PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
I graduated from college with a 2.3 GPA from UMD 1.5 years ago and I am now very interested in becoming a doctor. (I never studied in college :oops:)

Since my GPA is really really low should I do a formal post-bacc or should I do an informal post-bacc -- meaning go back to undergrad and get another degree (2.5 years to attain this)?

I have read really good things about formal post-bacc @ Goucher. But since my GPA is so low I most likely will not be admitted to their program. What can I do to get accepted to their program?

What route do I need to take that will maximize my chances to get into medical school?
 

jslo85

Resident
7+ Year Member
Jan 27, 2010
826
8
Chicago
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Honestly, you won't be able to do anything realistically to be accepted into Goucher. That goes for Scrippts, JHU, Bryn Mawr, UConn, Mills, UPenn, UVA or Columbia. Though the last three would be easier than the first five, your GPA is far below what most formal programs would be willing to look at. If you had to go to a formal program, I'd take a look at HES or perhaps SFSU.

I would just do the informal post-bacc at a local 4 year university and use the extra time that you have to start building your CV while prepping for the MCAT. The slight upside to your situation is your sGPA is nonexistent right now so you do start from a clean slate in that regard. I really can't stress how important it is for you to obtain a 3.5+ in the medical pre-reqs and obtaining a solid MCAT score especially in your scenario.
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]
forget penn with that gpa.

informal program is your only hope at this point
 

DrMidlife

has an opinion
10+ Year Member
Oct 30, 2006
7,506
2,601
Status
Resident [Any Field]

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
Retake your classes. Get A's. Do well on MCAT. Apply DO.
 

DrMidlife

has an opinion
10+ Year Member
Oct 30, 2006
7,506
2,601
Status
Resident [Any Field]
How old are you? I'm curious based on your profile numbers and history and if you have been accepted anywhere?
I'm a cautionary tale. Got an acceptance. Got cancer. Got better. Now I'm in an SMP. I expect to be in med school for real next year at 45.
 
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
Retake your classes. Get A's. Do well on MCAT. Apply DO.

I plan on doing another 2 years and getting a second degree this time in Biology, do well on my MCATs and if necessary do an SMP. I'm aiming for an MD not DO.

How does this sound?

I can't retake my classes as I've used up all my retake credit limits.
 
Last edited:

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
I plan on doing another 2 years and getting a second degree this time in Biology, do well on my MCATs and if necessary do an SMP. I'm aiming for an MD not DO.

How does this sound?

I can't retake my classes as I've used up all my retake credit limits.
You won't get into MD. The only reason you even have a chance at DO is because they allow for grade replacement if you take the same class again and do better in it. And that chance is contingent upon doing very well in all your retakes.

When I say retake the class, I don't mean do an official retake through the school. No. You retake that same ****ing class at a different school, like a community college or another university. That's your only realistic option. The SMP won't help you.
 

NewmansOwn

10+ Year Member
Dec 21, 2007
784
3
Status
Resident [Any Field]
You won't get into MD. The only reason you even have a chance at DO is because they allow for grade replacement if you take the same class again and do better in it. And that chance is contingent upon doing very well in all your retakes.

When I say retake the class, I don't mean do an official retake through the school. No. You retake that same ****ing class at a different school, like a community college or another university. That's your only realistic option. The SMP won't help you.
Since the OP expressed interest in Goucher, I'm thinking (s)he did has not yet taken the prereqs.

OP, your plan is on the right track, but perhaps a bit overly optimistic. Is it possible to get a new bachelor's degree in 2 years? And that will not cancel out your previous degree. All these years of extra schooling will simply be calculated along with your previous 4 years of schooling. So even if you do 4 years, full-time, of classes, and somehow manage to get all As, your new GPA will be 3.15 -- with the upward trend, enough to give you the slightest glimmers of hope at an MD school, at best. DO schools tend to be a bit more forgiving -- it's worth a look, rather than an immediate write-off.
 

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
Since the OP expressed interest in Goucher, I'm thinking (s)he did has not yet taken the prereqs.

OP, your plan is on the right track, but perhaps a bit overly optimistic. Is it possible to get a new bachelor's degree in 2 years? And that will not cancel out your previous degree. All these years of extra schooling will simply be calculated along with your previous 4 years of schooling. So even if you do 4 years, full-time, of classes, and somehow manage to get all As, your new GPA will be 3.15 -- with the upward trend, enough to give you the slightest glimmers of hope at an MD school, at best. DO schools tend to be a bit more forgiving -- it's worth a look, rather than an immediate write-off.
The upward trend won't do squat. It's all about the final GPA. Whether he took the pre-reqs or not is irrelevant. He has too many credits with such a low GPA to be able to recover. The only shot he has is DO, and that's only if he basically gets straight A's for several years.
 
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
Since the OP expressed interest in Goucher, I'm thinking (s)he did has not yet taken the prereqs.

OP, your plan is on the right track, but perhaps a bit overly optimistic. Is it possible to get a new bachelor's degree in 2 years? And that will not cancel out your previous degree. All these years of extra schooling will simply be calculated along with your previous 4 years of schooling. So even if you do 4 years, full-time, of classes, and somehow manage to get all As, your new GPA will be 3.15 -- with the upward trend, enough to give you the slightest glimmers of hope at an MD school, at best. DO schools tend to be a bit more forgiving -- it's worth a look, rather than an immediate write-off.
You are right I have not taken pre-reqs. Another degree would be 2 years at the same university as I would only be taking the major courses and nothing more as the rest of my requirements have already been completed.

This second degree will not cancel out my previous degree. But if the adcomms look at my new degree (different major - biology) grades which will be entirely of science courses and suppose I do manage to get a 3.8 - 4.0 GPA in this new degree (although my cumulative would be 2.8 - 3.0) and get mid thirty's on my MCATs and an SMP I should have a decent shot at MD.
 
Last edited:
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
You won't get into MD. The only reason you even have a chance at DO is because they allow for grade replacement if you take the same class again and do better in it. And that chance is contingent upon doing very well in all your retakes.

When I say retake the class, I don't mean do an official retake through the school. No. You retake that same ****ing class at a different school, like a community college or another university. That's your only realistic option. The SMP won't help you.
I'm not retaking these classes no matter what at any institution. Its just out of the question.
 

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
I'm not retaking these classes no matter what at any institution. Its just out of the question.
I don't care. Look into nursing school, because you won't be getting into medical school. Ain't easy bro, otherwise everyone would be doing it!
 

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
You are right I have not taken pre-reqs. Another degree would be 2 years at the same university as I would only be taking the major courses and nothing more as the rest of my requirements have already been completed.

This second degree will not cancel out my previous degree. But if the adcomms look at my new degree (different major - biology) grades which will be entirely of science courses and suppose I do manage to get a 3.8 - 4.0 GPA in this new degree (although my cumulative would be 2.8 - 3.0) and get mid thirty's on my MCATs and an SMP I should have a decent shot at MD.
Wrong. There's no distinction between degrees on the app. Your app won't even be looked at because your GPA will be too low. Sorry dude.
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
You quoted a massive thread where most of the people didnt make it to med school

If you wont repeat your classes then forget MD, and go DO. If you want MD, then youll need to repeat classes you did poorly in, rock a post-bac, and still prob have to do an SMP
No. No. No.

If you don't repeat your classes, you will not get into any medical school.

If you repeat them (and get A's), you will still not get into MD, but will have a chance at DO.

Post-baccs are for suckers. Good way to get further in debt and still not get into medical school.

Ignore me at your peril OP. I know this subject very well. Very well.
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Sideways - I did a post-bac and am currently sitting on 2 MD acceptances and a DO acceptance. So no, post-bacs are not for suckers and they do get you into medical school.
The OP might have a shot at DO if they don't repeat those classes - MIGHT being the operative word there.

Perspective - you are citing an Israeli study. Not sure how translatable it is. And to be frank, your GPA is so terrible, that you can motivated and determined all you want but you've yet to prove you can do anything more than C+ work.
 

sideways

Removed
Aug 8, 2009
1,669
12
Status
Medical Student
Sideways - I did a post-bac and am currently sitting on 2 MD acceptances and a DO acceptance. So no, post-bacs are not for suckers and they do get you into medical school.
Too complicated to argue this point. Suffice it to say, they aren't getting the OP into medical school. No way in hell.
 
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
Too complicated to argue this point. Suffice it to say, they aren't getting the OP into medical school. No way in hell.
For the 2008 - 2010 Application Cycle with GPA of 3.00 - 3.10 there were 2, 119 total acceptances to Medical Schools. 566 with MCATS of 27 - 29.

For the 2008 - 2010 Application Cycle with GPA of 2.80 - 2.99 there were 754 total acceptances to Medical Schools.

For the 2008 - 2010 Application Cycle with GPA of 2.20 - 2.39 there were 20 total acceptances to Medical Schools.



https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

:love:
 
Last edited:
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
If I pull a 3.8 - 4.0 in my second degree. Get 30ish something on my MCAT. Possibly an SMP I have a shot at MD. :)

I think the adcomms will look at anyone's application despite medicore GPA if they see an MCAT score of 30 or above. They then will look at my transcript and will see the disparity in grades from my first degree and my second degree (solely science classes including pre-reqs) and understand I made a big turnaround, which I will explain in my Personal Statement.
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]
You just dont get it - the numbers you quoted are substantially influenced by URM or heavy in-state bias.

Are you a URM or from somewhere like Lousiana?

If not, then those numbers dont help you

Also, do the math to get an idea of what your GPA will be provided you suddenly go from a C+ student to an A- student, and see what your GPA would actually be other than just guessing like you are now.

And, dont count on getting like 35+ on the MCAT.
 
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
You just dont get it - the numbers you quoted are substantially influenced by URM or heavy in-state bias.

Are you a URM or from somewhere like Lousiana?

If not, then those numbers dont help you

Also, do the math to get an idea of what your GPA will be provided you suddenly go from a C+ student to an A- student, and see what your GPA would actually be other than just guessing like you are now.

And, dont count on getting like 35+ on the MCAT.
I'm not a URM but I still have a good shot at Med School provided I do very well on my next degree and very well on the MCAT.
 

DrMidlife

has an opinion
10+ Year Member
Oct 30, 2006
7,506
2,601
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I'm not a URM but I still have a good shot at Med School provided I do very well on my next degree and very well on the MCAT.
Why would you bother to ask "what should I do?" if you don't want any advice?
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]
You dont have a good shot at a medical school by any stretch of the imagination.

As Midlife said, you think you know what you are doing, so why even ask for advice? I am done wasting my time on you.

You wont make it to a US med school, and you wont return to tell us we were right.
 
OP
PerspectiveDoc

PerspectiveDoc

Removed
Oct 29, 2010
38
0
Status
You dont have a good shot at a medical school by any stretch of the imagination.
The operative word being "shot." I still have one. :love:

You wont make it to a US med school, and you wont return to tell us we were right.
You are right. I won't return to tell you you were right because the next time you will see me is when I am the Chair of ICU that you will be working in. :love:
 

420

Aug 30, 2010
26
0
Status
Non-Student
robflanker and drmidlife, do you think it's possible for me to get into a med school at any point? i graduated UCSD biochemistry/chemistry GPA 2.9 cumulative this past june. I want to get into any post-bacc program as soon as possible (in california due to financial constraints) so I can move forward. I'm attracted to the idea of post-bacc because I haven't taken the MCAT yet and it's not really required (from what I understand). realistically, is it possible (or probable) for me to make it? i'm looking into the UC and CSU post-bacc programs; I don't consider myself underrepresented/socially disadvantaged, but i'm willing to try to persuade myself in. do I have a shot? please give me a realistic advice. thanks.


also, I don't care if i end up at RossU or become DO. I just want to be a doctor.
 

DrMidlife

has an opinion
10+ Year Member
Oct 30, 2006
7,506
2,601
Status
Resident [Any Field]
robflanker and drmidlife, do you think it's possible for me to get into a med school at any point? i graduated UCSD biochemistry/chemistry GPA 2.9 cumulative this past june. I want to get into any post-bacc program as soon as possible (in california due to financial constraints) so I can move forward. I'm attracted to the idea of post-bacc because I haven't taken the MCAT yet and it's not really required (from what I understand). realistically, is it possible (or probable) for me to make it? i'm looking into the UC and CSU post-bacc programs; I don't consider myself underrepresented/socially disadvantaged, but i'm willing to try to persuade myself in. do I have a shot? please give me a realistic advice. thanks.


also, I don't care if i end up at RossU or become DO. I just want to be a doctor.
What you need is a reasonably competitive cumulative undergrad GPA. You can improve that GPA by taking more coursework and doing better. You can do this at any university that will let you - you don't have to do a structured program.

If you are cool with DO, then you can retake classes (doesn't matter whether you retake at the same school or not). In this case, your GPA for DO school will rise faster than your GPA for MD school.

I recommend reading lots more in this forum for better context on your options. I also recommend doing math to see what more coursework will do to your GPA (spreadsheets are good for this).

Also 420 is probably part of the problem here.

Best of luck to you.
 

420

Aug 30, 2010
26
0
Status
Non-Student
What you need is a reasonably competitive cumulative undergrad GPA. You can improve that GPA by taking more coursework and doing better. You can do this at any university that will let you - you don't have to do a structured program.

If you are cool with DO, then you can retake classes (doesn't matter whether you retake at the same school or not). In this case, your GPA for DO school will rise faster than your GPA for MD school.

I recommend reading lots more in this forum for better context on your options. I also recommend doing math to see what more coursework will do to your GPA (spreadsheets are good for this).

Also 420 is probably part of the problem here.

Best of luck to you.
thank you for your input. I remember being told that after graduation, I'm no longer allowed to take any more classes at SD. I suppose I can take the classes at a state university or community college. Most of my classes were pretty peculiar because my major was from the Chemistry Department (not bio) so I'm missing alot of relevant courses for med school such as physiology or human biology. All my classes (except biochemistry series) are pretty irrelevant to biology (inorganic, physical chem).

with that said, do you think it'd be better to take human bio, physiology, etc. classes or should I retake physical chem and stuff like that? I got mostly B's on those. I don't think it'll make a significant change to my overall GPA.

I feel more comfortable taking a formal program because I need help gaining experience (clinical, volunteer, etc.) All those things I had access to, I never took advantage of while I was an undergrad. I won't make the same mistake twice.

What do you think? more input will be appreciated.

ps. just out of curiosity (not that it matters), what are the salary differences between a DO and MD?
 

420

Aug 30, 2010
26
0
Status
Non-Student
what is the reason for this?
you can't just stick around and take classes forever. it's a public school and every year they admit students way more than they can accommodate for. after graduation, they kick you out.

When I was a freshman, they crammed 3 people in every small room that was meant for 1-2 people. also, some unlucky admits had to find housing offcampus as a freshman. it's just how it is. i blame insufficient state budget (to build more buildings, make more classes available, etc.)
 

robflanker

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 17, 2009
3,031
73
Status
Resident [Any Field]
420 - you can get to med school. a 2.9 cGPA is bad, but not unrecoverable.

I'd take some undergrad classes to get my cGPA above 3.0, id also repeat any classes i got Cs in esp pre-reqs, and then I'd apply to an SMP. Also start working on your ECs so that they become a really strong part of your app