WHAT NEXT FOR A FMG ?

[IRON_DUKE]

I was wondering after you pass STEP 1 , 2 , TOEFL , CSA ........................What happens next ?

Should I have applied for residency before all of this or after ?

What happens if you are not matched with any residency ?

Would it be any easier to get into the U.S. ARMED FORCES and take it from there ?

All insight is welcome !

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[BellKicker]

I'm wondering a lot of these things myself. I think you have to take the tests before you apply. How else would they rank you? I'm not sure about the CSA as it's pass/fail.

If you're an IMG/FMG like me, the whole process seems long and difficult. I would just take one step at the time (literally and figuratively). It all depends on whether you're already an MD or you just started med school. Whether you have/will get a green card and so on.

It's not much help, if any, I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

 

[Maran]

I would recommend visiting the ECFMG web site.
You will probably need their certification anyway, and I think they have the whole process laid out for you.

Their address is: <a href="http://www.ecfmg.org" target="_blank">www.ecfmg.org</a>

Good luck!

 

[Winged Scapula]

The process is as follows:

to REGISTER for the match, you only need to have taken Step 1.

to submit a Rank Order List and stay in the match after ROL submission date (usually mid-February) you must have taken ALL the exams toward your ECFMG certification (ie, Steps 1 and 2, TOEFL and the CSA)

to START a US residency, you must have your ECFMG certificate (which requires the above tests and completion of your medical degree).

However, some US residency programs will not interview IMGs who do not already possess their ECFMG certificate. Unfortunately, not all of them will advertise this and you will only find out when they contact you (after you've paid your NRMP/ERAS fee to apply to this program). I found by and large however, that most programs weren't worried about me getting the certificate (I had passed Step 1 and 2 and the TOEFL). The situation may differ for someone who isn't a US citizen or non-native English speaker. The best way to know is to contact programs and ask specifically if they REQUIRE IMGs to have the ECFMG certificate to be eligible for interview/participation in the match (ie, remember this is NOT an NRMP requirement but the programs may set additional regulations as they see fit) or if you only need it to start residency.

If you do not obtain a residency position during the NRMP (the "match"), most people obtain one through the "scramble" - essentially calling programs which have open positions after the match results are out and sending them your application. There will still be positions available (depending on your field of choice) after the scramble which might be willing to take you. Those who are still unwilling or unable to take a position will often sit out the year, doing research or some allied health job.

Getting into the US Armed Forces is NOT the way to go for several reasons...

1) I am not sure of citizenship requirements but surely they require that you be a US citizen or permanent resident

2) You will be required to participate in the military match which has fewer positions, and you may not be able to/allowed to match into the field of your choice, ie, the military only needs so many Opthalmologists but requires a lot of FPs, etc. You may have little choice as to your geographic destination as well.

3) You will incur a service commitment even if they don't pay for medical school, a commitment that isn't generally waived/paid for by doing a military residency.

If you already have your ECFMG certificate, it will be easier to obtain a left over spot now. If you are simply awaiting the certificate, you may also find a spot. However, if you want the best chance to get a spot of your choice, it *may* be worth waiting until next year provided you can find something medically relevant to do for the next year.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stormreaver]

Fresh info from an IMG just through the Match:

This year, the number of programs requiring ECFMG certification has gone up. A number of programs rejected applicants with scores of 240+ in both exams, simply because they had not passed the CSA. The trend is likely to progress next year, as the CSA pass rate has begun to drop for some reason. As it is, I had a decent amount of interviews, but had I passed the CSA earlier, I'm sure it might have been a different story.

 

[IRON_DUKE]

Just for the Record , I am a U.S. Citizen . I am not yet an F.M.G. , but I am working on that .

Now to be fair , lets post information for those of us that are U.S. Citizens , and for those who are not . That way it helps both , just make sure you clarify that point when you post .

Did not know that the military limits so much , seem like they need M.Ds , but hey looks like it is not the case .

 

[assyrian]

i too had not got my ecfmg certificate when i applied. i had passed my steps and toefl but was yet to pass my csa. so i called each program and asked them specifically whether they wanted ecfmg certificate to apply and then i applied only to those programs. i dont know if i would have got better interviews if i had been ecfmg certified. but the funny thing is that i had applied to a particular program thinking they did not require ecfmg certification but later on i found out that they wouldnt give interviews without ecfmg certification. so finally when i did get ecfmg certification in january 2002, i sent that program an e mail informing them of my status. and it turned out that they still had one interview date open and so i was called in and finally i matched in that particular program. i was pretty lucky, bcos if i had been ecfmg certified 2 weeks later, i wouldnt have gotten the interview and so wouldnt have matched into that program.

 

[Winged Scapula]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by MOX:
•
Did not know that the military limits so much , seem like they need M.Ds , but hey looks like it is not the case .•••••Perhaps they do need physicians but remember they only need certain KINDS of physicians. You are required to participate in the military match; should you not obtain a position that way you may be able to participate in the regular NRMP, civilian match.

The MAJOR limitation IMHO is that you are not free to select what field you wish to try and match into. The number of spots for specialists is even more limited than in the civilian match and if you do not match into one of them, you may be "asked" to apply/take a Primary Care spot. If you are SURE (and how can you be at this point) that you do not wish to pursue anything other than a Primary Care field and are willing to do so anywhere in the world, then perhaps the military is a good option for you. But then again, maybe you should talk to my friend doing her GMO tour in Korea and being "forced" to do FP. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

 

[IRON_DUKE]

Send me the contact info so I can get in touch with her and find out from someone who is there . I am seriously considering the military !

 

[abu barney]

Hey stormweaver,

For someone who plans to have completed all the requirements for ECFMG cert (Step 1, step 2, toefl, and CSA) by the time of most app deadlines for residency programs, but has not yet graduated, and who wants IM in a highly-ranked program, how many programs would you recommend to apply to. Right now I got around 60 programs in mind (thank God for ERAS), and many are top notch (harvard, JHU, etc), do you think this is enough?

If you don't mind me asking, how many programs did you apply to? How interviews did you get in return?

Thanks.
-Bakir

 

[Stormreaver]

It depends what you mean by a top-ranked program, and whether or not you have US clinical experience (electives, research, etc.) Very simply put-- most top 50 programs will not look at your application without either US electives or research. Those are the details the programs provided and were borne out by my personal experience. If you have US letters, then you can apply to fewer, but I would otherwise consider applications to MGH, BWH, JHU etc wasted.

Other than that--I would say that there are 30-odd decent University programs that take IMGs. Shoot for those at the very least.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree with Stormweaver - unless you are an absolutely stellar IMG from a well recognized school applications to top tier programs like Harvard, JHU are money wasted. Many IMGs spend thousands of dollars applying to numerous programs - again wasted money. If a program has no history of taking IMGs (and not just 1 or 2 over the last 10 years) why would you be the first (not to be rude, but be objective about it). Applying scattershot doesn't help you and doesn't impress PDs.

That said, the average IMG has to apply to more programs than the AMG to get a decent number of interviews and a rank list. There is no magic number; community programs tend to be more receptive and inner city university programs in undesirable geographical locations.

MOX - I am still unsure as to how being in the military will help you. The military will not pay for schooling in a foreign country and it only serves to limit your residency choices, therefore, I cannot see the benefit in considering it as a means to get into residency. The benefits are largely tuition payment for attending a US school (however, that entails a number of cons which i've already delineated).

 

[abu barney]

•••quote:•••Applying scattershot doesn't help you and doesn't impress PDs.
••••How do PD's know what programs you apply to anyway? I've been out of the US for five years now, so I consider myself totally geographically dislocated. I don't really care where the program is, as long as it is a good one, and near a good university.

I'll be doing electives this summer at Mayo and either Harvard or Northwestern. I hope I can get some good letters and evaluations from both. Most top IM programs, except maybe MGH, JHU, have small number of IMGs each year, so I'm not ready to rule out many possibilities yet. However I do plan to broaden the scope of the programs I'm applying to.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Stormreaver]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by abu barney:
[QBMost top IM programs, except maybe MGH, JHU, have small number of IMGs each year, so I'm not ready to rule out many possibilities yet. However I do plan to broaden the scope of the programs I'm applying to.[/QB]••••A few of the top programs do have IMGs every year, it is true, but these are IMGs with substantial qualifications. One of these is obviously rotations within the program. Although Harvard offers rotations, they still don't accept IMGs. Northwestern, Duke, UW Madison, Mayo, Baylor and Emory are some that I know of who take IMGs who have performed well on electives in those programs. Wash U/BJH also takes a few every year--- other top programs such as NYU and the California ones don't. Yet others-- Yale, Cornell and a few others take those with substantial research experience.

Just something to consider-- some people I know are at top programs. Only these were people who put in 1-2 years of research and had publications to their name-- or they had oustanding US letters plus they graduated from one of the small handful of really well-respected colleges. I'm not trying to discourage you, just telling you what I saw and went through.

 

[KWBum]

Originally posted by Stormreaver:
[QB]

Originally posted by abu barney:
[Although Harvard offers rotations, they still don't accept IMGs.

I think all of us FMG's need to remember one thing, and one thing only--Your future will be exactly what you make it.

Now, I realize that this is both anecdotal and limited info, so do take it as such.

But, during my pre-med years I worked in Pathology at Harvard Brigham and Women's (Robbins!). Quite a few of the residents were foreign grads of various stripes.

Now, at KMU in Poland I'm again seeing that it is what you make it. I know people who have no clue as to what to do. Quite a few are sitting in the US, unmatched, bemoaning their damn FMG status. Others are starting residencies in Anesthesiology in Miami.

Study. Talk to those who are succesful. Study. Do your rotations in the US. Smile. Study. Ignore those who whine. Study. If you are on the internet reading this you have at your fingertips almost too much information. You have no excuses. Study.

It's cheesy, it causes people to roll their eyes, my girlfriend thinks I'm a wackjob (yet, she's still my girlfriend!), but it's true. So remember...

--What you can conceive, you can achieve.

KWBum

 

[mulingo]

KWBum has it right!! For my 2 cents added on to his observations, it is indeed true that you creat your own destiny.
Personally, I somehow landed a research assistant position at Brigham and Womens Hospital for 6 months in translational biochemistry (dept of Anesthesia) and I had NOT YET TAKEN A BASIC CHEMISTRY CLASS! They were willing to give me a shot because of my gumption and intense desire to succeed there.
Another friend of mine working in a lab one floor up from us was a physician from Colombia, South America. Her route was to come to the US, work in research at B&W Hosp, got great recommendations, THEN applied and got into a great Mass residency program (and she barely speaks English!). Obviously, she is competent and reliable, and she paid her dues in terms of making great connections at Harvard in the research community.
With a little motivation and perseverance, all things are possible. YOu are only limited by your self-imposed limitations. Patience is the key.
Best of luck to all, and thanks for your positive, uplifting comments KWBum!

 

[NuMD97]

I looked into the military option several years ago when I started my own quest and I remember receiving a polite "no" that noted the military MD was only considered for those already in the Armed Forces. I guess if you are determined to get into the military first, then it might be possible for the MD to follow, but the implication was it was a very circuitous route, and from what other friends had told me, it was their understanding that you didn't get to "pick" the specialty, but the military picked it for you based on their needs.

I would check directly with the branch of the service that interests you and check what the specs are, and be very careful I understood the small print before I signed up. Just my two cents.

 

[IRON_DUKE]

CAN IT REALLY BE THAT EASY