What should I do?!

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SNDAccount

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I feel like my whole life is crashing down!

I was accepted into a 7 year BS/MD program straight out of high school and so I took the first two years pretty easy maintaining a 3.6 GPA (min is 3.5 for the program) but making sure I made the most out of my college experience. Finally third year came around and so did MCATs! I took the exam 3 TIMES (including the new 2015 MCAT)! Each time VERBAL screwed me, which is kind of ridiculous since I got a 740 on SAT Verbal! I got 7 both times I took the old MCAT and 125 with the new MCAT. The science sections were completely fine and I didn't even study too hard for them. I literally spent >5 hours some days solely on verbal for about a year and my score did not improve AT ALL! I did every MCAT Verbal book available, paid thousands of dollars for tutoring, read every article, book I could get my hands on... I tried everything!

In short, I've withdrawn from the program and feel like I've failed medical school before I've even started. I know my stats are not the worst but I doubt any medical school in the US would even consider an MCAT Verbal score of 7 (even if I am a very good writer and have shown English proficiency in other standardized tests and classes).

I want more then anything to be a medical researcher and I knew that MD/PhD, or just MD with a focus on academia would be the BEST way to reach my goals. But Verbal has completely discouraged me from even trying medical school anymore.

Please could I get some advice about what I can do? I was thinking perhaps MD abroad, PhD in the US? Join the Peace Corps for a break since I might just be really burnt out then apply to MD/PhD programs? Apply only to PhD programs?
 
Did you withdraw or were you kicked out? What was the minimum mcat requirement to stay in the program?
 
Questions to ask yourself based on my reading of your post...

How do you know you want to be a physician?

Considered DO schools?

Why not just PhD, why MD/PhD?

rachiie01 said:
What? 125 on the test is like an 8 on the old test. Your score is fine.
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I wouldn't say "fine." I would say it's possible that OP can still get admitted, but here lies the problem: we have no idea what else OP has to offer. Didn't even give us a current GPA, any EC's, etc. Equivalent of an 8 VR with in an otherwise average applicant, depending on the state, is borderline competitive. Going to need more information to fully assess OP's situation.
 
What are your overall MCAT scores???
 
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SNDAccount said:
I withdrew so that I wouldn't get a rejection, but yeah basically I got kicked out but officially I "withdrew".
Click to expand...

I dunno, I'm not an adcom, but a similar situation with a friend. He was in dental school, and withdrew to try to pursue medical school instead. now he can't get into medical school because of the withdrawal. unless you were definitely going to get kicked out for the mcat score, I would have tried to stick it out.
 
Hospitalized said:
Questions to ask yourself based on my reading of your post...

How do you know you want to be a physician?

Considered DO schools?

Why not just PhD, why MD/PhD?



I wouldn't say "fine." I would say it's possible that OP can still get admitted, but here lies the problem: we have no idea what else OP has to offer. Didn't even give us a current GPA, any EC's, etc. Equivalent of an 8 VR with in an otherwise average applicant, depending on the state, is borderline competitive. Going to need more information to fully assess OP's situation.
Click to expand...

My GPA currently is 3.61, I can maybe raise it to 3.7 with a full year of classes next year. I have four publications in high medical journals, I'm in a sorority and have done volunteer work with tutoring and mentoring for children in a homeless shelter, I have other lab research experience with a poster, I will be presenting in a conference. I don't have hospital volunteer work yet because I've always been more passionate about research.

I want to get an MD to get into the academic field because being a CLINICAL researcher becomes much much more difficult when you don't have an MD. Yes, I can do it through a PhD but I don't want to give up my MD dream unless I have absolutely no chance. What do you think?

I come from a family of physicians so I don't have a romanticized view of being a doctor. I know its tough and the lifestyle pretty much sucks. I know I have enough smarts to do well as a physician but I also know how meaningful this degree can be for me to achieve what I want.
 
MD/PhD programs are even more difficult to get in, and you would need phenomenal MCAT scores to even be considered for that.
 
genericpremedstudent said:
I dunno, I'm not an adcom, but a similar situation with a friend. He was in dental school, and withdrew to try to pursue medical school instead. now he can't get into medical school because of the withdrawal. unless you were definitely going to get kicked out for the mcat score, I would have tried to stick it out.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would have been kicked out for sure. I definitely would have stayed if there was any way I could.
 
DarthKat said:
What are your overall MCAT scores???
Click to expand...

I got 10/7/11 first time, 10/7/10 second time, and 127/125/126/125 for the new MCAT which is the physical sciences/ CARS/ biological sciences/ social sciences.
 
mathnerd88 said:
MD/PhD programs are even more difficult to get in, and you would need phenomenal MCAT scores to even be considered for that.
Click to expand...


Yes, but I was thinking of getting an MD then afterwards pursuing a PhD.
 
SNDAccount said:
I needed a 29- 10/9/10. I needed a minimum of 9 in verbal.
Click to expand...

Well, if it was an absolute certainty that you would be kicked out, then withdrawing from the program was the best decision you could've done. At this point, I would try to get good grades, and graduate with a high GPA. You should be totally fine with applying to DO schools.
 
SNDAccount said:
Yes, but I was thinking of getting an MD then afterwards pursuing a PhD.
Click to expand...

Now that is probably one of the worst things you can do for yourself financially. The timing would be excruciating.

You won't get the benefit of your tuition expenses being waived pursuing a PhD. You'll have piling interest rates as you're pursuing your PhD.

What might work is to get your PhD first, and then go to MD. It is much harder to go MD first than PhD, so I would recommend getting your PhD, and then later pursue MD. MD adcoms do favor those with higher degrees, so PhD can be used to your benefit.
 
mathnerd88 said:
Now that is probably one of the worst things you can do for yourself financially. The timing would be excruciating.

You won't get the benefit of your tuition expenses being waived pursuing a PhD. You'll have piling interest rates as you're pursuing your PhD.

What might work is to get your PhD first, and then go to MD. It is much harder to go MD first than PhD, so I would recommend getting your PhD, and then later pursue MD. MD adcoms do favor those with higher degrees, so PhD can be used to your benefit.
Click to expand...

Do PhD's have a better chance at getting into MD schools? Especially if I'm magically able to improve my verbal score by this time? Also, do you know how difficult PhD programs are to get into?
 
genericpremedstudent said:
I dunno, I'm not an adcom, but a similar situation with a friend. He was in dental school, and withdrew to try to pursue medical school instead. now he can't get into medical school because of the withdrawal. unless you were definitely going to get kicked out for the mcat score, I would have tried to stick it out.
Click to expand...

What's he up to now?
 
SNDAccount said:
Do PhD's have a better chance at getting into MD schools? Especially if I'm magically able to improve my verbal score by this time? Also, do you know how difficult PhD programs are to get into?
Click to expand...

PhD programs are not nearly as difficult to get accepted as MD programs. You just need to take the GRE's (a joke compared to MCAT.) Yes, PhD's have a better chance at getting into MD schools because it means they are more educated and gain more maturity than the traditional MD applicant.
 
amazing tekkers said:
What's he up to now?
Click to expand...

Well after that he got a DUI so now he will never get into med school. LOL. Shame too, he was an extremely competitive applicant.

Edit: not sure if he reads this forum or not. but without giving too much away, he was going to dental school using the HPSP program and had to petition to quit the program. which I think (not certain) gave him a dishonorable discharge and also required him to repay the tuition.
 
I obviously meant that the score of 125 on CARS was fine, not the total score since that wasn't mentioned. Scoring 125 on CARS isn't going to keep you out of medical school like the original post implied, but a total score of 503 will keep you out of MD.
 
SNDAccount said:
My GPA currently is 3.61, I can maybe raise it to 3.7 with a full year of classes next year. I have four publications in high medical journals, I'm in a sorority and have done volunteer work with tutoring and mentoring for children in a homeless shelter, I have other lab research experience with a poster, I will be presenting in a conference. I don't have hospital volunteer work yet because I've always been more passionate about research.

I want to get an MD to get into the academic field because being a CLINICAL researcher becomes much much more difficult when you don't have an MD. Yes, I can do it through a PhD but I don't want to give up my MD dream unless I have absolutely no chance. What do you think?

I come from a family of physicians so I don't have a romanticized view of being a doctor. I know its tough and the lifestyle pretty much sucks. I know I have enough smarts to do well as a physician but I also know how meaningful this degree can be for me to achieve what I want.
Click to expand...

Do you want to treat patients, though? Because it that's not something you're really excited to do, then maybe just go for your PhD and see how you feel afterwards. You might find that you're happy doing research without the MD.
 
Cotterpin said:
Do you want to treat patients, though? Because it that's not something you're really excited to do, then maybe just go for your PhD and see how you feel afterwards. You might find that you're happy doing research without the MD.
Click to expand...

That is true. I'm not particularly "passionate" about treating patients but I've been conditioned from a very young age that a medical degree in invaluable. Pretty much everyone around me keeps insisting that I might as well just give up on life if I stop trying to get an MD as soon as possible.
 
genericpremedstudent said:
Well after that he got a DUI so now he will never get into med school. LOL. Shame too, he was an extremely competitive applicant.

Edit: not sure if he reads this forum or not. but without giving too much away, he was going to dental school using the HPSP program and had to petition to quit the program. which I think (not certain) gave him a dishonorable discharge and also required him to repay the tuition.
Click to expand...

That's awful. It's these kinds of things you regret when you're middle aged and haven't accomplished much in life, you always look back on what could have been and what you should have done (see Walter White). Oh well, who knows where life will take us, maybe he'll start his own restaurant franchise and make millions from that.
 
amazing tekkers said:
That's awful. It's these kinds of things you regret when you're middle aged and haven't accomplished much in life, you always look back on what could have been and what you should have done (see Walter White). Oh well, who knows where life will take us, maybe he'll start his own restaurant franchise and make millions from that.
Click to expand...

Lol, probably. I resent them already but they are so stubborn, my options are either lose my family or listen to them silently. What I hate is that I know I'm a motivated, passionate student (I got into the BS/MD program, did really well in high school, did pretty well in college). They just don't trust that I can be more successful and happier in other ways then medicine. Even if I do eventually scratch and crawl my way into becoming an MD, I will probably be a crappy doctor since the efforts were never sincere.

Walter White will own a restaurant franchise? Doesn't he die in the series?
 
SNDAccount said:
That is true. I'm not particularly "passionate" about treating patients but I've been conditioned from a very young age that a medical degree in invaluable. Pretty much everyone around me keeps insisting that I might as well just give up on life if I stop trying to get an MD as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Well... that's understandable if your whole family is doctors. But they're wrong. I'm sure I'm a bit older than you, so I will tell you that my family is very different from yours and I grew up with everybody telling me that I was going to be an artist. So I followed along a path that I wasn't passionate about and ended up dropping out of art school and being miserable for about ten years. When I finally found (almost accidentally) that I am passionate about medicine and treating patients, my whole life and outlook changed and I'm 1000% happier now. My only regret is that I let other people's expectations for me push me in a direction that I didn't really care about.

So you're really passionate about research. That's awesome. I wish that I had been passionate about something when I was college aged. Research is totally worthwhile and it will not ruin your life if you don't become an MD. In fact, it might save you from a lot of unhappiness if you do skip med school and just do what you really love. There are post-graduate and PhD degrees in clinical research if that's what you have your heart set on.

I think you should try to get some clinical experience like volunteering or shadowing in a hospital and see how you feel. If you try it and don't completely love the idea of being a doctor, then talk to your family.
 
God I'm so glad my family is supportive of me no matter what I choose to do with my life lol
 
Cotterpin said:
Well... that's understandable if your whole family is doctors. But they're wrong. I'm sure I'm a bit older than you, so I will tell you that my family is very different from yours and I grew up with everybody telling me that I was going to be an artist. So I followed along a path that I wasn't passionate about and ended up dropping out of art school and being miserable for about ten years. When I finally found (almost accidentally) that I am passionate about medicine and treating patients, my whole life and outlook changed and I'm 1000% happier now. My only regret is that I let other people's expectations for me push me in a direction that I didn't really care about.

So you're really passionate about research. That's awesome. I wish that I had been passionate about something when I was college aged. Research is totally worthwhile and it will not ruin your life if you don't become an MD. In fact, it might save you from a lot of unhappiness if you do skip med school and just do what you really love. There are post-graduate and PhD degrees in clinical research if that's what you have your heart set on.

I think you should try to get some clinical experience like volunteering or shadowing in a hospital and see how you feel. If you try it and don't completely love the idea of being a doctor, then talk to your family.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry about that. I felt very similar since I really do want to maintain a good relationship with my family and I easily give in to their wishes to make them happy. But if I have to wake up and live each day of my life, I need to do what is right for me. I've already set up some contacts to shadow some physicians so hopefully that will give me a better perspective.

Thank you!
 
mathnerd88 said:
PhD programs are not nearly as difficult to get accepted as MD programs. You just need to take the GRE's (a joke compared to MCAT.) Yes, PhD's have a better chance at getting into MD schools because it means they are more educated and gain more maturity than the traditional MD applicant.
Click to expand...
A medical school application is neither helped nor hindered by a PhD.
An older candidate is often more emotionally mature, but the PhD is incidental to this maturation.
 
gyngyn said:
A medical school application is neither helped nor hindered by a PhD.
An older candidate is often more emotionally mature, but the PhD is incidental to this maturation.
Click to expand...
I imagine for research-heavy schools it's a big plus to have a PhD though?
 
gyngyn said:
A medical school application is neither helped nor hindered by a PhD.
An older candidate is often more emotionally mature, but the PhD is incidental to this maturation.
Click to expand...

So if MCAT and GPA are the most important factors, would an improved MCAT score and a 3.7 gpa be adequate to get accepted into a medical school? I want to join the Peace Corps for 2 years and plan on using this time to slowly figure out where I'm going wrong on verbal and improve to get a much better MCAT score (506+). Would this be the best way to make myself competitive for MD programs? (regardless of PhD).
 
efle said:
I imagine for research-heavy schools it's a big plus to have a PhD though?
Click to expand...
Although we get quite a few PhD applicants, they are judged by the same standards as the rest of the pool and most of them (like the rest of the pool) are not interviewed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SNDAccount said:
So if MCAT and GPA are the most important factors, would an improved MCAT score and a 3.7 gpa be adequate to get accepted into a medical school? I want to join the Peace Corps for 2 years and plan on using this time to slowly figure out where I'm going wrong on verbal and improve to get a much better MCAT score (506+). Would this be the best way to make myself competitive for MD programs? (regardless of PhD).
Click to expand...
Don't plan to make huge gains in Verbal, it's by far the most resistant to improvement from studying/retaking

gyngyn said:
It's interesting. Although, we get quite a few PhD applicants, they are judged by the same standards as the rest of the pool and most of them (like the rest of the pool) are not interviewed.
Click to expand...
Does a different set of things tend to keep them out? I imagine they probably didn't plan on MD originally and would have less stellar GPAs
 
I honestly don't think verbal/CARS is your problem.

The new bio/biochem section is likely going to be the most important section, similar to the old bio section, and your score of 126 will be low for MD. If you could keep your verbal the same and improve your other three sections (mainly the first and third), that would be your best bet.
 
SNDAccount said:
I'm sorry about that. I felt very similar since I really do want to maintain a good relationship with my family and I easily give in to their wishes to make them happy. But if I have to wake up and live each day of my life, I need to do what is right for me. I've already set up some contacts to shadow some physicians so hopefully that will give me a better perspective.

Thank you!
Click to expand...

Good luck! 🙂
 
rachiie01 said:
I honestly don't think verbal/CARS is your problem.

The new bio/biochem section is likely going to be the most important section, similar to the old bio section, and your score of 126 will be low for MD. If you could keep your verbal the same and improve your other three sections (mainly the first and third), that would be your best bet.
Click to expand...

Ok thanks, I spent maybe a few days on bio studying since I was scoring above 127, one time a 129 on the practice TPR tests. But yeah, I think I can easily improve these three sections and try and keep my verbal score.
 
can you explain why you're so focussed on the "MD" when you clearly don't want to practice?? A PhD alone is much more useful for a research career anyway.
 
You can apply to DO schools you know...
 
SNDAccount said:
Lol, probably. I resent them already but they are so stubborn, my options are either lose my family or listen to them silently. What I hate is that I know I'm a motivated, passionate student (I got into the BS/MD program, did really well in high school, did pretty well in college). They just don't trust that I can be more successful and happier in other ways then medicine. Even if I do eventually scratch and crawl my way into becoming an MD, I will probably be a crappy doctor since the efforts were never sincere.

Walter White will own a restaurant franchise? Doesn't he die in the series?
Click to expand...
You say this, and you want us to encourage you to pursue medicine? Go work for a few years and find out what you want to be, please.
 
DO/PhD at MSUCOM, TCOM or the other DO schools that offer the combined programs.





SNDAccount said:
I feel like my whole life is crashing down!

I was accepted into a 7 year BS/MD program straight out of high school and so I took the first two years pretty easy maintaining a 3.6 GPA (min is 3.5 for the program) but making sure I made the most out of my college experience. Finally third year came around and so did MCATs! I took the exam 3 TIMES (including the new 2015 MCAT)! Each time VERBAL screwed me, which is kind of ridiculous since I got a 740 on SAT Verbal! I got 7 both times I took the old MCAT and 125 with the new MCAT. The science sections were completely fine and I didn't even study too hard for them. I literally spent >5 hours some days solely on verbal for about a year and my score did not improve AT ALL! I did every MCAT Verbal book available, paid thousands of dollars for tutoring, read every article, book I could get my hands on... I tried everything!

In short, I've withdrawn from the program and feel like I've failed medical school before I've even started. I know my stats are not the worst but I doubt any medical school in the US would even consider an MCAT Verbal score of 7 (even if I am a very good writer and have shown English proficiency in other standardized tests and classes).

I want more then anything to be a medical researcher and I knew that MD/PhD, or just MD with a focus on academia would be the BEST way to reach my goals. But Verbal has completely discouraged me from even trying medical school anymore.

Please could I get some advice about what I can do? I was thinking perhaps MD abroad, PhD in the US? Join the Peace Corps for a break since I might just be really burnt out then apply to MD/PhD programs? Apply only to PhD programs?
Click to expand...
 
I don't see an MD/PhD in your future. They tend to have much higher MCAT scores than the average applicant and I doubt most of those took 4 tries to get there.
If you're not that interested in patients I echo the idea of PhD first. Usually if you teach you get that degree for free. Makes much more sense to get that and then MD than the other way around.
 
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