What to do?!

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LoveDocMD

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So I spent 3 months last summer studying for the MCAT, and now I am re-taking it with a new approach April 1st, 2016.

I am also taking a decent workload of 7 units of upper-division biology classes at UCSB this quarter, which ends 3/13.

Clinical exp: I will have ~200 hours of shadowing experience (with light hands-on experience), ~120 hours of hospital volunteering (only basic hands-on exp. such as giving blankets etc...) , and an EMT-Basic certification (3 ride along shifts with good hands on exp).

non-clinical exp: Homeless shelter volunteer and homeless student tutoring

I am also applying to be a Medical Assistant this quarter, which asks that I work for 8 hrs a week.

The question: I am wondering if it would be a good idea to use those 8 hours getting actual hands-on clinical experience with patients or spend that time studying for the MCAT, of which I got the bulk of the studying done over the summer? Now I will be just reviewing and practicing.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
I got a 512 (~32/33) and my GPA should turn out to be ~3.43. Now I know you guys typically dont see me improving my MCAT, but I know exactly what I did wrong last time, and I know how to fix it!


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@7331poas Im sorry but that makes no sense to me. Please elaborate.


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I would work on getting more EC's and boosting your GPA, if possible. A 512 is not a bad score and probably not worth a retake, IMO.
 
LoveDocMD said:
@7331poas Im sorry but that makes no sense to me. Please elaborate.
Click to expand...
Retaking a 512 when there is a glaringly weak GPA will show poor prioritization and self recognition.

Not to mention the big risks with retaking a pretty solid score (you need to improve significantly, think 518+)
 
I forgot to mention that Im graduating in June, so I dont have many chances to raise my GPA.


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And I am trying not to take a post-bacc!


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I think it would take another full year of all A's to bring up the GPA to a 3.6, you may want to look into one of those 1 year before medical school masters programs.

Edit- I just looked at a chart and it seems that you would go from ~48% chance of acceptance to ~63% chance of acceptance if you either increase MCAT to a 35 equivalent while leaving GPA the same, or by increasing GPA to 3.6 while leaving MCAT the same.

I'd say that the faster route would be to take a chance on the MCAT, but a less luck incorporated, longer route would be to do the masters program to raise the GPA. I'd go with the one year program if I was you, but it's ultimately your choice.
 
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Don't retake the MCAT. Even if you score something equivalent to a 38 taking it twice still looks worse than taking a 512 once for a lot of schools (gyngyn has explained this in a bunch of prior threads I believe).

I'm also a UCSB alum, feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
 
Do not bother retaking that fine score.

Work on improving your GPA!


LoveDocMD said:
I got a 512 (~32/33) and my GPA should turn out to be ~3.43. Now I know you guys typically dont see me improving my MCAT, but I know exactly what I did wrong last time, and I know how to fix it!


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Click to expand...
 
@MikeyDub
Thanks for taking the time to look these stats up for me. I definitely know I'm capable of at least a 35 equivalent. I choked last time, and had I took the old MCAT, I would have gotten a 35. With Psych/Soc, I can really improve my score. I'm going to take the risk to up it to 63% and then see my personal statements/interviews will take me the rest of the way.

@NotWayneBrady
I haven't heard that actually, but thank you for the input! I will look that up. #gogauchos


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LoveDocMD said:
@MikeyDub
Thanks for taking the time to look these stats up for me. I definitely know I'm capable of at least a 35 equivalent. I choked last time, and had I took the old MCAT, I would have gotten a 35. With Psych/Soc, I can really improve my score. I'm going to take the risk to up it to 63% and then see my personal statements/interviews will take me the rest of the way.

@NotWayneBrady
I haven't heard that actually, but thank you for the input! I will look that up. #gogauchos


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Click to expand...
It sounds like you're determined to go this route and if that's the case, I sincerely hope it goes well for you!

But I would also keep in mind that at least some schools average multiple MCAT scores. So even if you succeed in getting a higher score, it may not end up making a significant difference. From what I understand from reading previous posts from gyngyn and others, there can be a fair bit of variability in how specific schools and even specific adcom members approach multiple MCAT scores. Sounds like a pretty big risk to me. :shrug:
 
What has you certain you'd improve? How'd you do on the scored AAMC practice exam?
 
LoveDocMD said:
@NotWayneBrady
I haven't heard that actually, but thank you for the input! I will look that up. #gogauchos
Click to expand...

Couldn't find the thread I was referencing, but this thread explains the general idea.

The point I'm trying to make is even if you are able to significantly improve your score, retaking a decent score is harmful in and of itself.

It can be read to imply you have poor judgement/gunner tendencies etc. There is no way for you to explain "oh but (x adcom) I knew what my problem was, and fixed it the second time!" in your app on paper.

Don't waste your time and money. Improve your GPA, if you're doing research take a bunch of MCDB 199 or independent study units this quarter to boost your GPA for free. You can also do what I did and delay graduating by one quarter, then take a bunch of 199 units over summer to boost your GPA a little. There are a handful of summer research fellowships ($3k+) offered by the schools alumni program for independent research; I received one and it paid for my entire stay over summer.

Edit: Also, your scores are fine so don't trip. They're not 99th percentile or anything, but if you apply broadly and make sure you have a compelling story that sets you apart I'm sure you'll do fine. You can always apply DO as a backup.

#oleoleole
 
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Thanks for the encouragement guys! And @efle I got a 514 on the practice exam, and mainly focused on Bio and Physical sciences (Which i got 130 on each). Consistent focus on CARS and Psych/Soc should get me up a few points.


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I also agree with adding in some DO schools as well, especially if you don't also plan on taking a year off to boost your GPA.
 
LoveDocMD said:
Thanks for the encouragement guys! And @efle I got a 514 on the practice exam, and mainly focused on Bio and Physical sciences (Which i got 130 on each). Consistent focus on CARS and Psych/Soc should get me up a few points.


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Click to expand...
I wouldn't even think about a retake unless you're consistently scoring in the 520's on full-length AAMC practice tests. I know you think you can do better and you may very well be right! But I highly doubt that adcoms will be impressed with an increase of 2-4 points when you already have a great score! Take your 512 and run with it! And in the meantime, focus on boosting other aspects of your app so that they match your perfectly satisfactory MCAT score.

We spend so much time on this site obsessing over how to make our apps better that it can be hard to realize when to quit / refocus our priorities.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time. If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?

As for EC's, I have enough clinical exp to show how much I want to pursue a career in medicine. I have already shown my altruistic personality through homeless outreach. I have over 200 hours of research, and I am looking for more clinical research already. And my personal statement will definitely set me apart (lets just say May 23rd, 2014 is a date I wont ever forget).

A 516 is about a 35 on the MCAT, giving me a Lizzy M score of about 69, which can be a good chance of getting me into at least one MD school am I wrong?

I dont want to look back on this and regret thinking about what I should have done, thats all.


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And can we also address my main question in the beginning? Haha


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LoveDocMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time. If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?

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Click to expand...
Everyone knows adcoms love them shortcuts and easy fixes.
 
LoveDocMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time. If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?

As for EC's, I have enough clinical exp to show how much I want to pursue a career in medicine. I have already shown my altruistic personality through homeless outreach. I have over 200 hours of research, and I am looking for more clinical research already. And my personal statement will definitely set me apart (lets just say May 23rd, 2014 is a date I wont ever forget).

A 516 is about a 35 on the MCAT, giving me a Lizzy M score of about 69, which can be a good chance of getting me into at least one MD school am I wrong?

I dont want to look back on this and regret thinking about what I should have done, thats all.


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Click to expand...

If you retake this score and get the same or worse, people will look poorly on you. If you retake and only gain a couple of points, they'll look poorly on you. If you retake it and score in the 99th percentile, then people may accept it, but still wonder about your thought process on it.

You have little to gain and alot to lose by retaking an already good score. As others have said, a GPA fix is of far more help to you than an MCAT retake. If that means taking some classes to raise your GPA or even doing a DO grade replacement, that will go far further than your current plan. I know you want to get to med school ASAP and feel that you don't want to waste time, but if you don't take the time to make your application as good as possible the first time around, then you lower your chances of getting in to the schools you applied to the first time around. It makes you a reapplicant to those schools and they will want to see what you've done in the meantime that has improved your application. @Goro said it best in that the application process is a marathon, not a sprint. Don't make a mistake here.
 
LoveDocMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time. If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?
Click to expand...

This thought process is worrying. @ThoracicGuy put it best, you have so little to gain on such a huge risk. What worries me is it seems like you won't consider any suggestions dissuading you from retaking it at this point. Save your time and money.

LoveDocMD said:
I dont want to look back on this and regret thinking about what I should have done, thats all.
Click to expand...

That is exactly our point. Work your butt off in the clinical experience and get an awesome letter of rec instead. That will help your app far more than a few extra percentile points on your MCAT.

MCAT and GPA get you to the door. ECs get you through it.
 
Not sure if you realize this, but you've been advised in this thread by actual adcoms to not retake. I'd take their advice to heart.

To put it in no uncertain terms:
  • Do not retake the MCAT
  • If you retake the MCAT, you better score 99th percentile
Adcoms will see that you took the MCAT twice. Some might be impressed by a higher score. From what I've read on this forum in the last few months, it's more likely to reflect poorly on your decision making. Admissions isn't so simple as, well my GPA isn't so great but if I can get X score on my MCAT, it'll make up for it. Especially not as a retake; MCAT scores aren't looked at in a vacuum.

Med school admissions seems to me to favor people who have their **** together the first time around. I think you'll see a lot more success if you work on improving your GPA, throughout this last half of the year and perhaps through an SMP if necessary, gain more relevant clinical experience, and then apply next year. The urge to go to med school out of college is strong, I know. But you should realize that if you're unsuccessful this cycle, you're going into the next one already at a disadvantage. IMO it's better to put your best foot forward the first time, rather than giving it a half-assed shot and then trying again next year. Best of luck!
 
Stats get you to the door, and ECs get you through. BUT, the far most important aspects of the app are having a good app. No one outstanding thing is going to salvage the other mediocre things.

So help me, if you retake that perfectly good score, I'll reach through the electrons and smack you upside the head!

Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time.


Magic thinking won't get you into medical school. Your odds of doing this are, well, poor. A high MCAT will also not save a well < avg sGPA, which suggests that you will have trouble with rigorous courses in med school. A high MCAT just tells us that you are a good test taker when you have lots and lots of preparation. As mentioned above, you do yourself no favors by engaging in hubris. Per example, you would be autorejected at @gyngyn's school.

If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?


Oh stop, just stop. You're not a special snowflake. Survived a horrible accident, or cancer, or saw Gramma die? You're not the first.
And my personal statement will definitely set me apart (lets just say May 23rd, 2014 is a date I wont ever forget).

A 512 will get you into tons of MD schools and every DO school
A 516 is about a 35 on the MCAT, giving me a Lizzy M score of about 69, which can be a good chance of getting me into at least one MD school am I wrong?

This thought process is what I find most worrisome. A career in Medicine isn't "I should have NOT thrown that breaking ball", or "" should have asked that hot chick/guy to the prom". Make good choices and have a good app and you'll be fine.

I dont want to look back on this and regret thinking about what I should have done, thats all.
 
LoveDocMD said:
If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?
Click to expand...
Yes, medical schools want to see that you're prepared. But your current MCAT score already shows that! What people here are trying to tell you is that scoring a few points higher would likely make a negligible difference. For a retake to really make a difference on your app, you need to dramatically improve your score. And in the process of retaking, you run the risk of actually hurting your chances. I know this isn't what you want to hear but if you're looking for something to work on, take the time to work on your GPA. Medical schools aren't going anywhere and, trust me, if you take 1 gap year you'll be in good company. It's very common nowadays.

LoveDocMD said:
And can we also address my main question in the beginning? Haha
Click to expand...
How many hours do you have at the homeless shelter and tutoring? I'm not saying your EC's are bad but, like MCAT and GPA, EC's are also competitive. Don't dismiss them because you're more concerned about numbers.
 
BreakneckWalrus said:
To put it in no uncertain terms:
  • Do not retake the MCAT
  • If you retake the MCAT, you better score 99th percentile
Click to expand...

Everyone keeps saying don't take the MCAT, but if you do then score absurdly high. I think this is unfair, as even if you score 99th percentile it is not a good decision to retake OP's current score. Why even include this hypothetical?

The best-case-scenario here is misleading and baits anyone with the "oh but i'm special, I'll definitely score >99%" mindset into making a poor decision even if they dramatically improved their grade.
 
Goro said:
Oh stop, just stop. You're not a special snowflake. Survived a horrible accident, or cancer, or saw Gramma die? You're not the first.
And my personal statement will definitely set me apart (lets just say May 23rd, 2014 is a date I wont ever forget).
Click to expand...

I didn't feel I had the right to say this first as I'm not even a student yet, but the vague personal tragedy reference already has me worried about the PS OP is going to submit. Personal tragedy sob-stories can get incredibly cookie-cutter and cliche.
 
LoveDocMD said:
And I am trying not to take a post-bacc!
Click to expand...

Why not a masters then? There are tons of really interesting master's programs at UCSB and the surrounding schools. It's an opportunity to kick up your GPA and learn some cool stuff in the process. Taking an extra year before applying does not, contrary to popular belief, cause the world to end. I took two.

https://regenmed.calpoly.edu/
 
NotWayneBrady said:
I didn't feel I had the right to say this first as I'm not even a student yet, but the vague personal tragedy reference already has me worried about the PS OP is going to submit. Personal tragedy sob-stories can get incredibly cookie-cutter and cliche.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I second this. Not going to make any assumptions here but I will say this: Remember, OP, that the focus of your PS should be "Why medicine?"
 
LoveDocMD said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but GPA and MCAT are by far the most important aspects of an application. My GPA is not too great, and the MCAT is the one thing I can do to show my Medical School preparedness in a short amount of time. If I go from a 512 score to even a 516, I go from an 88 percentile to a 95 percentile, setting me way further than a lot of competitive pre-meds. Why would the admissions officers not be impressed by that? They want to see if I am ready for medical school right?
Click to expand...
We will not be impressed. This is not the SAT.
One cannot extrapolate individual results from those charts with multiple MCAT scores.
Your current score is already good enough to show competency.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The May 23rd reference would be the date of the killing spree at UCSB where 6 students were killed and 14 injured.
 
And this is why people say not to take the MCAT until you're ready, and void if you feel it went poorly. You really really really want a single representative score
 
Toutie said:
The May 23rd reference would be the date of the killing spree at UCSB where 6 students were killed and 14 injured.
Click to expand...

Son of a b**** I can't believe I forgot that date.

I wasn't there but sorry if you lost anyone OP, a lot of my friends did.
 
If your goal is to maximize your chances of getting into medical school you will focus on your academic performance and boost your GPA and perhaps do some post-bacc work for a semester or two. Youll also focus on your non academic parts of your app: 3.43/32 are not certainly not terrible numbers. Almost half of those applicants who apply with such stats get an acceptance somewhere.

If your goal is to simply "boost your ego" or make yourself feel better, then sure go ahead and retake a perfectly fine MCAT. Just dont confuse an "ego boost" and improving your medical school chances as the same thing; by and large the odds are strongly in favor of you not helping yourself retaking such a score.

You decide what is more important to you; an ego boost or an improvement in your medical school application/credentials.
 
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Your weakness is your GPA, NOT your MCAT. How is it logical to disregard working on your weakness (GPA) and try to work on a strength (MCAT) if it is great already?! Even if your MCAT increases significantly (which is statistically unlikely), YOU STILL HAVE A LOW GPA. Why not work on the GPA for a more well-rounded application?!?
 
The OP had a thread in "What are my chances" in December and received the exact same advice as here...DO NOT retake a perfectly good MCAT score...and is still ignoring that advice.

My advice to the OP is to go ahead and retake it...you will obviously not be satisfied until you do. Hopefully you will raise your score significantly...and hopefully that will be enough make up for your GPA and EC's to get you into med school. Good luck.
 
If this was me, I'd apply to a 1-year master's program and ask admin if I could start in the summer. Apply with your stats this year and just update schools as you receive your grades. You're going to spend a year anyways, might as well do it productively and get a masters. If you start early, you may even finish by winter and then spring would be a glass of champagne with hopefully an acceptance at hand.
 
Toutie said:
The OP had a thread in "What are my chances" in December and received the exact same advice as here...DO NOT retake a perfectly good MCAT score...and is still ignoring that advice.
.
Click to expand...

That's a damn shame. Why ask for advice at all if you're not going to take it...?
 
Sadly, a lot of people come to SDN to hear what they want to hear.

To the OP, I'm very sorry if the UCSB tragedy affected you. But the PS is not for pissing contests as to who has suffered the greatest tragedy; it's for "Why Medicine?" and "Who Am I?"

NotWayneBrady said:
That's a damn shame. Why ask for advice at all if you're not going to take it...?
Click to expand...
 
LoveDocMD said:
I got a 512 (~32/33) and my GPA should turn out to be ~3.43. Now I know you guys typically dont see me improving my MCAT, but I know exactly what I did wrong last time, and I know how to fix it!


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Click to expand...

Ignoring the SDN echo chamber, what are your subsection scores? If any subsection is <125, you should probably retake to avoid getting screened out by many medical schools. MSAR may have not reported the results for the 2015 MCAT yet, but you really don't want to have a severely unbalanced 512. That looks bad.

@gyngyn and @Goro would you say that a 512 with a 123 in any section warrants a retake despite marginal improvement? It's a pretty crappy case because it's a marginal improvement. That happens when one of the stronger subsections has decreased which is a really really bad situation

Of course OP if your 512 is balanced with all subsections 127 and above, you absolutely should not retake, especially since your practice test score (which may be difficult) is only 514.
 
Goro said:
Sadly, a lot of people come to SDN to hear what they want to hear.
Click to expand...

That seems like an absolutely terrible quality in an aspiring physician.

"I know all of my peers have told me my patient needs to be put on insulin... but I think I'm going to give him Prozac and see what happens."
 
Lawper said:
@gyngyn and @Goro would you say that a 512 with a 123 in any section warrants a retake despite marginal improvement? It's a pretty crappy case because it's a marginal improvement. That happens when one of the stronger subsections has decreased which is a really really bad situation

Of course OP if your 512 is balanced with all subsections 127 and above, you absolutely should not retake, especially since your practice test score (which may be difficult) is only 514.
Click to expand...
Many state schools are perfectly ok with a 7 in verbal, especially with a compensatory elevation in science scores.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agree 100% with the wise gyngyn. VR scores get cut the most slack.

Lawper said:
@gyngyn and @Goro would you say that a 512 with a 123 in any section warrants a retake despite marginal improvement? It's a pretty crappy case because it's a marginal improvement. That happens when one of the stronger subsections has decreased which is a really really bad situation

Of course OP if your 512 is balanced with all subsections 127 and above, you absolutely should not retake, especially since your practice test score (which may be difficult) is only 514.
Click to expand...
 
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