What the HELL!?

[refreshingred]

The other day I was sitting, minding my own business running my case and some tech walks up behind me and says "Hey anesthesia I need to get behind you for something from the supply cabinet."

I just paused and thought WHAT THE HELL? I asked her calmly "WHO is 'anesthesia?' My name is Dr. Smith.

I asked an upper level about this and he said that calling anesthesiologist 'anesthesia' is pervasive in medicine -- from surgeons to nurses, to $10 an hour high school graduate OR techs. He said that there was probably nothing I could do to change this. Is this true? And why?

We are doctors. Why would ANY speciality allow other people (especially people lower in the hospital hierarchy) to be so disrespectful? Could you imagine some nurse saying "'Hey surgery' could you please move out of my way."

And if anyone says: "Well if it really bothers you so much, maybe anesthesia isn't for you," to that I have to say maybe you're a woman who doesn't have much of an ego or your some weak wussy man who likes to be submissive and pushed around, just like YOUR MOMMA used to do.

Kidding aside, is it that much to ask for everyone in the OR to just call me Doctor, even if they don't know my name. I mean, if you assume the person behind the blood-brain barrier is a doctor I dont' think you can go wrong.

I just don't understand how as a profession our speciality could have developed into such a disrespected field. WHAT happened with the generations of anesthesiologist before us that made everone in the OR think they can walk all over us and not call us by our proper titles.

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[UTSouthwestern]

I have yet to see that in private practice yet. Everyone has called me doctor without fail.

 

[VentdependenT]

Well, all the other people are called service (every single non-CA resident that lands in the OR's), tech, nurse, circulator, c-arm dude, etc....it goes on and on. I can't remember all these peoples names man but I always ask (sometimes daily...pitiful ain't it) to avoid the above impersonal titles.

 

[Noyac]

Everyone in my OR just calls me by my first name. Which is fine by me.

 

[chicamedica]

on my surgery rotation i offended one of the surgeons when I thought she was the pathologist.

 

[Stillwater45]

The other day I was sitting, minding my own business running my case and some tech walks up behind me and says "Hey anesthesia I need to get behind you for something from the supply cabinet."

I just paused and thought WHAT THE HELL? I asked her calmly "WHO is 'anesthesia?' My name is Dr. Smith.

I asked an upper level about this and he said that calling anesthesiologist 'anesthesia' is pervasive in medicine -- from surgeons to nurses, to $10 an hour high school graduate OR techs. He said that there was probably nothing I could do to change this. Is this true? And why?

We are doctors. Why would ANY speciality allow other people (especially people lower in the hospital hierarchy) to be so disrespectful? Could you imagine some nurse saying "'Hey surgery' could you please move out of my way."

And if anyone says: "Well if it really bothers you so much, maybe anesthesia isn't for you," to that I have to say maybe you're a woman who doesn't have much of an ego or your some weak wussy man who likes to be submissive and pushed around, just like YOUR MOMMA used to do.

Kidding aside, is it that much to ask for everyone in the OR to just call me Doctor, even if they don't know my name. I mean, if you assume the person behind the blood-brain barrier is a doctor I dont' think you can go wrong.

I just don't understand how as a profession our speciality could have developed into such a disrespected field. WHAT happened with the generations of anesthesiologist before us that made everone in the OR think they can walk all over us and not call us by our proper titles.

I can understand that it is a little insulting to be called a generic pronoun. But I don't understand and I am a little disgusted by MD's who are so anal retentive about being called Dr. at all times. What ever happened to being approachable. I have found that the Dr.'s who had the best self-concept were the ones who let them call you by the first name in a team situation or by a more generic title outside of the hospital (ie. my friends parents who I would refer to as Mr./Mrs. JonDoe instead of Dr. JonDoe outside of the hospital).

An MD degree is something that I am working towards and something to be extremely proud of, but I don't think that it should consume your identity and be the one and only pillar of ones self-concept. MD's are not Diety or Royalty, they just chose to endure more formal training and delay gratification a little bit longer than the rest.

Granted MD's do take on more responsibility and as result should merit more respect within the field, but there is a fine line between a healthy respect and ego. All in all I have observed that the field of medicine is very dependent on a team atmosphere and personally I hope to er on the side of approachability as apposed to ego.

Lastly, A)This response was not solely directed at the OP B)I have an enormous amount of respect for MD/DO's and I know that I am only a Med student so I know my observations don't count for much so flame away, im expecting it.

 

[militarymd]

I don't care what the people in the OR call me....

"anesthesia"
"Dr."
"Hey you"
"Gas man"
etc.

...as long as everyone does what I tell them to do when I REALLY want them to do something.

 

[bigdan]

My dad INSISTS on John versus Dr. Cormican. That's how I would love to run my life. My worry is that when everyone thinks I'm "Daniel", do they, as military said, follow what I say when I ask them to do something that needs to be done?

Thoughts?

dc

 

[MedicinePowder]

I can understand that it is a little insulting to be called a generic pronoun. But I don't understand and I am a little disgusted by MD's who are so anal retentive about being called Dr. at all times. What ever happened to being approachable. I have found that the Dr.'s who had the best self-concept were the ones who let them call you by the first name in a team situation or by a more generic title outside of the hospital (ie. my friends parents who I would refer to as Mr./Mrs. JonDoe instead of Dr. JonDoe outside of the hospital).

An MD degree is something that I am working towards and something to be extremely proud of, but I don't think that it should consume your identity and be the one and only pillar of ones self-concept. MD's are not Diety or Royalty, they just chose to endure more formal training and delay gratification a little bit longer than the rest.

Granted MD's do take on more responsibility and as result should merit more respect within the field, but there is a fine line between a healthy respect and ego. All in all I have observed that the field of medicine is very dependent on a team atmosphere and personally I hope to er on the side of approachability as apposed to ego.

Lastly, A)This response was not solely directed at the OP B)I have an enormous amount of respect for MD/DO's and I know that I am only a Med student so I know my observations don't count for much so flame away, im expecting it.

This is an extremely naive and idealistic reply.

I personally will correct anyone in the OR that I'm Dr. So-and-so and not Mr. or 'anesthesia'. I trained 11 more years and spent $100,000 more than an anesthesia tech so I'm not ok being called by the same title as them. It's not about ego, it's about respect.

 

[chicamedica]

My dad INSISTS on John versus Dr. Cormican. That's how I would love to run my life. My worry is that when everyone thinks I'm "Daniel", do they, as military said, follow what I say when I ask them to do something that needs to be done?

Thoughts?

dc

I'm a first-name basis kinda chick too. . .heck, even I get tongue-tied saying my last name! Not about to require others to say it. . .

However, when being overhead paged, i'd probably prefer my last name being said, because i will KNOW that's for me!

 

[refreshingred]

This is an extremely naive and idealistic reply.

I personally will correct anyone in the OR that I'm Dr. So-and-so and not Mr. or 'anesthesia'. I trained 11 more years and spent $100,000 more than an anesthesia tech so I'm not ok being called by the same title as them. It's not about ego, it's about respect.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Respect. I too starting correcting the nurses/techs in my program, but now I'm seen as the 'mean' doctor.

I think nurses and other ancilliary types probably resent docors in general. Who the hell would like being lower on the totem pole and having to take orders? So if they think (b/c of the idiosyncrasies of our field) that they can get away with dissing you by calling you 'anesthesia' then of course they will.

The 'can't we all just get along', 'have a Coke and smile' idea is ridiculous. The OR isn't Disneyland.

If you correct someone's bad manners you shouldn't be labeled as 'mean.' They should thank you and ask for it again. Mean is stabbing someone in the heart with 100cc of sux.

 

[GasEmDee]

I prefer people to call me by my first name. Those that respect me already know that im a physician; they don't need to be reminded. Those that choose not to respect me will not be swayed by my insistance that they use a particular salutation.

I have spent even more time than the average physician, having completed a lengthy graduate school process as well. That doesnt mean ppl out to bow at my feet.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Respect. I too starting correcting the nurses/techs in my program, but now I'm seen as the 'mean' doctor.

I think nurses and other ancilliary types probably resent docors in general. Who the hell would like being lower on the totem pole and having to take orders? So if they think (b/c of the idiosyncrasies of our field) that they can get away with dissing you by calling you 'anesthesia' then of course they will.

The 'can't we all just get along', 'have a Coke and smile' idea is ridiculous. The OR isn't Disneyland.

If you correct someone's bad manners you shouldn't be labeled as 'mean.' They should thank you and ask for it again. Mean is stabbing someone in the heart with 100cc of sux.

 

[nitecap]

From my eperience many times certain MD's are refered to as the service they work in.

Eg. Waiting for DR. Joe blow for consult he arrives, cardiology is here we can proceed.

Need anesthesia to start line of consult pt, anesthesia is here.

Maybe they shouldnt have have said hey anesthesia get me this, but hey you are anesthesia right. You do rep. the anesthesia department. Some times in large hospitals especially that are running many cases at one time 5 diff. aneshesiologist, anesthesia residents, CRNA's, surgical residents, surgeons, radiologist or rad techs, or med students maybe in the room. All with rthe same scrubs on, masks, cant even decide who is who, especially if you dont normally work there. I have seen on many occassions scrub techs or circulating RN's accidently call a Surgery PA a MD not realizing it, or a MD a PA. Especially if they are both hard at work in the field. Its more difficult in the OR, because faces and heads are covered. Who cares, just intro yourself or tell them what you want to be called.

 

[MedicinePowder]

I prefer people to call me by my first name. Those that respect me already know that im a physician; they don't need to be reminded. Those that choose not to respect me will not be swayed by my insistance that they use a particular salutation.

I have spent even more time than the average physician, having completed a lengthy graduate school process as well. That doesnt mean ppl out to bow at my feet.

this is why some anesthesia doctors are treated as less than a doctor: pathological modesty by some in the field. brotherman, you earned your **** and all i'm requiring is to call me by my title. if we get to become friends in the OR then you can call me by my first name. i don't want you to feed me a grape or shine my shoes or bow down. and trust me, i'm all about being modest, but in order to command a ship, you need a captain.

 

[militarymd]

but in order to command a ship, you need a captain.

I only achieved the rank of Lieutenant Commander in the Navy....I guess I'll just leave the ship on auto-cruise.

 

[jetproppilot]

This is an extremely naive and idealistic reply.

I personally will correct anyone in the OR that I'm Dr. So-and-so and not Mr. or 'anesthesia'. I trained 11 more years and spent $100,000 more than an anesthesia tech so I'm not ok being called by the same title as them. It's not about ego, it's about respect.

Sam Walton used to visit his stores in jeans, and stop by the local soup-kitchen-for-the-homeless incognito...that is, in the line. His visionary changes that affected this country's economy are earth-rattling.

There are some truly great people who have made revolutionary changes to this country that practice humility.

Are you the absolute best at what you do? Hey, I'm good, but I'm no Denton Cooley/David Ott/Michael Roizen/John Tinker. Maybe someday, but 'til then, I'm not too concerned about the whole "Dr Jet" thing.

Its easy to get wrapped up in the whole doctor thing. The next time you feel threatened by someone calling you something other than doctor, think about what number you have on the picking-order-of-greatness.

Again, I'm good, but my number is 2,303,404,509,698.02

 

[UTSouthwestern]

You are NOT anesthesia. You are not a volatile, IV, oral, or rectal agent that induces anesthesia. I do not call a surgeon "surgery", an internist "medicine", a pathologist "pathology", an obstetrician/gynecologist "obstetrics/gynecology", a pharmacist "drugs", or a proctologist "ass".

Everyone should make an effort to address each individual by their appropriate title, especially to avoid confusing a patient who may mistakenly confuse a PA for their surgeon, an anesthesia technician for their anesthesiologist, and OR technician for their OR nurse.

I am a physician and I expect to be addressed as a physician. That does not mean I consider myself to be high and mighty, but at the same time, I do not want to be confused with being a member of a different discipline of the medical profession. I went through medical school, residencies, and now private practice and I believe that I have earned the right to be addressed as doctor and/or anesthesiologist.

A handful of times in the past, I have seen CRNA's use the term anesthesiologist when speaking to their patients in the OR and in the preoperative setting. In one case that we were asked to review for a CRNA defendant, the CRNA was being sued by his patient for awareness under anesthesia, when the patient uncovered that misrepresentation during the discovery phase of the pretrial motions. The plaintiff was unsuccessful in proving the AUA aspect, but was successful in the misrepresentation aspect of the lawsuit as there were multiple witnesses in the OR and pre-op holding area that had heard this and noted that the CRNA did not attempt to dispel this situation by telling the patient that he was NOT a physician. The CRNA was subsequently suspended by the hospital, reported to his state nursing society, lost a small sum of money, and was later "fired" by the hospital (technically he resigned, but the hospital was restricting his case load to only off site sedation cases).

The point is that we have designations both as a reflection of our backgrounds and training and to prevent misconceptions/deceptions among our peers, coworkers, and most of all our patients. If you would prefer to be called by your first name, just be sure that those you are working with, for, and on are aware of your designation ("I am Dr. Lichtensteinorosenkrantz-Churicassanova, but you can call me Bob") to avoid confusion and maintain proper structures and levels of responsibility.

 

[MedicinePowder]

You are NOT anesthesia. You are not a volatile, IV, oral, or rectal agent that induces anesthesia. I do not call a surgeon "surgery", an internist "medicine", a pathologist "pathology", an obstetrician/gynecologist "obstetrics/gynecology", or a proctologist "ass".

Everyone should make an effort to address each individual by their appropriate title, especially to avoid confusing a patient who may mistakenly confuse a PA for their surgeon, an anesthesia technician for their anesthesiologist, and OR technician for their OR nurse.

I am a physician and I expect to be addressed as a physician. That does not mean I consider myself to be high and mighty, but at the same time, I do not want to be confused with being a member of a different discipline of the medical profession. I went through medical school, residencies, and now private practice and I believe that I have earned the right to be addressed as doctor and/or anesthesiologist.

A handful of times in the past, I have seen CRNA's use the term anesthesiologist when speaking to their patients in the OR and in the preoperative setting. In one case that we were asked to review for a CRNA defendant, the CRNA was being sued by his patient for awareness under anesthesia, when the patient uncovered that misrepresentation during the discovery phase of the pretrial motions. The plaintiff was unsuccessful in proving the AUA aspect, but was successful in the misrepresentation aspect of the lawsuit as there were multiple witnesses in the OR and pre-op holding area that had heard this and noted that the CRNA did not attempt to dispel this situation by telling the patient that he was NOT a physician. The CRNA was subsequently suspended by the hospital, reported to his state nursing society, lost a small sum of money, and was later "fired" by the hospital (technically he resigned, but the hospital was restricting his case load to only off site sedation cases).

The point is that we have designations both as a reflection of our backgrounds and training and to prevent misconceptions/deceptions among our peers, coworkers, and most of all our patients. If you would prefer to be called by your first name, just be sure that those you are working with, for, and on are aware of your designation ("I am Dr. Lichtensteinorosenkrantz-Churicassanova, but you can call me Bob") to avoid confusion and maintain proper structures and levels of responsibility.

Nicely said

 

[MedicinePowder]

Sam Walton used to visit his stores in jeans, and stop by the local soup-kitchen-for-the-homeless incognito...that is, in the line. His visionary changes that affected this country's economy are earth-rattling.

There are some truly great people who have made revolutionary changes to this country that practice humility.

Are you the absolute best at what you do? Hey, I'm good, but I'm no Denton Cooley/David Ott/Michael Roizen/John Tinker. Maybe someday, but 'til then, I'm not too concerned about the whole "Dr Jet" thing.

Its easy to get wrapped up in the whole doctor thing. The next time you feel threatened by someone calling you something other than doctor, think about what number you have on the picking-order-of-greatness.

Again, I'm good, but my number is 2,303,404,509,698.02

so in order to be humble i have to dress like a homeless person and insist that people call me by my first name as opposed to dr. so-and-so while at work? i can be very humble in many other different ways. nothing wrong with wanting to be called by my title like every other physician at the hospital--nothing grandiose with that. now, if i'm saying that people at starbucks and my uncle ted call me doctor then that's obviously stupid.

might as well just tell patients you're a crna. hell, that'll be humble.

 

[jetproppilot]

You are NOT anesthesia. You are not a volatile, IV, oral, or rectal agent that induces anesthesia. I do not call a surgeon "surgery", an internist "medicine", a pathologist "pathology", an obstetrician/gynecologist "obstetrics/gynecology", or a proctologist "ass".

Everyone should make an effort to address each individual by their appropriate title, especially to avoid confusing a patient who may mistakenly confuse a PA for their surgeon, an anesthesia technician for their anesthesiologist, and OR technician for their OR nurse.

I am a physician and I expect to be addressed as a physician. That does not mean I consider myself to be high and mighty, but at the same time, I do not want to be confused with being a member of a different discipline of the medical profession. I went through medical school, residencies, and now private practice and I believe that I have earned the right to be addressed as doctor and/or anesthesiologist.

A handful of times in the past, I have seen CRNA's use the term anesthesiologist when speaking to their patients in the OR and in the preoperative setting. In one case that we were asked to review for a CRNA defendant, the CRNA was being sued by his patient for awareness under anesthesia, when the patient uncovered that misrepresentation during the discovery phase of the pretrial motions. The plaintiff was unsuccessful in proving the AUA aspect, but was successful in the misrepresentation aspect of the lawsuit as there were multiple witnesses in the OR and pre-op holding area that had heard this and noted that the CRNA did not attempt to dispel this situation by telling the patient that he was NOT a physician. The CRNA was subsequently suspended by the hospital, reported to his state nursing society, lost a small sum of money, and was later "fired" by the hospital (technically he resigned, but the hospital was restricting his case load to only off site sedation cases).

The point is that we have designations both as a reflection of our backgrounds and training and to prevent misconceptions/deceptions among our peers, coworkers, and most of all our patients. If you would prefer to be called by your first name, just be sure that those you are working with, for, and on are aware of your designation ("I am Dr. Lichtensteinorosenkrantz-Churicassanova, but you can call me Bob") to avoid confusion and maintain proper structures and levels of responsibility.

UT, I highly respect three people on this board. You are one of them. But take it from an experienced clinician on this subject...it is not worth the effort. Believe me. I've felt what you've felt. Use The Force to counter your feelings on this subject. And laugh all the way to the bank. And the career satisfaction bank. And the I'm-around-for-my-family-bank.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

UT, I highly respect three people on this board. You are one of them. But take it from an experienced clinician on this subject...it is not worth the effort. Believe me. I've felt what you've felt. Use The Force to counter your feelings on this subject. And laugh all the way to the bank. And the career satisfaction bank. And the I'm-around-for-my-family-bank.

I really don't take serious offense if someone does not refer to me as a physician. If all is amicable and no deception or misrepresentation is attempted, then you can call me Norm, bud, Bubba, Jedi Master, or studly man as you see fit . I do take offense when someone tries to be derisive or seriously unprofessional ("Do you think you can do this right nurse anesthesia?" "Hey you, move your **** out of the way." "Hey anesthesia, you can't use Desflurane while I'm recording SSEP's and MEP's." "Anesthesia, you need to get over here RIGHT NOW to start this IV!" "I want sedation only for this BKA!"). I make no exceptions when the patient is awake and anxiously awaiting surgery. I am your anesthesiologist, Dr. me. I am here to take care of you to the best of my abilities before, during, and after your surgery. This is Nurse him/her and he/she is going to be your OR nurse and guardian for this surgery.

That being said, I am on a first name basis with most all of my colleagues (physician, nurse, technician, etc.) as long as they are amicable, professional, and mutually concerned about our patient.

 

[undecided05]

A couple of things that I feel inclined to respond to,


#1 To the OP, if you feel the need to have someone call you Dr., it's not that anesthesia may not be for you, it's not about a woman being sensitive or a guy being submissive, it may in fact that you have a small penis (male) or fat ass (female) and just a tad bit of insecurity ...j/k... kind of.... well no.

#2 As for the respect issue, I can assure you that it does not come with the title of MD and graudating from an anesthesia program. It comes with showing competence and earning respect in the OR/on the floor/in the ICU; whether from surgery (uh oh... didn't refer to them as doctor),nurses, or from techs.

#3 If you think that someone is going to respond quicker to you and your orders b/c you insist on them calling you Dr. then you're either young/naive/just plain stupid.

#4 As with what UTSW states, I almost always address myself to the patient as Dr. ------; not to boost my self-esteem but to maybe allay some of their concerns/fears and let them know that if they have any questions or concerns, the buck stops with me. I also let the patient know that they can call me by my first name.

 

[Molly Maquire]

I'm just wondering, would you refer to a medical student as "Student Physician Smith" ?

To me, this whole thread is a little weird. I worked on Wall Street before medical school, and I used to call people who made seven and eight figure salaries by their first names.

I'll be nice and just say that the original poster must have "issues."

 

[HomerSimpson]

To each his own in my opinion. I mean if you are fine when someone calls you anesthesia then fine let em. I tend to agree with UTSW mainly because we trained at the same program and that word is used in a very derogatory manner at Parkland. For me I don't need to be called Doctor to validate my accomplishments. BUT if they think so little of you as to not know your name then you know that either they have very little opinion of you or your specialty. Usually it's the latter. In a perfect world if we were all as confident as someone like Jet who probably has an excellent relationship with his surgeons and support staff then you don't have to worry. The problem in my opinion is that eventually especially in a training program when they keep on degrading you like this then it can be difficult for some to become the good and confident clinician that they want to be. I have met good competent people in the private world who are borderline dangerous because they do not have the confidence cancel cases that need to be canceled. Why not? well who knows... but maybe one reason is that they fell into a culture where we are seen as nothing but technicians and called by one generic name.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Confidence is an issue that each individual will have to address. I tend to feel that it is separate from the issue of professionalism and courtesy, but I can see how one can lead to the other or lack of one can lead to lack of the other.

Always important to be knowledgeable in your profession, but as Jet and the Military man have said, you need to have the strength of your convictions backing up your decisions. No means no.

 

[toofache32]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Respect. I too starting correcting the nurses/techs in my program, but now I'm seen as the 'mean' doctor.

Respect is earned by daily interactions, not by going to school for 4 years (where you're just spoon-fed your information, BTW). For starters, I refer to ALL techs as Mr./Mrs. firstname even though nobody else does. I introduce myself as firstname lastname without the "Doctor" business....they already know (and don't care) that I'm a "doctor"...I have 2 clinical doctorate degrees.

Insisting that others call you doctor just results in them rolling their eyes. I say get over it. I'm sure you mother is proud of you.

 

[militarymd]

Do you know how a Philipino nurse says "F.u.c.k you!!"?

"YES, Doctor!"

 

[militarymd]

I introduce myself as firstname lastname without the "Doctor" business....they already know (and don't care) that I'm a "doctor"....

How do they know you're a doctor if you're having to introduce yourself???

 

[the_TICK!]

Respect is earned by daily interactions, not by going to school for 4 years (where you're just spoon-fed your information, BTW).

Sorry to get off the subject of the original post but....
I think it's a little pro-inflammatory to make broad sweeping statements that medical doctors are "spoon feed" during our four years of medical school. You make that statement without stating what your clinical medical degrees are in (dentistry/oral surgery I'm presuming?). I have not been to dentistry school and I have no idea what the schooling entails. So I would not be so presumptuous as to make derogatory comments about how you were educated.

Personally, my school used problem based learning for the first 2 years. We worked in small groups researching answers to clinical cases to gain the knowledge for our USMLE Step 1 exam. And obviously my final two years were ward clerkships (not much spoon feeding on the wards, mostly pimping).

I also do not think anyone can succeed in medicine without being a self-directed learner - regardless if the person is a medical student, resident physician, attending/private practice physician. There is too much information to be learned solely through lectures/didactics (i.e. - spoon feeds).

Again, I apologize for getting off the subject.

PS – there is some irony that The Tick’s battle cry is “SPOON!”
http://www.thetick.ws/

 

[bogatyr]

This has been an interesting topic. It seems in our society that we are undergoing, probably starting in the 60s a paradigm shift away from formality in everyday life. This was reinforced to me when I went to visit an elementary school a while ago and the students all called the teachers by their first names. At no time in any of my schooling would I have even considered calling a teacher by their first name (for fear of the paddle). As a resident, I still wouldn't think of calling any of my attending physicians anything other than Dr. I also call my fellow residents Dr in any professional situation. I introduce my studs to the patients as Mr ... or Student Doctor ... When addressing patients or strangers or my elders I call them Mr/Mrs, Sir, Ma'am, and so forth. I personally feel that titles are an important part of professionalism (one of the core competencies!) and respect, and I'm honestly not at work to be anybody's friend, but to be a professional. Of course I have noticed that I am somewhat of a dinosaur and that most of my peers, like many of the other posts are fine with first names. It is nice being in the military, though, because you don't have to remember anyone's name or degree, just their rank.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Do you know how a Philipino nurse says "F.u.c.k you!!"?

"YES, Doctor!"

LOL!

 

[toofache32]

Sorry to get off the subject of the original post but....
I think it's a little pro-inflammatory to make broad sweeping statements that medical doctors are "spoon feed" during our four years of medical school. You make that statement without stating what your clinical medical degrees are in (dentistry/oral surgery I'm presuming?). I have not been to dentistry school and I have no idea what the schooling entails. So I would not be so presumptuous as to make derogatory comments about how you were educated.

I didn't mean to sound inflammatory, and I apologize if it was. The OP just sounded a little too proud of herself for some reason. Demanding respect does not make you respected.

My point is that I know plenty of other MDs who feel pretty high-and-mighty about those 2 letters after their name, and live to be called "doctor". I think it can't be that big of a deal when thousands of people are awarded an MD every year.

 

[jwk]

This is an extremely naive and idealistic reply.

I personally will correct anyone in the OR that I'm Dr. So-and-so and not Mr. or 'anesthesia'. I trained 11 more years and spent $100,000 more than an anesthesia tech so I'm not ok being called by the same title as them. It's not about ego, it's about respect.

Respect is earned, not bestowed by degree. If your main interaction with other OR staff is correcting them when they don't call you "Doctor", you'll never earn it.

I don't like being referred to as "anesthesia" either, but with 100+ members in my department (MD's, AA's, CRNA's) and a constantly changing OR staff, I can also appreciate that very few that are here know everyone by name, including me.

I'm with JPP - lighten up a little. There are more important things in life.

 

[Apollyon]

Just 2 days ago, I told the med student to call me by my first name, or doctor, but don't just call me by my last name alone. One of my colleagues said, "I think he's just dumb, not disrespectful". I wonder if he overheard one of the nurses, who said to me that she didn't know it bothered me. I said that she (the nurse) and I had developed a professional relationship, and that's where it came from, and that she and I were on a level playing field, but the student was not on the same level, and it was not right for him to assume a familiar manner of addressing me, when I didn't even know his name.

It's unfortunate when students in professional school don't know enough that, if you don't know, default to Dr./Mr./Ms./Ma'am - that would be good manners/common sense (especially at the place I'm at).

As far as the OP, I refer to people by service in the third person, but by name in the first person ("trauma is here, Ob is here"), and, if I don't know them, I introduce myself. An ironic thing about me is that I am formal on introduction, but people that get to know me swear I think everyone's first name is "dude!"

Good manners are ALWAYS good policy.

 

[WalterSobchak]

This is my pet peeve. I tell people to call me anything BUT "Anesthesia". My Chairman is know for occasionally picking up a bottle of propofol and saying, "This is Anesthesia, not me". I also agree with the Parkland people that the term has more of a derogatory connotation than I would like.

I make an effort every day to learn the names of the scrub nurse, circulator, techs, and anybody else, so I don't have to say, "Hey you". I know it's effort, but after three years, almost everyone calls me by my first name, and that's fine.

My other battle that I fight, is when people push their way past me up to the curtain to look at the surgery, or talk to somebody. I only ask that they introduce themselves, and ask if it is OK to get up there. Yeah, it's a great view, but until I give it up, it's MY VIEW (and crowded workspace). I also have a lot of things that I need to do, so I just ask a little courtesy.

That's just my $0.02

 

[nitecap]

Respect is earned, not bestowed by degree. If your main interaction with other OR staff is correcting them when they don't call you "Doctor", you'll never earn it.

I don't like being referred to as "anesthesia" either, but with 100+ members in my department (MD's, AA's, CRNA's) and a constantly changing OR staff, I can also appreciate that very few that are here know everyone by name, including me.

I'm with JPP - lighten up a little. There are more important things in life.

Im with you JWK, nicely said.

 

[VolatileAgent]

man, thanks for this incredibly worthwhile thread. i never used to let the stupidity of other people bother me, but now i think i'm going to start. funny, in the past when someone said "hey, anesthesia" to me, my previous reaction was simply to ignore them. if they kept pressing, i'd just say, "oh, you talking to me? sorry, i though my name was dr. ______ not 'anesthesia'". and we'd get a laugh and they'd feel stupid, but they'd also get the point. but, now instead i'm going to get all pissed off and subsequently feel the strong need to openly correct them, whether or not i actually do have the guts to carry through with it and make a scene all while sounding like a complete ass in front of everyone or, more likely, just sit there and stew about it. after all, your way is much better than mine, isn't it?

 

[toofache32]

...but, now instead i'm going to get all pissed off and subsequently feel the strong need to openly correct them, whether or not i actually do have the guts to carry through with it and make a scene all while sounding like a complete ass in front of everyone or, more likely, just sit there and stew about it...

Exactly.

 

[bogatyr]

This thread kind of reminds me of a similar topic from the ASA newsletter the past year. The criticism was that anesthesiologists are not respected because we wear casual clothes into the hospital, then only wear scrubs around the hospital. The opinion was that we would be respected more if we wore ties. I can't help but think the two are related, like people who go into anesthesia are more casual in their nature or something.

 

[Apollyon]

This thread kind of reminds me of a similar topic from the ASA newsletter the past year. The criticism was that anesthesiologists are not respected because we wear casual clothes into the hospital, then only wear scrubs around the hospital. The opinion was that we would be respected more if we wore ties. I can't help but think the two are related, like people who go into anesthesia are more casual in their nature or something.

A study was just published in June in the NEJM about EM docs in scrubs or ties, and that patients did not perceive the docs differently. This seems like an opportune time for a similar anesthesia study.

Even so, if walking in in casual clothes is enough to be perceived as less seems rather thin, but, once again, it's institution-dependent. Surgeons at our hospital (by policy) wear ties when they're not in scrubs.

 

[stanMD]

Do you know how a Philipino nurse says "F.u.c.k you!!"?

"YES, Doctor!"

Thats so true on so many levels. Only somebody who has worked in an OR for any significant period of time knows how right on your statement is! Well said.

 

[jetproppilot]

A study was just published in June in the NEJM about EM docs in scrubs or ties, and that patients did not perceive the docs differently. This seems like an opportune time for a similar anesthesia study.

Even so, if walking in in casual clothes is enough to be perceived as less seems rather thin, but, once again, it's institution-dependent. Surgeons at our hospital (by policy) wear ties when they're not in scrubs.

I havent worn a tie since my residency interview days. I'm respected for the physician that I am, not what I wear. Yeah, thats kind of a rebel attitude, but..geez...I cant bring myself to wear a bow tie like many of the "intellect" IM dudes at my institution. I'll stick to scrubs.

What does the CEO of Apple wear? What did Sam Walton wear? Those dudes are way smarter than me. And beyond more successful.

Gimme a break. The fifties are over.

 

[jetproppilot]

I havent worn a tie since my residency interview days. I'm respected for the physician that I am, not what I wear. Yeah, thats kind of a rebel attitude, but..geez...I cant bring myself to wear a bow tie like many of the "intellect" IM dudes at my institution. I'll stick to scrubs.

What does the CEO of Apple wear? What did Sam Walton wear? Those dudes are way smarter than me. And beyond more successful.

Gimme a break. The fifties are over.

Oh, and one more thing, Alan Kaye MD PhD, Rhodes scholar candidate, Chairman of LSU Anesthesia, IQ twice mine, is a casual dresser. No ties in his closet. And look at his success record.

Successful people dont have to hide behind a tie.

 

[militarymd]

Even so, if walking in in casual clothes is enough to be perceived as less seems rather thin, but, once again, it's institution-dependent. Surgeons at our hospital (by policy) wear ties when they're not in scrubs.

Check out my Avatar...I wear a tie underneath my kevlar suit!!!

 

[Annette]

I had a discussion with an intern about dress yesterday. She likes to wear green scrubs (surgery's color), when IM wears blue. In general, it isn't an issue, but in a code, someone might mistake her for surgery, and ask she put in a line (which she isn't allowed to do on her own). Like it or not, society uses subtle "uniforms" to identify position. Ever see a med student wear a long lab coat? Try going into a swank restaurant in trashy clothes and see how you are treated. Patients are going to feel more comfortable when they see their physicians in the approved "uniform" wether scrubs or ties.

 

[cchoukal]

speaking of med students and long coats, Stanford and the U of Chicago have their med students wear long coats (Stanford even embroiders their names). I'd sure think this could lead to confusion, but I know this topic (long coats worn by nurses, techs, dieticians, etc.) has been covered ad nauseum elsewhere.

I'm actually a pretty formal guy and, as an intern, I wear a tie pretty much every day. That said, I get JPP's point about "hiding" behind a tie. I remember being in grad school in counseling psychology and when I first started working with clients in the student counseling center, I felt this need to dress a little better, with this underlying fear that, although I didn't know what I was doing, I should look like I do. By the end of the year, it was polo shirts and khakis. Anyway, I suppose there's some element of that in play with wearing a tie everyday now, because I sure as hell don't know what I'm doing yet.

This is an interesting thread because I think it shows a lot of people's core values, and everyone gets to sort of pass judgement on them, for better or worse...

 

[drPLUM]

I'm just wondering, would you refer to a medical student as "Student Physician Smith" ?

To me, this whole thread is a little weird. I worked on Wall Street before medical school, and I used to call people who made seven and eight figure salaries by their first names.

I'll be nice and just say that the original poster must have "issues."

As an MS3 on my OB/GYN clerkship, the interns introduced themselves to students as "Dr. X" and addressed students, who were on their clerkship, as "Clerk X". This certainly made for a very awkward working environment.

 

[toofache32]

As an MS3 on my OB/GYN clerkship, the interns introduced themselves to students as "Dr. X" and addressed students, who were on their clerkship, as "Clerk X". This certainly made for a very awkward working environment.

I can't help but laugh at that.

 

[powermd]

As an MS3 on my OB/GYN clerkship, the interns introduced themselves to students as "Dr. X" and addressed students, who were on their clerkship, as "Clerk X". This certainly made for a very awkward working environment.

That is freakin' hilarious! I've gotta know what hospital that was at. C'mon, post it!!

 

[jetproppilot]

As an MS3 on my OB/GYN clerkship, the interns introduced themselves to students as "Dr. X" and addressed students, who were on their clerkship, as "Clerk X". This certainly made for a very awkward working environment.

Ahhh, the naive perception of power...in their little, extraordinarily insignificant microcosm...