What Makes a Great Top-Tier Applicant?

[BlueDemForever]

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From the threads I have read on here, a few things have stood out to me as being essential to anyone who is aiming to get into a top 10 medical school. Here is a list of what I think is the golden standard:

1. A well-rounded college cirriculum (including 2 years of a foreign language and social sciences courses) with the general prerequisites (one year of general chemistry with lab, one year of biology with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of physics with lab, one year of expository writing, one semester of calculus, one semester of statistics, one semester of psychology, one semester of sociology, and one semester of biochemistry) completed and a few higher level science classes even if you are not a science major. If you go to a top-tier school, you should be in the top 10% of your school (with a 3.85+ cGPA and a 3.9+ sGPA) but if you attend a large public university, you need to be at or near the top of your class (with a 3.95+ cGPA and a 4.0+ sGPA).

2. A 52+ (39+ old) MCAT for the MD program and a 56+ MCAT (42+ old) for the MD/PhD.

3. 2 years (on a weekly basis) of scientific research that doesn't have to be medical but should show a true passion for the subject before your senior year, a couple publications, and possibly a first-name authorship on a paper.

4. 2 years (on a weekly basis) of clinical experience such as volunteering in a hospital (with direct patient contact) and shadowing for at least a year prior to your senior year.

5. 2-3 summers (depending on whether or not you put your junior summer plans on your application) that have been well-spent completing a competitive scientific internship (NIH, Mayo, AMGEN, etc.), volunteering in a foreign country, and/or researching at your own college.

6. 3-5 excellent recommendations from science professors, internship supervisors, doctors whom you shadowed, and/or your school pre-med committee that reflect on a stellar academic/work record and a great relationship.

7. Essays that reflect on a unique college experience, inspiring personal struggles, a passion for medicine not only on the scientific side but also in the anthropic sense, a smart hint at a medical specialty, and show that the author is mature enough and both emotionally and mentally ready for medical school.

8. An application that conveys 3 years (on a weekly basis) of strong involvement in 5-6 clubs (pre-med society, debate, school newspaper, cultural clubs, a politics club, student government, etc.), some sort of physical/athletic activity (Division 1 is not for everyone so alternatives are intramural sports, table tennis, fencing, martial arts, etc.), and leadership in any 2-3 clubs (founder, president, VP, or Secretary).

9. 2 years of work experience in a bookstore, a concession stand, a student newspaper, a gift shop, etc. to show by balancing academics with other obligations and by separating intellectual acticities from a job done simply to earn money that your desire for medicine goes beyond financial interest.

10. If and when you get an interview, allow a true person to emerge from the papers who has more than impressive stats. Be confident, humble, and most of all interested in the school and the interviewer himself. Show you have some sort of unique personal talent (playing an instrument, speaking a foreign language, varsity athletics, etc.) and a set of fun leisurely activities (flying a plane, following sports or politics, dancing, singing, painting, writing short stories, etc.) that will make you fit in very well with your peers both inside the classroom and in non-school activities. Make the interviewer want you badly at his/her institution or at least really like you personally.

This list is my personal belief of the combination of things what will give you an excellent chance to get into one or more top 10 medical schools. Please give your opinion on it as well as other things thay can help.

 

[nabilesmail]

A non-trad with amazing stats 3.8+++ 37+++,

this allows for a lot of breath and EC's to accompany great stats

 

[IniestaDeMiVida]

Yup, nontrads have a lot more time to become incredible candidates. I may be biased as a nontrad, but I think some can have WAY more impressive feats than simply completing undergrad with good grades. Think extensive research, americorp, peace corp, teach for america, clinical professional experience, etc...

 

[yellowfish]

1) Great scores
2) Well-developed and unique extracurriculars
3) *Glowing* letters of recommendation
4) Interviews well
5) Essays aren't terrible
6) Luck (getting an interviewer you click with, not going up for admission right after someone with a very similar application, etc. etc.)

 

[erutha95]

A non-trad with amazing stats 3.8+++ 37+++,

this allows for a lot of breath and EC's to accompany great stats

IMO a 37 does not make one a great applicant at top tier schools, merely above average.

3.8+, preferably from a top tier undergrad (Ivy or elite LAC), 40+, multiple years of research with multiple publications, glowing recommendations, good social/interview skills, a unique and/or disadvantaged upbringing, and a personal statement that ties it all together into a coherent story. A person with most or all of these attributes would represent a great applicant that has the potential to get multiple top 10 acceptances.

Non-trads definitely have an advantage, both because they have time to do meaningful research, and because an extra couple of years of maturation makes a big difference for the personal statement and interview skills.

 

[cookiemonsters]

3.9/37+, military service, research w/publication, URM = adcom pants soaked

 

[LaughingMan]

1) great scores
2) well-developed and unique extracurriculars
3) *glowing* letters of recommendation
4) interviews well
5) essays aren't terrible
6) luck (getting an interviewer you click with, not going up for admission right after someone with a very similar application, etc. Etc.)

+1

 

[Geebeejay]

1. Good at scratch tickets
2. Good at getting struck by lightning

 

[sunflower18]

1. A well-rounded college cirriculum (including 2 years of a foreign language and social sciences courses) with the general prerequisites (one year of general chemistry with lab, one year of biology with lab, one year of organic chemistry with lab, one year of physics with lab, one year of expisitory writing, one semester of calculus, one semester of statistics, one semester of psychology, one semester of sociology, and one semester of biochemistry) completed and a few higher level science classes even if you are not a science major. If you go to a top-tier school, you should be in the top 10% of your school (with a 3.85+ cGPA and a 3.9+ sGPA) but if you attend a large public university, you need to be at or near the top of your class (with a 3.95+ cGPA and a 4.0+ sGPA).

Those aren't the only two kinds of universities/colleges...

 

[Pons Asinorum]

If only I had a nickel for every time this thread was created and replied to with the same info, I would graduate debt-free. Sigh...Usually a solid "4.0/40 derp" gets the thread ended. Not trying to offend, OP, you put some thought into that opening piece, but it should be self-evident if you spend more than 15 minutes sniffing around the pre-allo boards what would make a "great" applicant.

 

[aspiring20]

Great top tier applicant?

Here's my take:

-3.8+ GPA, 36+ MCAT
-2+ years of solid research, preferably with a poster/presentation, publication, and/or senior honors thesis
-2+ years of clinical experience (hospital volunteer and/or other types of activities)
-shadowing (preferably a fairly substantial amount)
-2+ years of consistent community service (preferably with a leadership role)
-some international experience (could be mission trips, study abroad, volunteer, etc.)
-some other significant extra-curricular activity (tutor, TA, club leadership, etc.)
-some form of paid employment (research, restaurant job, library job, etc.)
-a hook/"unique" factor (artistic endeavor, musical instrument, breeding pet ball pythons, etc.)

additionally,
-strong letters of recommendation
-good personal statement/secondary essays
-good personal/interview skills

 

[lollerskater]

I don't know if it really takes that much luck.. other than getting a 40+ mcat score, which might take a bit of luck

some of the most successful applicants on SDN this year joined 2+ years ago and had some of the most cookie-cutter premed EC's possible. Despite all the nonsense about holistic admissions, it's basically a formula..

 

[cest la vie]

Best applicant I can think of:

Non-trad 30+ year old
4.0 c/sGPA from MIT or JHU (or equally difficult school) - double major in BME and art history with minor in music
45T MCAT - maybe 44S because a 45T would be highly suspect
African American
Disadvantaged - was born into homeless family and has unique life story
Laboratory and clinical research for 4+ years with numerous 1st author publications, poster presentations
Incredible letters from big-wig professors and credible non-science individuals
2000 hrs of community service/shadowing/medical related experiences
Tutor teach disadvantaged kids in foreign country
Concert pianist in Carnegie Hall
Teach for america
Served in military
Has start-up engineering company and owns multiple patents
Excellent essays
Handsome/beautiful, well-groomed, down-to-earth and makes a great impression and interviews well
etc...

Guaranteed to get into every school who will not reject him/her purely because they think he/she would not matriculate at their lowly school and gets full scholarships from all schools that offer them.

 

[aspiring20]

Best applicant I can think of:

Non-trad 30+ year old
4.0 c/sGPA from MIT or JHU (or equally difficult school) - double major in BME and art history with minor in music
45T MCAT - maybe 44S because a 45T would be highly suspect
African American
Disadvantaged - was born into homeless family and has unique life story
Laboratory and clinical research for 4+ years with numerous 1st author publications, poster presentations
Incredible letters from big-wig professors and credible non-science individuals
2000 hrs of community service/shadowing/medical related experiences
Tutor teach disadvantaged kids in foreign country
Concert pianist in Carnegie Hall
Teach for america
Served in military
Has start-up engineering company and owns multiple patents
Excellent essays
Handsome/beautiful, well-groomed, down-to-earth and makes a great impression and interviews well
etc...

Guaranteed to get into every school who will not reject him/her purely because they think he/she would not matriculate at their lowly school and gets full scholarships from all schools that offer them.

that's some impressive stuff...

 

[syoung]

+1 Gosh I wish I were like him...

 

[Planes2Doc]

 

[Planes2Doc]

Oh nevermind, I take that back. This is pretty much everyone on this site.

 

[aspiring20]

Oh nevermind, I take that back. This is pretty much everyone on this site.

haha i love this bold statement.

and btw planes2doc, i really enjoy your no-nonsense, no-idealism, real talk posts. good stuff.

 

[Planes2Doc]

haha i love this bold statement.

and btw planes2doc, i really enjoy your no-nonsense, no-idealism, real talk posts. good stuff.

Thanks! I appreciate it! 🙂 I think that given the amount of influence SDN has on people, it can definitely be used as a movement for change. I think we can help solve the problems with the healthcare system if we start approaching it realistically starting with pre-meds, and then moving to medical students.

By the way, in response to this thread, the people you perceive as the greatest top-tier applicants might translate into crap physicians. This is exactly why the process is so broken. 👎

 

[aspiring20]

Thanks! I appreciate it! 🙂 I think that given the amount of influence SDN has on people, it can definitely be used as a movement for change. I think we can help solve the problems with the healthcare system if we start approaching it realistically starting with pre-meds, and then moving to medical students.

By the way, in response to this thread, the people you perceive as the greatest top-tier applicants might translate into crap physicians. This is exactly why the process is so broken. 👎

definitely agree to a large extent, but i also think that the system is never going to change substantially, if at all. the best i can do, as an applicant, is to do everything i can to provide an application that adcoms will accept. fortunately, i am not entirely a cookie cutter applicant, so that should be in my favor.

 

[Almost7Famous]

Looking at that list makes me want to cry.

 

[aspiring20]

Looking at that list makes me want to cry.

i understand why you feel this way, and i share similar sentiments as well. however, this is what you have to do to get in, and there's little, if anything, we can do about it.

 

[Planes2Doc]

i understand why you feel this way, and i share similar sentiments as well. however, this is what you have to do to get in, and there's little, if anything, we can do about it.

People can do or not do a variety of things to get in. When you're sitting in a medical school class proud of a laundry-list full of ECs you did in college, you might find out that the person sitting next to you volunteered in a hospital ED for only four hours per week, and started a year and a half before applying. If you weren't genuinely enjoying what you did as a pre-med, it will suck, because all ECs for the exception of research publications will be completely meaningless once you step foot into medical school.

The medical school admissions process is so frustratingly unique that it places so much emphasis on arbitrary things that will not matter. For instance, any other job or graduate school will look at past work experience whether it is paid or not, the same way. But with medical school admissions, you must have done free labor or volunteering, whichever you'd like to call it, or you will risk not getting in. They differentiate between such work experiences.

So while pre-meds are making such a huge deal about stats and ECs, bragging about their high MCAT score or "killer volunteer" experiences, they fail to realize that the most important person won't give two ***** about these things. And who is this person?

Correct! The PATIENT! They aren't going to care about your GPA, MCAT score, or the number of ECs you had and the number of hours you spent in a hospital ED volunteering, ladling soup in a soup kitchen, or tutoring underprivileged children. They will care about your skills as a physician and how you are able to treat them. If you're incompetent as a physician, and are unable to properly treatment, then I doubt they will care whatsoever about the number of underprivileged children you helped to tutor. If you're incompetent, then a high GPA, 40+ MCAT score, and "killer" ECs aren't going to save your ass, because the only people that matter won't care about it at all.

This is what's so wrong with medical school admissions and what it forces pre-meds to strive for. There is way too much emphasis placed on the intermediate product, and not the final product. This is equivalent to a computer review site writing a product review on a MacBook Pro, but reviewing the motherboard before the rest of the components were put in and it became a full computer. This is equivalent to a bodybuilding review site reviewing a whey protein powder based on the taste of the milk that went into the recipe. This is equivalent to giving a student a final grade based on one quiz score.

As you can see, it's not possible to judge a final product based on an intermediate that ends up being a small part of the pie. But that's what happens here. People devote their whole lives to doing everything other than the one thing that matters, being a good physician. I fail to see how stats (well this probably matters more), volunteering, entry-level clinical work, or other things are going to affect you when you're an actual physician.

And that's what I love about pre-meds. They spend all of college trying to become the next Mother Teresa or work as EMTs or techs, where these things are close to irrelevant when it comes to actually being a doctor.

 

[Bea5T]

i understand why you feel this way, and i share similar sentiments as well. however, this is what you have to do to get in, and there's little, if anything, we can do about it.

If this was true we'd have a severe shortage of doctors in this country.

 

[syoung]

People can do or not do a variety of things to get in. When you're sitting in a medical school class proud of a laundry-list full of ECs you did in college, you might find out that the person sitting next to you volunteered in a hospital ED for only four hours per week, and started a year and a half before applying. If you weren't genuinely enjoying what you did as a pre-med, it will suck, because all ECs for the exception of research publications will be completely meaningless once you step foot into medical school.

The medical school admissions process is so frustratingly unique that it places so much emphasis on arbitrary things that will not matter. For instance, any other job or graduate school will look at past work experience whether it is paid or not, the same way. But with medical school admissions, you must have done free labor or volunteering, whichever you'd like to call it, or you will risk not getting in. They differentiate between such work experiences.

So while pre-meds are making such a huge deal about stats and ECs, bragging about their high MCAT score or "killer volunteer" experiences, they fail to realize that the most important person won't give two ***** about these things. And who is this person?

Correct! The PATIENT! They aren't going to care about your GPA, MCAT score, or the number of ECs you had and the number of hours you spent in a hospital ED volunteering, ladling soup in a soup kitchen, or tutoring underprivileged children. They will care about your skills as a physician and how you are able to treat them. If you're incompetent as a physician, and are unable to properly treatment, then I doubt they will care whatsoever about the number of underprivileged children you helped to tutor. If you're incompetent, then a high GPA, 40+ MCAT score, and "killer" ECs aren't going to save your ass, because the only people that matter won't care about it at all.

This is what's so wrong with medical school admissions and what it forces pre-meds to strive for. There is way too much emphasis placed on the intermediate product, and not the final product. This is equivalent to a computer review site writing a product review on a MacBook Pro, but reviewing the motherboard before the rest of the components were put in and it became a full computer. This is equivalent to a bodybuilding review site reviewing a whey protein powder based on the taste of the milk that went into the recipe. This is equivalent to giving a student a final grade based on one quiz score.

As you can see, it's not possible to judge a final product based on an intermediate that ends up being a small part of the pie. But that's what happens here. People devote their whole lives to doing everything other than the one thing that matters, being a good physician. I fail to see how stats (well this probably matters more), volunteering, entry-level clinical work, or other things are going to affect you when you're an actual physician.

And that's what I love about pre-meds. They spend all of college trying to become the next Mother Teresa or work as EMTs or techs, where these things are close to irrelevant when it comes to actually being a doctor.

👍

 

[aspiring20]

If this was true we'd have a severe shortage of doctors in this country.

i certainly hope so...but it seems everyone on SDN and at my alma matter have ground breaking ECs and 36+ MCAT scores. and many struggle off the waitlist at the end of July...and the process gets harder and harder each year, soon topping 50k+ applicants.

the "top applicant" characteristics are soon becoming the "bare minimum" standard for acceptance.

 

[karafox]

People can do or not do a variety of things to get in. When you're sitting in a medical school class proud of a laundry-list full of ECs you did in college, you might find out that the person sitting next to you volunteered in a hospital ED for only four hours per week, and started a year and a half before applying. If you weren't genuinely enjoying what you did as a pre-med, it will suck, because all ECs for the exception of research publications will be completely meaningless once you step foot into medical school.

The medical school admissions process is so frustratingly unique that it places so much emphasis on arbitrary things that will not matter. For instance, any other job or graduate school will look at past work experience whether it is paid or not, the same way. But with medical school admissions, you must have done free labor or volunteering, whichever you'd like to call it, or you will risk not getting in. They differentiate between such work experiences.

So while pre-meds are making such a huge deal about stats and ECs, bragging about their high MCAT score or "killer volunteer" experiences, they fail to realize that the most important person won't give two ***** about these things. And who is this person?

Correct! The PATIENT! They aren't going to care about your GPA, MCAT score, or the number of ECs you had and the number of hours you spent in a hospital ED volunteering, ladling soup in a soup kitchen, or tutoring underprivileged children. They will care about your skills as a physician and how you are able to treat them. If you're incompetent as a physician, and are unable to properly treatment, then I doubt they will care whatsoever about the number of underprivileged children you helped to tutor. If you're incompetent, then a high GPA, 40+ MCAT score, and "killer" ECs aren't going to save your ass, because the only people that matter won't care about it at all.

This is what's so wrong with medical school admissions and what it forces pre-meds to strive for. There is way too much emphasis placed on the intermediate product, and not the final product. This is equivalent to a computer review site writing a product review on a MacBook Pro, but reviewing the motherboard before the rest of the components were put in and it became a full computer. This is equivalent to a bodybuilding review site reviewing a whey protein powder based on the taste of the milk that went into the recipe. This is equivalent to giving a student a final grade based on one quiz score.

As you can see, it's not possible to judge a final product based on an intermediate that ends up being a small part of the pie. But that's what happens here. People devote their whole lives to doing everything other than the one thing that matters, being a good physician. I fail to see how stats (well this probably matters more), volunteering, entry-level clinical work, or other things are going to affect you when you're an actual physician.

And that's what I love about pre-meds. They spend all of college trying to become the next Mother Teresa or work as EMTs or techs, where these things are close to irrelevant when it comes to actually being a doctor.

Perhaps in some aspects you're on to something, but I wouldn't think too black and white. There needs to be certain criteria established--what are the alternatives to assess what makes a good candidate?

The fact that pre-meds have to jump hurdles and hoops to get to where they are should mean something--dedicated, hardworking--their good GPA/MCAT also reiterates this. They may be reduced to automatons, but that's what the interview is designed for, right? Weed out those who have no social skills.

 

[mcloaf]

Really OP? 42+ to be a great MD/PhD applicant? Pre-allo is always good for a laugh.

 

[aspiring20]

Really OP? 42+ to be a great MD/PhD applicant? Pre-allo is always good for a laugh.

yeah i know...you need a minimum of a 44. /end sarcasm

but having said that...it is getting harder and harder. and some people wont have a ghost of a chance (cough geographic region cough) without a 36+.

 

[red doctober]

They need to show this during orientation at top-10 schools. Needless to say, I think it'd be good for a few laughs.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Perhaps in some aspects you're on to something, but I wouldn't think too black and white. There needs to be certain criteria established--what are the alternatives to assess what makes a good candidate?

The fact that pre-meds have to jump hurdles and hoops to get to where they are should mean something--dedicated, hardworking--their good GPA/MCAT also reiterates this. They may be reduced to automatons, but that's what the interview is designed for, right? Weed out those who have no social skills.

Yes correct, they are being reduced to automatons, and at the same time creating a new baseline. I bet if you send an "average" SDN applicant back into time a few decades ago, he or she would be in such high demand by medical schools that they would probably end up fighting each other to get the applicant!

I guess the interview is supposed to figure out who the applicant really is, but what happens when all of this stuff becomes a new baseline? I think it's kind of weird that if you meet someone outside the pre-med world who spends a lot of time volunteering and helping others, you admire them and would compliment them on the great things they do for their community. On the contrary, with pre-meds, you ask them what ECs they are doing under the assumption that they do them. You are shocked if you find out that they aren't volunteering, and you also are able to judge their volunteer experiences by some arbitrary factor which has absolutely nothing to do with how they actually help people. Not once have I heard a pre-med asking how they can help more people, instead they ask how they can beef up their ECs.

So what's the point if you have a baseline then? You have no idea if anyone is doing something because they actually wanted to do it, and downplay the achievements of others who may have done it in the first place. All this does is create a more stressful and competitive environment for pre-meds. It's gotten to the point where people give up all of college (which is supposed to be the best time of their lives) to volunteer for a handful of organizations, and spend many hours working an entry-level clinical job that has nothing to do with being a doctor.

Everything has consequences, and I think ADCOMs are blind to this. What happens when you had an incredibly stressful time in college, and then enter medical school which is even more stressful? I sense this might be a contributing factor to medical student and physician burnout, as well as the complaints patients have about today's physicians in practice.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Not once have I heard a pre-med asking how they can help more people, instead they ask how they can beef up their ECs.

This line = win.

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

39 Mcat for top 10 medical school? Maybe if you want a string of top 10 acceptances. That score is hardly necessary for an applicant to have a shot at a top 10....... Along with everything else you listed.

 

[aspiring20]

39 Mcat for top 10 medical school? Maybe if you want a string of top 10 acceptances. That score is hardly necessary for an applicant to have a shot at a top 10....... Along with everything else you listed.

agreed.

but that's only if everything else is spot on.

 

[Narmerguy]

39 Mcat for top 10 medical school? Maybe if you want a string of top 10 acceptances. That score is hardly necessary for an applicant to have a shot at a top 10....... Along with everything else you listed.

Isn't the entire premise of the thread to make an all-star applicant? I agree that it's unnecessary, but if you're trying to design an all-star applicant, you might as well give them a 45. That's part of the reason these threads aren't that useful, it's easy to create the holy grail of all applications, but that doesn't tell you what an actual sensible person needs to be competitive for top schools.

 

[Geebeejay]

People can do or not do a variety of things to get in. When you're sitting in a medical school class proud of a laundry-list full of ECs you did in college, you might find out that the person sitting next to you volunteered in a hospital ED for only four hours per week, and started a year and a half before applying. If you weren't genuinely enjoying what you did as a pre-med, it will suck, because all ECs for the exception of research publications will be completely meaningless once you step foot into medical school.

The medical school admissions process is so frustratingly unique that it places so much emphasis on arbitrary things that will not matter. For instance, any other job or graduate school will look at past work experience whether it is paid or not, the same way. But with medical school admissions, you must have done free labor or volunteering, whichever you'd like to call it, or you will risk not getting in. They differentiate between such work experiences.

So while pre-meds are making such a huge deal about stats and ECs, bragging about their high MCAT score or "killer volunteer" experiences, they fail to realize that the most important person won't give two ***** about these things. And who is this person?

Correct! The PATIENT! They aren't going to care about your GPA, MCAT score, or the number of ECs you had and the number of hours you spent in a hospital ED volunteering, ladling soup in a soup kitchen, or tutoring underprivileged children. They will care about your skills as a physician and how you are able to treat them. If you're incompetent as a physician, and are unable to properly treatment, then I doubt they will care whatsoever about the number of underprivileged children you helped to tutor. If you're incompetent, then a high GPA, 40+ MCAT score, and "killer" ECs aren't going to save your ass, because the only people that matter won't care about it at all.

This is what's so wrong with medical school admissions and what it forces pre-meds to strive for. There is way too much emphasis placed on the intermediate product, and not the final product. This is equivalent to a computer review site writing a product review on a MacBook Pro, but reviewing the motherboard before the rest of the components were put in and it became a full computer. This is equivalent to a bodybuilding review site reviewing a whey protein powder based on the taste of the milk that went into the recipe. This is equivalent to giving a student a final grade based on one quiz score.

As you can see, it's not possible to judge a final product based on an intermediate that ends up being a small part of the pie. But that's what happens here. People devote their whole lives to doing everything other than the one thing that matters, being a good physician. I fail to see how stats (well this probably matters more), volunteering, entry-level clinical work, or other things are going to affect you when you're an actual physician.

And that's what I love about pre-meds. They spend all of college trying to become the next Mother Teresa or work as EMTs or techs, where these things are close to irrelevant when it comes to actually being a doctor.

👍 I agree with all this except for the last part. Yes you're right that no one will care if I was an EMT or Tech 8 years from now, but I think they are far from irrelevant in my development and growth as a physician.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Isn't the entire premise of the thread to make an all-star applicant? I agree that it's unnecessary, but if you're trying to design an all-star applicant, you might as well give them a 45. That's part of the reason these threads aren't that useful, it's easy to create the holy grail of all applications, but that doesn't tell you what an actual sensible person needs to be competitive for top schools.

This should theoretically end the thread. It won't.

 

[Planes2Doc]

definitely agree to a large extent, but i also think that the system is never going to change substantially, if at all. the best i can do, as an applicant, is to do everything i can to provide an application that adcoms will accept. fortunately, i am not entirely a cookie cutter applicant, so that should be in my favor.

I really hope that things do change, and I am optimistic that they will. This is becoming more and more realistic given the changes taking place in our healthcare system. I think medical school admissions might actually be a bubble, and if it bursts, things will change dramatically.

I also thought of a pretty good analogy to this, so here goes: When I was much younger, I remember driving by car dealerships. They were usually extremely decorated with balloons and tons of other decorations all over the place. According to my cousin who is a partner at a large dealership, this is to draw in customers by making it look like an "event is going on." But here's the issue, despite dealership decorations becoming more and more extravagant, the more and more we expected them to look like this, and thus they ended up disappearing into the background. So when you drove by, you wouldn't even think twice about it because you associated car dealerships with enormous amounts of decorations. You wouldn't think an event is going on, and it would simply disappear into the background. It probably got to the point where even a giant inflatable gorilla wouldn't catch anyone's attention.

Therefore, when you drive by dealerships today, you usually notice minimal if any decorations. The last time I passed by a few used car lots, they had balloons attached to a few cars up front, and most of them were nearly deflated.

I think the same thing applies to medical school applicants. People have been picking up more and more activities, and despite this, we are unfazed by an applicant's huge list of ECs. Things that stick out are developing a cheap ultra-sensitive test for pancreatic cancer as a teenager, not volunteering for hundreds of hours over a few different organizations. It's getting so hard to impress ADCOMs that it might hopefully go the way of car dealerships... Going from massive lists of ECs to hopefully close to nothing at all. Maybe at this point the people who post in EC threads can finally follow their own advice. Do what you're passionate about. The things people are usually passionate about are usually not the things you do to get into medical school. The things people are usually passionate about are things they genuinely enjoy, and would do everyday regardless of any other factor. The giant facade pre-meds put up is the absolute opposite of this.

 

[DNAdude120]

I think the same thing applies to medical school applicants. People have been picking up more and more activities, and despite this, we are unfazed by an applicant's huge list of ECs. Things that stick out are developing a cheap ultra-sensitive test for pancreatic cancer as a teenager, not volunteering for hundreds of hours over a few different organizations. It's getting so hard to impress ADCOMs that it might hopefully go the way of car dealerships... Going from massive lists of ECs to hopefully close to nothing at all. Maybe at this point the people who post in EC threads can finally follow their own advice. Do what you're passionate about. The things people are usually passionate about are usually not the things you do to get into medical school. The things people are usually passionate about are things they genuinely enjoy, and would do everyday regardless of any other factor. The giant facade pre-meds put up is the absolute opposite of this.

This. Finding something your passionate about and getting heavily involved with it, I think, matters far more than if you have each of those "boxes" checked off.

 

[Planes2Doc]

This. Finding something your passionate about and getting heavily involved with it, I think, matters far more than if you have each of those "boxes" checked off.

But it's a problem when what you're passionate about isn't exactly what the ADCOMs want you to be passionate about.

 

[aspiring20]

But it's a problem when what you're passionate about isn't exactly what the ADCOMs want you to be passionate about.

EXACTLY. you hit it squarely on the head

when adcoms subconsciously expect a certain checklist of cookie-cutter activities, and you dont have them, then that's a problem.

if you have a passion that's not related to medicine, and you spend a lot of time on it....some adcoms are gonna raise eyebrows.

 

[Planes2Doc]

EXACTLY. you hit it squarely on the head

when adcoms subconsciously expect a certain checklist of cookie-cutter activities, and you dont have them, then that's a problem.

if you have a passion that's not related to medicine, and you spend a lot of time on it....some adcoms are gonna raise eyebrows.

Well they won't raise brows as long as your pretended... I mean were passionate about those things they want you to be passionate about as well. 😉

 

[aspiring20]

Well they won't raise brows as long as your pretended... I mean were passionate about those things they want you to be passionate about as well. 😉

yup. that's why a combination of "traditional" ECs and "unique" non-medical activities is the way to go.

 

[BlueDemForever]

Yes, I am trying to design a star applicant who is not just competitive but can safely expect acceptances from at least a few top 10 med schools (not all 10 b/c of the randomness of the interviewer). Please don't mock me or delve into side conversations; just answer the original post and try to add to this star applicant.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Yes, I am trying to design a star applicant who is not just competitive but can safely expect acceptances from at least a few top 10 med schools (not all 10 b/c of the randomness of the interviewer). Please don't mock me or delve into side conversations; just answer the original post and try to add to this star applicant.

The applicant you described in the OP will certainly get interviews at most of the top 10 med schools. Interview performance is a variable that will affect turning those into acceptances. You, sorry, the imaginary applicant can certainly expect some acceptances. They just need to achieve/continue the initial list.

 

[UrbanRiver]

1. Good at scratch tickets
2. Good at getting struck by lightning

Lollllllll

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[Planes2Doc]

yup. that's why a combination of "traditional" ECs and "unique" non-medical activities is the way to go.

And then the cycle continues... You can do that one thing you enjoy, but once you throw in those ADCOM-approved activities on top of that, you have the very same situation. Just some people are lucky because they get an acceptance with minimal ECs that they didn't want to do in the first place. Therefore they were able to spend more time doing things they are passionate about, which of course would seem counter-intuitive to SDN pre-meds. 😛

 

[aspiring20]

And then the cycle continues... You can do that one thing you enjoy, but once you throw in those ADCOM-approved activities on top of that, you have the very same situation. Just some people are lucky because they get an acceptance with minimal ECs that they didn't want to do in the first place. Therefore they were able to spend more time doing things they are passionate about, which of course would seem counter-intuitive to SDN pre-meds. 😛

i am a bit confused. are you saying it's not particularly advantageous to have a mix of traditional ECs AND unique activities out of passion? shouldn't that be a sizeable plus factor?

 

[sunflower18]

And then the cycle continues... You can do that one thing you enjoy, but once you throw in those ADCOM-approved activities on top of that, you have the very same situation. Just some people are lucky because they get an acceptance with minimal ECs that they didn't want to do in the first place. Therefore they were able to spend more time doing things they are passionate about, which of course would seem counter-intuitive to SDN pre-meds. 😛

Are you saying that it is very unlikely that many applicants are passionate about getting clinical exposure, research, teaching/tutoring, etc? Because I don't think that's the case, nor should it be. On the other hand, I feel very frustrated that it seems I must have unique passions and hobbies to stand out. I am passionate about medicine -- that's why I want to pursue it as a career. So, naturally, I WANT to spend my time in a hospital. Yet that makes me look like a cookie cutter, and makes people point fingers and say I'm not following my passions. But I am. I don't feel like it's fair to expect me to have fabulously unique outside interests. I am preparing for a medical career. Why is it not enough that I engage in medical activities that I genuinely love and enjoy?

 

[Planes2Doc]

i am a bit confused. are you saying it's not particularly advantageous to have a mix of traditional ECs AND unique activities out of passion? shouldn't that be a sizeable plus factor?

Oh wait, I meant to say that no matter what you'll end up doing a bunch of stuff you don't want to do, so there's no way around it. But yes, it is "good" to have a mix of activities.

Also the word "unique" should be used carefully. 🙄