What would you do if you were in my shoes?

[md953]

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First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

 

[Doglover4fever]

First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

I don't want to sound harsh, or discouraging, but I think you should look into another option. You are obviously struggling in the sciences, and medical school is as demanding as you can get in these areas. Instead of spending years of your life fighting to boost your GPA with post bacc or SMP programs, you might want to devote that time to another career choice. Keep in mind, medical school is very fast paced, and you only have one chance to "get" the material. You will not be able to take immunology and physiology over and over again until you "prove" you can master it (no post baccs in med school). I am not saying you are not a hard working, caring person, and you might make a great physician, but schools do go by numbers, and your GPA just does not cut it. For every applicant who has struggled to get Bs and Cs in science classes, there are hundreds of students who ace those same courses while conducting research, volunteering, and tutoring orphans overseas in Somalia. If you are interested in healthcare, maybe look into nursing or PA. The current nursing shortage makes it a very desirable, well paying, and flexible career field. The reality is, there are many many applicants out there with 3.7+ GPAs, 30+ MCATs, and impressive ECs that would be in the same pool with you. You have to be honest with yourself. Don't torture yourself pursuing something unrealistic.

 

[bbas]

Uh, last I checked a "B" does not constitute struggling. While your GPA may keep you out of the top schools, a 3.0 GPA is definitely not low enough to call it quits. I would think about doing a post-bac, and start working on the EC's ASAP. Since you will likely have a lower GPA than the average applicant, you will need above average EC's and MCAT score. Also, have you looked into DO schools?

 

[md953]

I don't want to sound harsh, or discouraging, but I think you should look into another option. You are obviously struggling in the sciences, and medical school is as demanding as you can get in these areas. Instead of spending years of your life fighting to boost your GPA with post bacc or SMP programs, you might want to devote that time to another career choice. Keep in mind, medical school is very fast paced, and you only have one chance to "get" the material. You will not be able to take immunology and physiology over and over again until you "prove" you can master it (no post baccs in med school). I am not saying you are not a hard working, caring person, and you might make a great physician, but schools do go by numbers, and your GPA just does not cut it. For every applicant who has struggled to get Bs and Cs in science classes, there are hundreds of students who ace those same courses while conducting research, volunteering, and tutoring orphans overseas in Somalia. If you are interested in healthcare, maybe look into nursing or PA. The current nursing shortage makes it a very desirable, well paying, and flexible career field. The reality is, there are many many applicants out there with 3.7+ GPAs, 30+ MCATs, and impressive ECs that would be in the same pool with you. You have to be honest with yourself. Don't torture yourself pursuing something unrealistic.

Have you considered other career options because apparently you are getting waitlisted left, right and center.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3645787#post3645787

 

[razmataz]

First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

i think you still have a good chance to make it without retaking classes , but you really need to get more A's in the other upper level science courses and other non-science classes you take. do well on MCAT and put in the rest of the EC's like volunteering, research, and other clubs/sports/fraternity/hobbies/whatever.

i dont think the intl thing should be too big of a factor, but i do hear you might need to have all the money up front??? im not sure but i thought i saw that somewhere.

i had a 2.3 overall and brought it up to a 3.11 by getting more A's and some B's my last 3 years. i had 9 interviews 7 waitlists pending and 1 acceptance right now.

 

[chandelantern]

It is good you decided to post-pone the MCAT. the premed process is not a race. First of all, I think it will help if you are able to get permanent residency and have a state med school, because as an international student you would be limited in the number of schools that would consider you, and yes, from what I've heard, it is more difficult to get accepted as an international student (possibly just rumor?) I've heard that med schools want to give their seats to deserving residents first, and then to outstanding international students. Anyway, getting your perm. residency can't hurt.

Next, I don't know if I'd retake those classes because they are still going to see and factor in your first grade anyway. I think it would be more impressive if you take and get A's in more advanced coursework in those fields (like biochemistry, physiology, genetics, etc.) Are you a science major? If not, I would definitely try to get alot of upper div science classes in, perhaps even taking an extra year and doing a post-bac. At the same time, since your grades are well below average for matriculants, you'll really want to have some impressive EC's, which you may want to take a couple years after undergrad to improve. Remember, it's not a race and there is more than one road that leads to the same place.

 

[md953]

It is good you decided to post-pone the MCAT. the premed process is not a race. First of all, I think it will help if you are able to get permanent residency and have a state med school, because as an international student you would be limited in the number of schools that would consider you, and yes, from what I've heard, it is more difficult to get accepted as an international student (possibly just rumor?) I've heard that med schools want to give their seats to deserving residents first, and then to outstanding international students. Anyway, getting your perm. residency can't hurt.

Next, I don't know if I'd retake those classes because they are still going to see and factor in your first grade anyway. I think it would be more impressive if you take and get A's in more advanced coursework in those fields (like biochemistry, physiology, genetics, etc.) Are you a science major? If not, I would definitely try to get alot of upper div science classes in, perhaps even taking an extra year and doing a post-bac. At the same time, since your grades are well below average for matriculants, you'll really want to have some impressive EC's, which you may want to take a couple years after undergrad to improve. Remember, it's not a race and there is more than one road that leads to the same place.

thanks for your response. The poster earlier was plain rude. I mean I never asked what are my chances? I know my gpa is not stellar plus i havent even taken the MCAT yet and he/she is saying consider something else.

Getting PR is not in my hand. I want it ASAP. Thats another reason why I am taking my time to apply. I realize I have best shot with my PR status! Yeah I am thinking of going an extra year in school and take lots of upper div classes (and do well ofcourse)

and yes im a biology major

 

[MollyMalone]

The most important thing for you to do is to rock whatever classes you do take, whether they be post-bac, SMP, or undergrad. Have you figured out your plan of attack for what you intend to do differently? Make sure you have a solid idea of how you intend to improve before you jump into taking more classes.

I agree that retaking is possibly not the best use of your time, unless you plan to go DO in which case it would help more directly. I'm not an expert on this but it sounds to me like a post-bacc might a good thing. There is a whole post-bac forum here where you might find some useful info.

Good luck!

Edited to add: I would hold off on getting involved with more EC's until you find yourself performing up to your goals academically.

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Have you considered other career options because apparently you are getting waitlisted left, right and center.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3645787#post3645787

nice 👍

 

[odrade1]

First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

Come up with a realistic plan.
This means
a) finding out (For real, by contacting schools or reading it in MSAR) which schools take international students, how many students they take, and what the average scores are for those schools.
b) coming up with the funding (foreign students are supposed to have proof of ability to pay for their expenses FOR THE ENTIRE MEDSCHOOL experience. In many cases this means demonstrating 150-250 K in assetts. It is my understanding that the US Fed won't give you educational loans for med school, as a foreign student. You cited financial difficulties in your post. Is it even realistic to try and attend medical school here in the US?
c) Changing your life. If your grades continue on their current trend, you will not get into a US medical school. Why did you get the bad grades before? (yes, a string of Bs and Cs in science classes is bad.) Wanting As and getting them are two different things entirely. Are you ready to live and study differently? Obviously, whatever you were doing before wasn't working. Molly was right; ECs won't amount to a hill of beans if your grades stay where they are.
d) Be prepared to take extra time. You may need to do post-bac work (it sounds like it), and you may need to wait to apply, depending on how strong your application is when you enter your junior or senior years.

Earlier you asked about when to take the mcat. It sounds like you have taken all the necessary classes already. Usually, I advocate taking the test within a few months of completing the pre-med/mcat sequence of courses. However, you didn't do well in those classes, so you shouldn't expect to do well on the mcat (all else being equal, and the mcat being what it is). If your pre-test efforts are realistic (you timed yourself, took legitimate pre-tests, didn't practice "open book" or such), and you are doing well, then go ahead and try the mcat. If your pre-tests are still a bunch of 8s (or 9s, depending on your state), then you need to get professional help (kaplan) or pray that studying can fix your problem.

You didn't like the earlier advice to consider a different career, but it is a fair piece of advice. It sounds like you may be a junior (you have finished ochem, for example), and you have yet to distinguish yourself as even a reliably average science student. Maybe this is because of something that you can easily change (such as ditching a demanding boyfriend or smoking less weed). But until you can show that you are both a good student and a good science student, no MD or DO school will give your application a serious look. If you can do this, then great. If not, then you need to consider other healthcare careers, or careers in something that isn't science-related.

I meet premeds all the time who have your grades and these people say things like "I'm going to be a surgeon." These people I have met almost universally like the idea of being a doctor, yet hate school, but more specifically: they hate (or are ambivalent about) science. I don't know if you hate science or not, but if you do, then you don't need to go into medicine; if you don't hate science, then either you aren't smart enough or you aren't working hard enough. Of these three possibilities, two demand a career in something other than medicine. The third demands that you change your life (see above). There is no shame in wanting to do something and then ending up doing something else because you realize that it really isn't the best fit for you (I changed careers in order to go into medicine). Consider all options, not just the MD option.

Good luck refining your goals, and in meeting your goals, whatever they end up being!

 

[haleyrockx]

First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

Just study your tush off and try to bring up later science grades. Try taking some easy classes, if possible, in the summer and getting A's. That will not only help your GPA little by little, but it will boost your confidence. It gets hard once your grades start getting lower, so sometimes you just need a confidence boost. Then, just remember, that grades are not entirely indicative of ability. You may not mesh well with your professor's testing style and get a poor grade, even though you may know the material. If that's the case, it will hopefully show on the MCAT. Also, try tutoring or getting tutoring. Most schools have it either free or really cheap. Sometimes it helps to discuss the material with someone other than reading the book again or your notes. The point is, if you want this, keep at it. Find what works for you. You can do it. 🙂

And, by all means, don't listen to people that are trying to keep you down. If they say you may want to change your career goals, just work that much harder to prove them wrong. Don't listen to the negativity- that can hurt you so much more than anything else. Remember, all of us on here are trying to get in too. I've noticed that some bring out the negativity to try to discourage others so there is less competition. Choose to only listen to the positive advice. 😉

 

[DoctorPardi]

Ask yourself what you are doing wrong to make bad grades? Do you go into tests thinking "wow I studied a lot and I should do great!" and then come out with a C? Or is it that you go in knowing you didn't study enough, or knowing you studied a lot but still don't grasp the material?

Try to break down your problems in this manner, figure out what it is that is going wrong. If for example you find yourself going into the exam not knowing the information even though you studied, then try to spend more time in your professor's office hours or with a tutor. Learning how to learn is a huge problem a lot of people have. I almost never studied or did homework at all in high school and went into college with no study skills. My first year grades reflect that, but once I started trying to study and having these types of brainstorming sessions about my own failures I was able to refine my study sessions into more efficient focused and productive times.

Also there could be another reason you aren't performing well, it could be you are taking a full load, working a full time job and you have a kid, or a house to maintain or any number of things that take time away from studying. Again figure these things out, think about your typical monday, what do you do? Do you have 2 hours to study every monday? Or are you inundated with household chores, work or a needy partner? Some of these things you can eliminate or reduce. Also if you are taking 15-18 hours a semester then I think it is obvious you need to chill out. Maybe next semester take 3 "real" classes and something easy like beginning tennis, so you maintain full time status. This will be an ideal semester so you can really hone your study skills under less pressure and then apply these new skills to more difficult 5 course semesters to follow.

Again I'll reiterate what others have said, this isn't a race, don't rush yourself. You will not look back on these extra years in college as a waste when you're 60 or 70, you'll probably be glad you spent some more time hanging out on campus instead of slaving away at the hospital or in the office. I will often find myself thinking "oh well if I take this and this and this I can load up my semester but finish early!!" but it just isn't worth it, you'll hurt your grades more and end up not getting in.

The main thing is, get A's from here until you graduate. If you took 3 classes a semester and 2 each summer semester you would be taking just about as many classes are you are now and you would probably make better grades. So number one is improving your skills so every semester you can suceed at a high level (A's) and number two is probably getting EC's. Volunteer at a hospital, shadow a doctor, do some research over the summer, get involved in stuff, but DO NOT do this to a detriment to your grades. I would suggest you not even doing any ECs that require more than 5 hours a week from you until you've gotten the ability to maintain straight A's.

 

[Cinnameg]

First off, I just want to make it clear that this is not one of those "What are my chances?" thread. I just want some feedback as to what I should do. Maybe some of you who have been through the application process can comment on this and tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes.

Both my sci and overall gpa are by no means stellar. Both are ~3.0-3.1 and I definitely have to improve on that. I am considered an international student (on H4 visa, not F1.) I am currently a junior and decided against taking MCAT this year (not ready plus other factors) I thought it would smart to put off MCAT for now. I would rather do well than rush it now and take it just for the sake of it. I realize it is an important part of the application and it is vital to do well on it.

I attened a private univ my freshmen year and then I took a semester off and transferred to a local state university (due to financial reasons since I had no aid or scholarship from my previous school.) So, I decided to go somewhere cheaper. I am hoping MD schools are more understanding this/my situation.

A little more about my grades;
Ochem 1: B- Ochem2: C+ Calc 1: C
I have string of B's (bio 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2, physiology, genetics, chem 2) and some A's (cell bio, chem 1) obviously this has to change and I have to get more A's from here on out.

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

I know as an intl student it might be harder to get into med school but it is not impossible and I am in process for getting my permanent residency..just dont know when, i have applied for a while now, it is just taking a very long time. I dont know what schools are more open to intl students..

I feel for you. I cannot address the issue of being an international student, I know nothing about that, but I CAN address the issue of grades. My grades in straight-up science courses (not counting psychology, which is a science but just not a pre-med one) were not stellar as an undergraduate. After a string of C's freshman and sophomore year I just gave up, actually, and decided to try and look for another career. Clearly, I'm meant to be a doctor, because I came right back around to medicine, all my interests and my passion pointed right to that. After graduating from college, I did a post-bac pre-med program for a year at Mills, and then during my application year I took 3 more science courses at night and did some activities (therapist for autistic kids, case manager for schizophrenic adult men) that padded my resume. This approach worked for me because I DID give up earlier, so I was only technically re-taking one course (chemistry). But, to give you some encouragement, even by the time I applied I only had a science GPA of about 3.3 and an overall of 3.5 (possibly higher now due to the 3 new classes, but who cares), and I still got into several US medical schools.

Note: Many post-bac programs only want people who have NOT taken their pre-med courses yet. If you want to re-take courses to get better grades, there are other post-bac programs who specialize in that, or else it's just easier to take classes at your local state school (a lot of people do that in San Francisco at USF).

For you, I'd recommend re-taking o-chem, taking 2 or 3 upper division courses and doing well (don't do too many! fewer classes with A's is better than more with B's) and while you're doing that build your resume with both research and community service involving a lot of caring people-contact. RESEARCH IS VERY IMPORTANT. My application was about evenly divided between research experiences (worked in 5 labs total, did a thesis, a publication, a conference poster presentation) and people-contact experiences (crisis counselor, support group leader, clinical experience abroad, etc) and I ALWAYS got asked about the research experience first, in every interview. Research experience will add to the impression that you are intelligent and talented in the sciences, I think, so I'd say get yourself into a biology lab that does something cool and after a semester see if you can get your own project that might lead to a publication. Not easy to do if you're not at a research university, but if you can do it, don't hesitate.

Good luck!!! 🙂

 

[silas2642]

Have you considered other career options because apparently you are getting waitlisted left, right and center.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3645787#post3645787

That was awesome, man. Are you related to Chuck Norris?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

So what would you do if you were in my situation? (When to apply, take MCAT, retake ocehm 1 and 2 (?), more upper level sci classes to prove I can do well (?) .. post bacc? SMP? also what about EC's; I dont have much yet but have ~100 hours of volunteer work in the hospital.. I have the summer free, should I shadow, do research, more volunteer? .. anything else you guys recommend..thanks! I appreciate the help in advance!

Grades: just goto school again in your current or other major (make sure it's a 4-year university and not a community college) and take upper level science courses. Don't repeat ALL of your courses, take upper level and maybe repeat a course or two. By all means, talk to your pre-med advisor or even better talk to an adcom at a medical school you want to goto. Many schools offer courses in things like: physiology, anatomy, histology, neuroanatomy, embryology, microbiology, various chemistry classes, etc. But pace yourself on these classes, you need to get all A's with the very rare B. Throw in other classes that you think might also be related to medicine and will help you learn about healthcare: classes on health care, medical terminology, sign language, another foreign language, etc.

Volunteer: you need to get involved with the community over a long period of time. Show consistency. Don't just volunteer here and there, but make it something you integrate into your life. You do want to "help people" and not just make $$$, right?

Research: contact a professor or doctor that is involved with research, and get involved so that you can get in on the publication of a paper as an author.

Shadowing: get to know some docs. Shadow some docs. Get to know what it is like as a doctor so that you can show the adcoms that you know what you are getting into and have some ideas about what physicians are.

===
What am I doing? Well, I was in your situation: 3.1 GPA when I started all this post bacc stuff. I'm now at 3.32 and climbing after 1 year and a summer, but only to 3.45 after 2 years of this with all A's. I've put in 600+ hours at the local hospital over 2 years, and plan on being there until I head off to medical school. I volunteer here and there through my local AMSA and PPMS university clubs. I really need to get off my butt and get to know other docs and to get into some research at my university.

It can be done, but you have to focus and really look at the goal of getting into medical school if this is really what you want to do with your life. It's hard, rough, and will take a lot of effort. You may have to put life on hold if you hav to study a lot to get those A's. But, from what I hear from docs I talk with, it's worth it in the end if you are in this for medicine and not for the money or prestige.

 

[UMP]

Have you considered other career options because apparently you are getting waitlisted left, right and center.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3645787#post3645787

very, very nice

 

[md953]

Thanks everyone for their responses!

Ofcourse I am not"assuming" I'll do well on MCAT, I surely need to work hard. As for classes, I think it is my study habits. I know I can do better and just studdying consistently (like read chapter before class etc) This would help grasp material well.

I am thinking: I will take some upper level sci classes like (Biochem, Microbiology, Neurobiology, Anatomy, Histology etc) and do well. Again, I am not assuming, I have to go back and realize what I am doing wrong and fix it. So don't get on my case! hah

as for that other poster, I never asked "What are my chances?" but still he is telling me about other career options. Hey, other people have started MUCH worse than me and are now in medical school. So, I, for one, dont buy into his advise.

 

[md953]

That was awesome, man. Are you related to Chuck Norris?

😀

 

[md953]

very, very nice

👍

 

[md953]

You didn't like the earlier advice to consider a different career, but it is a fair piece of advice. It sounds like you may be a junior (you have finished ochem, for example), and you have yet to distinguish yourself as even a reliably average science student. Maybe this is because of something that you can easily change (such as ditching a demanding boyfriend or smoking less weed). But until you can show that you are both a good student and a good science student, no MD or DO school will give your application a serious look. If you can do this, then great. If not, then you need to consider other healthcare careers, or careers in something that isn't science-related.

I agree with you 100%. I have to prove I can get A's. That is why I put off MCAT for now.

 

[Doglover4fever]

Come up with a realistic plan.
This means
a) finding out (For real, by contacting schools or reading it in MSAR) which schools take international students, how many students they take, and what the average scores are for those schools.
b) coming up with the funding (foreign students are supposed to have proof of ability to pay for their expenses FOR THE ENTIRE MEDSCHOOL experience. In many cases this means demonstrating 150-250 K in assetts. It is my understanding that the US Fed won't give you educational loans for med school, as a foreign student. You cited financial difficulties in your post. Is it even realistic to try and attend medical school here in the US?
c) Changing your life. If your grades continue on their current trend, you will not get into a US medical school. Why did you get the bad grades before? (yes, a string of Bs and Cs in science classes is bad.) Wanting As and getting them are two different things entirely. Are you ready to live and study differently? Obviously, whatever you were doing before wasn't working. Molly was right; ECs won't amount to a hill of beans if your grades stay where they are.
d) Be prepared to take extra time. You may need to do post-bac work (it sounds like it), and you may need to wait to apply, depending on how strong your application is when you enter your junior or senior years.

Earlier you asked about when to take the mcat. It sounds like you have taken all the necessary classes already. Usually, I advocate taking the test within a few months of completing the pre-med/mcat sequence of courses. However, you didn't do well in those classes, so you shouldn't expect to do well on the mcat (all else being equal, and the mcat being what it is). If your pre-test efforts are realistic (you timed yourself, took legitimate pre-tests, didn't practice "open book" or such), and you are doing well, then go ahead and try the mcat. If your pre-tests are still a bunch of 8s (or 9s, depending on your state), then you need to get professional help (kaplan) or pray that studying can fix your problem.

You didn't like the earlier advice to consider a different career, but it is a fair piece of advice. It sounds like you may be a junior (you have finished ochem, for example), and you have yet to distinguish yourself as even a reliably average science student. Maybe this is because of something that you can easily change (such as ditching a demanding boyfriend or smoking less weed). But until you can show that you are both a good student and a good science student, no MD or DO school will give your application a serious look. If you can do this, then great. If not, then you need to consider other healthcare careers, or careers in something that isn't science-related.

I meet premeds all the time who have your grades and these people say things like "I'm going to be a surgeon." These people I have met almost universally like the idea of being a doctor, yet hate school, but more specifically: they hate (or are ambivalent about) science. I don't know if you hate science or not, but if you do, then you don't need to go into medicine; if you don't hate science, then either you aren't smart enough or you aren't working hard enough. Of these three possibilities, two demand a career in something other than medicine. The third demands that you change your life (see above). There is no shame in wanting to do something and then ending up doing something else because you realize that it really isn't the best fit for you (I changed careers in order to go into medicine). Consider all options, not just the MD option.

Good luck refining your goals, and in meeting your goals, whatever they end up being!

Right. The OP may not LIKE what I had to say, but it is the truth. And as for your cheep shot at my six waitlists, that validates my point even more. I have over a 3.8 GPA at a very competetive university, I aced almost all of my science classes (only two B+), and I had a solid MCAT score. My interviews were great, and I still got waitlisted. Now what makes you think with barely a 3.0 and multiple Cs (even in your junior year), that you have a realistic shot?

 

[tennisguy896]

Doglover is correct in her assessment. You said you aren't looking for "what are my chances" but it's pretty obvious you are only looking for a confidence boost (since you shoot down any negative advice). The fact of the matter is that you are a very weak applicant right now. Period. Even if you get As for rest of your classes in undegrad, your best shot is with DO and Carribean schools, unless you do a post-bacc. What are you expecting with a thread like this?

 

[MollyMalone]

Right. The OP may not LIKE what I had to say, but it is the truth. And as for your cheep shot at my six waitlists, that validates my point even more. I have over a 3.8 GPA at a very competetive university, I aced almost all of my science classes (only two B+), and I had a solid MCAT score. My interviews were great, and I still got waitlisted. Now what makes you think with barely a 3.0 and multiple Cs (even in your junior year), that you have a realistic shot?

The truth is that people can and do come back from less than ideal academic starts. It requires time, hard work, and some humility, but it is very possible.

I am sorry that you have had a disappointing application season so far but I think what your situation demonstrates is precisely that grades/MCAT aren't necessarily the magic tickets that some people think they are. I wish you good luck with your waitlists!

To the OP: being given advice to consider another career is not an insult nor is it necessarily rude -- it is just an opinion. It may not be what you wanted to hear, but when you post on a public message board that's the way the cookie crumbles. You are free to take or ignore whatever advice you want.

I sense an argument brewing here. Please remember to keep things civil.

 

[md953]

Doglover is correct in her assessment. You said you aren't looking for "what are my chances" but it's pretty obvious you are only looking for a confidence boost (since you shoot down any negative advice). The fact of the matter is that you are a very weak applicant right now. Period. Even if you get As for rest of your classes in undegrad, your best shot is with DO and Carribean schools, unless you do a post-bacc. What are you expecting with a thread like this?

huh? I was asking what would you do (like when to take MCAT etc, if you would retake some old classes vs take some new upper level sci classes) I know as of now my chances are slim, ofcourse I need to do hard work from now on to have a realistic shot.

Lets end this thread right here.

 

[md953]

Right. The OP may not LIKE what I had to say, but it is the truth. And as for your cheep shot at my six waitlists, that validates my point even more. I have over a 3.8 GPA at a very competetive university, I aced almost all of my science classes (only two B+), and I had a solid MCAT score. My interviews were great, and I still got waitlisted. Now what makes you think with barely a 3.0 and multiple Cs (even in your junior year), that you have a realistic shot?

FYI, I have no C's in my junior year.

 

[tennisguy896]

FYI, I have no C's in my junior year.

FYI- doesn't matter, you still have a 3.0.

 

[md953]

FYI- doesn't matter, you still have a 3.0.

and your point is?

 

[tennisguy896]

Shouldn't you be studying?

 

[md953]

Shouldn't you be studying?

Finals are over.

 

[tennisguy896]

bye

 

[md953]

tata

 

[tennisguy896]

tool

 

[Doglover4fever]

tool

I am not a mean person, I just get annoyed when people with really low stats act like they should be able to slack off and screw around for 3 years, and then all of the sudden, decide they want to be a doctor. The OP was obviously looking for a confidence boost, not honest advice. For most of us, this goal has required years and years of effort, anxiety, and sacrifice. I am not talking about one or two weak grades here, I am talking about a record (3.0!) that demonstrates years of below average performance. One thing I have learned from this whole process is that nothing is guarantied, and that there are hundreds and hundreds of amazing people fighting for a few precious seats. I just don't get how the OP could do so poorly and then get offended when someone suggests that maybe medicine is not the right career path for him/her. Not everyone was cut out to be a doctor, and there is nothing wrong with that! The world would be pretty boring if everyone picked the same career field. All I was saying was that the OP might want to think about finding a better use of his/her time.

 

[tennisguy896]

I am not a mean person, I just get annoyed when people with really low stats act like they should be able to slack off and screw around for 3 years, and then all of the sudden, decide they want to be a doctor. The OP was obviously looking for a confidence boost, not honest advice. For most of us, this goal has required years and years of effort, anxiety, and sacrifice. I am not talking about one or two weak grades here, I am talking about a record (3.0!) that demonstrates years of below average performance. One thing I have learned from this whole process is that nothing is guarantied, and that there are hundreds and hundreds of amazing people fighting for a few precious seats. I just don't get how the OP could do so poorly and then get offended when someone suggests that maybe medicine is not the right career path for him/her. Not everyone was cut out to be a doctor, and there is nothing wrong with that! The world would be pretty boring if everyone picked the same career field. All I was saying was that the OP might want to think about finding a better use of his/her time.

THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one that was getting tired of all these people with very low stats who think that if they work hard for one year, they still deserve to get into med school. I honestly think there should be a minimum gpa cut-off to apply to medical school. There are too many qualified pre-meds that have worked their butts off to allow slackers with a "trend of improvement" to apply. What the heck is a trend of improvement- what if we didn't have to improve, is that supposed to be such a valued characteristic?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one that was getting tired of all these people with very low stats who think that if they work hard for one year, they still deserve to get into med school. I honestly think there should be a minimum gpa cut-off to apply to medical school. There are too many qualified pre-meds that have worked their butts off to allow slackers with a "trend of improvement" to apply. What the heck is a trend of improvement- what if we didn't have to improve, is that supposed to be such a valued characteristic?

People make mistakes in their lives, have personal issues that come up (illness, etc.) or don't decide on a career path until late into their undergraduate career. Being a doctor requires all sorts of people to practice good medicine and to provide for the general population. Many people that work hard aren't necessarily cut out for medicine just as people that slack off aren't cut out for medicine. It's not all GPA, MCAT, LOR, Who You Know, Your Life Experience. It's a combination of everything that will get you into medical school.

How are you going to be a good physician if you easily pass judgement on people and dismiss their hopes and dreams? Academia, the pressures to succeed, being around smart people, etc. can really twist one's perception of what the real world is like. We have to understand, work with real people out there when we become physicians.

 

[Doglover4fever]

THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one that was getting tired of all these people with very low stats who think that if they work hard for one year, they still deserve to get into med school. I honestly think there should be a minimum gpa cut-off to apply to medical school. There are too many qualified pre-meds that have worked their butts off to allow slackers with a "trend of improvement" to apply. What the heck is a trend of improvement- what if we didn't have to improve, is that supposed to be such a valued characteristic?

Yes! I totally agree. There is waaayyyy too much emphasis on this "hand holding" "trend of improvement" stuff. When I started my freshman year, I was under the assumption that you had to work hard and do well all the way through. I thought EVERY grade was important. Some people say I am in no position to talk because I only have waitlists, but I think that my experience has really given me more insight into the process. When I started, I thought I would surely get accepted somewhere right away. Now I see that people like me are a dime a dozen, and it takes a lot to stand out. It kills me to think that people with 3.0s (and even lower), but a "trend of improvement" might be scooping up so many spots. Yikes. Anyway, do you have any acceptances....I hope so....

 

[md953]

Yes! I totally agree. There is waaayyyy too much emphasis on this "hand holding" "trend of improvement" stuff. When I started my freshman year, I was under the assumption that you had to work hard and do well all the way through. I thought EVERY grade was important. Some people say I am in no position to talk because I only have waitlists, but I think that my experience has really given me more insight into the process. When I started, I thought I would surely get accepted somewhere right away. Now I see that people like me are a dime a dozen, and it takes a lot to stand out. It kills me to think that people with 3.0s (and even lower), but a "trend of improvement" might be scooping up so many spots. Yikes. Anyway, do you have any acceptances....I hope so....

Who are you to call a 3.0 student a slacker?

 

[trustwomen]

THANK YOU. I thought I was the only one that was getting tired of all these people with very low stats who think that if they work hard for one year, they still deserve to get into med school. I honestly think there should be a minimum gpa cut-off to apply to medical school. There are too many qualified pre-meds that have worked their butts off to allow slackers with a "trend of improvement" to apply. What the heck is a trend of improvement- what if we didn't have to improve, is that supposed to be such a valued characteristic?

Ouch! What about somebody like me, who started university two years younger than everyone else, screwed around in a directionless fog for five years, then went back to school years later and did a whole other degree? (2.5 GPA first time, 3.75 2nd time). What if my "trend of improvement" lasted three and a half years and had a better GPA than that of many "untarnished" applicants, plus I worked as a social worker for eight years and had a whole pile of life experience to boot? Seems you are being unnecessarily harsh. And we wonder why we have so many "ivory tower" doctors that don't know how to talk to patients...

BTW, my overall GPA is just over a 3.0, but I start at McGill this fall...they only counted my new degree.

 

[md953]

Ouch! What about somebody like me, who started university two years younger than everyone else, screwed around in a directionless fog for five years, then went back to school 8 years later and did a whole other degree? (2.5 GPA first time, 3.75 2nd time). What if my "trend of improvement" lasted three and a half years and had a better GPA than that of many "untarnished" applicants, plus I worked as a social worker for eight years and had a whole pile of life experience to boot? Seems you are being unnecessarily harsh. And we wonder why we have so many "ivory tower" doctors that don't know how to talk to patients...

👍

 

[tennisguy896]

Yes! I totally agree. There is waaayyyy too much emphasis on this "hand holding" "trend of improvement" stuff. When I started my freshman year, I was under the assumption that you had to work hard and do well all the way through. I thought EVERY grade was important. Some people say I am in no position to talk because I only have waitlists, but I think that my experience has really given me more insight into the process. When I started, I thought I would surely get accepted somewhere right away. Now I see that people like me are a dime a dozen, and it takes a lot to stand out. It kills me to think that people with 3.0s (and even lower), but a "trend of improvement" might be scooping up so many spots. Yikes. Anyway, do you have any acceptances....I hope so....

Thanks, but I'm applying this summer- so I'll have to wait and see. Hang in there, I'm sure you'll be picked off a couple of your waitlists- they should be moving around now. Plus with such strong stats, it's more a fluke that you didn't get in, so you can always confidently re-apply this fall you have need to. I've heard some powerful stories about students with cancer, dying parents, etc... and I empathize with them. Who I DO NOT emphathize with are slackers who just have not put forth the effort to do well during most of their undergrad years and then all of a sudden "oh crap, maybe I should start working hard so I can get into med school." Duh- too late buddy.

 

[trustwomen]

Who I DO NOT emphathize with are slackers who just have not put forth the effort to do well during most of their undergrad years and then all of a sudden "oh crap, maybe I should start working hard so I can get into med school." Duh- too late buddy.

It's never too late. It might take longer, but it's never too late.

 

[tennisguy896]

It's never too late. It might take longer, but it's never too late.

Do you think he can still get into med school during his senior year of undergrad? That's what I meant by too late. Like I said before, I appreciate how much work some non-traditional students, like you, have to go through to achieve your goals. You realized that you had to do a lot of work to achieve your goal. So who exactly does not think that a healthy, stable undergraduate student with a 3.0 is not a slacker? Unless you have a honest reason otherwise, everyone including adcoms will know you slacked off for 3 years.

 

[trustwomen]

Do you think he can still get into med school during his senior year of undergrad? That's what I meant by too late. Like I said before, I appreciate how much work some non-traditional students, like you, have to go through to achieve your goals. You realized that you had to do a lot of work to achieve your goal. So who exactly does not think that a healthy, stable undergraduate student with a 3.0 is not a slacker? Unless you have a honest reason otherwise, everyone including adcoms will know you slacked off for 3 years.

I was healthy, stable, and a slacker in my late teens. I am living proof that even slackers can change. Usually, a few years of life experience (and discovering your passion) will do the trick. The point is, don't go crapping on somebody else's dreams, or telling them it's impossible. Sure, be realistic - you will need to rock a 2-year postbacc, or maybe do another degree - but that's a far cry from saying "upward trends mean nothing" or "find another career".

p.s. my "scooping up" a spot will apparently kill doglover, according to one post - sorry, doglover! 😀

 

[md953]

Do you think he can still get into med school during his senior year of undergrad? That's what I meant by too late. Like I said before, I appreciate how much work some non-traditional students, like you, have to go through to achieve your goals. You realized that you had to do a lot of work to achieve your goal. So who exactly does not think that a healthy, stable undergraduate student with a 3.0 is not a slacker? Unless you have a honest reason otherwise, everyone including adcoms will know you slacked off for 3 years.

Actually, 3.2 after 3 years. (Missed a semester, so really 3.2 after 2.5 years) still a slacker?

 

[clc8503]

Right. The OP may not LIKE what I had to say, but it is the truth. And as for your cheep shot at my six waitlists, that validates my point even more. I have over a 3.8 GPA at a very competetive university, I aced almost all of my science classes (only two B+), and I had a solid MCAT score. My interviews were great, and I still got waitlisted. Now what makes you think with barely a 3.0 and multiple Cs (even in your junior year), that you have a realistic shot?

I'd say that if you had those kind of stats and didn't get in anywhere , then your interviews obviously did not go as well as you think they did. I personally know 3.4 -3.6 students with less than perfect MCAT scores who are currently holding multiple acceptances; gotta love those psychomotor skills. I think the OP wanted to know if he or she still had a shot, and only wanted fellow SDNers to tell him or her to consider other career options if he or she had no chance. We should offer words of encouragement if their is any possibility that the OP can get where he or she truly want to be. Who are you to tell someone they should consider other career options when you could just tell them to work a little harder and/or consider getting a post bachelors degree?

To the OP, don't listen to this guy. Just work a little harder, because if you can pull that GPA up to a 3.3 and get a acceptable MCAT score (at least a 25-26) then you would be competitive for a few DO programs. Seriously though, you still have a chance.

 

[tennisguy896]

Actually, 3.2 after 3 years. (Missed a semester, so really 3.2 after 2.5 years) still a slacker?

Yes.

 

[md953]

I was healthy, stable, and a slacker in my late teens. I am living proof that even slackers can change. Usually, a few years of life experience (and discovering your passion) will do the trick. The point is, don't go crapping on somebody else's dreams, or telling them it's impossible. Sure, be realistic - you will need to rock a 2-year postbacc, or maybe do another degree - but that's a far cry from saying "upward trends mean nothing" or "find another career".

p.s. my "scooping up" a spot will apparently kill doglover, according to one post - sorry, doglover! 😀

heh. Agreed. But I do have enough common sense to realize not to take advise from these type of people.

 

[tennisguy896]

If it is the dream of such applicants to get into medical school, then why haven't they worked harder? Simple question. How you explain a history of B and C quality work?

 

[md953]

I'd say that if you had those kind of stats and didn't get in anywhere , then your interviews obviously did not go as well as you think they did. I personally know 3.4 -3.6 students with less than perfect MCAT scores who are currently holding multiple acceptances; gotta love those psychomotor skills. I think the OP wanted to know if he or she still had a shot, and only wanted fellow SDNers to tell him or her to consider other career options if he or she had no chance. We should offer words of encouragement if their is any possibility that the OP can get where he or she truly want to be. Who are you to tell someone they should consider other career options when you could just tell them to work a little harder and/or consider getting a post bachelors degree?

To the OP, don't listen to this guy. Just work a little harder, because if you can pull that GPA up to a 3.3 and get a acceptable MCAT score (at least a 25-26) then you would be competitive for a few DO programs. Seriously though, you still have a chance.

Again, I wasnt necessarily asking if I had a shot, but I was asking about right time to take the MCAT and other things like that.

My goal is;
Do well in senior year.
Then take an extrayear of upper level sci class (and ofcourse do well)
And then take MCAT sometime in August 2007, or January 2008.
And then apply AFTER that extra year.
And basically, there would be 2 extra years that I would delay starting medical school..

 

[clc8503]

Again, I wasnt necessarily asking if I had a shot, but I was asking about right time to take the MCAT and other things like that.

My goal is;
Do well in senior year.
Then take an extrayear of upper level sci class (and ofcourse do well)
And then take MCAT sometime in August 2007, or January 2008.
And then apply AFTER that extra year.
And basically, there would be 2 extra years that I would delay starting medical school..

I realize that. I just get mad when fellow SDNers go off on people and tell them hang it up, and that they have no chance. My statement was more directed at doglover than you. Best of luck!