What Opportunities are there for Graduated Pharmacists in Today's Market?

[Secret_Informant]

As a new graduate (2018) I was not fortunate enough to gain enough experience as a pharmacist to make myself competitive for employment. This was due to personal, behavioral, and lack of understanding from peers, some preceptors (not all), and colleagues. I am also an individual with autism that graduated from pharmacy school. Now that I am seeking jobs and waiting for my Authorization to Test for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for the state of Florida, I am not sure what to be doing to network without a job or a car other than studying for both exams. I currently cannot afford to be in another state or relocate as some employers may not pay for relocation. I currently reside in the Tampa Bay Area (FL). My colleagues also refuse to understand the oversaturation that exists right now; some actually delete the posts because they are discouraging to the overall student body.

Highlights:
Pharmacy school (2014-2018)
PharmD GPA = 3.22
No residency
No recent pharmacy work experience.
Pharmacy Technician 2009-2011
P&T Competition Participation 3 times (1 local winning submission)
Rotations only. No special projects other than 1 drug monograph and 1 class review.

What are my options; changing careers is not one of them right now as it is something I cannot afford to do.

Because this is a very trying time for me, I would appreciate no troll posts or misleading advice.

---

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[johnpharm01]

As a new graduate (2018) I was not fortunate enough to gain enough experience as a pharmacist to make myself competitive for employment. This was due to personal, behavioral, and lack of understanding from peers, some preceptors (not all), and colleagues. I am also an individual with autism that graduated from pharmacy school. Now that I am seeking jobs and waiting for my Authorization to Test for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for the state of Florida, I am not sure what to be doing to network without a job or a car other than studying for both exams. I currently cannot afford to be in another state or relocate as some employers may not pay for relocation. I currently reside in the Tampa Bay Area (FL). My colleagues also refuse to understand the oversaturation that exists right now; some actually delete the posts because they are discouraging to the overall student body.

Highlights:
Pharmacy school (2014-2018)
PharmD GPA = 3.22
No residency
No recent pharmacy work experience.
Pharmacy Technician 2009-2011
P&T Competition Participation 3 times (1 local winning submission)
Rotations only. No special projects other than 1 drug monograph and 1 class review.

What are my options; changing careers is not one of them right now as it is something I cannot afford to do.

Because this is a very trying time for me, I would appreciate no troll posts or misleading advice.

If you are looking for employment, I can share with you some strategies that worked for me. This market is tough. You will need your license first, but maybe you can take on a position as a tech/intern while you wait. When you say you can't relocate does that meanout of state?

 

[Secret_Informant]

If you are looking for employment, I can share with you some strategies that worked for me. This market is tough. You will need your license first, but maybe you can take on a position as a tech/intern while you wait. When you say you can't relocate does that mean out of state?

Correct. This also includes out of the country as well, just until enough money is secured to allow for relocation. Personally, I would relocate out of FL if I had the money to pay for the licensure fees and the score transfer fees. The opioid laws are too tough and the market has not been good for me, even after earning three science degrees including a PharmD. However, I need additional resources to keep the job, having a disability and all. I'm afraid that if I go into retail, I would not be able to meet their high metrics and I will not have a job at all or enough money to choose a different career path as a pharmacist or choose a different career altogether. My peers keep deleting my posts every time the words oversaturation and job are in the same or different sentences, indicating they do not want the Facebook group morale disrupted. So I cannot turn to most of them either.

I do not have a tech license as that also costs money. The change for mandatory requirement for the hospital I used to work for in NY changed in 2011, so I was laid off (among personal reasons I do not wish to discuss). PTCB certification (national and state) costs a lot of money to afford up-front. I was offered a technician position full-time, but the time it would take to hire me would be the same amount of time to earn the pharmacist license if not longer. So I am in my grace period "graciously" waiting until the Authorization to Test (ATT) is granted by the Florida Board of Pharmacy (FLBOP). You also need to graduate from a Pharmacy Technician Program before you are even considered for licensure as a technician; those programs take at least 4 months to 1 year to complete and I have 4 months to get my license. I have 5 months left. FL also separates technician from pharmacist; if you are one, you cannot be the other. The same in NY.

Some graduate intern positions do not require a license right out, but they do want the license within 90 days of hire along with immunization certification proof; at least that is true for Walgreens. Every other place I called (hospital, corporate hospital, nuclear, retail, independent) required the license before consideration (Publix, CVS, HCA, Mayo Clinic, BayCare Health System, and any corner drug store just to mention a few examples). Positions outside of pharmacy do not require a pharmacist license; yes I have searched and applied for those too.

 

[johnpharm01]

Correct. This also includes out of the country as well, just until enough money is secured to allow for relocation. Personally, I would relocate out of FL if I had the money to pay for the licensure fees and the score transfer fees. The opioid laws are too tough and the market has not been good for me, even after earning a BS in Biology, an MS in Medical Sciences, and a PharmD. However, I need additional resources to keep the job, having a disability and all. I'm afraid that if I go into retail, I would not be able to meet their high metrics and I will not have a job at all.

I do not have a tech license as that also costs money. The change for mandatory requirement for the hospital I used to work for in NY changed in 2011, so I was laid off (among personal reasons I do not wish to discuss). PTCB certification (national and state) costs a lot of money to afford up-front. I was offered a technician position full-time, but the time it would take to hire me would be the same amount of time to earn the pharmacist license if not longer. So I am in my grace period "graciously" waiting until the Authorization to Test (ATT) is granted by the Florida Board of Pharmacy (FLBOP).

Some graduate intern positions do not require a license right out, but they do want the license within 90 days of hire along with immunization certification proof; at least that is true for Walgreens. Every other place I called (hospital, corporate hospital, nuclear, retail, independent) required the license before consideration (Publix, CVS, HCA, Mayo Clinic, and any corner drug store). Positions outside of pharmacy do not require a pharmacist license; yes I have searched and applied for those too.

I guess you have to find ANY job until you get your license. Once that occurs, I would hit the computer job boards, network with classmates, cold call pharmacies, call your rotation sites, and find any pharmacy related businesses. Eglin AFB was just hiring.

 

[Secret_Informant]

I guess you have to find ANY job until you get your license. Once that occurs, I would hit the computer job boards, network with classmates, cold call pharmacies, call your rotation sites, and find any pharmacy related businesses. Eglin AFB was just hiring.

I'm hitting the job boards like crazy, I have done cold calls before, I have only 5/7 rotation sites I can call, also studying for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for FL, but my classmates I cannot trust with full confidence. Most of them have proven that to me multiple times in pharmacy school; one even took an intern managed care position that I was gunning for, then left the next semester to take care of "schoolwork." They were later recognized by the peers and the school as an "Unsung Hero." The position was no longer available and I feel I was given the rotation at that same facility to alleviate the guilt. For pharmacy related businesses, I am not exactly sure how to proceed as I do not have a residency or conducted a project that could revitalize their business. I would have to know how their business operates and how I can best meet their needs when no one tells me anything anyways.

I would rather focus on job prospects I can control rather than on the people that failed to understand me back then (and still don't). Pharmacy may be a small world, but my world does not have to be confined to those particular people or to revolve my contacts around them. I would like to network with individuals outside of my school rather than within it as that would serve me better in applying for jobs. I would rather move forward rather than backward in time; I hope you understand how saddened I am at both the state of our profession and my own job prospects.

Their ignorance hurt me too much; it still hurts. I'm not going to let those 86 people run my life (or ruin it for that matter) or my job prospects.

 

[johnpharm01]

I'm hitting the job boards like crazy, but my classmates I cannot trust. They have proven that to me multiple times in pharmacy school. I would rather focus on job prospects I can control rather than the people that failed to understand me. I would rather move forward rather than backward in time.

Good luck. My last piece of advice would be to apply, apply, and apply. Turn no opportunity down. You may not see where a job offer comes from.

 

[dblock05]

I would start applying in areas where it is not saturated as much (yes those do exist). You said you don't want to relocate but you can apply for jobs most likely even do a phone/skype interview before you waste money to travel over there.

 

[Secret_Informant]

Good luck. My last piece of advice would be to apply, apply, and apply. Turn no opportunity down. You may not see where a job offer comes from.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "Turn no opportunity down?"

 

[Unchained]

There are a second round of medical marijuana dispensaries which will be awarded in the coming months in Pennsylvania. A pharmacist or physician is required behind the counter. Pays 100k and beats the heck out of working for the life sucking chains.

 

[Secret_Informant]

I would start applying in areas where it is not saturated as much (yes those do exist). You said you don't want to relocate but you can apply for jobs most likely even do a phone/skype interview before you waste money to travel over there.

I did not say that I did not want to relocate. I said I had no money to relocate even if the offer was granted. There are expenses involved in moving to a new job and sign-on bonuses as well as relocation funds are not guaranteed. Phone interviews would be best, though, if I have the option of being granted one. In-person interviews do not help my prospects as I am too honest and revealing with my responses, yet they are required. Also, if I wanted to relocate out of state, then I would need their license granted too. TX, NY, NC, SC, and GA are like that. Need a job before the MPJE can be paid for. There are fees for each jurisdiction and a score transfer fee for the NAPLEX for each state. If I can't land anything in FL, then my next step would have to be out-of-state.

But..thanks for the tip.

 

[Secret_Informant]

There are a second round of medical marijuana dispensaries which will be awarded in the coming months in Pennsylvania. A pharmacist or physician is required behind the counter. Pays 100k and beats the heck out of working for the life sucking chains.

I was looking into a managed care position in Philadelphia a few weeks ago and spoke with the recruiter that randomly called me, but the manager wanted 5 years experience. Funny how that works.

Residency not mentioned as a requirement.

 

[Saiyo]

You gotta find a job in the boonies buddy.
I did and it surprisingly opened up some doors for me.
100% would do again over residency.
Note: I have no friends and am not married 🙁

 

[axelz165]

Just graduated in the tampa area as well lol. Job market is ****ing awful in florida. If you're interested I can get you in contact with a CVS recruiter for florida which allowed me to get a grad intern position.

 

[johnpharm01]

Could you please clarify what you mean by "Turn no opportunity down?"

Well the more limitations you put on your job search, the less likely you are to find a job. As my dad would say beggars can't be choosers. If you were offered a job at an independent in Ybor City for $25 an hour, say I would love it when can I start.

 

[Hello2000]

Did you not read the threads about job saturation 4 years ago when you decided to study Pharmacy? The saturation threads have been going around for 10-12 years.

 

[Modest_anteater]

As a new graduate (2018) I was not fortunate enough to gain enough experience as a pharmacist to make myself competitive for employment. This was due to personal, behavioral, and lack of understanding from peers, some preceptors (not all), and colleagues. I am also an individual with autism that graduated from pharmacy school. Now that I am seeking jobs and waiting for my Authorization to Test for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for the state of Florida, I am not sure what to be doing to network without a job or a car other than studying for both exams. I currently cannot afford to be in another state or relocate as some employers may not pay for relocation. I currently reside in the Tampa Bay Area (FL). My colleagues also refuse to understand the oversaturation that exists right now; some actually delete the posts because they are discouraging to the overall student body.

Highlights:
Pharmacy school (2014-2018)
PharmD GPA = 3.22
No residency
No recent pharmacy work experience.
Pharmacy Technician 2009-2011
P&T Competition Participation 3 times (1 local winning submission)
Rotations only. No special projects other than 1 drug monograph and 1 class review.

What are my options; changing careers is not one of them right now as it is something I cannot afford to do.

Because this is a very trying time for me, I would appreciate no troll posts or misleading advice.

First off I have Autism as well. To make it worse I am also an incel. Autism is disproportionately represented in pharmacy school. Not only is this the case but if you are familiar with biological fitness, pharmacists have extremely low biological fitness. That is most women who go to pharmacy school do not have children and men that go to pharmacy school have less children then the general population.

I think pharmacy is a really good occupation for those of us with autism. I have no problem triple and quadruple checking prescriptions. In fact it's fun for me and I also enjoy doing inventory counts for fun and adjusting bottles on the shelf. If your autism is very bad I would suggest working in a LTC facility or a hospital where there will be less interaction with the public.

Now as to your question:

"No recent pharmacy work experience." This will make it hard to find a job. Along with your autism this may make you unemployable. The good thing is that you don't have to pay your loans as they are federal money, especially if they are causing you extreme stress. You WILL NOT go to jail/prison if you don't pay them. Infact nothing will happen besides you getting jerks sending you mail and calls. Just turn off your cell phone and live with your parents. Pharmacy is becoming a kinda Meme degree anyway.

With the internet today it is easy to find things to do while living at home not working. Lots of cool videos games to play to stay social with online friends. Also if your autism is disabling, then you can apply for federal disability which will pay you around 1,000 USD a month in "NEET BUCKS" which you can use to pay for ramen and buy internet games on Steam and also buy any E-girlfriends you might get cool things on Amazon.

If you do really want to find work you must find work IMMEDIATELY after passing your NAPLEX. Failure to do so will make a gap in your resume that is hard to explain away and will lead to possible employers viewing you as "damaged goods" making it very hard to find work.

If I were you I would just go into the NEET life retirement. Life is too short to be stressed out. Just live at home with your parents and with the internet you will never get bored. Money is overrated anyway. What where you going to do with all that money? buy a nice car? buy a nice house? buy a nice vacation to strange places? Money is simple not necessary in 2018 when all you need is high speed internet to be completely socially and emotionally satisfied.

 

[Saiyo]

^ This is arguably the worst and most depressing advice I have ever read on here.

 

[Secret_Informant]

Did you not read the threads about job saturation 4 years ago when you decided to study Pharmacy? The saturation threads have been going around for 10-12 years.

Honestly, I did read them; I have known since 2011. The problem is that when I mentioned these issues to my School of Pharmacy and to my peers, I was disciplined for catastrophizing behavior, not viewed as a leader by them. A Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) was initiated during my final rotation to allow me a "last chance" to address poor behaviors, indicating the faculty and the school refused to address the oversaturation. PIP plans such as these are not normally effective in addressing said behaviors even for employees, so why put that kind of pressure on a pharmacy student?

The ASDAA showed her frustration then as that decision was made by the disciplinary committee, but the plan was never initiated initiated until the final two weeks of my final PY4 rotation. My peers refused to listen to the oversaturation with the following reply: "I gotta go." Even during my PY1 year, no one seemed to care at the time. The admins of the Facebook group, after mentioning the oversaturation and the lack of jobs, removed my posts and warnings from the Facebook group when I asked who would get a job in 6 months time after graduation. I did not expect unemployment to be much lower than before nor did I expect a 48% employment rate at my university (31% if you actually calculate the figures based off of the total percentage).

From my discussions with lower level pharmacy students during my PY4 year at the same school, peers at my same school for future classes are not willing to work with other students who mention the oversaturation and deal with it by not talking to them; talk of the oversaturation is interpreted as a lack of commitment or in pharmacy school terms "a lack of understanding." There was talk that some would even choose to report me to administration simply for mentioning the oversaturation; students did not want their PY4 graduation or their job prospects spoiled. The admins are students of that school in addition to members of that group. No reason is stated as to why the admins of the group decided to remove the posts.

The schools and the ASDAA encouraged us to make ourselves vulnerable; I did. No one cared to listen to my pleas about the oversaturation. It felt like high school rather than like a professional program; other adult pharmacy students that attend the same school consider the school's policies childish, which was mentioned in a leadership conference meeting held at the university two years ago. Now, I believe no one will discuss it or even mention it now that it is posted on here. The school also chose not to have a fully online distance-learning curriculum to accommodate students with difficult to manage schedules (kids, families, and such) that Creighton, the University of Florida, and Lake Erie College of Pharmacy have, yet the school still uses SecondLife as a teaching tool for pharmaceutical counseling skills, skills I had more confidence in prior to pharmacy school but was made to feel less than confident by my peers and by my faculty. It was also the only school I got into after two interviews at top pharmacy schools. I even wrote up a faculty guide for future pharmacy students for my university as few have ever done it to use to forge my own path and for those like myself. It needs lots of work before submission.

What autistics need is real people, not an online simulated experience, to build real people-skills. The school could not provide that via a job or via educational tools, but still "encouraged" me to continue until I graduated. I am recognized by the university for my graduation, but I still feel hurt regardless of my accomplishment. Am I expected, somehow, to rely on these peers and this school for job offers and job leads when they treated me like crap almost the entire time? Doing so is not challenge, but tedium, kind of like PBMs and price transparency, residency training vs pharmacy practice experience, those who know the oversaturation and those who collectively deny its existence, and other arguments that constantly circulate with few real solutions.

School slogan: "It doesn't matter how much you know, but rather how much you care." This was mentioned by the former Phi Lambda Sigma President. I am not sure if the current Phi Lambda Sigma President will say such words later. It is very difficult to trust my peers and my faculty knowing how much I was screwed: by people I was expected to trust as future leaders.

If you have any questions about the integrity of this information, contact me via private message and we can discuss. If you want to know the school I attended, check my previous posts. They are warnings for high-school students, the new pharmacy school enrollment target group. Adult learners already know what is going on so they are either not enrolling or accepting better offers for other careers or better pharmacy schools. If pharmacy schools cannot target adult learners with their wits about them for admission, then they will target the younger students. Some posts on Indeed.com are already discussing education strategies to deter students from the careers: the schools will not consider those sources valid as they have not been "peer-reviewed:" the students will believe them rather than us. This strategy seems too aggressive, worse than when even I was in school; the marketing slogan is that the market will correct itself. Is even the market correction for pharmacists true without data to support it?

 

[Secret_Informant]

Saiyo--If you are in fact a pharmacist, then I cannot say I disagree with you. I posted information on this thread seeking help from people outside my network of peers and my university. Counting pills and verifying scripts are not the only thing pharmacists in general can do, but they are activities the majority of pharmacists do. My peers, even when made aware of my autism, only wanted to get the semester over with; I felt the same way. I feel that even reaching out for help here is considered moot as my peers may be looking at these threads. To stop posting would be a disservice to myself and the profession I chose. If anything, I may need to find work before I pass the NAPLEX. I have already taken measures for that.

So, what would be a viable solution to this dilemma? Or am I looking for answers in the wrong place?

 

[gwarm01]

I didn't get a single interview until I had my license, so make it a priority to pass the NAPLEX and MPJE. Get your license, then apply to any job your are remotely interested in.

Here was my Florida job hunting strategy. Go to Google maps, type "hospital" and zoom out to a 200 mile diameter. Open the website for every single hospital, apply to every single open job, then hope for the best. I applied to over 30 jobs and got three interviews. Not a great hit rate, but I also got three job offers.

 

[Swishers]

First off I have Autism as well. To make it worse I am also an incel. Autism is disproportionately represented in pharmacy school. Not only is this the case but if you are familiar with biological fitness, pharmacists have extremely low biological fitness. That is most women who go to pharmacy school do not have children and men that go to pharmacy school have less children then the general population.

I think pharmacy is a really good occupation for those of us with autism. I have no problem triple and quadruple checking prescriptions. In fact it's fun for me and I also enjoy doing inventory counts for fun and adjusting bottles on the shelf. If your autism is very bad I would suggest working in a LTC facility or a hospital where there will be less interaction with the public.

Now as to your question:

"No recent pharmacy work experience." This will make it hard to find a job. Along with your autism this may make you unemployable. The good thing is that you don't have to pay your loans as they are federal money, especially if they are causing you extreme stress. You WILL NOT go to jail/prison if you don't pay them. Infact nothing will happen besides you getting jerks sending you mail and calls. Just turn off your cell phone and live with your parents. Pharmacy is becoming a kinda Meme degree anyway.

With the internet today it is easy to find things to do while living at home not working. Lots of cool videos games to play to stay social with online friends. Also if your autism is disabling, then you can apply for federal disability which will pay you around 1,000 USD a month in "NEET BUCKS" which you can use to pay for ramen and buy internet games on Steam and also buy any E-girlfriends you might get cool things on Amazon.

If you do really want to find work you must find work IMMEDIATELY after passing your NAPLEX. Failure to do so will make a gap in your resume that is hard to explain away and will lead to possible employers viewing you as "damaged goods" making it very hard to find work.

If I were you I would just go into the NEET life retirement. Life is too short to be stressed out. Just live at home with your parents and with the internet you will never get bored. Money is overrated anyway. What where you going to do with all that money? buy a nice car? buy a nice house? buy a nice vacation to strange places? Money is simple not necessary in 2018 when all you need is high speed internet to be completely socially and emotionally satisfied.

By any chance, do you browse 4chan regularly? 🤣

 

[Secret_Informant]

I didn't get a single interview until I had my license, so make it a priority to pass the NAPLEX and MPJE. Get your license, then apply to any job your are remotely interested in.

Here was my Florida job hunting strategy. Go to Google maps, type "hospital" and zoom out to a 200 mile diameter. Open the website for every single hospital, apply to every single open job, then hope for the best. I applied to over 30 jobs and got three interviews. Not a great hit rate, but I also got three job offers.

I spoke with you before regarding job prospects before; you seem sincere. I searched for jobs within a 250-mile radius the month after graduation via Google and other job search tools with no interviews yet, but I have not done the Google maps strategy before. Thank you.

I will continue to do apply to Graduate Intern positions, while studying for the license, that open up within my state and non-pharmacy jobs for the time being. I will reach for out-of-state once services are granted as I cannot afford the license fees or the support in other states right now. I will keep everyone posted on my situation. It's tough waiting for that Authorization to Test (ATT). Posting about this also bores me.

However, given the circumstances, I will have to apply to a lot more than just 30 jobs, at least 5 per day will do with the occasional in-person professional follow-up. Maybe even jobs outside of pharmacy. Then, I will need a second job afterwards (maybe even another side gig) to address my student loan debt: the ideal scenario.

 

[allantois]

:troll:

 

[Saiyo]

Well my advice was already given above, but yeah your best bet, get licensed asap and apply to rural areas.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Well my advice was already given above, but yeah your best bet, get licensed asap and apply to rural areas.

Yeah but the issue with that is that rural areas are romantic suicide for young men seeking a future wife or gf.

 

[Modest_anteater]

By any chance, do you browse 4chan regularly? 🤣

no. why do you ask?

 

[Modest_anteater]

^ This is arguably the worst and most depressing advice I have ever read on here.

I don't know you if havn't been paying attention but young males 20-35 are getting completely decimated in the job market in the US and in income.

"Earlier this year, women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same. "

Young Women Make Economic Strides As Young Men Fall Behind In U.S.

The End of Men - The Atlantic

I know ten's of men living at home with their parents playing video games. The birthrate is at an all time low and due to apps like Tinder 20% of the males are getting access to 80% of the women leaving record numbers of incels out of the dating pool in the USA. It's a huge growing problem in the US and it's only going to get a lot worse. I expect around 40% of young men to be out of work / unable to find work by 2020.

The truth is men are just not good at integrating into society relative to females. We are more than 10x represented in prison, crash cars more, more vehicle fatalities, more problem drug us, more prone to violence, more prone to debilitating mental illness. In Japan they are called herbivore men or hikikomori. I honestly feel sometimes like males don't have a place in society or the work place anymore with advances in artificial insemination. I fully expect the number of incels to grow dramatically in the next time years and the violent outburst associate with them to also increase. Just 2 months ago a incel killed ten women in Toronto after years of romantic failure. Eliot Rodgers, George Sodini, ect...

Incel, the misogynist ideology that inspired the deadly Toronto attack, explained

The future is not good for beta males. Hopefully the sex doll and VR waifu technologies advance enough so that we can at least get some type of valid romantic relationship during our lifetimes.

 

[Secret_Informant]

For those of you who gave me sound advice, words cannot describe how thankful I am.

For posters who believe this is a troll thread, I wish you the best of luck in your search for a meaningful career and a better life. Reflection is necessary for those that did not give sound advice (or rambled in general about males having little job luck). We're all still learning.

For the rest of you that are taught blogs are not reliable sources of information, you will come to find that not all scientific journals are reliable sources either. The majority the information on those journals is not applicable to actual practice settings, but they do provide some useful background information for class material review. Randomized controlled trials are also expensive and time consuming, which is why not many people want to do them. Perception surveys, observational studies, and simply asking questions are much easier pathways to gain information. A variety of sources are necessary to make an informed decision both in practice and in life. Denying access to those resources and access to opportunities is wrong.

I am glad I posted this thread. I will hope it stays open so more updates can be exchanged. Thank you, SDN community, for allowing this thread to exist.

 

[Modest_anteater]

For those of you who gave me sound advice, words cannot describe how thankful I am.

For posters who believe this is a troll thread, I wish you the best of luck in your search for a meaningful career and a better life.

For the rest of you that are taught blogs are not reliable sources of information, you will come to find that not all scientific journals are reliable sources either. The majority the information on those journals is not applicable to actual practice settings. A variety of sources are necessary to make an informed decision both in practice and in life.

I am glad I posted this thread. Thank you, SDN community, for allowing this thread to exist.

You're welcome. Good luck!

 

[wagrxm2000]

I don't know you if havn't been paying attention but young males 20-35 are getting completely decimated in the job market in the US and in income.

"Earlier this year, women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same. "

Young Women Make Economic Strides As Young Men Fall Behind In U.S.

The End of Men - The Atlantic

I know ten's of men living at home with their parents playing video games. The birthrate is at an all time low and due to apps like Tinder 20% of the males are getting access to 80% of the women leaving record numbers of incels out of the dating pool in the USA. It's a huge growing problem in the US and it's only going to get a lot worse. I expect around 40% of young men to be out of work / unable to find work by 2020.

The truth is men are just not good at integrating into society relative to females. We are more than 10x represented in prison, crash cars more, more vehicle fatalities, more problem drug us, more prone to violence, more prone to debilitating mental illness. In Japan they are called herbivore men or hikikomori. I honestly feel sometimes like males don't have a place in society or the work place anymore with advances in artificial insemination. I fully expect the number of incels to grow dramatically in the next time years and the violent outburst associate with them to also increase. Just 2 months ago a incel killed ten women in Toronto after years of romantic failure. Eliot Rodgers, George Sodini, ect...

Incel, the misogynist ideology that inspired the deadly Toronto attack, explained

The future is not good for beta males. Hopefully the sex doll and VR waifu technologies advance enough so that we can at least get some type of valid romantic relationship during our lifetimes.

You're welcome. Good luck!

Um you didn't and never give sound advice

 

[Modest_anteater]

Um you didn't and never give sound advice

I think that's for secret_informant to decide not you....

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

As a new graduate (2018) I was not fortunate enough to gain enough experience as a pharmacist to make myself competitive for employment. This was due to personal, behavioral, and lack of understanding from peers, some preceptors (not all), and colleagues. I am also an individual with autism that graduated from pharmacy school. Now that I am seeking jobs and waiting for my Authorization to Test for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for the state of Florida, I am not sure what to be doing to network without a job or a car other than studying for both exams. I currently cannot afford to be in another state or relocate as some employers may not pay for relocation. I currently reside in the Tampa Bay Area (FL). My colleagues also refuse to understand the oversaturation that exists right now; some actually delete the posts because they are discouraging to the overall student body.

Highlights:
Pharmacy school (2014-2018)
PharmD GPA = 3.22
No residency
No recent pharmacy work experience.
Pharmacy Technician 2009-2011
P&T Competition Participation 3 times (1 local winning submission)
Rotations only. No special projects other than 1 drug monograph and 1 class review.

What are my options; changing careers is not one of them right now as it is something I cannot afford to do.

Because this is a very trying time for me, I would appreciate no troll posts or misleading advice.

First off, do not be discouraged. Also, pm me. I want to share my experience with you.

At the moment, i would def focus on those two exams. Not sure how much funds you have but take your time and make sure you pass your boards.

Secondly, if florida is saturated then i would def look into texas. I know you said moving is an issue for you but it shouldnt cost you too much to move to texas. Cost of living is cheap and there are still plenty of jobs (retail of course) here in texas.

Let me know if you need help.

 

[MindGeek]

I had to apply to 157 jobs over a span of 195 days before I had a full-time job offer in hand. Technically only 125 of those days were all-in, graduated, licensed, moved back, when can you start "tomorrow." In terms of student loans’ grace I was unemployed for 112 days after the end of my MBA with three licenses in hand. I only had 8 interviews (phone and in person combined) evenly spaced out during my search. My MBA instantly paid for itself since you don't need to be an R.Ph. to be in the job I started in April 2016.

All of my Pharm.D. graduation party money went to licensing, and then some. My first state including the NAPLEX and MPJE cost me $1664 (with immunizer status but not NAPLEX/MPJE test prep materials). My 2nd state (i.e. app. + first reg. + score transfer + MPJE) cost me $385. 3rd state cost me $609. 4th state cost me $807.

One thing I wish that my school had told us was that you need to pay for the NAPLEX at the time you register to be able to take the NAPLEX, not when you pick your test site/date/time. Same with the MPJE. I ended up spending $715 the day I passed my last APPE. Also, at that time NABP did not take Discover.

Adding an AACSB accredited live-in-person MBA to my Pharm.D. only cost me $32k with 7 months of opportunity cost of being out of the job market ($19,215 in tuition and $12,530 in loan refunds to live on). Luckily I started it earlier in my pharmacy career instead of saving all of it for after my Pharm.D. graduation.

Everyone need plans A, B, C, D, E, and F for finding permanent employment post-pharmacy school, so start planning early! For now @Secret_Informant don't be discouraged, just focus on passing all your exams.

 

[LightInAugust41]

There are a second round of medical marijuana dispensaries which will be awarded in the coming months in Pennsylvania. A pharmacist or physician is required behind the counter. Pays 100k and beats the heck out of working for the life sucking chains.

Mind if I ask you a few general questions about this? I am looking to pursue this route, and have a training workshop scheduled for late-July. Thanks!

 

[DruggieDoRight]

I don't know you if havn't been paying attention but young males 20-35 are getting completely decimated in the job market in the US and in income.

"Earlier this year, women became the majority of the workforce for the first time in U.S. history. Most managers are now women too. And for every two men who get a college degree this year, three women will do the same. "

Young Women Make Economic Strides As Young Men Fall Behind In U.S.

The End of Men - The Atlantic

I know ten's of men living at home with their parents playing video games. The birthrate is at an all time low and due to apps like Tinder 20% of the males are getting access to 80% of the women leaving record numbers of incels out of the dating pool in the USA. It's a huge growing problem in the US and it's only going to get a lot worse. I expect around 40% of young men to be out of work / unable to find work by 2020.

The truth is men are just not good at integrating into society relative to females. We are more than 10x represented in prison, crash cars more, more vehicle fatalities, more problem drug us, more prone to violence, more prone to debilitating mental illness. In Japan they are called herbivore men or hikikomori. I honestly feel sometimes like males don't have a place in society or the work place anymore with advances in artificial insemination. I fully expect the number of incels to grow dramatically in the next time years and the violent outburst associate with them to also increase. Just 2 months ago a incel killed ten women in Toronto after years of romantic failure. Eliot Rodgers, George Sodini, ect...

Incel, the misogynist ideology that inspired the deadly Toronto attack, explained

The future is not good for beta males. Hopefully the sex doll and VR waifu technologies advance enough so that we can at least get some type of valid romantic relationship during our lifetimes.

This has to be the strangest/saddest thing I've ever read, and I certainly didn't expect it from a pharmacist.

 

[Modest_anteater]

This has to be the strangest/saddest thing I've ever read, and I certainly didn't expect it from a pharmacist.

Well i'm a student not a pharmacist and sorry to disappoint you.

 

[Unchained]

Mind if I ask you a few general questions about this? I am looking to pursue this route, and have a training workshop scheduled for late-July. Thanks!

I don't mind. Feel free to PM me.

 

[asian pharm]

Honestly, I did read them; I have known since 2011. The problem is that when I mentioned these issues to my School of Pharmacy and to my peers, I was disciplined for catastrophizing behavior, not viewed as a leader by them. A Performance Improvement Plan (PIP) was initiated during my final rotation to allow me a "last chance" to address poor behaviors, indicating the faculty and the school refused to address the oversaturation. PIP plans such as these are not normally effective in addressing said behaviors even for employees, so why put that kind of pressure on a pharmacy student?

The ASDAA showed her frustration then as that decision was made by the disciplinary committee, but the plan was never initiated initiated until the final two weeks of my final PY4 rotation. My peers refused to listen to the oversaturation with the following reply: "I gotta go." Even during my PY1 year, no one seemed to care at the time. The admins of the Facebook group, after mentioning the oversaturation and the lack of jobs, removed my posts and warnings from the Facebook group when I asked who would get a job in 6 months time after graduation. I did not expect unemployment to be much lower than before nor did I expect a 48% employment rate at my university (31% if you actually calculate the figures based off of the total percentage).

From my discussions with lower level pharmacy students during my PY4 year at the same school, peers at my same school for future classes are not willing to work with other students who mention the oversaturation and deal with it by not talking to them; talk of the oversaturation is interpreted as a lack of commitment or in pharmacy school terms "a lack of understanding." There was talk that some would even choose to report me to administration simply for mentioning the oversaturation; students did not want their PY4 graduation or their job prospects spoiled. The admins are students of that school in addition to members of that group. No reason is stated as to why the admins of the group decided to remove the posts.

The schools and the ASDAA encouraged us to make ourselves vulnerable; I did. No one cared to listen to my pleas about the oversaturation. It felt like high school rather than like a professional program; other adult pharmacy students that attend the same school consider the school's policies childish, which was mentioned in a leadership conference meeting held at the university two years ago. Now, I believe no one will discuss it or even mention it now that it is posted on here. The school also chose not to have a fully online distance-learning curriculum to accommodate students with difficult to manage schedules (kids, families, and such) that Creighton, the University of Florida, and Lake Erie College of Pharmacy have, yet the school still uses SecondLife as a teaching tool for pharmaceutical counseling skills, skills I had more confidence in prior to pharmacy school but was made to feel less than confident by my peers and by my faculty. It was also the only school I got into after two interviews at top pharmacy schools. I even wrote up a faculty guide for future pharmacy students for my university as few have ever done it to use to forge my own path and for those like myself. It needs lots of work before submission.

What autistics need is real people, not an online simulated experience, to build real people-skills. The school could not provide that via a job or via educational tools, but still "encouraged" me to continue until I graduated. I am recognized by the university for my graduation, but I still feel hurt regardless of my accomplishment. Am I expected, somehow, to rely on these peers and this school for job offers and job leads when they treated me like crap almost the entire time? Doing so is not challenge, but tedium, kind of like PBMs and price transparency, residency training vs pharmacy practice experience, those who know the oversaturation and those who collectively deny its existence, and other arguments that constantly circulate with few real solutions.

School slogan: "It doesn't matter how much you know, but rather how much you care." This was mentioned by the former Phi Lambda Sigma President. I am not sure if the current Phi Lambda Sigma President will say such words later. It is very difficult to trust my peers and my faculty knowing how much I was screwed: by people I was expected to trust as future leaders.

If you have any questions about the integrity of this information, contact me via private message and we can discuss. If you want to know the school I attended, check my previous posts. They are warnings for high-school students, the new pharmacy school enrollment target group. Adult learners already know what is going on so they are either not enrolling or accepting better offers for other careers or better pharmacy schools. If pharmacy schools cannot target adult learners with their wits about them for admission, then they will target the younger students. Some posts on Indeed.com are already discussing education strategies to deter students from the careers: the schools will not consider those sources valid as they have not been "peer-reviewed:" the students will believe them rather than us. This strategy seems too aggressive, worse than when even I was in school; the marketing slogan is that the market will correct itself. Is even the market correction for pharmacists true without data to support it?

Looks like an inconsiderate school. Which school did you got to? I am a LECOM graduate and I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[DruggieDoRight]

Well i'm a student not a pharmacist and sorry to disappoint you.

What autistics need is real people, not an online simulated experience, to build real people-skills. The school could not provide that via a job or via educational tools, but still "encouraged" me to continue until I graduated. I am recognized by the university for my graduation, but I still feel hurt regardless of my accomplishment. Am I expected, somehow, to rely on these peers and this school for job offers and job leads when they treated me like crap almost the entire time? Doing so is not challenge, but tedium, kind of like PBMs and price transparency, residency training vs pharmacy practice experience, those who know the oversaturation and those who collectively deny its existence, and other arguments that constantly circulate with few real solutions.

Let me be perfectly clear, the school does not owe you a job. Your peers do not owe you a job. Finding a job and interacting patients is going to be very difficult for you. I recommend leaving the profession and school because from what it sounds like you don't like the job, the people, or your peers. The only thing you are doing is racking up debt.

*edit* directed at both people.

 

[Modest_anteater]

Let me be perfectly clear, the school does not owe you a job. Your peers do not owe you a job. Finding a job and interacting patients is going to be very difficult for you. I recommend leaving the profession and school because from what it sounds like you don't like the job, the people, or your peers. The only thing you are doing is racking up debt.

In your second quote you quoted Secret_informant but fraudulently listed it as my quote. You do realize trolling is against the rules of this forum, right?

 

[DruggieDoRight]

In your second quote you quoted Secret_informant but fraudulently listed it as my quote. You do realize trolling is against the rules of this forum, right?

My bad, corrected it to reflect that.

I'm a fraud in real life too lol.

 

[BidingMyTime]

^ This is arguably the worst and most depressing advice I have ever read on here.

Maybe close, but not as bad or depressing as his "pharmacists should just live in a van and bath at the YMCA" advice.

 

[Secret_Informant]

Let me be perfectly clear, the school does not owe you a job. Your peers do not owe you a job. Finding a job and interacting patients is going to be very difficult for you. I recommend leaving the profession and school because from what it sounds like you don't like the job, the people, or your peers. The only thing you are doing is racking up debt.

*edit* directed at both people.

To my understanding, you are a pharmacy student. I graduated from my pharmacy school in 2018 still awaiting the Authorization to Test (ATT), which is granted by the FLBOP once all graduation requirements are met, the application is to the satisfaction of the FLBOP, and the required forms are turned in by the school to certify graduation. I am not employed as a pharmacist yet, so I cannot say whether I would "like the job" or not. I only know what types of settings I cannot thrive in.

My goal from the beginning of my pharmacy career as a student was to seek jobs that do not require direct patient care due to the constraints I have. Those opportunities were taken by other students; there were very few opportunities that did not involve direct patient contact at my school in my areas of interest: managed care, drug information, and data analysis.

Since you believe patient care is not my forte, what suggestions do you have for me to look into pharmacist jobs that are not patient-care related? Most pharmacists go into retail either because they choose to, because they could not land any other pharmacy job, or because they are "blessed" to be there; in other words, the students truly love it instead of faking they love it for a paycheck. The word "blessed" is used to demonstrate that the pharmacist practicing was fortunate enough to receive adequate training to meet the demands of pharmacists. Not all PharmDs are pharmacists and not all pharmacists are PharmDs.

Not everyone receives that training to an equal degree, especially with the new ACPE change stating "gainful employment" as a reporting measure, not as an accountability measure. Even if the training is standardized across the board for solely the PharmD degree, not everyone receives what they need to be a pharmacist. As a student, you may want to look into training opportunities, as well as the constraints of autism and have all of your facts in order before commenting on my situation. You owe it to your future patients to do this.

If you have any suggestions for pharmacist positions, feel free to state them here. I surmise you were informed of those options in your curriculum. Otherwise you would not be assuming the entitlement mentality mentioned in your earlier post. The private discussion area only allows 420 characters per post, so this message could not be posted there. If you are on rotations, then I highly suggest you earn all As on those and make yourself indispensable to potential employers.

I provided my suggestions and recommendations in this letter and I acknowledge and understand yours. I expect you to follow mine in addition to taking your own advice. Also, based on what was posted, whose to say that I do not owe you information. I am merely discussing the 86 members of my class, not anyone else who is a pharmacist. You are broadening your scope to generally include everyone, which is not true. The less you generalize experiences, the more I will respect you as a future professional.

For now, you are a student. I choose to see you as that until the time is right. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[lord999]

To the OP:

The critical advice:
Ok, if you're going to want a noncontact pharmacy job at this point, what are your particulars for taking a job? PBM - Requires some judgment experience in the past or capacity for judgment. Analysis/informatics - Requires either substantial work experience or some IT background. Nuclear - At your stage, it would be to have been an intern. Management/business - Why did you get a PharmD in the first place as most of those jobs don't require a pharmacist background. If I were discussing this with you as a preceptor, I think you ill-used your Fourth Year time not trying to position yourself for one of those jobs, because it's well-understood that they are not common positions.

The constructive advice:
If you are going to stay in FL, this is not an industry hub, nor is it a particularly strong alternate practice area. That would be the West Coast or the Northeast (with Chicago and Minneapolis from the Midwest). Those noncontact jobs are usually concentrated there. If you don't mind taking a low paying job to start as a way to get in the door, come to DC and join one of the federal agencies in a desk capacity. If you are going true PhRMA, then your best chances if you are not networked are in Philadelphia or Piscataway.

If you're standing still and nothing is happening, then you'll need to have some motion in order to find something. Even for informatics, I'm comfortably placing my former NIH Training fellows and pharmacy residents. But, that work is not friendly as an entry matter unless the person is willing to make that change and has some self-perception. As many of the above have commented, they've had to change and take some risks about their work. They can tell their individual stories, but @gwarm01 , @Saiyo, and a couple of the informaticists on this Board have moved. Spiriva gave up some pretty easy and lucrative work to go nuclear. I gave up three years of great times earning and about ten years of my personal freedom to have what I got now.

As far as determining a path forward, I think you already know those paths, but are unsure of which to walk because of risk adversity. That, none of us can help you with because you only know what you're willing to risk and give up. And, your tolerance for failure needs to be taken into account.

As for @MindGeek, damn, that's quite a bit more than I've applied to in a lifetime even with contracting. You're certainly better at handling rejection than I am.

 

[wucool33]

I had to apply to 157 jobs over a span of 195 days before I had a full-time job offer in hand. Technically only 125 of those days were all-in, graduated, licensed, moved back, when can you start "tomorrow." In terms of student loans’ grace I was unemployed for 112 days after the end of my MBA with three licenses in hand. I only had 8 interviews (phone and in person combined) evenly spaced out during my search. My MBA instantly paid for itself since you don't need to be an R.Ph. to be in the job I started in April 2016.

All of my Pharm.D. graduation money went to licensing, and then some. My first state including the NAPLEX and MPJE cost me $1664 (with immunizer status but not NAPLEX/MPJE test prep materials). My 2nd state (i.e. app. + first reg. + score transfer + MPJE) cost me $385. 3rd state cost me $609. 4th state cost me $807.

One thing I wish that my school had told us was that you need to pay for the NAPLEX at the time you register to be able to take the NAPLEX, not when you pick your test date/time. Same with the MPJE. I ended up spending $715 the day I passed my last APPE. Also, at that time NABP did not take Discover.

Adding an AACSB accredited live-in-person MBA to my Pharm.D. only cost me $32k with 7 months of opportunity cost of being out of the job market ($19,215 in tuition and $12,530 in loan refunds to live on). Luckily I started it earlier in my pharmacy career instead of saving all of it for after my Pharm.D. graduation.

Everyone need plans A, B, C, D, E, and F for finding permanent employment post-pharmacy school, so start planning early! For now @Secret_Informant don't be discouraged, just focus on passing all your exams.

I have always wondered what you are up to now. Did your career progress in any way? Work still not pharmacy related?

 

[MindGeek]

To the OP:
As for @MindGeek, damn, that's quite a bit more than I've applied to in a lifetime even with contracting. You're certainly better at handling rejection than I am.

Thanks @lord999 . Luckily I had experience with rejection and failure before my PharmD. My 2+4 dual admission pharmacy contract during undergrad became a 3+4 because of my math and science GPA, then it was not renewed into a 4+4 so I had to compete with everyone else. During pharmacy school I narrowly failed P&T 1. Not enough fellow students also failed so there were no winter break remediation or comprehensive retake exam, and I had to repeat it the following year. Thankfully I saw the writing on the wall to start my MBA that very next semester.

I have always wondered what you are up to now. Did your career progress in any way? Work still not pharmacy related?

I am doing well thanks, @wucool33 . After two promotions in twenty two months I am finally up to entry-level full-time retail pharmacist pay when you include my performance bonus and profit sharing. When it comes time to apply for a mortgage I'm going to wish that I had made more money before I made it to manager (managing consultant), but at least I have REPAYE, two work from home days per week, twenty two PTO days, seven company holidays, Christmas to New Year's Day shutdown, company iPhone 7, company MacBook Pro, corporate card for expenses, $130/mo employee contribution towards health insurance, guaranteed 3% employer 401k contribution, the first $3,060 of my commuting is tax free, and so far all of my work travel has been within NY/NJ. Looking back it was a big adjustment jumping into management consulting to the pharmaceutical industry, even coming from a managed care APPE and an MBA program, but I have worked hard to create work-life balance at my firm and I do enjoy what I do.

 

[Secret_Informant]

To the OP:

The critical advice:
Ok, if you're going to want a noncontact pharmacy job at this point, what are your particulars for taking a job? PBM - Requires some judgment experience in the past or capacity for judgment. Analysis/informatics - Requires either substantial work experience or some IT background. Nuclear - At your stage, it would be to have been an intern. Management/business - Why did you get a PharmD in the first place as most of those jobs don't require a pharmacist background. If I were discussing this with you as a preceptor, I think you ill-used your Fourth Year time not trying to position yourself for one of those jobs, because it's well-understood that they are not common positions.

The constructive advice:
If you are going to stay in FL, this is not an industry hub, nor is it a particularly strong alternate practice area. That would be the West Coast or the Northeast (with Chicago and Minneapolis from the Midwest). Those noncontact jobs are usually concentrated there. If you don't mind taking a low paying job to start as a way to get in the door, come to DC and join one of the federal agencies in a desk capacity. If you are going true PhRMA, then your best chances if you are not networked are in Philadelphia or Piscataway.

If you're standing still and nothing is happening, then you'll need to have some motion in order to find something. Even for informatics, I'm comfortably placing my former NIH Training fellows and pharmacy residents. But, that work is not friendly as an entry matter unless the person is willing to make that change and has some self-perception. As many of the above have commented, they've had to change and take some risks about their work. They can tell their individual stories, but @gwarm01 , @Saiyo, and a couple of the informaticists on this Board have moved. Spiriva gave up some pretty easy and lucrative work to go nuclear. I gave up three years of great times earning and about ten years of my personal freedom to have what I got now.

As far as determining a path forward, I think you already know those paths, but are unsure of which to walk because of risk adversity. That, none of us can help you with because you only know what you're willing to risk and give up. And, your tolerance for failure needs to be taken into account.

As for @MindGeek, damn, that's quite a bit more than I've applied to in a lifetime even with contracting. You're certainly better at handling rejection than I am.

If I had to stay in FL and build my skills, even if the hub is not there just to get a job to pay the bills (unable to relocate) then change my options to industry later on, what would be your advice on that? I am in a financial position to where I cannot relocate: no car, no job, and no license. My student loan debt is about the same price as a mortgage in FL: slightly higher than $450K. I need a job so I can relocate later on, but I'm afraid if I choose that job (i.e. retail) I won't be able to relocate at all much less change the practice environment.

I think I answered my own question on what to do (you have as well), but I keep debating my job being lost due to factors beyond my control: downsizing, personal perception, disability perception, and many others. I need at least two jobs and $150,000 per year total to maintain an adequate standard of living at least for 5 years, which comprises a take-home pay of $2098.53 per week. That should be enough to pay for rent, utilities, and maintain the loan payments and still pursue other educational options. The second job will be working from home doing prior authorizations, medication reviews, medical writing, or online tutoring. I tutor online now, but it provides extremely low income.

If you had a student loan debt that high, how much risk would you afford to take? I do not mind paying for licensure in Illinois and Minnesota and going through the process so long as I find a job that pays enough. The primary issue is getting the job but not destroying my future career if I choose one pathway over another because I had to pay the bills.

Source of paycheck calculation: www.paycheckcity.com

 

[lord999]

If I had to stay in FL and build my skills, even if the hub is not there just to get a job to pay the bills (unable to relocate) then change my options to industry later on, what would be your advice on that? I am in a financial position to where I cannot relocate: no car, no job, and no license. My student loan debt is about the same price as a mortgage in FL: slightly higher than $450K. I need a job so I can relocate later on, but I'm afraid if I choose that job (i.e. retail) I won't be able to relocate at all much less change the practice environment.

I think I answered my own question on what to do (you have as well), but I keep debating my job being lost due to factors beyond my control: downsizing, personal perception, disability perception, and many others. I need at least two jobs and $150,000 per year total to maintain an adequate standard of living at least for 5 years, which comprises a take-home pay of $2098.53 per week. That should be enough to pay for rent, utilities, and maintain the loan payments and still pursue other educational options. The second job will be working from home doing prior authorizations, medication reviews, medical writing, or online tutoring. I tutor online now, but it provides extremely low income.

If you had a student loan debt that high, how much risk would you afford to take? I do not mind paying for licensure in Illinois and Minnesota and going through the process so long as I find a job that pays enough. The primary issue is getting the job but not destroying my future career if I choose one pathway over another because I had to pay the bills.

Source of paycheck calculation: www.paycheckcity.com

I have an observation that I could say in two words, but is expandable to saying that "You are your own worst enemy, and you are not desperate enough yet."

I took more significant negative payoffs without the debt, I left something like $700k on the table to go to graduate school. I wanted the career field that I have now that badly. I did not care if the career paid off financially, I wanted that particular career pathway's problems and not Walgreens's veteran problem (I'm not @wagrxm2000 who was both good and lucky). It did pay out, but that was not the motivation in the first place.

You want $, you're going to have to leave FL. FL pays less than the prevailing wage nationally, because they can! You will need to relocate to somewhere that pays and has jobs. If you want a multiple career path where you work doubletime, you're going to have to go to a shortage area.

But you know all this already...

Do you really want advice, because others have given relatively good strategies (relatively in the sense that no one strategy works for anyone without personal customization), or are you here to bemoan your fate? You are not going to get either freedom or security with your current problem statement, if you really want what you say you want, you are going to have to change yourself or the problem statement. Because if the latter, the decisions that you did not make are what put you in your current predicament. Keeping on that acquired helplessness will eventually make your situation truly hopeless if you do not change the problem statement. But not taking any risk, you will be hopeless where you are. You already are committed due to your level of voluntary debt. Either way, you either will pay your debt back or it will consume you.

 

[rxdawg21]

If I had to stay in FL and build my skills, even if the hub is not there just to get a job to pay the bills (unable to relocate) then change my options to industry later on, what would be your advice on that? I am in a financial position to where I cannot relocate: no car, no job, and no license. My student loan debt is about the same price as a mortgage in FL: slightly higher than $450K. I need a job so I can relocate later on, but I'm afraid if I choose that job (i.e. retail) I won't be able to relocate at all much less change the practice environment.

I think I answered my own question on what to do (you have as well), but I keep debating my job being lost due to factors beyond my control: downsizing, personal perception, disability perception, and many others. I need at least two jobs and $150,000 per year total to maintain an adequate standard of living at least for 5 years, which comprises a take-home pay of $2098.53 per week. That should be enough to pay for rent, utilities, and maintain the loan payments and still pursue other educational options. The second job will be working from home doing prior authorizations, medication reviews, medical writing, or online tutoring. I tutor online now, but it provides extremely low income.

If you had a student loan debt that high, how much risk would you afford to take? I do not mind paying for licensure in Illinois and Minnesota and going through the process so long as I find a job that pays enough. The primary issue is getting the job but not destroying my future career if I choose one pathway over another because I had to pay the bills.

Source of paycheck calculation: www.paycheckcity.com[/QUOTE


You need a job that qualifies for pslf period. How in the world does one manage to go 400k+ in debt for a 100-130k a year job. Mind boggling

 

[glhm93]

As a new graduate (2018) I was not fortunate enough to gain enough experience as a pharmacist to make myself competitive for employment. This was due to personal, behavioral, and lack of understanding from peers, some preceptors (not all), and colleagues. I am also an individual with autism that graduated from pharmacy school. Now that I am seeking jobs and waiting for my Authorization to Test for the NAPLEX and the MPJE for the state of Florida, I am not sure what to be doing to network without a job or a car other than studying for both exams. I currently cannot afford to be in another state or relocate as some employers may not pay for relocation. I currently reside in the Tampa Bay Area (FL). My colleagues also refuse to understand the oversaturation that exists right now; some actually delete the posts because they are discouraging to the overall student body.

Highlights:
Pharmacy school (2014-2018)
PharmD GPA = 3.22
No residency
No recent pharmacy work experience.
Pharmacy Technician 2009-2011
P&T Competition Participation 3 times (1 local winning submission)
Rotations only. No special projects other than 1 drug monograph and 1 class review.

What are my options; changing careers is not one of them right now as it is something I cannot afford to do.

Because this is a very trying time for me, I would appreciate no troll posts or misleading advice.

The job market is certainly tough for new pharmacists. Would you be willing to take on the night shift in a hospital setting. They are usually willing to take a chance on new grads if they are willing to stay the night shift. My other advice would be to talk to previous preceptors who can refer you to open positions in their institutions. But yes to my understanding, it’s best to focus most if not all of your energy on getting licensed. Best of luck and please know it will get better.