What possible fellowships are available after PM&R Residency

[Cassowary]

The answers online are very convoluted; for example, I read about interventional, pain, spine, regenerative, MSK, stroke, pain, and sport fellowships. However, I'm not sure if some are synonymous/combined. For example, I keep seeing sport/spine put together. Does that mean sport and spine fellowships are the same thing?
1. What are the fellowships (please include the synonyms)?
2. Which are ACGME certified?

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[cbest]

ACGME: Pain, sports, SCI, TBI, peds, neuromuscular

 

[Cassowary]

ACGME: Pain, sports, SCI, TBI, peds, neuromuscular

Which of these is associated with spine--is spine its own non-ACGME fellowship, or is it the same as sports? Is interventional spine the same thing as pain? How about regenerative spine?

 

[drg123]

Interventional spine is non-ACGME while pain is. Spine does just spine-related disease (pain being a large portion) but without the other interventional stuff that anesthesia pain does (spinal cord stim, intrathecal pumps). Also, the patient population is more narrowly targeted at spine-related pain and not all-comers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding.

 

[Cassowary]

Interventional spine is non-ACGME while pain is. Spine does just spine-related disease (pain being a large portion) but without the other interventional stuff that anesthesia pain does (spinal cord stim, intrathecal pumps). Also, the patient population is more narrowly targeted at spine-related pain and not all-comers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding.

so spine and interventional spine are the same?

 

[runfastnow]

Spine = Sports & Spine = Interventional Spine for about 90+% of what you do. Some of these practices are much more private practice based and train you but also make money off you helping see more patients/procedures/Rx while others are academic type setting one might expect in a "typical fellowship". Non-ACGME is just highly variable and you have to do your research on each place as best you can. That being said, some PM&R based ACGME sports fellowships do have some lumbar interventional spine training in addition to typical sports stuff (just not the same volume or ability to do cervical or RF type things).

 

[lobelsteve]

Interventional spine is non-ACGME while pain is. Spine does just spine-related disease (pain being a large portion) but without the other interventional stuff that anesthesia pain does (spinal cord stim, intrathecal pumps). Also, the patient population is more narrowly targeted at spine-related pain and not all-comers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding.

You are incorrect on most of your post.

 

[Cassowary]

You are incorrect on most of your post.

instead of leaving a comment like that, correct him! 😵

 

[runfastnow]

You are incorrect on most of your post.

Please correct me where I am incorrect so there isn't misinformation floating around.

Speaking from personal experience and that of colleagues which non-ACGME spine/sports and spine/interventional spine has more variability in training given the lack of ACGME check boxes/bureaucracy - both good and bad. Some variability to the highly positive (i.e. best spine interventionalist I ever worked with was non-ACGME spine trained) and some to the highly negative/abusive (one colleague abused as pill mill and one no more trained than some residents). There are good and bad fellowships everywhere no matter the accreditation - just like residencies, hospitals, MDs, etc..

 

[lobelsteve]

NASS is preparing a match for the non ACGME fellowships.
Many non-ACGME programs offer superior training to ACGME programs as they are not tethered with poor PIF written several years ago to steer the field of applicants for anesthesia. There are good and bad ACGME and non-ACGME programs.

 

[Cassowary]

NASS is preparing a match for the non ACGME fellowships.
Many non-ACGME programs offer superior training to ACGME programs as they are not tethered with poor PIF written several years ago to steer the field of applicants for anesthesia. There are good and bad ACGME and non-ACGME programs.

I don't see where any of what you said contradicted what runfastnow said

 

[nvrsumr]

Docs who do an unaccredited fellowship - no matter the thin veneer of legitimacy conferred by their spine surgeon bosses - should never complain when a NP or CRNA is hired to do their job in the future by their surgeon bosses

 

[j4pac]

You are incorrect on most of your post.

Docs who do an unaccredited fellowship - no matter the thin veneer of legitimacy conferred by their spine surgeon bosses - should never complain when a NP or CRNA is hired to do their job in the future by their surgeon bosses

 

[Bostonspine]

Docs who do an unaccredited fellowship - no matter the thin veneer of legitimacy conferred by their spine surgeon bosses - should never complain when a NP or CRNA is hired to do their job in the future by their surgeon bosses

Umm I’m not aware of any spine fellowship thought by surgeons... block shops fellowships I’ve seen are usually ran by same specialty overlords.

 

[Cassowary]

Umm I’m not aware of any spine fellowship thought by surgeons... block shops fellowships I’ve seen are usually ran by same specialty overlords.

what's a block shop

 

[raphaelaaron]

Please correct me where I am incorrect so there isn't misinformation floating around.

Speaking from personal experience and that of colleagues which non-ACGME spine/sports and spine/interventional spine has more variability in training given the lack of ACGME check boxes/bureaucracy - both good and bad. Some variability to the highly positive (i.e. best spine interventionalist I ever worked with was non-ACGME spine trained) and some to the highly negative/abusive (one colleague abused as pill mill and one no more trained than some residents). There are good and bad fellowships everywhere no matter the accreditation - just like residencies, hospitals, MDs, etc..

His quote was directed to the user above you, not yours.

 

[raphaelaaron]

Interventional spine is non-ACGME while pain is. Spine does just spine-related disease (pain being a large portion) but without the other interventional stuff that anesthesia pain does (spinal cord stim, intrathecal pumps). Also, the patient population is more narrowly targeted at spine-related pain and not all-comers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's my understanding.

This is indeed requires correction/clarification. Spine is used interchangeably with Interventional Spine or Spine and sports. Basically this is to contrast its ACGME equivalent that is Pain. While Spine fellowships are not all created equal, (as if pain fellowships are lol) many of these non ACGME spine fellowships do equivalent procedures compared to their accredited counterparts, many times even more. Aside from bread and butter ESIs this includes nerve blocks, RFA, IDET, stimulators, even Kyphoplasty, Vertebroplastys depending on who you train under. Since they are mainly physiatry based, spine fellowships also perform NCS/EMG, spasticity management. Discussing the sports/MSK aspect depending on where you go you also get experience in diagnostic ultrasound, and ultrasound guided injections or procedures like percutaneous tenotomies, hydrodissections, needle barbotage, PRP, orthobiologics.