What the heck is a good score on the COMLEX?

[Kannen1979]

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What is a "good" score on the COMLEX? I just got my results back, and I know that 400 is passing and 500 is average, but what is competitve for say, surgery specialties? 550? 600? 799?

Thanks.

 

[kcumbDO]

Anything above a 650 is considered very competitive, above a 700 means that you pretty much aced the thing.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

What is a "good" score on the COMLEX? I just got my results back, and I know that 400 is passing and 500 is average, but what is competitve for say, surgery specialties? 550? 600? 799?

Thanks.

Kannen,

When I took step 1 last year, the mean was 500 and SD 79 (I think). Brushing the dust off of the statistics files in my brain, that would make a 579 the 84th percentile and 658 would put you into the 95th percentile.

Literally speaking, passing is good (means you understand/can apply the minimum amount of medical information necessary to practice medicine), beating the mean is a great score (meaning you beat over 50% of other test takers). Anything above that is gravy.

However, unfortunate though it may be, many programs unofficially (and somewhat illegally) prefer their applicants to have certain scores before they invite applicants for an interview. This is the harsh truth, helping the program directors sort through the deluge of applications they receive starting in late july/early august. More competitive specialties/programs "require" higher scores than others. That being said, an application is more than a board score, so if your comlex score does not meet your imagined cutoff, don't let it stop you from applying everywhere you want to go.

Finally, to answer your actual question, I don't know, and I don't think anyone can honestly answer your question. If you have a question as to your competitiveness for a particular specialty, I would recommend talking to 4th years at your school who are applying in your chosen specialty - what are programs looking for this year. How high are their board scores, how many applications did they submit, how many interviews offers are they receiving? Are they looking at similar programs to those you are interested in?

Of course, there are always those who will argue that step 1 scores are not as important as step 2 when applying to residency. Most PDs would prefer to see strong step 2 scores if they are available. The best way to advertise yourself (even at a program you don't think you have a chance at) is to do a rotation at your #1 program and rock it. If you work your butt off for them, you have a chance of getting in, even if your boards/application is not so strong. Programs would rather take an applicant who they know will work hard and fits in with the group than a superstar on paper that they haven't even a clue about.

Best of luck,

jd

 

[VentdependenT]

osteo ortho COMLEX around 90% is desired. Other competitive fields I guess you would want better than 75% (upper quartile) if you application is otherwise solid.

I cannot emphasize the importance of rotating within your program of interest. This is the NUMBER ONE factor for matching. Osteo residencies like to see prospective applicants working in the flesh. Annnnddd vice versa.

 

[Beck928]

It seems to me that if you're at the 90th percentile or above you can write your own ticket for most specialties. I am sure that anywhere in the 80's is great too, upper half is good for sure. That is only anecdotal, but I think it's pretty reliable. Hope that helps!

 

[sophiejane]

Don't know about writing your own ticket solely on board scores... I know of people who were overly confident about their numbers and didn't match their top choices because their people skills sucked. On the other hand, there are lots of examples of people who get into programs that were "beyond their reach" because their people skills and work ethic were stellar.

Of course, if you never get the chance to interview that's a non-issue. That's why I think Vent's and JD's comments are so on-target--they've got to see you in action. That's exactly what our dean told us.

 

[doc0875]

Call me paranoid, but I'm still not convinvced of the legitamacy of the COMLEX score reports. Does anyone hear know for a fact of anyone that failed a COMLEX? It seems to me that everyone I ask scored above-average & noboby seems to be anywhere near the failing cutoff whereas lots of USMLE takers score below the mean. I just wonder if they artificially boost the COMPLEX total & mean scores, etc to make us appear competitive or something? I know several D.O. students who were in the lower half of their class but when they got their COMLEX scores they were in the 550+ score range, sometimes much higher. I really think they at least throw out lots & lots of the COMLEX questions when they create their scoring schema each year.

 

[Claymore]

Call me paranoid, but I'm still not convinvced of the legitamacy of the COMLEX score reports. Does anyone hear know for a fact of anyone that failed a COMLEX? It seems to me that everyone I ask scored above-average & noboby seems to be anywhere near the failing cutoff whereas lots of USMLE takers score below the mean. I just wonder if they artificially boost the COMPLEX total & mean scores, etc to make us appear competitive or something? I know several D.O. students who were in the lower half of their class but when they got their COMLEX scores they were in the 550+ score range, sometimes much higher. I really think they at least throw out lots & lots of the COMLEX questions when they create their scoring schema each year.

I assume you're joking, or just quite naive...of course people fail the test. Do you think schools would release less-than-optimal board pass rates if they were false? Of course not. And yes, I personally know some people who failed.

 

[VentdependenT]

Call me paranoid, but I'm still not convinvced of the legitamacy of the COMLEX score reports. Does anyone hear know for a fact of anyone that failed a COMLEX? It seems to me that everyone I ask scored above-average & noboby seems to be anywhere near the failing cutoff whereas lots of USMLE takers score below the mean. I just wonder if they artificially boost the COMPLEX total & mean scores, etc to make us appear competitive or something? I know several D.O. students who were in the lower half of their class but when they got their COMLEX scores they were in the 550+ score range, sometimes much higher. I really think they at least throw out lots & lots of the COMLEX questions when they create their scoring schema each year.

You haven't spoke to that many people then.

 

[LSU-Tech]

After all, don't all ortho's have 7" minimum 🙂QUOTE]

That was funny.

-Cool posts

 

[NYCDoc80]

Anything above a 600 is a good score since it is above the mean...anything in the 90%tile will get you into a competitive DO specialty like Ortho, Derm, Radiology, etc...from MS 4s and interns.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Anything above a 600 is a good score since it is above the mean...anything in the 90%tile will get you into a competitive DO specialty like Ortho, Derm, Radiology, etc...from MS 4s and interns.

Sweet!! I could write my check for DERM or RADS?? Hell, why am I screwing around with EM then?

Oh, nevermind - resident acceptance is about much more than board scores.

Do your best, if you beat the mean, be happy - you kicked @$$!

jd

PS - NYDoc80: Great avatar!!

 

[babyruth]

The mean....? Don't you mean the standard deviation in this instance? The national average was 510 this year, so above a 600 would be a little farther than one SD away and put you in the 75-80+% quartile, correct? I would guess the 90% would be somewhere around 640-650 and above, right?

 

[RajMahal]

Call me paranoid, but I'm still not convinvced of the legitamacy of the COMLEX score reports. Does anyone hear know for a fact of anyone that failed a COMLEX? It seems to me that everyone I ask scored above-average & noboby seems to be anywhere near the failing cutoff whereas lots of USMLE takers score below the mean. I just wonder if they artificially boost the COMPLEX total & mean scores, etc to make us appear competitive or something? I know several D.O. students who were in the lower half of their class but when they got their COMLEX scores they were in the 550+ score range, sometimes much higher. I really think they at least throw out lots & lots of the COMLEX questions when they create their scoring schema each year.

i am in the bottom 15 %ile of my class but 85th %ile on comlex--
don't let people downplay the importance of a good standardized test score.
it's the best way to compare candidates from different schools, hence the term "standardized".

depending on what surgical specialties you're interested in, you need good scores, especially for ENT, plastics, and ortho. i'm not sure about the other ones.

 

[s42brown]

i am in the bottom 15 %ile of my class but 85th %ile on comlex--

You don't think they look at how you performed in your class over the first two years? I did well on the COMLEX but I am also hoping that being in the top 3% of my class will show dedication and work ethic.

 

[AwesomeO-DO]

Anything above a 600 is a good score since it is above the mean...anything in the 90%tile will get you into a competitive DO specialty like Ortho, Derm, Radiology, etc...from MS 4s and interns.

do those MS 4s and interns know if being in the top 90%tile also helps for MD residencies? competitive ones?

 

[sia_simba]

I have spoken to interns at my hospital who are doing EM and anesthiologist... 100% of them have told me that if you do well on your showcase rotations (beginning of fourth year)... you will be in good shape.

Having good board scores open many more doors for you, however, having bad board scores still open doors, but not as many.

Having good work ethics, team work, friendly, etc. at hospital rotations open plenty of doors for you. Not having the above mentioned... CLOSE almost Every door in that hospital.

From people who are doing their osteopathic internship at my school.... told me that if you work in a hospital and they like you a lot... you are in.

One of my friend's brother from NYCOM did a 3rd year rotation for surgery at this one hospital in brooklyn. After his rotation (12 weeks) was over, the director guarenteed him a spot for residency... and that's as a third year, and not knowing much clinical stuff.

My personal opinion is that if you try really hard to get someplace... you'll get there. I mean when we talk about it... all of us are in medical school. What were the chances then of us getting into medical school ? 1/100 ? Unless you are that very picky person who ONLY wants this hospital or that hospital... it doesn't matter where you go... you won't be happy anywhere.

For those of us who wants to do EM, PEDS, surgery, medicine, etc... I'm sure we can go anywhere and will still be happy because our goal is not really how much money we make, how prestigious the hospital we work in is, or what kind of status we have.... our goal is to do what we like.

Maybe I'm a little bit off topic here, but yeah... Don't let people tell you your scores are low and you can't get this or you can't get that... if you listen to other people.. you'll never get anywhere. Even if you are 50% and want surgery... go ahead.. you still have a chance even if its 1% chance. Because if you don't apply.. your chances are 0%. =) Enjoy!

 

[sophiejane]

You don't think they look at how you performed in your class over the first two years? I did well on the COMLEX but I am also hoping that being in the top 3% of my class will show dedication and work ethic.

That's a nice thing to hope, but the fact is that your grades from the first two years are pretty much at the bottom of the list of what PD's look at. (See Iserson's "Getting Into A Residency" or talk to any 4th year who has done interviews).

You are to be congratulated on your success, but you should also know that lots of people who have excellent dedication and work ethic are not in the top 3%. Lots of very smart people aren't there either. Residency PD's know this and that's why they don't care about pre-clinical grades, in general.

I know of several people who are in the top 5% who are total front-loaders and couldn't remember even some of the basic things from a particular course within a week of aceing the test.

 

[s42brown]

I know of several people who are in the top 5% who are total front-loaders and couldn't remember even some of the basic things from a particular course within a week of aceing the test.

This may be true. However, it is my belief that the people who work their tail off to get these grades will continue to bust their butts in third and fourth year. I really feel that everything is connected. Example, work your ass of first two years get good grades, that help you get a good board score, which is then carried into third and fourth year as work ethic and gets you that residency spot. I don't think its rocket science to get that residency that someone really wants just get up early and work hard all day every day.
I have now fallen off my soap box.

 

[AwesomeO-DO]

do those MS 4s and interns know if being in the top 90%tile also helps for MD residencies? competitive ones?

I'll try this another way... Do good level one scores have as much pull as good step one scores when applying for residencies in the MD relm? (FP doesn't count since they love DOs
p.s can you tell i'm thinking of applying to MD residencies?

 

[cremaster2007]

I'll try this another way... Do good level one scores have as much pull as good step one scores when applying for residencies in the MD relm? (FP doesn't count since they love DOs
p.s can you tell i'm thinking of applying to MD residencies?

awesome 0 you know that it depends on the program........some places won't even look at a comlex score, others don't care, but rest assured in a DO friendly MD program who has taken DO residents before they know what a comlex score is, and what a relatively good score is. Obviously if you scored in the 95% it's going to help you, but from the residents I've talked to it really is about rotating at the hospital and busting your ass. While you are there talk to the residents and see what you need to do to be a competitive applicant. Residents in most programs have a lot of say in who their "future co-workers" are going to be. Plus, most hospitals are taking a chance on ranking people high too, so if you show a lot of hard work, interest, and a willingness to put in the extra time as a student most places will (and I'm sure it's probably illegal) let you know if they plan on matching you high on their list. Gotta love medical politics and butt kissing!

 

[iliacus]

This may be true. However, it is my belief that the people who work their tail off to get these grades will continue to bust their butts in third and fourth year. I really feel that everything is connected. Example, work your ass of first two years get good grades, that help you get a good board score, which is then carried into third and fourth year as work ethic and gets you that residency spot. I don't think its rocket science to get that residency that someone really wants just get up early and work hard all day every day.
I have now fallen off my soap box.

I wouldn't equate being a classroom superstar to doing well on rotations. If somebody can memorize facts and spit them out on a test that's great..but that certainly doesn't mean the same person is going to be able to integrate those facts into solid clinical judgment and common sense. If you have the ability to get along well in a team environment and remember all those facts and relate well to patients...then you're an allstar and can write your own ticket. But few have that ability. Usually (unfortunately) it's one or the other. At my school we have classroom rockstars who get strait A's...but can't tie their shoes in the hall without falling over. They're "professional students" meaning, they have the art of regurgitating miniscule facts they're sure will be asked on the test and have virtually no true implications in the practice of medicine, on a test....but their critical thinking skills and people skills are lacking. Yet, a good friend of mine has the ability to kick ass in the classroom and the wards. The two aren't mutually exculsive but don't go hand in hand. It's so variable..it really depends on the person. But if you're going for an ortho spot remember you're competing against that guys and girls who can do it all...classroom and clinic. Alright...getting off the soap box now. 😳

 

[s42brown]

I wouldn't equate being a classroom superstar to doing well on rotations. If somebody can memorize facts and spit them out on a test that's great..but that certainly doesn't mean the same person is going to be able to integrate those facts into solid clinical judgment and common sense. If you have the ability to get along well in a team environment and remember all those facts and relate well to patients...then you're an allstar and can write your own ticket. But few have that ability. Usually (unfortunately) it's one or the other. At my school we have classroom rockstars who get strait A's...but can't tie their shoes in the hall without falling over. They're "professional students" meaning, they have the art of regurgitating miniscule facts they're sure will be asked on the test and have virtually no true implications in the practice of medicine, on a test....but their critical thinking skills and people skills are lacking. Yet, a good friend of mine has the ability to kick ass in the classroom and the wards. The two aren't mutually exculsive but don't go hand in hand. It's so variable..it really depends on the person. But if you're going for an ortho spot remember you're competing against that guys and girls who can do it all...classroom and clinic. Alright...getting off the soap box now

You completely missed my point.
I can assure you that working hard in years one and two will carry over into years three and four. This was my main point.

 

[Beck928]

If you are lucky enough to have the opportunity to rotate at some great programs, nothing looks better than working your butt off, being a team player, and showing that you have what it takes to be there. Getting a nice letter out of it won't hurt either. Board scores don't really mean much if you have managed to impress a program in person. That being said, you can't possibly get to all the programs you want to apply to. And that is when boards will become more of a factor. That may be the only thing programs are looking at to screen applicants. I have spoken to a few program directors and former program directors. They told me that they just need to know that they can graduate you from their program, and that you will be able to pass future boards. So they don't want to take a "risk" on someone who barely eeks by. They also realize that boards are a one-day thing (sometimes two days!) and you can't really assess someone's ability based on a number. So, boards are reasonably important, probably more so for competitive specialties, but they are ONE PART of an application. Have great letters, grades, etc will all factor in. Just keep it it perspective.

 

[iliacus]

You completely missed my point.
I can assure you that working hard in years one and two will carry over into years three and four. This was my main point.

Working hard doesn't always mean working smart. Being a good bookworm doesn't mean you can integrate learned ideas and concepts into clinical practice. Besides, you were top 3% in YOUR class..but the comlex compares you to the rest of the country. That being said, I'm sure being a classroom superstar won't hurt you. Although I'd trade that top 3% for a 90th% comlex score anyday.

 

[danclear]

awesome 0 you know that it depends on the program........some places won't even look at a comlex score, others don't care, but rest assured in a DO friendly MD program who has taken DO residents before they know what a comlex score is, and what a relatively good score is. Obviously if you scored in the 95% it's going to help you, but from the residents I've talked to it really is about rotating at the hospital and busting your ass. While you are there talk to the residents and see what you need to do to be a competitive applicant. Residents in most programs have a lot of say in who their "future co-workers" are going to be. Plus, most hospitals are taking a chance on ranking people high too, so if you show a lot of hard work, interest, and a willingness to put in the extra time as a student most places will (and I'm sure it's probably illegal) let you know if they plan on matching you high on their list. Gotta love medical politics and butt kissing!

All of these things everyone has been posting has been great advice. I will reiterate the part about rotating at the program and totally kicking ass while you are there. That is what will be most important.

One thing you can do to see if your COMLEX is going to work in your favor to get into an allopathic residency program is you can directly contact the program. This can be by either contacting the program director, the program director's secretary, or just looking at the website for the program. They can tell you if they 1. take DOs, 2. how highly they regard the COMLEX, 3. if your USMLE will be more influential (if you have taken it, or if you are planning on taking it), and 4. any other things that their specific program finds valuable in its applicants and future residents.

Hope this helps.