What private allopathic schools are regarded as the lowest tier schools?

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GravityRush

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Exclude public schools.

Exclude strongly mission-based schools.

Exclude historically black schools.

Exclude Puerto Rican Schools
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What will this thread solve? What is even your definition of "lowest tier"?
 
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Harvard, Yale and Wash U.

Satisfied?

In my book, "low tier" means "more willing to take a chance on a student with a < avg stat."

GravityRush said:
Exclude public schools.

Exclude strongly mission-based schools.

Exclude historically black schools.

Exclude Puerto Rican Schools
Click to expand...
 
Excluding the types of schools you mentioned in your first post (except public schools. I included public schools), the five allopathic schools with the lowest LizzyM (GPAx10 + MCAT) scores are:

1) University of New Mexico School of Medicine - 64.7 (3.67, 28) --- (enrolls relatively high amount of Native Americans and Hispanics)
2) Marshall University Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine - 65 (3.70, 28) --- (describes itself as "non-traditional; it's not affiliated with any major research or referral hospital)
3) Central Michigan University College of Medicine- 65.1 (3.71, 28) --- (just opened in Fall 2013)
4) University of Missouri–Kansas City School of Medicine - 65.2 (3.72, 28) --- (offers unique six year dual BS/MD degree, so most students are straight out of high school)
5) University of Mississippi School of Medicine - 65.3 (3.73, 28)

Relatively low GPA and MCAT admission averages do not necessarily qualify medical schools as "low-tier", but I went ahead and did this research just in case it helps answer your question. I didn't know if you're looking to apply to schools with low GPA and MCAT or something. The MSAR is your best reference for that! Not sure if troll, though. Thanks!
 
I'm going to ignore the HBC and mission based exclusions and have no means to judge prestige, but as far as data goes for those curious here are the private institutions with the lowest MCATs (from ~31 to 27)

Loma Linda University School of Med
Creighton University School of Med
Medical College of Wisconsin
Pennsylvania State University College of Med
George Washington University School of Med
Drexel University College of Med
Rush Med College at Rush University
Frank H. Netter at Quinnipiac University
The Commonwealth Medical College
Mercer University School of Med
Meharry Medical College
Howard University College of Medicine
Morehouse School of Med

May be missing a couple.

I bet it's the same trolls using VPNs to constantly make new memberships
 
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Cyberdyne 101 said:
I'm just not a fan of the "low tier" designation. Obviously, there's a difference in selectivity between East Carolina and Vanderbilt, but I feel that there are better ways to discuss less competitive programs.
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Would changing the terminology really make anything different? And I think most people on here understand how much of a feat it is to get into any med school, period. We could come up with a PC term like "more accessible" or like goro said more willing to take a chance on low stat-ers though
 
efle said:
I'm going to ignore the HBC and mission based exclusions and have no means to judge prestige, but as far as data goes for those curious here are the private institutions with the lowest MCATs (from ~31 to 27)

Loma Linda University School of Med
Creighton University School of Med
Medical College of Wisconsin
Pennsylvania State University College of Med
George Washington University School of Med
Drexel University College of Med
Rush Med College at Rush University
Frank H. Netter at Quinnipiac University
The Commonwealth Medical College
Mercer University School of Med
Meharry Medical College
Howard University College of Medicine
Morehouse School of Med

May be missing a couple.

I bet it's the same trolls using VPNs to constantly make new memberships
Click to expand...

I'd probably at least remove the first 3 off your list considering that, acc. to MSAR, their average MCAT is 31 and average cGPA and sGPA are both 3.8 for Loma Linda, Creighton, and Medical College of Wisconsin....so if going by the data these are all pretty solid...
 
efle said:
Would changing the terminology really make anything different? And I think most people on here understand how much of a feat it is to get into any med school, period. We could come up with a PC term like "more accessible" or like goro said more willing to take a chance on low stat-ers though
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I think a lot of SDNers are obsessed with prestige (see the frequent threads about top programs) and equate a ranking with the quality of medical education. It's not about being PC, it's more about not stigmatizing certain programs. Note that med students, residents, and attendings often remind us that a school's name means very little (in most cases) when it comes to matching.

Also, as @miamiheatfan pointed out, much of this depends on the individual applicant. It's not just about numbers. There are some lower stat ORMs who end up at selective schools.
 
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They have avg MCAT of 31 or less that's why they're there.

They're plenty solid, all med schools are solid, they're just lower than the other private schools (majority of lower stat places being public)
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
I think a lot of SDNers are obsessed with prestige (see the frequent threads about top programs) and equate a ranking with the quality of medical education. It's not about being PC, it's more about not stigmatizing certain programs. Note that med students, residents, and attendings often remind us that a school's name means very little (in most cases) when it comes to matching.

Also, as @miamiheatfan pointed out, much of this is depends on the individual applicant. It's not just about numbers. There are some lower stat ORMs who end up at selective schools.
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Oh I agree, I think it's a recipe for disaster to prioritize US News BS over things like finances, location, feeling on campus etc. With you 100%

It's a game of 10-90 intervals haha, 1/5 people are some sort of exception
 
I would be thrilled to go to any one of those schools. Well except Loma Linda.. I like to drink a few beers now and again.


Sent from my iPhone
 
efle said:
They have avg MCAT of 31 or less that's why they're there.

They're plenty solid, all med schools are solid, they're just lower than the other private schools (majority of lower stat places being public)
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Are you all directly correlating selectivity with tier? eh....... that's rather weak for a number of reasons.

The whole school prestige thing really varies depending on where you're at. Sometimes it seems like everyone in the New England/Mid Atlantic regions always talked about their schools like Andy from The Office (med school included). When I lived in the Midwest, a team's football record was all that mattered.
 
WingedOx said:
Are you all directly correlating selectivity with tier? eh....... that's rather weak for a number of reasons.

The whole school prestige thing really varies depending on where you're at. Sometimes it seems like everyone in the New England/Mid Atlantic regions always talked about their schools like Andy from The Office (med school included). When I lived in the Midwest, a team's football record was all that mattered.
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Nope like I said I have no gauge of prestige, I was just putting the data out there for those curious. Aren't there schools of all levels all over the place? Didn't think people associated geographic areas with prestige like that
 
efle said:
Nope like I said I have no gauge of prestige, I was just putting the data out there for those curious. Aren't there schools of all levels all over the place? Didn't think people associated geographic areas with prestige like that
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yeah, i wasn't referring to your posts specifically... just what SDNers are going for (shouldn't have quoted your post directly)

I just find college dickishness to be greater out east. (OSU fans are rather insufferable at the moment though)
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
Where the hell are these threads coming from?
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Did you also witness the nonstop "what counts as clinical-volunteering" threads. I've only been on SDN for 3 months but those have been running rampant lately.
 
In all honesty, you have:
  1. Top 20 Schools
  2. The rest
And yes, there's a difference between the two. But when you look back 20 years into your residency, you won't care about where you went to medical school. All allopathic medical schools offer a fantastic level of education and opportunities for having a great career.
 
FutureOncologist said:
In all honesty, you have:
  1. Top 20 Schools
  2. The rest
And yes, there's a difference between the two. But when you look back 20 years into your residency, you won't care about where you went to medical school. All allopathic medical schools offer a fantastic level of education and opportunities for having a great career.
Click to expand...

something tells me you're a student in category 1. lol
 
FutureOncologist said:
In all honesty, you have:
  1. Top 20 Schools
  2. The rest
And yes, there's a difference between the two. But when you look back 20 years into your residency, you won't care about where you went to medical school. All allopathic medical schools offer a fantastic level of education and opportunities for having a great career.
Click to expand...
What makes you say this? I would say there is a continuum. When looking at metrics like avg accepted stats, NIH funding, avg step 1, residency director score, peer assessment, etc. you do not find a gigantic drop off after the 20th ranked USNews school. Rather you find that the 15-20 ranked schools are very similar to 21-30. And that there is a gradual decrease in these metrics as you go down the rankings. In addition, even the 'name' of a few of the top 20 schools are not as well-known to the general public as some of the 21-40 schools. So I do not think that there is just this huge drop off after the top 20. It's a continuum, where you don't necessarily notice a difference between schools ranked 19 and 25, but then you see a substantial difference between school 19 and school 119.

Does any of this stuff actually matter, probably not.
 
efle said:
something tells me you're a student in category 1. lol
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honestly, if there's one major advantage that top 20 schools have it's that a lot of them have P/F grading during the clinical years. I would have killed for that. It takes all the ass kissing and subjectivity out of 3rd year.
 
WingedOx said:
honestly, if there's one major advantage that top 20 schools have it's that a lot of them have P/F grading during the clinical years. I would have killed for that. It takes all the ass kissing and subjectivity out of 3rd year.
Click to expand...

I don't follow - why is there less ass kissing in clinicals when everyone comes in with P's instead of a rank?
 
Shams al Deen said:
What makes you say this? I would say there is a continuum. When looking at metrics like avg accepted stats, NIH funding, avg step 1, residency director score, peer assessment, etc. you do not find a gigantic drop off after the 20th ranked USNews school. Rather you find that the 15-20 ranked schools are very similar to 21-30. And that there is a gradual decrease in these metrics as you go down the rankings. In addition, even the 'name' of a few of the top 20 schools are not as well-known to the general public as some of the 21-40 schools. So I do not think that there is just this huge drop off after the top 20. It's a continuum, where you don't necessarily notice a difference between schools ranked 19 and 25, but then you see a substantial difference between school 19 and school 119.

Does any of this stuff actually matter, probably not.
Click to expand...

It matters tons you insufferable sub-20 plebian!

But really, for some reason even misinformed reputation means the world to some people. I have to wonder how often the better known reputation of undergrad helps the med school with places like Dartmouth
 
efle said:
I don't follow - why is there less ass kissing in clinicals when everyone comes in with P's instead of a rank?
Click to expand...

pretty much... at my school, it was Honors, High Pass, Pass, "Marginal", Fail. IIRC, Penn (right across the river) had just P/F which made me seriously jealous. To be able to not worry about appearing like a good little suckup for honors on the subjective evaluations and just worry about learning as much as possible would have been a MASSIVE stress relief.

Third year sucks.
 
efle said:
It matters tons you insufferable sub-20 plebian!

But really, for some reason even misinformed reputation means the world to some people. I have to wonder how often the better known reputation of undergrad helps the med school with places like Dartmouth
Click to expand...

Or how the lack of a basketball team hurts Rush and Jefferson...

...or the fact that UIC isn't as well known to laypeople as UIUC hurts UIC... USF and Wayne State are in a similar boat where they have (arguably) better med schools than other well-known state institutions that would otherwise be superior undergrads.
 
efle said:
It matters tons you insufferable sub-20 plebian!

But really, for some reason even misinformed reputation means the world to some people. I have to wonder how often the better known reputation of undergrad helps the med school with places like Dartmouth
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, Yale has an enormous amount of academic faculty that got their MDs at Dartmouth. Reputation is meaningless unless you're in a hair-splitting specialty, but even then, it is far less important than the student's individual performance. Lower tier schools likely have lower quality matches because their students publish less, have lower Step scores, etc, than anything to do with their school's reputation.
 
Mad Jack said:
Believe it or not, Yale has an enormous amount of academic faculty that got their MDs at Dartmouth. Reputation is meaningless unless you're in a hair-splitting specialty, but even then, it is far less important than the student's individual performance. Lower tier schools likely have lower quality matches because their students publish less, have lower Step scores, etc, than anything to do with their school's reputation.
Click to expand...

I meant more like they secure matriculation from acceptees more often because people like to say they went to an ivy league med school or something. Makes sense that residencies would know better than to put lots of weight on a name
 
efle said:
something tells me you're a student in category 1. lol
Click to expand...
Look at my MDApps.
Shams al Deen said:
What makes you say this? I would say there is a continuum. When looking at metrics like avg accepted stats, NIH funding, avg step 1, residency director score, peer assessment, etc. you do not find a gigantic drop off after the 20th ranked USNews school. Rather you find that the 15-20 ranked schools are very similar to 21-30. And that there is a gradual decrease in these metrics as you go down the rankings. In addition, even the 'name' of a few of the top 20 schools are not as well-known to the general public as some of the 21-40 schools. So I do not think that there is just this huge drop off after the top 20. It's a continuum, where you don't necessarily notice a difference between schools ranked 19 and 25, but then you see a substantial difference between school 19 and school 119.

Does any of this stuff actually matter, probably not.
Click to expand...
What I have found when doing research while applying (without the MSAR, mind you), was that below top 20 schools, you had a base average GPA of 3.59 - 3.74 (this doesn't include HBC's or small schools that were very region-biased). I didn't really apply the parameters of NIH funding, step 1 average (because not every school posts them), match lists, etc. The only thing that seemed to change was MCAT averages, which bottomed at around 28 (UMC, New Mexico, etc.)

I hope you didn't take my post offensively. What I was implying was that top 20 schools usually have a better advantage over state/public schools that have specific missions to serve a specific population. That in no way means that these schools can't help place students at top programs. Hell, Goro has had alums go to Mayo and other top programs.
 
FutureOncologist said:
Look at my MDApps.

What I have found when doing research while applying (without the MSAR, mind you), was that below top 20 schools, you had a base average GPA of 3.59 - 3.74 (this doesn't include HBC's or small schools that were very region-biased). I didn't really apply the parameters of NIH funding, step 1 average (because not every school posts them), match lists, etc. The only thing that seemed to change was MCAT averages, which bottomed at around 28 (UMC, New Mexico, etc.)

I hope you didn't take my post offensively. What I was implying was that top 20 schools usually have a better advantage over state/public schools that have specific missions to serve a specific population. That in no way means that these schools can't help place students at top programs. Hell, Goro has had alums go to Mayo and other top programs.
Click to expand...

No offense taken man! My point was that I don't understand the assertion that there are the top 10 (or 20) schools and every other school is on the same level. Average MCAT/GPA definitely don't drop off a cliff after that arbitrary 10th or 20th school if you look at MSAR, and neither does any other metric.
 
Cyberdyne 101 said:
Where the hell are these threads coming from?
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In terms of topics, it is a SDN classic/archetypal post. Most of the posts here involve the same questions over and over again. The threads become more interesting with the adcoms though as I manage to learn something new every time I read some of their posts.
 
Princeton Medical school....they don't even require an MCAT
 
ral22 said:
Princeton Medical school....they don't even require an MCAT
Click to expand...

With SDN, sometimes it is hard to tell if a poster is being serious or sarcastic. I am assuming the latter. Am I correct? I hope you are being sarcastic.
 
knv2u said:
With SDN, sometimes it is hard to tell if a poster is being serious or sarcastic. I am assuming the latter. Am I correct? I hope you are being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
Seeing as Princeton does not have a medical school yes lol
 
ral22 said:
Seeing as Princeton does not have a medical school yes lol
Click to expand...

You never know here. 😛 Many ignore the MSAR... and are here against all odds. 😉
 
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