What makes for HAPPY vet students?

[light10]

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Thought the winter break and the reappearance of 2014ers and 2013ers from their study caves might make this a good time to ask this question: At an institutional level, what makes certain vet schools have happier/more satisfied students? We know vet school can be a long hard slog of learning, and certainly different individuals react differently, but I'm sure there are things at each school that help or hurt the general morale of students. Curriculum set up, scheduling of exams, amount of time in class, student support services, attitude of the profs, physical location, how they select a class (heavy emphasis on numbers vs experience/interview) etc.

Perhaps another way to phrase my question: If an vet school administrator came to you and said "we'd like to make vet students more satisfied with our program without diminishing the academic rigor" what would you suggest they try, or continue? What works for you? Do you think students are your school are generally satisfied?

 

[dyachei]

Thought the winter break and the reappearance of 2014ers and 2013ers from their study caves might make this a good time to ask this question: At an institutional level, what makes certain vet schools have happier/more satisfied students? We know vet school can be a long hard slog of learning, and certainly different individuals react differently, but I'm sure there are things at each school that help or hurt the general morale of students. Curriculum set up, scheduling of exams, amount of time in class, student support services, attitude of the profs, physical location, how they select a class (heavy emphasis on numbers vs experience/interview) etc.

Perhaps another way to phrase my question: If an vet school administrator came to you and said "we'd like to make vet students more satisfied with our program without diminishing the academic rigor" what would you suggest they try, or continue? What works for you? Do you think students are your school are generally satisfied?

The classes that people dislike the most here are the ones where teachers read off the powerpoints and have multiple multiple choice questions on tests. I would really rather write essays than deal with all of the above, none of the above, or all of the above except, etc. And I think it hurts morale here. Students stop going to class because they think it is sort of a crapshoot anyway.

I also think being treated like adults goes a long way. There are certain instances where that is forgotten (I'm thinking diversity seminar here) and I wish they would watch that better.

I guess what I'm saying is quality of lecturers and their tests is important to me and the way that students are treated by faculty and staff (student support kind of fills this category).

 

[skittles12]

I agree with everything dyachei said, although I don't dislike multiple choice exams so much. However, reading off of powerpoints that are posted online is definitely not conducive to learning for me. Why should I go to class to hear something that I could read myself in half the time?

Being treated like an adult is also important, I think. (*cough* diversity seminar again *cough*) We really are all adults here, and I think that being taught is such a matter really makes things easier and more enjoyable.

 

[Braki]

Definitely the quality of the teachers. We have one professor who, although he is a great and funny guy, he is just... not a good teacher. His notes don't make sense, a lot of times you have to copy something down but he keeps talking so you miss everything he's saying, but despite this, he ends up teaching a very significant chunk of our physiology course. He also used to teach 5 histology lectures (to give our histo prof a break from teaching, since one prof is expected to have about 45 lectures and he has about 70), but halfway through his series of lectures the class apparently rioted and went to admin and made him stop teaching histo because it was just so bad.

We have one other professor who has absolutely zero respect for us as individuals. She seems to hate vet students, particularly our class. She is extremely rude, has reduced more than one student to tears, and I'm fairly convinced she made our test harder than previous years' tests because she just can't stand us. She also isn't a great teacher and often says things in class that are blatantly wrong.

For the most part, our school has done a great job of listening to student feedback and improving things in any way that they can, but these are definitely the two points that I wish were improved. I guess another thing that would improve atmosphere is the lecture halls. One of them is quite nice, but the others are very cramped and some of them barely fit our class.

 

[MSUspartan]

i would say...more direction in anatomy lab. for the most part i'm happy with the way classes are set up (i mean...vet school sucks, but that's kind of a given...no way to make 20 science credits per semester fun...) EXCEPT anatomy lab. they literally just give us a dog and say "ok, you should make it to page x in guide to the dissection of the dog by the end of this period"
NEVER MIND the fact that nobody has ANY idea what the things we're supposed to be looking for look like, and that GDD sucks, for the most part...especially in terms of pictures to help with identification. there's 113 of us in the class, so about 28 groups of 4, and only 4 professors/TA's to help us figure out what we're looking at. it's a cluster*** most of the time and it's soooo frustrating. the school spent THOUSANDS of dollars putting flat-screen TV monitors around the lab (there's probably 10 of them) and the only time they were used was to show us how to put a scalpel blade on correctly the first day of lab. grrrr

 

[nyanko]

I can't speak for everyone here, and this is only after one quarter, but I think that at least in our class we're generally pretty happy at UCDavis. Yeah, sometimes the parade of exams and just getting so much information thrown at us all at the same time is pretty crazy, but really this past quarter most of our professors were really cool, and the pacing of the classes and timing of exams wasn't too bad.

I think one thing that helps in that regard is that we don't have like, set schedules for each of our classes (i.e. class A doesn't ALWAYS meet at 9 am MWF or whatever) so at least this quarter they were pretty good about the schedule being a little less grueling right before bigger exams, etc. The scheduling for all classes is done by one office, so they can look at the overall schedule as they go and I really do think for the first quarter they took it all into consideration as a whole.

A lot of the professors really, really tried to do sort of morale-boosting things, too. Our locomotor anatomy instructors were especially good at this kind of thing - did really cool stuff for us (may or may not have theme decorated the lab at Halloween and for the lab practical portion of the final exam 😉) and really went all out to try to make learning this stuff as enjoyable as possible. Locomotor anatomy was by far my least favorite SUBJECT, but the class itself was still relatively enjoyable for me just because of the instructors. That's HUGE as far as I'm concerned, and it made a big impact. 🙂

 

[HopefulAg]

there's 113 of us in the class, so about 28 groups of 4, and only 4 professors/TA's to help us figure out what we're looking at. it's a cluster*** most of the time and it's soooo frustrating. the school spent THOUSANDS of dollars putting flat-screen TV monitors around the lab (there's probably 10 of them) and the only time they were used was to show us how to put a scalpel blade on correctly the first day of lab. grrrr

Blurgh, at least the potential for the monitors is there. We have no monitors around the anatomy lab at all and so we have to play the raise your hand and wait game as well, but with no hope that some day they might wise up (because with the budget cuts, we're not going to be getting monitors any time soon). So frustrating...at least A&M has a summer crash course anatomy thing for those who hadn't had anatomy as an undergrad so there's generally at least one person who has some prior exposure to anatomy in each group, but that's assuming they remember it...

 

[oregonhopeful]

Being treated like an adult is huge. I hate being told we are professionals, we are expected to act like professionals ... and then being treated like a child. It feels like middle school sometimes. 🙄

 

[moosenanny]

I'm pretty much loving EVERYTHING about Davis so far 😍 Maybe that's just because it's been my dream school since I was five or so, and I am so appreciative to be here that I'm seeing everything through rose-colored glasses. Like Nyan said, our professors provide us with morale boosts in the form of haunted anatomy lab/lab was decorated for Christmas for our final. Also, for our histology final we got extra credit points for drawing out the imaginary animal off of which our light-hearted exam questions were based. It also doesn't hurt that our professors write humorous emails to us and sometimes address us as "future doctors" or "vets of 2014." 🙂

Our classrooms and buildings in general are all gorgeous and new. This really brightens my mood - especially the fact that anatomy lab barely smells at all and has tons of natural light. Not a dungeon at all!

The resources provided to students are amazing - from online videos of dictated dissections, to our virtual slide set that makes going into histo lab totally unnecessary, Davis makes studying as easy and pleasant as possible!

Everyone in our class is so friendly and warm, and our professors are extremely accessible and really want us to learn. They don't try to stump us on exams, and there aren't curves, so the only real competition I feel is against myself (i.e., pushing myself to do the best I possibly can).

Reading what other students have said about their own schools makes me even more appreciative to be at Davis! I always feel on top of the material and never get as stressed as others on the forum sound (and believe me, I'm a very neurotic, grade-oriented, high-strung student!!!).

If anyone has specific questions about Davis, feel free to PM me 🙂

 

[light10]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Very interesting how much agreement there is on this - it seems the quality of the professors and how they treat the students is a huge factor. I wonder if some schools have a better 'classroom culture' for lack of a better way to put it. Others perhaps have more of a hierarchical tradition where professors are more distant. The president of my undergrad had the informal slogan of sorts "[School], where we take our studies seriously and ourselves not so seriously" which I kind of adopted as a personal mantra. Hoping to find a vet school that fits in with that.

And moosenanny, you made me wish I'd applied to Davis!!

 

[Shadow23]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Very interesting how much agreement there is on this - it seems the quality of the professors and how they treat the students is a huge factor. I wonder if some schools have a better 'classroom culture' for lack of a better way to put it. Others perhaps have more of a hierarchical tradition where professors are more distant. The president of my undergrad had the informal slogan of sorts "[School], where we take our studies seriously and ourselves not so seriously" which I kind of adopted as a personal mantra. Hoping to find a vet school that fits in with that.

And moosenanny, you made me wish I'd applied to Davis!!

My thoughts exactly. And I also wish I applied to Davis after reading moosenanny's post, lol

 

[Chapelle]

I'm pretty much loving EVERYTHING about Davis so far 😍 Maybe that's just because it's been my dream school since I was five or so, and I am so appreciative to be here that I'm seeing everything through rose-colored glasses. Like Nyan said, our professors provide us with morale boosts in the form of haunted anatomy lab/lab was decorated for Christmas for our final. Also, for our histology final we got extra credit points for drawing out the imaginary animal off of which our light-hearted exam questions were based. It also doesn't hurt that our professors write humorous emails to us and sometimes address us as "future doctors" or "vets of 2014." 🙂

Our classrooms and buildings in general are all gorgeous and new. This really brightens my mood - especially the fact that anatomy lab barely smells at all and has tons of natural light. Not a dungeon at all!

The resources provided to students are amazing - from online videos of dictated dissections, to our virtual slide set that makes going into histo lab totally unnecessary, Davis makes studying as easy and pleasant as possible!

Everyone in our class is so friendly and warm, and our professors are extremely accessible and really want us to learn. They don't try to stump us on exams, and there aren't curves, so the only real competition I feel is against myself (i.e., pushing myself to do the best I possibly can).

Reading what other students have said about their own schools makes me even more appreciative to be at Davis! I always feel on top of the material and never get as stressed as others on the forum sound (and believe me, I'm a very neurotic, grade-oriented, high-strung student!!!).

If anyone has specific questions about Davis, feel free to PM me 🙂

Alright, I have to say I too adore UC Davis, but IMO this post is not entirely accurate 😛

90% of our professors are awesome but I can't say I gave all of them perfect evals. The buildings are indeed great. But anatomy lab definitely smells though and if I get too close to my dog my eyes burn. Really, the ventilation could be a lot better - as it is we are all breathing plenty of formalin. There are small windows but not what I would consider "tons of natural light."

I do LOVE the study videos and posters we get for anatomy and histo, I love my classmates, and the exams are indeed fair. Doesn't mean I'm never stressed! Definitely felt some major stress cramming for finals which happened a week after Thanksgiving!

 

[BlacKAT33]

As much as i did notttt enjoy this year, I can't think of anything that would have made it better except knowing what to expect ahead of time. Since I'm an officer I met with the professors multiple times, they are really understanding and willing to improve as much as possible. They really look out for us and try to make things fair. I love about 90% of our professors and I wish I could keep in touch with all of them as I get older but that obviously isn't possible lol. Our one administrator is also the "mom" of the vet students and was an amazing confidence booster for about half our class this year. I talked with her a lot when I was struggling.

Our exams are ok...definitely a change from what I'm used to. More memorization, less deep thinking. Once I realized how it was...I did better on exams. But my first exams were horrible because I did not realize memorizing the exact words of things is what makes the good grades.

Happy hours every Friday are a great way to relax. After class/lab everyone from 1st-2nd yr goes to happy hr and the beers are cheap and people are fun to chat with. The doggies running around really bring the energy to the party! I love our lounge and all our facilities.

Our library is also really great. I take advantage of all the private study rooms and use the dry erase boards to help study. Our facilities are really amazing so I can't complain about that.

So in conclusion, after much thought there isn't really much I can think of that would have made me more happy this semester. I think knowing the future would be the only thing lol I'm hoping to get a better handle on next semester since i know what is to come! Plus, I get to see all the pre-vets at happy hr which will be really fun!

 

[twelvetigers]

Blackat, it seemed to me that the Penn students were way stressed compared to students from other schools. Maybe it's just that there are lots of active Penn students on here... but crunch time really did seem terribly stressful in comparison to other schools. Thoughts?

 

[lalzi22]

What makes a happy student? Keeping your head above water.

At OSU they have SO many opportunities outside the classroom to deal with live animals. We have clubs and teams like milking team and dystocia team that lets you remember why you can to vet school. I'm a big like moosenanny in that I have wanted this since FOREVER, so I still have big fat rose colored glasses on, so I have trouble seeing any bad here.

The professors are very accessible and really want to help you understand everything, which I think is very important. In undergrad you could tell the prof's couldn't care less about teaching an were only doing it to get their grant money from the school, but at OSU our prof's are so excited about teaching (esp. the anatomy team and Dr. Dewille...omg love that man!) that it keeps me interested in what we are doing.

The BEST thing in class are clinical correlates. For example, in cell bio we were learning about ketones and their purpose int he body. Cool. How is this of any use to me in a small animal practice? Well, our prof. then went through how this plays a role in diabetes and then goes through the mechanics of why certain diets are better for managing diabetes, like W/D, and, cellularly speaking, WHY W/D is good. WOAH!! Learned something! Clinical correlates, in my mind, are one the the best things about OSU. They really want you to understand why you are learning these nitty gritty details.

Another thing which the adcoms kind of have control over is the class itself. I personally did not want to be part of a class that was competitive, and so I leaned towards schools that had less competition between students and had students that got along and actually helped each other (one reason why I went to OSU and also looooved Kansas). I wanted to feel part of a group, and not just a rank where I was constantly stressed out over grades. Our class is so laid back...I LOVE it.

 

[marcwood]

The BEST thing in class are clinical correlates. For example, in cell bio we were learning about ketones and their purpose int he body. Cool. How is this of any use to me in a small animal practice? Well, our prof. then went through how this plays a role in diabetes and then goes through the mechanics of why certain diets are better for managing diabetes, like W/D, and, cellularly speaking, WHY W/D is good. WOAH!! Learned something! Clinical correlates, in my mind, are one the the best things about OSU. They really want you to understand why you are learning these nitty gritty details.

Another thing which the adcoms kind of have control over is the class itself. I personally did not want to be part of a class that was competitive, and so I leaned towards schools that had less competition between students and had students that got along and actually helped each other (one reason why I went to OSU and also looooved Kansas). I wanted to feel part of a group, and not just a rank where I was constantly stressed out over grades. Our class is so laid back...I LOVE it.

This is WesternU 24/7! I understand things a lot better if I can see how it relates to a real life situation/patient. I learned about ketones in undergrad microbio but didn't give a rat's you know what, but when you put it in a problem-based case and get to actually understand it's significance in your patient it is actually easier to understand.
As far as competitiveness, you wouldn't get too far at western if you were competitive against your peers. Everyone (for the most part) shares resources and helps each other out; even the uppperclassmen help us out and share resources.

 

[JumpHigherLivie]

Honestly, I think a lot of what keeps you happy (or at least me happy) is MY attitude and how I let other people's affect my outlook.

There seems to be a recent trend here where people think if they don't do stellar on an exam, it's the professor's fault and if we whine enough they'll lower the standards and raise the grades. THis drives me CRAZY.... people will start bickering over every point, every word, blame the professor, ... it's like people forget that we can dumb down the classes to get 4.0s but it wont do us a darned bit of good if we don't pass boards or can't apply the knowledge beyond the class and remember it.

So, I have my own little posse of friends with a similar outlook, and try to filter out the rest of it and push myself to be the best that I can be regardless.

 

[moosenanny]

Alright, I have to say I too adore UC Davis, but IMO this post is not entirely accurate 😛

90% of our professors are awesome but I can't say I gave all of them perfect evals. The buildings are indeed great. But anatomy lab definitely smells though and if I get too close to my dog my eyes burn. Really, the ventilation could be a lot better - as it is we are all breathing plenty of formalin. There are small windows but not what I would consider "tons of natural light."

I do LOVE the study videos and posters we get for anatomy and histo, I love my classmates, and the exams are indeed fair. Doesn't mean I'm never stressed! Definitely felt some major stress cramming for finals which happened a week after Thanksgiving!

Haha, I think I've done so much dissection prior to vet school that (a) our lab is a MILLION times better smell-wise and light-wise than any other environment in which I've been for lab and (b) my nose and eyes must be way too used to the vapors if I barely notice them (other than when I'm in the freezer itself, which does blur my vision).

Also, I stayed in town for Thanksgiving and pretty much studied the entire week straight. This really helped with my stress levels. I probably should have included that as a caveat 😉

 

[parietal]

Honestly, I think a lot of what keeps you happy (or at least me happy) is MY attitude and how I let other people's affect my outlook.

👍👍

Completely agree with this. Great professors are very important, but your own attitude and your classmates' attitudes are equally important, I think.

Choosing your attitude and deciding whether you are willing to sacrifice your happiness for a 4.0 can make a huge difference, I've discovered. Since I've stopped stressing and started trying to make more time for fun, I'm much more relaxed and actually doing better on tests. 😀

Also, some vet schools have a reputation for a super-competitive atmosphere. I am incredibly fortunate to in a school not only with many awesome professors, but with awesome classmates. We share study guides, help each other out whenever we can, etc. Sure, there are a few annoying types, but it's pretty easy to avoid them. And it really is amazing how much difference one person can make (either good or bad) in lab groups, etc. Surround yourself with positive people and you will be a happier person. 🙂

 

[chii chan]

Academically..
Clinical relevance is important and makes things more interesting. It also makes some things more memorable and/or less mundane.

Not getting lost on the way to class. Summerhall is a maze sometimes and I still don't understand the layout, especially if you leave the building and enter a different part. Though I'll admit I'll miss it next year when we move out to Bush. Along the same lines, not having a class that's a 15 minute walk from the main campus. When we (the GEPs) have class with the 2nd years there isn't a room big enough for all of us, so they use the main campus rooms. I moved into a place that's literally a 3-5 minute walk from campus and sometimes it's a 15 minute walk to get to AHWAFS.

Being treated like a professional and not a 12 year old. Some professors are good about it and some aren't.

Clinical skills lab. It goes over the basics of how to use a stethoscope, do venipuncture, etc., but it's a reminder of the goal when you're sitting in "theory" classes all day. Plus the giant plastic horse and giant plastic cow upstairs in the lab is just plain cool.

Organization! This school doesn't seem to be on top of it sometimes. There seems to be no structure in when we are in class or not. It also seems to take them forever to put the schedule up and they make massive changes fairly often. I can't plan some things in advance since I still have no clue when I'm in class next semester.

Less competition. They don't post grades up for everyone to see. Everyone's grades are released on their personal EEVeC (Edinburgh Electronic Veterinary Curriculum) page and you can only see the scores that you received. There are also the 10 point ranges (showing how many people got within those ranges - 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s..) and an average is posted. Not sure why they even have a 90s column. It's not like it's physically possible for anyone to achieve that... 😡

Personally...
Creating flow. We had a lecture on this, mostly because she talked about depression and the high suicide rate in vets. Her suggestion is to do something you can flow to for 10 minutes a day. Basically something that you can literally lose track of time doing. Unfortunately I don't have a piano, but the 3-5 hours I can put in a week (depending on the room availability and my schedule) is fantastic. No more 6 hour sessions though. 🙁

Alcohol. Because sometimes you just need a beer.

Coffee. Well, that's pretty self explanatory..

 

[BlacKAT33]

Blackat, it seemed to me that the Penn students were way stressed compared to students from other schools. Maybe it's just that there are lots of active Penn students on here... but crunch time really did seem terribly stressful in comparison to other schools. Thoughts?

Ah yes i do think we were more stressed than most people lol These are the reasons why I think that is
1) finished both SA and LA anatomy in one semester (only doing heads next quarter)
2) Biochemistry (10 credits due to it being combined biochem, cell bio, and endocrinology all in one)
3) Histology practical exams (90 seconds "point and shoot" where you find things in your scope for them

I don't think many other schools have this same curriculum set up. But when I was thinking about the OPs question, I really couldnt think of how they could make us happier unless they changed their curriculum lol But besides that, I love the professors and administrators and I thought they provided as much help and support as possible.

 

[sumstorm]

There are definitly some curriculum changes our class would like to see. Sometimes I wish we had fewer required courses and more electives and slightly less hours crammed into a day (not to mention the threatened mandatory attendance/punitive exams for lack of attendance.)

I'd love if they offered food and laundry service like my husband's company does (just kidding, but in all reality, I think if a food production company made a good offer of tasty and healthy food that was ready made and delivered to the school, there would be enough students interested to make it profitable, and I do miss NYC where paying for wash & fold was as cheap as doing my own laundry.)

I would prefer more professors that have clinical experience. They seem to have a very different attitude about education than professors with a strictly research background (with a few exceptions.) I also really wish all our professors had to attend at least a few classes on teaching; the ones who say they have tend to be really amazing, and those who think anyone can teach (that is based on the comments from the professors.)

I love our clubs, and our wetlabs. Our class has a few gunners, but those are thinning out. I have to agree with others; we are adults, and should be treated as such but in the same breath I feel that students have to take the responsibility and behave as adults...and there are some stragglers in that regard.

I do wish we had a more practical curriculum...I would probably do better in an evidence based med model, or in a school that had a 2-2 set up rather than a 3-1, but I try to make the best with what we have. It is always a bit disturbing to have a prof that brags about how proud she is that she considers her class the 'hardest' of any vet school...makes me wonder about priorities (is it outshining other schools in a particular class, or is it getting us the knowledge we need?)