What to expect from P4 career fair?

[pharm4312]

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Hello,

I am wondering what to expect from the P4 career fair that is coming up at our school. It is mostly just the major chains interviewing. I am really not at all sure what to expect.

What would the typical timeline be for the hiring process? How long after the interview would you find out if there was good/bad news? When would you hear about a possible offer and need to make a decision by?

 

[Ackj]

Our career fair was in October, P4s could interview, but I don't think anyone got a job based on these interviews. As said by the Rite Aid guy, it was all just "informational, to get to know you." CVS guy said "we're hiring for a market in Maine and SC, nothing in this state, but if you're interested in re-locating we'll pass the word along for you."

The big chains already have their own interns to interview, probably not looking to pick up somebody they don't know this late in the game. Best bet is to put some applications out there and try to re-connect with anybody you talk to once your license is a little bit closer.

 

[joetrisman]

Disappointment

 

[fauxden]

Tears

 

[rxglasshalffull]

Our career fair was in October, P4s could interview, but I don't think anyone got a job based on these interviews. As said by the Rite Aid guy, it was all just "informational, to get to know you." CVS guy said "we're hiring for a market in Maine and SC, nothing in this state, but if you're interested in re-locating we'll pass the word along for you."

The big chains already have their own interns to interview, probably not looking to pick up somebody they don't know this late in the game. Best bet is to put some applications out there and try to re-connect with anybody you talk to once your license is a little bit closer.

agreed. during my schools community interview day (taken place jan) the only place CVS was hiring for was arizona. walgreens hired someone that speaks spanish to work in a highly spanish-populated area. and that was it. everywhere else told us to contact them after we get our licenses....

 

[boriqua]

Hello,

I am wondering what to expect from the P4 career fair that is coming up at our school. It is mostly just the major chains interviewing. I am really not at all sure what to expect.

What would the typical timeline be for the hiring process? How long after the interview would you find out if there was good/bad news? When would you hear about a possible offer and need to make a decision by?

I wouldn't even waste my time going. they only still do these career fairs to create the false illusion that there are job opportunities. Just like how big chains post hiring ads on every job site so 1000's of idiots can apply and never get a response.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Tears

*looks at username and realizes he/she made a post 2 years ago*

You should stop pursuing a career in pharmacy. The field is completely saturated. I'm a p2 right now. My buddies ahead of me that are p3 and p4s have no job opportunities. If you don't think I'm telling the truth do your research. The old numbers of pharmacists always being in demand are no longer accurate. Pharmacy is the next physical therapy. They were making 70 out of school, they built tons of schools, flooded the market, and now they make in the 40's. Think about this and don't just think ' oh it will work out'...really consider what you are doing. I'm saying this to protect the rest of you from heading into pointless debt and a waste of education/time. We had a pharmacy job fair this year and we had students that had ALREADY graduated coming back to try and find jobs. We are screwed. Don't let the schools fill you full of BS saying that the baby boomer will all retire and this and that. The field is saturated. Get over it. The ship has sailed. We are too late. Don't let people fill your minds with gum drops and bonuses. Those days are long gone.

*looks at username's status as Pharmacist*

With so many thoughts of doom-and-gloom, I assumed you'd be the first person to jump off the pharmacy train. Care to explain why you bothered to make a thread 2 years ago telling people to stay away from pharmacy and yet you decided to do the exact opposite and still pursue it?

 

[boriqua]

*looks at username and realizes he/she made a post 2 years ago*



*looks at username's status as Pharmacist*

With so many thoughts of doom-and-gloom, I assumed you'd be the first person to jump off the pharmacy train. Care to explain why you bothered to make a thread 2 years ago telling people to stay away from pharmacy and yet you decided to do the exact opposite and still pursue it?

so you're saying a 4th, 5th, or 6th year pharmacy student that has already invested all that time and money has to drop out of school in order to warn incoming blind 1st year students about the job market saturation?

 

[Sugoi Travis]

so you're saying a 4th, 5th, or 6th year pharmacy student that has already invested all that time and money has to drop out of school in order to warn incoming blind 1st year students about the job market saturation?

I expected fauxden to reply, not you. But anyways...if you've got time to complain about how there are no jobs and that you don't want to work in Bumf*ckville, then you sure as hell have time to be working on how you can better prepare yourself as a candidate for a place you want to work at. I hope that the poster was aware of that at the time he/she made that thread 2-3 years ago.

And as for your reply...did I ever explicitly state that you have to drop out in order to warn pre-pharmers/1st year students? If you think I did, please quote where I stated that.

 

[koercive]

Very few full time jobs- some floater jobs here and there.. some were there just to show face.

Some of the big chains did do one on one interviews my year. Most of them were group info sessions

 

[boriqua]

I expected fauxden to reply, not you. But anyways...if you've got time to complain about how there are no jobs and that you don't want to work in Bumf*ckville, then you sure as hell have time to be working on how you can better prepare yourself as a candidate for a place you want to work at. I hope that the poster was aware of that at the time he/she made that thread 2-3 years ago.

And as for your reply...did I ever explicitly state that you have to drop out in order to warn pre-pharmers/1st year students? If you think I did, please quote where I stated that.

Excuse me, when you said "Care to explain why you bothered to make a thread 2 years ago telling people to stay away from pharmacy and yet you decided to do the exact opposite and still pursue it?" i thought you were implying that fauxden was a hypocrite for staying in the program while warning others about the job market saturation. Now I realize that in actuality, you are just concerned about his schedule and how he spends his free time. my mistake.

 

[fauxden]

Seems this sugoi fellow has some pent up hostility....eh whatever. I still think I'm pretty right. And yeah. I graduated. Sorry about that.

 

[BMBiology]

Just keep in mind that an offer is not contactual which means it can be changed at any time. You may be given just 30 hours a week or a pharmacy in the boonies. You may be given just 4 hours a day or 12 hours a day.

The bottom line is to keep on looking even if you already have an offer. The chains are known to screw the new grads.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Excuse me, when you said "Care to explain why you bothered to make a thread 2 years ago telling people to stay away from pharmacy and yet you decided to do the exact opposite and still pursue it?" i thought you were implying that fauxden was a hypocrite for staying in the program while warning others about the job market saturation. Now I realize that in actuality, you are just concerned about his schedule and how he spends his free time. my mistake.

No and no. I'd like to know his reasons. Can't I be curious?

I'm still waiting for that quote where I explicitly said that you have to drop out in order to warn people.

Seems this sugoi fellow has some pent up hostility....eh whatever. I still think I'm pretty right. And yeah. I graduated. Sorry about that.

I wasn't being hostile. I was being direct. Being direct does not always mean you're being hostile.

 

[Ackj]

*looks at username and realizes he/she made a post 2 years ago*



*looks at username's status as Pharmacist*

With so many thoughts of doom-and-gloom, I assumed you'd be the first person to jump off the pharmacy train. Care to explain why you bothered to make a thread 2 years ago telling people to stay away from pharmacy and yet you decided to do the exact opposite and still pursue it?

So if he's e a pharmacist now, 2 years ago he'd be a P3. That means you expected him to "jump off the train" after 5 years of investment? I think it's fair to warn others before they get to the point of no return. You can make that warning while being beyond that point.

 

[boriqua]

So if he's e a pharmacist now, 2 years ago he'd be a P3. That means you expected him to "jump off the train" after 5 years of investment? I think it's fair to warn others before they get to the point of no return. You can make that warning while being beyond that point.

he's trying to claim that since we can't quote where he said that verbatim, it's not what he meant. even though it was painfully obvious to me, you, and anybody with more than a half a brain that that's what he meant when he typed his comment.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

So if he's e a pharmacist now, 2 years ago he'd be a P3. That means you expected him to "jump off the train" after 5 years of investment? I think it's fair to warn others before they get to the point of no return. You can make that warning while being beyond that point.

Hey I'm just going by what the naysayers are claiming. If there are truly no jobs, then why bother even pursuing this path if it's going to get you nowhere but to a barren land of no jobs and no opportunities? I couldn't pick up any sign of him/her making career changes so that's why I was ultimately curious.

I see these "no job" threads and posts pop up often on these forums. I know that despite the over-exaggerations, there is truth in these threads and posts. However, to claim that there are no jobs and to instill this as reality in the forums, but still pursue this path, strikes me as unusual.

From the countless number of omgnojobstheskyisfallingandthearmageddonishere posts/threads to the few realistic comments I've read, the field as a whole is somewhere between "you're going to have to work harder for that job" and "get the hell out of here." Is it wrong that I am being skeptical about these "no job" posts? Which posts are reality and which are merely anectodal? If there truly were no jobs, shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more posts about it than there are now? I'm having a hard time pinning where exactly the profession is right now because the naysayers, IMO, are destroying their own arguments by being overly-exaggerating to the point that I can't take these posts seriously anymore.

/inb4 youstupidnaivepharmstudent

he's trying to claim that since we can't quote where he said that verbatim, it's not what he meant. even though it was painfully obvious to me, you, and anybody with more than a half a brain that that's what he meant when he typed his comment.

Seriously; what is your problem? Just because it sounded like I was implying something doesn't mean that I truly implied it. You "thought" I implied something. I didn't intend to imply anything. I was being honest-to-god curious.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Hey I'm just going by what the naysayers are claiming. If there are truly no jobs, then why bother even pursuing this path if it's going to get you nowhere but to a barren land of no jobs and no opportunities? I couldn't pick up any sign of him/her making career changes so that's why I was ultimately curious.

I see these "no job" threads and posts pop up often on these forums. I know that despite the over-exaggerations, there is truth in these threads and posts. However, to claim that there are no jobs and to instill this as reality in the forums, but still pursue this path, strikes me as unusual.

From the countless number of omgnojobstheskyisfallingandthearmageddonishere posts/threads to the few realistic comments I've read, the field as a whole is somewhere between "you're going to have to work harder for that job" and "get the hell out of here." Is it wrong that I am being skeptical about these "no job" posts? Which posts are reality and which are merely anectodal? If there truly were no jobs, shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more posts about it than there are now? I'm having a hard time pinning where exactly the profession is right now because the naysayers, IMO, are destroying their own arguments by being overly-exaggerating to the point that I can't take these posts seriously anymore.

It's bad. Isn't that enough? Come on now...

 

[boriqua]

Hey I'm just going by what the naysayers are claiming. If there are truly no jobs, then why bother even pursuing this path if it's going to get you nowhere but to a barren land of no jobs and no opportunities? I couldn't pick up any sign of him/her making career changes so that's why I was ultimately curious.

I see these "no job" threads and posts pop up often on these forums. I know that despite the over-exaggerations, there is truth in these threads and posts. However, to claim that there are no jobs and to instill this as reality in the forums, but still pursue this path, strikes me as unusual.

From the countless number of omgnojobstheskyisfallingandthearmageddonishere posts/threads to the few realistic comments I've read, the field as a whole is somewhere between "you're going to have to work harder for that job" and "get the hell out of here." Is it wrong that I am being skeptical about these "no job" posts? Which posts are reality and which are merely anectodal? If there truly were no jobs, shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more posts about it than there are now? I'm having a hard time pinning where exactly the profession is right now because the naysayers, IMO, are destroying their own arguments by being overly-exaggerating to the point that I can't take these posts seriously anymore.

/inb4 youstupidnaivepharmstudent

Seriously; what is your problem? Just because it sounded like I was implying something doesn't mean that I truly implied it. You "thought" I implied something. I didn't intend to imply anything. I was being honest-to-god curious.

Lol it's like saying to an overweight girl "i'm curious as to why you would wear that bikini in public", and then after she smacks you, you go "what? i never explicitly stated that you were fat, i was just honest-to-god curious why"

as for you being skeptical about what people say about the job market, that's certainly within your right. You don't have to believe a word that real pharmacists who have graduated and tried to look for a job say. The best way to see how hard it is out there is to graduate and go out and experience it yourself.

 

[68quebec]

Lol it's like saying to an overweight girl "i'm curious as to why you would wear that bikini in public", and then after she smacks you, you go "what? i never explicitly stated that you were fat, i was just honest-to-god curious why"


so what should I say to her ? "I think that bikini really seems beautiful" or "this is not your planet"

😛

J/K

 

[pharm4312]

If we could please keep this on topic. I'm really just looking for some perspectives from recent grads on what to expect regarding a timeline/job offers from chains at a P4 career fair.

 

[lisinopril]

I got my hospital job from the career fair at my school.

"got" means recently? or back in 2000?

 

[croquemonsieur]

Our career fair was pretty pathetic last year. Here's who was there: Rite Aid and 2 grocery store chains. Walgreens didn't bother showing up.

 

[joetrisman]

Our career fair was pretty pathetic last year. Here's who was there: Rite Aid and 2 grocery store chains. Walgreens didn't bother showing up.

Ditto. And our job fair was more or less a meet and greet. There wasn't any serious job talk going on.

 

[pharm B]

At our career fair last year, I think one hospital system showed, but it's mainly retail chains these days. Not sure what to expect this year.

 

[pharm4312]

How does it work with location preferences at the chains? Do you interview and they ask where you are interested in going? I am in a highly saturated state and I know there are little jobs here, but would relocate to certain areas (read NYC or chicago).

 

[homeslice]

How does it work with location preferences at the chains? Do you interview and they ask where you are interested in going? I am in a highly saturated state and I know there are little jobs here, but would relocate to certain areas (read NYC or chicago).

I can tell you right now that's not happening.

 

[boriqua]

How does it work with location preferences at the chains? Do you interview and they ask where you are interested in going? I am in a highly saturated state and I know there are little jobs here, but would relocate to certain areas (read NYC or chicago).

I think you misunderstand what we mean by "relocate". That doesn't mean moving to a place of your desire like NYC or chicago. That means moving to a place where nobody would ever want to go to like witchita, kansas or ralston, nebraska. hence the need for pharmacists there because it is such a undesirable place to live. Everyone and their mother wants to be in new york so finding a job here will be next to impossible without some kind of connection

 

[pharm4312]

I think you misunderstand what we mean by "relocate". That doesn't mean moving to a place of your desire like NYC or chicago. That means moving to a place where nobody would ever want to go to like witchita, kansas or ralston, nebraska. hence the need for pharmacists there because it is such a undesirable place to live. Everyone and their mother wants to be in new york so finding a job here will be next to impossible without some kind of connection

Lets say you receive an offer for a chain as a result of the P4 career fair. You decide you do not want the offer because you are not prepared to relocate. If you decline, are you then prevented from applying to the company for a period of time?

 

[boriqua]

Lets say you receive an offer for a chain as a result of the P4 career fair. You decide you do not want the offer because you are not prepared to relocate. If you decline, are you then prevented from applying to the company for a period of time?

hmm. good question. I'm not really sure of the answer. Although i gotta say, at the rate i was applying to chains and getting shot down, if i got an offer from them, i wouldn't care if it was in siberia, i'd jump at the chance. never heard of anybody turning down an offer from a chain after graduating.

 

[type b pharmD]

hmm. good question. I'm not really sure of the answer. Although i gotta say, at the rate i was applying to chains and getting shot down, if i got an offer from them, i wouldn't care if it was in siberia, i'd jump at the chance. never heard of anybody turning down an offer from a chain after graduating.

:what: on the other side of the coin... several of my friends turned down one or more offers.

This jobs thing is severely location dependent

 

[boriqua]

:what: on the other side of the coin... several of my friends turned down one or more offers.

This jobs thing is severely location dependent

did those friends intern/tech for the chains throughout their school year? those are the only ones getting offers where i'm from anyways. a random hire getting an offer starting at p4? practically unheard of.

out of curiosity, what location are you speaking of?

 

[type b pharmD]

did those friends intern/tech for the chains throughout their school year? those are the only ones getting offers where i'm from anyways. a random hire getting an offer starting at p4? practically unheard of.

out of curiosity, what location are you speaking of?

heh. rural midwest. Yes , people with multiple offers that I know (very small sample size of course <10) ... one of them was pretty much universally from a former employer.

"random" hires are bs .. nobody is going to hire someone they don't know who doesnt have a license. Unless very special circumstances.

edit:
The picture around here is that as long as you are willing to go somewhere with <100,000 people you have a decent shot if you have connections and contacts ... I dont really consider a town too rural unless it is <20,000 people.. Those are the places that would take "random" hires .. at least with the companies I have experience with .. I have been scoping out the hiring patterns for a while. I do know some new grads with 0 experience though that have been hired in cities of several hundred thousand .. so it is not looking too "bad" even here.

again.. on the flip side .. in 2012 walgreens only hired 2 new graduates for the metro area of 500,000-1M nearest to me .. but that was due to some special circumstances ie the hiring freeze, local layoffs, POWER, etc.

I agree the days of multiple offers during P4 year sight unseen w/o experience are completely over. You have to prove yourself first or be willing to move to a very small town. But people are still getting offers in the metro areas here .. it just requires connections and experience, and or waiting until graduation.

 

[type b pharmD]

did those friends intern/tech for the chains throughout their school year? those are the only ones getting offers where i'm from anyways. a random hire getting an offer starting at p4? practically unheard of.

out of curiosity, what location are you speaking of?

I guess I also agree that P4 career fair is BS for the most part at this point. The only people I have heard of getting offers from last years are LTC, Compounding/Independent, and Community Hospital , and each employer hired about 1-2 people total out of people with superb resumes and interviewing skills. Retail was info sessions or interview if you were willing to move to places like extreme rural nebraska, kansas, texas, northern michigan, etc .. from the limited amount i have heard ... all local retail jobs were offered through word of mouth or to current employees only. That said I do know a lot of interns who were NOT offered positions locally , mostly due to the fact that they were slackers or hard to deal with personalities. So if you are better than them, you have at least a chance.

 

[DiomedeaExulans]

I've been to a few career fairs and networking meetings at my school. Many of the company reps there seem to be bored and can't wait to for it to be over. They just talk to each other instead of talking to the students. When I try to talk to them they don't seem interested at all in what I have to say. We are just wasting each other's time. Do the companies use such events for anything at all besides making it look like there are jobs? I haven't been to the interviews yet, but based on what I've seen so far, I'm dreading them.

 

[joetrisman]

I've been to a few career fairs and networking meetings at my school. Many of the company reps there seem to be bored and can't wait to for it to be over. They just talk to each other instead of talking to the students. When I try to talk to them they don't seem interested at all in what I have to say. We are just wasting each other's time. Do the companies use such events for anything at all besides making it look like there are jobs? I haven't been to the interviews yet, but based on what I've seen so far, I'm dreading them.

My experience is that it is just a meet and greet. No real jobs to be given unless your CV projects you as highly desirable. I had two of the companies hounding me for months until match due to my work history, management experience, and other degrees.

 

[Skrumpy]

To the OP, maybe it would be more beneficial if you at least listed the surrounding area where you are graduating from? As you can see, the market is pretty varied depending on where you are looking. I can tell you that (from what I heard - both 1st & 2nd hand) everyone that was looking from last year's graduating class in MN was able to find a job even before finishing boards. Half the time I'm not sure if MN is in its own little pocket of reality or if people posting about all this massive over saturation are exaggerating slightly.

 

[BMBiology]

To the OP, maybe it would be more beneficial if you at least listed the surrounding area where you are graduating from? As you can see, the market is pretty varied depending on where you are looking. I can tell you that (from what I heard - both 1st & 2nd hand) everyone that was looking from last year's graduating class in MN was able to find a job even before finishing boards. Half the time I'm not sure if MN is in its own little pocket of reality or if people posting about all this massive over saturation are exaggerating slightly.

Just note that a job offer does not always equate to a 40 hour per week position. It's not contractual which means they can just you 20 hours a week (or just 4 hours a day x 5 days a week) or you may have to relocate to Zimbabwe for the job. The point? Take it with a grain of salt when someone says XYZ chain offered me a position. They are known to screw the new graduates around.

There may be some locations that are not saturated yet but they will be within a year or two as the flood of new graduates accept reality and move to these places. Just wait until December when the first student loan payment is due.

 

[joetrisman]

To the OP, maybe it would be more beneficial if you at least listed the surrounding area where you are graduating from? As you can see, the market is pretty varied depending on where you are looking. I can tell you that (from what I heard - both 1st & 2nd hand) everyone that was looking from last year's graduating class in MN was able to find a job even before finishing boards. Half the time I'm not sure if MN is in its own little pocket of reality or if people posting about all this massive over saturation are exaggerating slightly.

Yep, we're making this 'ish up🙄

Rennie T and Anderson C. Oversupply and Under-resourced: The Global Context of Pharmacy Education. Am J Pharm Educ. 2013 August 12; 77(6): 111.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3748292/

Brown DL. A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy. Am J Pharm Educ. 2013 June 12; 77(5): 90. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/

Colbert J, Ly T, Lew M, et al. How the opening of new schools in California may affect pharmacy manpower. Drug Topics. 2012.
http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.co...w-opening-new-schools-california-may-affect-p

Brown DL. From shortage to surplus: the hazards of uncontrolled academic growth. Am J Pharm Educ. 2010;74(10):Article 185
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3058448/

 

[type b pharmD]

Just note that a job offer does not always equate to a 40 hour per week position. It's not contractual which means they can just you 20 hours a week (or just 4 hours a day x 5 days a week) or you may have to relocate to Zimbabwe for the job. The point? Take it with a grain of salt when someone says XYZ chain offered me a position. They are known to screw the new graduates around.

There may be some locations that are not saturated yet but they will be within a year or two as the flood of new graduates accept reality and move to these places. Just wait until December when the first student loan payment is due.

Not everyone will consider relocating. Roughly 30% of the pharmacy students in my area are from california, and while jobs are relatively available here in rural areas, I have not met a single student in class, work, or rotations that was not adamant about "going back to cali" even when they knew the job situation. I think part of it is the asian traditional family view type of thing.. but I know a handful that had offers for 15 hours per week floating for example in inland empire or rural CA that were planning to just do that or use their freebie year on IBR to just prn and spend time with family.

If you play your cards right you really can get 18 or more months of loan grace period using ibr correctly. Bringing in a few thousand per month during that time isn't too terribly bad.

Personally I don't want to work more than 20-30 hours per week at first, in order to pursue other interests and get my life started so to speak. So I'm looking at prn or part time at first which just so happens to be easier to find. Ill consider full time if the employer will make me an offer I can't refuse of course.

Just saying. .. it is not all cut and dried, black and white like posters on here say.
A lot of pharmacy students are from affluent urban backgrounds and would rather go home and struggle for full time versus abandoning cities and family.. maybe they will change their tune in a few years but I have not met a single student from out of state that was planning to stay here after graduation.