What to do

[jeff2005]

---

Members don't see this ad.

As you all know I have a special affection for the program in Iowa and have pretty much decided to go there, if they take me.

But I just got lectured by my parents, who know me well, that i have no business going to Iowa because a) I hate the cold b) I love a long beautiful fall.

Iowa has
1. long cold winters
2. a very short less beautiful fall

This is now torturing me. I'm a trail runner and run throughout the fall here in beautiful Pennsyvania.

Am I going to be miserable in Iowa?

 

[Doctor B.]

It all depends on what your priorities are. If good weather, nice long falls and short winters are the top priority, Iowa won't meet those criteria. If you like Iowa's program and feel it's your top choice based on how you'll fit in, what kind of training you'll get, etc, don't let the weather sway you. It's only for 4 years anyway. Personally, I think Midwest weather is fine but then again, I've lived in the Midwest all my life. Others will certainly disagree.

 

[RyMcQ]

Iowa has
1. long cold winters
2. a very short less beautiful fall

My perspective may be skewed because I am originally from Utah, but I have found the fall (I've experienced 2 now) to not be short at all. Last winter, we didn't have our first snow until January, and spring came around early (for me). The cold was the most amazing thing for me. Salt Lake City rarely gets below 10 degrees. We had two days in Iowa City (in a milder winter) get down to -12. You should look at the average temperatures and precipitation on Accuweather (click on Averages & Records) to get an idea. Also, see this map at Weather.com to get an idea of when fall ends compared to PA. It looks like the climates are similar (based on other weather maps). Average winter temps are at most 5 degrees colder in Iowa City than Pittsburgh.

Four years of residency in a non-tropical locale is a small price to pay if it gets you a job where you really want to live.

As to whether you are miserable in Iowa, who knows? But you will be miserable if you end up in a crappy program.

 

[jeff2005]

Thanks RyMcQ. I think I'm just going to have to invest in lots of long underwear and maybe some glove warmers. I lived in Missouri for 5 years and found fall to be quite beautiful and the winters bearable. How much worse can iowa be? And when it comes down to it, I don't really care. I love Iowa, the state, the people, and, of course, the program. 😍 I can put up with some cold weather.

 

[yaah]

Am I going to be miserable in Iowa?

Well, I did college in Minnesota (southern), which is a similar climate. I thought fall was generally nice. It does get cold in the winter, but I found that fall wasn't necessarily immediately colder. I guess it all depends on your definition. If you enjoy falls that are 65 degrees then probably not. If you like low 50s or high 40s, there is plenty of that. That is my favorite weather.

But yeah, the others are right, it is the cold. We had a month during my freshman year of college where the temp never got above 10, and usually it was below 0 with a low of -30 (without the wind chill). I think you can handle it though - I never like the wet, cold, windy days. Cold and dry is ok.

I interviewed there almost exactly at this time last year and it was 30 degrees. They said that it was a cold day, for what it's worth.

Don't let a little cold weather bother you - you'll be busy anyway - there will be enough nice fall and spring to enjoy. A word of warning about summer though - it can get humid in the upper midwest...

 

[deschutes]

Iowa has
1. long cold winters
2. a very short less beautiful fall

I was in the area earlier this week and it was misty-rainish and sitting around 60 degrees (that's nearly 20 C, yaah!) x 3 days and there were more oaks still wearing their red than I have ever seen in any of my temperate Novembers. Even if it is an occasional happening throughout the fall, the fact that it does happen was enough to convince me that Iowa was balmy... 😀

Waitaminute - why am I trying to hard to convince you when I haven't decided if want to go there myself... 🙄 😉

 

[jeff2005]

Waitaminute - why am I trying to hard to convince you when I haven't decided if want to go there myself... 🙄 😉

I get a vibe from you that you'd rather not go to Iowa. I will admit that Iowa City is not exactly a place of beautiful architecture and high fashion.

 

[Gut Shot]

I get a vibe from you that you'd rather not go to Iowa. I will admit that Iowa City is not exactly a place of beautiful architecture and high fashion.

It always amazes me how we often let major decisions be guided by such tiny (in the grand scheme) details. In 30 years you likely won't remember your running, the autumn days, the lack of architecture or the low fashion of Iowa City. But you will hopefully still be using your professional training. So if you really want to go there, rank it first, and rely on yourself to adapt the rest of your priorities.

 

[deschutes]

I get a vibe from you that you'd rather not go to Iowa. I will admit that Iowa City is not exactly a place of beautiful architecture and high fashion.

Have I been sending out that vibe? I am trying very hard to be neutral in my posts. Believe it or not, I'm split right down the middle with regards to the two I've seen - for entirely different reasons.

Iowa I have the highest admiration for. To paraphrase a interviewer, you will never see such an emphasis on teaching residents elsewhere, perhaps to the detriment of the research arm. I really don't know what that means for a potential academic career, but I can totally see myself saying "screw it all" and ranking them #1.

UMN was so big and different I felt I was looking at it through a keyhole. But does that mean that I should rank a program lower based on a less-than-ideal visit when some of it could be explained away by logistics on the day itself, and when feedback has otherwise been positive?

I've heard lots about Iowa, less about UMN - does that mean one has a stronger program than the other? My primary sources of info apart from the interview are hearsay and this message board. (My home school faculty naturally has limited radar.) I just don't want to let the sampling bias cloud my decision-making.

About major decisions - I'm all for the Gestalt diagnosis! 😉
I've ignored my gut often enough to know it's the wrong thing to do.

 

[Doctor B.]

I get a vibe from you that you'd rather not go to Iowa. I will admit that Iowa City is not exactly a place of beautiful architecture and high fashion.

You mean thousands of Hawkeye sweatshirts isn't high fashion? 🙂

 

[deschutes]

This is bugging the hell out of me.

I've never thought of myself as frivolous, and certainly never imagined that something like location was going to factor so heavily in my rank list.

But I've come to the realization that for the first time in my young single non-white non-Christian life, I am going to have some money. I don't intend to go nuts with it, but I would like to breathe a little.

I liked Minneapolis-St. Paul because it felt like the cit(ies) would allow me to be as as isolated or as social as I want, that I could be as intellectual or as stupid as I want. I feel like I need some mindlessness to counter the rigors of medicine - and I don't mean in an American undergrad sort of way.

Iowa seemed to be a very healthy intellectually-stimulating environment that I wasn't sure I could keep up with 😀

I certainly don't mean to insult residents or staff on either side of the equation, but does ranking UMN over Iowa constitute a major decision with regards to professional training?

...Maybe next year I'll look back and wonder why I spent so much time deliberating these points... 😳

 

[jeff2005]

This is bugging the hell out of me.

I've never thought of myself as frivolous, and certainly never imagined that something like location was going to factor so heavily in my rank list.

But I've come to the realization that for the first time in my young single non-white non-Christian life, I am going to have some money. I don't intend to go nuts with it, but I would like to breathe a little.

I liked Minneapolis-St. Paul because it felt like the cit(ies) would allow me to be as as isolated or as social as I want, that I could be as intellectual or as stupid as I want. I feel like I need some mindlessness to counter the rigors of medicine - and I don't mean in an American undergrad sort of way.

Iowa seemed to be a very healthy intellectually-stimulating environment that I wasn't sure I could keep up with 😀

I certainly don't mean to insult residents or staff on either side of the equation, but does ranking UMN over Iowa constitute a major decision with regards to professional training?

...Maybe next year I'll look back and wonder why I spent so much time deliberating these points... 😳

I knew it! If I were single I'm sure UMN would be more appealing and I doubt very much that it would make any difference in the trajectory of your future career.

 

[deschutes]

Oh hush! The thing is!! I want to go into academics, probably AP, but I am still wet behind the ears - unlike some of the others who post on this board who are planning on an academic career, who know pretty much what they are looking for in a program.

I don't know anyone, or anything, and I feel like I'm going to need tons of very patient people around to show me the ropes when it comes to figuring out things like what the hell a tenure track is and how to put my efforts where it matters. That's why I'm wondering if Iowa (it isn't any littler, but it sure feels cosier) isn't the better place for that rock-solid foundation.

I could kick myself.

 

[jeff2005]

We are all in the same boat - trying to weigh all these factors, like weather, single men, proximity to Yaah, etc - and it's driving us crazy!

 

[deschutes]

A program transplant! That's what I need. *mutters*

 

[yaah]

Well, I may have had an idea of what I was looking for in a program but that doesn't mean I know all of the permutations of career advancement and the like. I think you would be able to find appropriate guidance at almost any place, because no doubt there will be people there who were in a similar position when they started residency. I also don't think you have to hit the ground running. There is time to get oriented and acquainted with things.

But yes, location is important, as you will be spending a few years of your life there.

 

[deschutes]

I was thinking of Andy and Logos' and Havarti, to name a few...

Not just career advancement in academics, but research options. I don't know how funding works, or how (additional) research interests are developed. I don't need to hit the ground running, but I would like to know enough to be confident that I am asking the right questions in assessing programs...

~
Ah Minneapolis... I loved the place from the moment I stepped out of the airport. 🙂 Funny what these visits tell you about yourself.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

why is my name being muttered now?

--this USC vs. ND game blows!

 

[deschutes]

why is my name being muttered now?

Because you are a trailblazer for the rest of us plebeians! 😉

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Not just career advancement in academics, but research options. I don't know how funding works, or how (additional) research interests are developed.

Hmm...well let's start with funding. Let's see how does this work...hmm...ah yes! Got it! You write a grant application. Then you submit it. Then the reviewers use all 200 pages of the application as toilet paper, crap all over it, and then shove it back in your face with a big REJECTION stamp. So you try again...and again...and again. And eventually you get money and then you can get your research program running.

OK in all seriousness though, the first grant you will probably write up is a KO8 grant application. And I assure you, you and the rest of us who are interested in academic research will get plenty of mentorship from faculty mentors. Have no fear. Just like you'll get through this residency application process, you'll get through some of the initial research hardships like all successful researchers did when they were little kiddies like us.

Now for research interests...that's a tougher subject to handle. All I can say is to keep your eyes open and attend seminars. With serendipity on your side, you will encounter a research problem that catches your attention and interests. Then when you're well on your way on a research project, let the data/results and the significance of those results lead you. Be open to new and exciting and perhaps weird, unrelated research paths that stem from the initial project. And thinking outside the box is a good thing (easier said than done).

 

[Doctor B.]

A program transplant! That's what I need. *mutters*

That was my exact thought when I visited Iowa's program: if I could transplant it to somewhere closer to my family and friends, I'd have ranked it number one hands down. I was in a similar position as you and had it down to Iowa or Indiana. I knew both had good reputations but I'd heard more good things about Iowa. I was torn but I ended up ranking Indiana first because my gut feeling told me that was the right place. While I can't compare the two training-wise since I haven't worked at Iowa, I don't think ending up at Indiana hurt my career at all. You will certainly get good training at UMN or Iowa; let your gut feeling as to where you fit in best and other such intangibles make the decision for you.

 

[deschutes]

Thanks for your support Doc B!

I guess I should not make up my mind so soon that it will be one of these two, since I still have five interviews to go...
But Minneapolis! That has not one, but TWO Malaysian restaurants! And who cares about high fashion and architecture, when I can have Bakers Square with their 27 varieties of pie!
(Always thinking with my stomach.)

~
My research interests were based on the premise "Give me anything - I don't care what." Which is why I feel a bit of a fraud when forced to hold forth on the subject. Say for instance I was talking about my project during an interview, and the interviewer asked if morphometry had a role in the project. Well, I didn't have the faintest idea what morphometry was. I only guessed that it required a larger sample size than we currently have..

That sort of thing.

I know, I know - we all have to start somewhere!

(I just wish I knew more.)