type drugs will decrease the size of your frontal lobe over time which will lead to dementia and psychiatric disorders.
 
Dr.PhoenixMD said:
Dont need it. My plan for next semester is to stock up on 15o five hour energy shots. Thats all the neurostimulation Ill be needing.
Plus, dont forget that most of those amphetamine type drugs will decrease the size of your frontal lobe over time which will lead to dementia and psychiatric disorders.
Click to expand...
Source on that second part?
 
SKaminski said:
Source on that second part?
Click to expand...
This is common knowledge and you should learn how to use google. but since you are incapable here you go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851068/
literally the first result of a google search and there are many more studies to prove this. This is actually in the STEP book too, I believe.
I thought psychology was a required course for premeds. They mention this in that course too.
 
Dr.PhoenixMD said:
This is common knowledge and you should learn how to use google. but since you are incapable here you go: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851068/
literally the first result of a google search and there are many more studies to prove this. This is actually in the STEP book too, I believe.
I thought psychology was a required course for premeds. They mention this in that course too.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That was a pretty interested read! However, i'm still curious. While reading the article though, i didnt see them define "abuse". Are these individuals who were meth addicts? Or are the people who take ritalin twice a day?
 
doc-Oc said:
do you know which would be more effective? noopept or modafinil?
Click to expand...

I have my suspicions as to which I would personally try for if I didn't have to worry about epilepsy, but if I were you, I would ask your doctor as none of us are actually qualified to give medical advice.
 
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