what MCAT score do I need to offset my GPA?

[cchace]

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I am 2 years out of Undergrad now and finishing up my MPH in epidemiology at Columbia. I was a biology and psychology doublemajor and I had a low undergrad GPA (3.27 at BU, science about the same) and I am currently studying to take the MCAT in July.

What kind of MCAT score do I need to offset my low GPA?

I just want to get into a decent medical school - I am a Massachusettes resident so UMass would be ideal for me. I am trying to decide whether to apply straight away for 2008 matriculation or wait one more year and possibly get a Master's in Medical Sciences at BU to boost my profile.

Has anyone heard of the BU's Masters in Medical Sciences?

I would really appreciate any feedback/advice!

 

[QuakerPreMed]

1) what is your Masters GPA?
2) what else is interesting about your application?

If the answer to 2) is not much, then 45.

Otherwise, honestly? this is a crapshoot -- almost everyone short of the 43/3.98 is lucky to get in. Score 36+ and apply broadly and just hope. Score less than 36 and I'd take more time off, personally.

 

[tkatchev]

1) what is your Masters GPA?
2) what else is interesting about your application?

If the answer to 2) is not much, then 45.

Otherwise, honestly? this is a crapshoot -- almost everyone short of the 43/3.98 is lucky to get in. Score 36+ and apply broadly and just hope. Score less than 36 and I'd take more time off, personally.

36, wtf, since when did a 36 become the gold standard MCAT score. The average score for all accepted students is still a 30 or 31. Granted her GPA (3.27) is not great, but a 32-34 MCAT and some strong EC coupled with a strong motivation to pursue medicine will grant her a spot somewhere.

I'm sick and tired of people on these threads talking about how you need a 35+ or 40+ MCAT to get into med school. Or worse yet the "I got a 14, 13, 12, should I retake?".

Here's a secret for every stressed out pre-med out there. YOU DON'T NEED A 40 ON YOUR MCAT. Last time I checked about 50 percent of applicants get into med school, and a 36 is about the top 5 percent of test takers.

 

[emaj1n]

36, wtf, since when did a 36 become the gold standard MCAT score. The average score for all accepted students is still a 30 or 31. Granted her GPA (3.27) is not great, but a 32-24 MCAT and some strong EC coupled with a strong motivation to pursue medicine will grant her a spot somewhere.

I'm sick and tired of people on these threads talking about how you need a 35+ or 40+ MCAT to get into med school. Or worse yet the "I got a 14, 13, 12, should I retake?".

Here's a secret for every stressed out pre-med out there. YOU DON'T NEED A 40 ON YOUR MCAT. Last time I checked about 50 percent of applicants get into med school, and a 36 is about the top 5 percent of test takers.

Holy cow! He was kidding. Take a Xanax already.

 

[HristosKaran]

36, wtf, since when did a 36 become the gold standard MCAT score. The average score for all accepted students is still a 30 or 31. Granted her GPA (3.27) is not great, but a 32-24 MCAT and some strong EC coupled with a strong motivation to pursue medicine will grant her a spot somewhere.

I'm sick and tired of people on these threads talking about how you need a 35+ or 40+ MCAT to get into med school. Or worse yet the "I got a 14, 13, 12, should I retake?".

Here's a secret for every stressed out pre-med out there. YOU DON'T NEED A 40 ON YOUR MCAT. Last time I checked about 50 percent of applicants get into med school, and a 36 is about the top 5 percent of test takers.

Well put my friend!!

 

[QuakerPreMed]

36, wtf, since when did a 36 become the gold standard MCAT score. The average score for all accepted students is still a 30 or 31. Granted her GPA (3.27) is not great, but a 32-24 MCAT and some strong EC coupled with a strong motivation to pursue medicine will grant her a spot somewhere.

You honestly believe that? Plenty of people on this board this cycle have mid-30s MCATs, higher GPAs, decent ECs and LORs, and don't get in anywhere, even after applying broadly. Yes, a 36 is in the 95th percentile. But a GPA lower than 3.3 is NOT NOT NOT helpful. (Look up the GPA distro in MSAR.) Also, you can be sure that of the people who did get in with those GPAs most of them scored ABOVE the average MCAT score of 29-31 AND most of them had some crazy awesome life experience.

I don't mean to be negative. I mean to say, take the time to do this hellish process ONCE and then be done and accepted.

However, in the wink-nudge vein, i still say 45 is the best way to make up for a low GPA 😀

 

[Cueball3]

You honestly believe that? Plenty of people on this board this cycle have mid-30s MCATs, higher GPAs, decent ECs and LORs, and don't get in anywhere, even after applying broadly. Yes, a 36 is in the 95th percentile. But a GPA lower than 3.3 is NOT NOT NOT helpful. (Look up the GPA distro in MSAR.) Also, you can be sure that of the people who did get in with those GPAs most of them scored ABOVE the average MCAT score of 29-31 AND most of them had some crazy awesome life experience.

I don't mean to be negative. I mean to say, take the time to do this hellish process ONCE and then be done and accepted.

However, in the wink-nudge vein, i still say 45 is the best way to make up for a low GPA 😀

(In random poker terminology applied to this response) I will see your average MCAT of 29-31 and lower it by 2-3 MCAT points. I know a certain someone with a 26 MCAT and a 3.5 undergrad accepted into UMass. It's not all about the stats. I do agree, however, that this is not your typical situation/acceptance profile. If you really want it, you will do this process as many times as necessary until you get accepted or 3 times; whichever comes first. 😉

 

[riceman04]

Score 36+ and apply broadly and just hope. Score less than 36 and I'd take more time off, personally

hahahahahahahahahaha
how random
Thanks adcomm!!!!! Hey can I set up a personal time to sit and discuss components of my application as well?

 

[Jokerman99]

You honestly believe that? Plenty of people on this board this cycle have mid-30s MCATs, higher GPAs, decent ECs and LORs, and don't get in anywhere, even after applying broadly. Yes, a 36 is in the 95th percentile. But a GPA lower than 3.3 is NOT NOT NOT helpful. (Look up the GPA distro in MSAR.) Also, you can be sure that of the people who did get in with those GPAs most of them scored ABOVE the average MCAT score of 29-31 AND most of them had some crazy awesome life experience.

I don't mean to be negative. I mean to say, take the time to do this hellish process ONCE and then be done and accepted.

However, in the wink-nudge vein, i still say 45 is the best way to make up for a low GPA 😀

you're a jackass...

 

[StringTheorist]

36, wtf, since when did a 36 become the gold standard MCAT score. The average score for all accepted students is still a 30 or 31. Granted her GPA (3.27) is not great, but a 32-24 MCAT and some strong EC coupled with a strong motivation to pursue medicine will grant her a spot somewhere.

I'm sick and tired of people on these threads talking about how you need a 35+ or 40+ MCAT to get into med school. Or worse yet the "I got a 14, 13, 12, should I retake?".

Here's a secret for every stressed out pre-med out there. YOU DON'T NEED A 40 ON YOUR MCAT. Last time I checked about 50 percent of applicants get into med school, and a 36 is about the top 5 percent of test takers.

im just a pharmacy student browsing the med boards... but here here! for that one. i have a good friend who is premed, and i check up on things for him... nobody really expects you to get a 40.

 

[spicedmanna]

...3.27 at BU, science about the same...

What kind of MCAT score do I need to offset my low GPA?

The most accurate answer to your question is no MCAT score will "offset" your low GPA. While there is some degree of variance between schools, in general, both your MCAT and GPA are equally important and both need to be a good as you can get them for the best chances and options in the application process.

I would suggest holding off on applying and either doing post-bacc (formal or informal) undergraduate work, or a special master's program (SMP) to address your GPA deficiency and demonstrate your academic ability.

Good luck!

 

[QuakerPreMed]

you're a jackass...

Well, I always did want to go into surgery.

I'm just naturally pessimistic, I suppose. Why encourage people with 3.2s and sub-30 MCATs to apply? 9/10 times they'll be wasting their money.

As to the guy who said thanks ADCOM, I said personally. I don't think I need to be an ADCOM to know what I'd do in the situation personally. 🙄

 

[Instatewaiter]

The BU special masters program is pretty well known. SMPs are generally good ways to make up for a lack luster Ugrad GPA. Note that it will not be factored into your Ugrad GPA but will rather be part of its own graduate GPA (with your MPH). Those programs, more than MPHs, will demonstrate that you can hang in high level basic sciences. You will be taking the first year medical curriculum with medical students so it will be pretty intense.

Take the MCAT, if you score above a 30 I say apply. Apply to mid-tier schools as well as your state schools. The MPH should give you a bit of a push to get in as well.

BU should be your backup plan. Not worth spending 40K on an SMP when you could just spend 2K on applying

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Why encourage people with 3.2s and sub-30 MCATs to apply? 9/10 times they'll be wasting their money.

Is self-quoting going to make my palms grow hair?

Although MDApps is hardly gospel on this subject, I did do a search for 2006 applicants (so as to draw in waitlistees, since this year's WLs aren't done)...

Of the 45 people accepted to a program with a GPA of less than 3.25 and MCAT less than 30, most went into DO programs (my advice for a high MCAT was certainly geared towards an MD applicant), and of those that went into either MD or DO programs, most had strong performances in post-bacs or had masters (luckily OP you do!).

However, of the 24 students who were accepted to a program in 2006 with GPAs of less than 3.25 and MCATs greater than 33, most were accepted to MD programs, some even mid to top-tier programs.

Hey, in the famous words of SDN, rock the MCAT. 😀

 

[tkatchev]

Holy cow! He was kidding. Take a Xanax already.

He was kidding about the 45, yes, but he wasn't kidding about advising them to score a 36.

 

[tkatchev]

You honestly believe that? Plenty of people on this board this cycle have mid-30s MCATs, higher GPAs, decent ECs and LORs, and don't get in anywhere, even after applying broadly. Yes, a 36 is in the 95th percentile. But a GPA lower than 3.3 is NOT NOT NOT helpful. (Look up the GPA distro in MSAR.) Also, you can be sure that of the people who did get in with those GPAs most of them scored ABOVE the average MCAT score of 29-31 AND most of them had some crazy awesome life experience.

I don't mean to be negative. I mean to say, take the time to do this hellish process ONCE and then be done and accepted.

However, in the wink-nudge vein, i still say 45 is the best way to make up for a low GPA 😀

If that's the case, then there must have been a major personality flaw that was obvious during their interview. Because if you do everything right, you’re just not going to get rejected from every school for no reason unless you have a ****ty personality or you apply ridiculously late. And yes, you're going to respond with some anecdotal evidence, and that's well and good, but it's only the exception that proves the rule.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

If that's the case, then there must have been a major personality flaw that was obvious during their interview. Because if you do everything right, you're just not going to get rejected from every school for no reason unless you have a ****ty personality or you apply ridiculously late. And yes, you're going to respond with some anecdotal evidence, and that's well and good, but it's only the exception that proves the rule.

Yes well I'd love your anecdotal evidence disproving my anecdotal evidence, in the great tradition of SDN 'debate'.

There are people here with 3.4s who don't get in. I didn't say a lot higher GPA. Of course a fair amount of 3.5-3.6 with 29-31ish get in, heck, that's the average. (edit: i didn't realize i had said mid-30s MCAT; i didn't mean that. revise that to 30-33. my bad.)

And why would I not advise someone to score highly on the MCAT? I pulled 36 out of my ass because it's a good score...should I have just said, oh, don't worry, get a 28 because somewhere might accept you? 😕

 

[Green Pirate]

has anyone else noticed how most threads on SDN inevitably devolve into mini flame wars? I guess that's what happens when you group a bunch of type A personalities together and give them the veil of protection that is the intraweb. in any case, flame on!

 

[tkatchev]

Yes well I'd love your anecdotal evidence disproving my anecdotal evidence, in the great tradition of SDN 'debate'.

There are people here with 3.4s who don't get in. I didn't say a lot higher GPA. Of course a fair amount of 3.5-3.6 with 29-31ish get in, heck, that's the average. (edit: i didn't realize i had said mid-30s MCAT; i didn't mean that. revise that to 30-33. my bad.)

And why would I not advise someone to score highly on the MCAT? I pulled 36 out of my ass because it's a good score...should I have just said, oh, don't worry, get a 28 because somewhere might accept you? 😕

No, of course not. However, it seems a bit unrealistic to advice someone with a sub-par GPA to get an MCAT score that is considerably above the curve; in the top 5 percent. It's kind of like telling a high school senior with a 2.0 GPA that they'll be just fine as long as long as they score a 1500 on the SAT.

Also, I would recommend, in general, not pulling anything out of your ass. It's not culturally accepted and there are sanitary issues.

Edit:OK I just saw your edit about the mid-thirties thing, I accept your argument now that you've lowered it.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

No, of course not. However, it seems a bit unrealistic to advice someone with a sub-par GPA to get an MCAT score that is considerably above the curve; in the top 5 percent. It's kind of like telling a high school senior with a 2.0 GPA that they'll be just fine as long as they score a 1500 on the SAT.

Also, I would recommend, in general, not pulling anything out of your ass. It's not culturally accepted and there are sanitary issues.

to the first bit: I hope the best of everyone, and certainly GPA can be linked to a lot of things other than intelligence ... so i do believe a lot of students can do well on the MCAT even after so-so grades. Granted, plenty don't...but I believe the truly motivated can.

And to the second bit: yes, well, i'm not sure what that score was doing in there. i like your style of wit. let's be friends.

edit: hey green pirate, say something inflammatory! You know you want to get in on it. (maybe HumbleMD's lack of posting recently has created an inflammatory vacuum which we are unknowingly filling?)

 

[tkatchev]

has anyone else noticed how most threads on SDN inevitably devolve into mini flame wars? I guess that's what happens when you group a bunch of type A personalities together and give them the veil of protection that is the intraweb. in any case, flame on!

They put the caffeine into caffeine pills and other caffeine novelty item. For example, caffeinated condoms, caffeinated gummy bears, caffeinated chalk, caffeinated nicotine patch, caffeinated enemas, caffeinated caffeine pills (for that extra jolt in the morning), caffeinated contact solution... all sorts of stuff.

 

[tkatchev]

to the first bit: I hope the best of everyone, and certainly GPA can be linked to a lot of things other than intelligence ... so i do believe a lot of students can do well on the MCAT even after so-so grades. Granted, plenty don't...but I believe the truly motivated can.

And to the second bit: yes, well, i'm not sure what that score was doing in there. i like your style of wit. let's be friends.

edit: hey green pirate, say something inflammatory! You know you want to get in on it. (maybe HumbleMD's lack of posting recently has created an inflammatory vacuum which we are unknowingly filling?)

Sweet… from mortal enemies to friends, don't you just love SDN?

 

[DrCurious]

I agree with the poster who said its hard to offset a lower then average GPA. The average GPA for med school has been creeping up, and based on AAMC the average GPA for applicants for 2006 ( I assume it went up for 2007 since it has gone up every year) is 3.57 Science gpa and 3.64 overall gpa. Being at a 3.3 puts you more then a standard deviation below the average. Im not saying that you can't get in, put in the time for the MCAT and try to do at least above the average (33 or so should be good I think). And definitely put in the time in your apps, that should give you a fair shot.

 

[Green Pirate]

They put the caffeine into caffeine pills and other caffeine novelty item. For example, caffeinated condoms, caffeinated gummy bears, caffeinated chalk, caffeinated nicotine patch, caffeinated enemas, caffeinated caffeine pills (for that extra jolt in the morning), caffeinated contact solution... all sorts of stuff.

sometimes I feel people aren't being entirely honest with me...

and quaker, here's my inflammatory remark:

bush, playstation 3, religion, gas prices, M.D. vs D.O., what are my chances?, physician salaries, universal healthcare, abortion, stem cell research, democrats, republicans, catholic church, animal testing, handsome cab rides!

that oughta strike a few nerves.

 

[QuakerPreMed]

Sweet… from mortal enemies to friends, don't you just love SDN?

The best part about SDN is that every single poster is right, even if two people say completely opposite things. 🙄 We're all so opinionated...

Sorry OP, for the complete thread derailment, best of luck and all.

begin sarcasm-laced edit...
edit: there was ANIMAL TESTING when BUSH was developing PLAYSTATION 3? dude. you'll never get into medical school with those kinds of remarks.

 

[DrCurious]

As far as getting grad degrees, I honestly feel the MPH does not carry much weight. It is not a science heavy degree at all, if you want to increase your gpa go for a post bac or special masters program. An MPH does not show any improvement on past performance, especially science. For the most part I feel the degree will not help much, and likely would help one alot more who already has the GPA and MCAT to boot. BU's special masters program is quite good and I have heard only good things about it, it be a good pick in my opinion if you opt to go that route.

 

[Nasrudin]

sometimes I feel people aren't being entirely honest with me...

and quaker, here's my inflammatory remark:

bush, playstation 3, religion, gas prices, M.D. vs D.O., what are my chances?, physician salaries, universal healthcare, abortion, stem cell research, democrats, republicans, catholic church, animal testing, handsome cab rides!

that oughta strike a few nerves.

I hear you.

 

[Karnage]

has anyone else noticed how most threads on SDN inevitably devolve into mini flame wars? I guess that's what happens when you group a bunch of type A personalities together and give them the veil of protection that is the intraweb. in any case, flame on!

Best thing about the internet!!!! Anonymity!!!!

 

[uhohspaghettio]

You need about 33+ to be competetive with your low GPA

 

[tkatchev]

You need about 33+ to be competetive with your low GPA

Wow, you don't even feel the need to explain your random one liner advice. You just call em' like you see em' don't you? That must mean your super duper smart.

OK, everyone, forget all the back and forth debate we've just had. Stick with this guys advice. OP you obviously need a 33+

Did you even bother to read the other responses?

 

[sekem]

I am 2 years out of Undergrad now and finishing up my MPH in epidemiology at Columbia. I was a biology and psychology doublemajor and I had a low undergrad GPA (3.27 at BU, science about the same) and I am currently studying to take the MCAT in July.

What kind of MCAT score do I need to offset my low GPA?

I just want to get into a decent medical school - I am a Massachusettes resident so UMass would be ideal for me. I am trying to decide whether to apply straight away for 2008 matriculation or wait one more year and possibly get a Master's in Medical Sciences at BU to boost my profile.

Has anyone heard of the BU's Masters in Medical Sciences?

I would really appreciate any feedback/advice!

Based on the 70 point rule, 70-32.7 = 37.4

So any where above 37 will compensate ...

 

[uhohspaghettio]

Based on the 70 point rule, 70-32.7 = 37.4

So any where above 37 will compensate ...

wow... I thought it was more like 65+ for low and mid-tier and 70+ for top-tier

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

What score you are shooting for shouldn't be determined by your app. The high score is 45. Shoot that high.

 

[bambielee]

I think that instead of worrying about what you should or shouldn't get and putting a number in your head that you're not 100% sure will get you in somewhere, you should focus on just doing your absolute best. It's pretty difficult to predict what the admissions officer is going to decide anyway because people get in with all different combinations of scores. So like I said, just try your best!

 

[Algorhythmik]

Most people are not aware of the existence of an academic indexing system used at most of the 120-some odd allopathic medical admissions offices in the U.S. (I know this because my family is good friends with someone who's the Assoc. Dean of Admissions at a very reputable medical school.)

Your Academic Index (aka "AI") is a basic formula that is softened on the edges by human judgment: that means it is an exact formula, but officers are allowed to counter the indications of that number if they feel certain life experiences or activities, etc sort of balance that out. 😕 EXPLAIN?

Certainly ...

This is why having great scores with poor GPA, minimal EC's and poor LOR's is not enough, and also why having a great GPA and great ECs/LORs with a crappy MCAT is not enough. Though someone out there will always be cognizant of some exceptional story that negates this notion, the general trend that I'm telling you about is entirely true.

Here is the formula:

AI = 10xGPA + total MCAT 😎 (shhhhhhhhh)

As an example, someone with a 4.0 GPA and a 30 MCAT (i.e., 10 VR ,10 BS, 10 PS) would have an AI of ... 10x4.0 + 30 = 70.

This 70 is the raw score that you, as a student, should be looking for when applying ... it's quite often the kind of index that will grant you (near) automatic interview invites. 👍 An AI higher than 75 (4.0 GPA + 35 MCAT) is also an almost guaranteed acceptance at most schools. I say "near" because Admissions has a huge human factor to it as well. And I say "most" schools because every school has its dutifully capricious points of view and idiosyncracies they like to fulfill (think Harvard's and Hopkins' being in bed with US News & WR). 🙄

The Assoc. Dean I know so well tells me they will often reject someone with perfect numbers pre-interview if their application shows NO evidence of shadowing or extra-curriculars/community service. And balancing also has its limit ... in her words, in regards to MCAT or GPA, "no see-saw is perfectly balanced, but you also can't let the see-saw tip too far to either side."

So, that AI formula I've given you ... it's a good general indicator of where you are, but having an absolutely horrid GPA won't get balancedby a 45 MCAT, or vice versa. AH! A CLUE SHERLOCK!

But, obviously, every school has a different target population and seeks different qualities in their students (example: FSU seeks compassionate Family Practice docs, whereas Lerner College of Cleveland seeks hardcore physician scientists ... they're obviously looking for different things).

 

[ynamoeks]

Even if you did find out what you'll need to score on your MCAT to offset your GPA, how will that affect your studying and prep?

 

[ynamoeks]

Even if you did find out what you'll need to score on your MCAT to offset your GPA, how will that affect your preparations and studying?

 

[DrPsychiatry]

knowing that u need to score over 37 to get over 70 puts so much pressure on u ...

 

[spicedmanna]

knowing that u need to score over 37 to get over 70 puts so much pressure on u ...

I understand what you are saying. However, it's so ridiculous, this whole thing about needing a particular MCAT score. Why look at the lower limit? That's not the right mentality, in my opinion. Strive to score as well you can. Enough said. 🙄

 

[cchace]

Wow! Thanks for all the advice guys! (and the flaming bouts, I found those particularly entertaining) 🙂

So here it is...

I know my GPA is low and I don't have that much time to study for the MCAT (I am taking the July 24th exam). So as it gets closer and I continue to take practice full-lengths, I want to be able to decide "I just haven't had enough time to prepare, the score isn't high enough, I am going to reschedule my test for August or September" or "ok, I am in the ballpark of where I need to be, I should take the July test and see how it goes". I took a diagnostic at Kaplan (I'm taking the course) without having looked at the material in over 2 years and I got a 25. I am pretty sure that most of it is just a matter of refamiliarizing myself with the material, so I am pretty sure I can raise that score by quite a bit...it's just a matter of whether I have enough time.

I know the MPH won't help too much, as it's not a science heavy masters, but I didn't decide to get an MPH to pump up my application. I am genuinely interested and I plan on doing epi research in the developing world as part of career as a physician.

In undergrad I majored in biology and psychology and I:

played D1 soccer freshman year, danced for MIT's dance/choreographed troupe soph, jun, sen years, did a summer of immunology bench research at Harvard, worked on a directed psych study of the relationship between eating disorders and ADD/ADHD, and worked part-time as a server at a 4-star restaurant during my jun/sen years.

My senior year was particularly crazy because I also overloaded in hopes of scoring more As to bring up my low GPA, but I bit off a little more than I could chew and didn't improve my GPA much. I feel that my low GPA does not appropriately reflect my intelligence and is more a matter of having spread myself too thin and not having focused enough on classes.

For the past year I have been researching Alzheimer's disease genetics at the Taub Institute at Columbia (full-time) while I get my MPH at Columbia (3/4 time). I split my research time between statistical analysis and molecular biology bench work. I am currently writing my thesis based on this research, which I hope will be ready for publication before September. I have also TAed the most advanced epi course at the school, danced for Columbia's dance troupe, and I am currently starting a debate program with a group of friends at a high school in Harlem (where I live). It's been a busy year.

My GPA at Columbia is 3.77 (all As and A-s), so even though it might not matter, at least it is an improvement. I am also getting recommendations from the Director of the Sergievsky Center at CU (I work closely with him), 2 PIs (one from the lab side and one from the stat analyst side), and my advanced epi professor. I have heard of the formula MD schools use as a first round filter. Hopefully my MCAT can cut it.

Thanks for so much for your advice. Maybe this will give you a clearer picture of what my app might shape up to be and whether or not I should do a post-bacc, wait a year, or try to crank the MCAT out in July and apply straight away. Fell free to hit me with your thoughts and advice(however encouraging or depressing they might be) 🙂

 

[Auraraptor]

One of my friends got into Med school right out of college (he applied final year) with the same GPA and a 32, about 1 year of research, also a double major in a science and humanities.