What would you do in my position? Problems with my volunteering situation.

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Snoopy92

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As of right now, I've just finished shadowing an orthodontist and a pharmacist and am now beginning to shadow an internal medicine doctor. The past two shadowing experiences were really fun and the environment was really great to be in, however, in this doctor's clinic its almost the exact opposite. So right now, I'm going to shadow the doctor's once a week for about 4 hours but within those four hours I'm literally just sitting around in the patient room doing absolutely nothing. I would always go up to the secretary to ask if there was anything needed to be done and rarely, she would let me measure the weight, the height, take blood sugar tests, and giving the cup for urine samples...

So today, I sat in the patient room for almost 3 1/2 hours to literally do 30 minutes of volunteering because she didn't want me to do anything else. I asked if she needed help but she didn't give me any work to do. So at one point, she asked if I wanted to shadow the doctor and of course I said yes. So she brings me into the patient room where the doctor is working and lets me watch. After about 30 seconds of "watching", the doctor tells me to come into his office for a talk. He says that he doesn't like my "attitude" for barging into the patient's visit even though I was brought in by his own nurse/secretary and I even asked her "is it okay for me to go in" to which she said yes. The doctor went even further by saying that I don't dress like a med student which I'm not, but I always try to dress professional by wearing nice khakis, a dress shirt, and dress shoes and said I should fix that. Last, he said that I had go home because I didn't bring a notebook to take notes on shadowing the nurse. Now, here I am asking whether or not I should continue volunteering here since its only been 2 days and he seems like he hates my guts. He said "I assure you will not go into medical school, unless you change no matter how good your grades are." I'm dressing the best I can other than wearing a suit and tie everyday to the office when the other volunteers just wear jeans and a t shirt and I really have no idea what the hell I'm suppose to do with taking notes when all I get to do out in the waiting room is measure someone's weight, height, take blood sugar with one of those easy read machines, and giving the cup to the patient to do the urine sample. He went on to say that I should be answering the phone and registering new patients but since the office mostly serves Korean people, and I don't know Korean... I can't even understand what they're saying or respond in a manner that would be understandable let alone polite. I feel as though maybe I should just attempt to find another volunteer position but its pretty late into the summer now or probably just sit in the office for 4 hours a day scribbling pictures into a notebook because there's nothing to write down. Really would like some advice because I'm at a crossroad to which health care profession I want to pursue and I don't want to deter my interest in medicine if this is not the norm. Sorry for the rant and hope you can help!
 
Get out. No point in staying at a place that you hate, and where the doctor hates you.

If you're not getting anything out of the experience, why bother?
 
Skip it. Shadowing is useless anyway - see what other clinical experiences you can get into.

I will however say, that in my experience a lot of premeds and med students have attitude, entitlement and general cluelessness about how to behave. Its a result of most of them never working or understanding the relationship between boss and employee (or in this case doc and student).

Its possible the doc just randomly had something against you. However, its more likely you actually did something to tick him/her off. I would try to figure it out and fix it before you get into med school.
 
I was thinking of gutting it out so I could put it on my med school application but am feeling really bad about thinking about doing that since I really despise lying but with no other volunteer opportunities at the moment, I don't know what to do. I really don't want to spend the rest of my summer lounging around my house but I have been actively trying to find a new place to volunteer or even shadow in. All those visits just lead me to talking to the business admin/manager's answering machine with no hopes of a return call.

Skip it. Shadowing is useless anyway - see what other clinical experiences you can get into.

I will however say, that in my experience a lot of premeds and med students have attitude, entitlement and general cluelessness about how to behave. Its a result of most of them never working or understanding the relationship between boss and employee (or in this case doc and student).

Its possible the doc just randomly had something against you. However, its more likely you actually did something to tick him/her off. I would try to figure it out and fix it before you get into med school.

I've been trying to figure out that myself, ever since I left today but today was the first time I have ever talked to the doctor other than the "Good afternoon, Dr.X, how are you doing today?" I've only talked to the secretary/nurse to ask for work but when she says to do nothing, I just sit there quietly, smiling and minding my own business. The only thing I could imagine that would tick him off is that when patients talk to me in Korean (I'm not Korean), I can't respond so I speak to them in English and I feel like that ticks him off since I'm not able to converse with the patient?
 
Skip it. Shadowing is useless anyway - see what other clinical experiences you can get into.
While I agree that shadowing isn't typically hands-on enough to suffice as one's only clinical experience, I think the value of the experience depends a lot on the circumstances. I've found my shadowing so far to be incredibly stimulating and engaging, definitely worth my while. At the same time, my other clinical experiences have been different partly because I've been more than just an observer. I think with the right doctor and the right student, shadowing can be really valuable in broadening one's exposure to medicine.
 
Depending on where you are, you could just shoot some e-mails to the heads of different departments in the hospital. Some docs are horrible teachers and don't like it when people shadow them. A better bet is to try to find a nurse practitioner, since they tend to be nicer and also usually work under a doc.
 
Get out now and find a new gig.

Call everyone you know.... do they know a physician in the area (a distant relative's spouse, a neighbor, a member of the congregation, or a civic committee, etc) and can they arrange an introduction?

Decide whether you want to be a volunteer or a shadow. Being a shadow means being at the physician's side through the whole day (or for the period of time that you are there) except when a patient indicates that they don't want you in the room. You are there to observe. You could ask the physician whether you should take notes in the patient's presence or wait until later. Things you might write down are words you didn't understand or things you want to look up & learn more about later.

If you are going to volunteer, there should be a specific job description for you and a set of tasks that your are expected to complete on a routine basis or a constantly changing "to do" list added to by the staff as things come up.


If you are going to be a volunteer, do not "shadow" unless specifically invited to do so by the person you will be shadowing. The nurse or secretary dumped you on the physician to get you out of her hair and the doctor did not appreciate it and took it out on you (someone who is there just temporarily) rather than taking his gripe up with the secretary/nurse with whom he must work over the long term.

Before you start, ask if there is any recommended attire.

Finally, I am wondering if this doctor has been reading "Tiger Mother" and is trying to motivate you with that particular brand of toxic tough love.
 
To say you will never get in no matter how your grades or mcat score is just ridiculous, I mean look if an ******* like him got in any other personality surely can
 
I totally agree with LizzyM - you have to decide if you're shadowing or volunteering. Shadowing is not volunteering, you're adding absolutely no value to the doc/office and you're basically just hanging around watching, but it is a part of the pre-med experience in the US and some docs even enjoy this kind of teaching. Others at least don't hate having you around.

Volunteering, at a pre-med level...yeah, you'd be answering phones, photocopying, wheeling patients to places if in a hospital, etc. Don't confuse the two.

I agree with everyone else who's told you to get out. This is neither a good shadowing (doc doesn't want you around) or volunteering (they have no appropriate busywork for you to do so all you end up doing is wasting the secretary's time) experience.
 
This sounds pretty terrible. Sounds like the Dr gets off by treating someone in a more junior position poorly. This person has no business having someone shadow them. I was in a similar situation, but working in a research lab. In the end, I cut my losses and moved on.
 
Thank you all for the responses. I think I will have to come in and tell him that I'm done volunteering or shadowing or whatever he wanted me to do. I came in there purposely trying to just shadow him but when I arrived the first day he just told me to shadow the nurse and then once I'm "ready" then I can shadow him. Though after the first time the secretary/nurse brought me in, it was already my fault for rushing things. I'm going to try to find another doctor to shadow or volunteer in so I have something to do for the rest of the summer. I was trying to do this last week after my first visit to his clinic but currently no one is accepting.
 
Thank you all for the responses. I think I will have to come in and tell him that I'm done volunteering or shadowing or whatever he wanted me to do. I came in there purposely trying to just shadow him but when I arrived the first day he just told me to shadow the nurse and then once I'm "ready" then I can shadow him. Though after the first time the secretary/nurse brought me in, it was already my fault for rushing things. I'm going to try to find another doctor to shadow or volunteer in so I have something to do for the rest of the summer. I was trying to do this last week after my first visit to his clinic but currently no one is accepting.

Keep trying. You will find someone. And I'm sorry, this doc doesn't sound like a very nice guy. Instead of taking you under his wing, and being supportive of the next generation of physicians, he does this to you?

Nahhh, you don't need this Snoop. You're better off.
 
Doc sounds like a prick that will give you little respect. Run and find another.
 
Get out now and find a new gig.

Call everyone you know.... do they know a physician in the area (a distant relative's spouse, a neighbor, a member of the congregation, or a civic committee, etc) and can they arrange an introduction?

Decide whether you want to be a volunteer or a shadow. Being a shadow means being at the physician's side through the whole day (or for the period of time that you are there) except when a patient indicates that they don't want you in the room. You are there to observe. You could ask the physician whether you should take notes in the patient's presence or wait until later. Things you might write down are words you didn't understand or things you want to look up & learn more about later.

If you are going to volunteer, there should be a specific job description for you and a set of tasks that your are expected to complete on a routine basis or a constantly changing "to do" list added to by the staff as things come up.


If you are going to be a volunteer, do not "shadow" unless specifically invited to do so by the person you will be shadowing. The nurse or secretary dumped you on the physician to get you out of her hair and the doctor did not appreciate it and took it out on you (someone who is there just temporarily) rather than taking his gripe up with the secretary/nurse with whom he must work over the long term.

Before you start, ask if there is any recommended attire.

Finally, I am wondering if this doctor has been reading "Tiger Mother" and is trying to motivate you with that particular brand of toxic tough love.

As Lizzy implied she might be, I am a bit confused as to whether you are "shadowing" or "volunteering" because you seem to be expecting both. Follow Lizzy's suggestion and figure out if you're shadowing (observing) or volunteering (helping out with menial tasks). You need to ultimately do both, but it sounds like you're straddling that line w/o an actual role. You need to ask the physician and/or MA what s/he wants you to do. If you're a volunteer, it is inappropriate for you to walk in and observe an exam with the physician's (and pt's) prior consent. As a shadow, the physician will get that consent for you, often in the form of something like "Hello, I am Dr. Smith; this is David. He wants to be a doctor someday. Are you okay with him watching?"

At the clinic where I volunteer, I sometimes shadow and scribe but I didn't do so for probably the 9-12 mos I was there. Once I had really developed a strong rapport with the rest of the clinical, administrative, and medical staff, I started shadowing on occasion by invitation of the docs themselves while still attending to my duties as a volunteer. Jumping from one thing to another like that without permission and without the relationships in place is likely to result in disaster as you experienced.

As for what I'd do in your situation...well, see if you can mend things first. If not, you may have to move on. Good luck.
 
As Lizzy implied she might be, I am a bit confused as to whether you are "shadowing" or "volunteering" because you seem to be expecting both. Follow Lizzy's suggestion and figure out if you're shadowing (observing) or volunteering (helping out with menial tasks). You need to ultimately do both, but it sounds like you're straddling that line w/o an actual role. You need to ask the physician and/or MA what s/he wants you to do. If you're a volunteer, it is inappropriate for you to walk in and observe an exam with the physician's (and pt's) prior consent. As a shadow, the physician will get that consent for you, often in the form of something like "Hello, I am Dr. Smith; this is David. He wants to be a doctor someday. Are you okay with him watching?"

At the clinic where I volunteer, I sometimes shadow and scribe but I didn't do so for probably the 9-12 mos I was there. Once I had really developed a strong rapport with the rest of the clinical, administrative, and medical staff, I started shadowing on occasion by invitation of the docs themselves while still attending to my duties as a volunteer. Jumping from one thing to another like that without permission and without the relationships in place is likely to result in disaster as you experienced.

As for what I'd do in your situation...well, see if you can mend things first. If not, you may have to move on. Good luck.

I wanted to go to there to shadow. Ended up getting a volunteering gig instead. One day, I asked the nurse if there were any tasks for me to do since usually there isn't and instead of giving me a task, I got asked if I wanted to shadow the doctor. I said yes and then got scolded for it.
 
Cut your loss and move on.

You are volunteering for them, and yet they treat you badly, its a lose-lose situation for you.
 
Did you get the position because the doctor agreed or because the secratary agreed?

If it wasn't the doctor, you may not have a good working realationshiip and you won't take anything out of the experience. Think of this as an experience for yourself, not as a line on a EC list. That will make the decision of whether to stay or leave easy.
 
Did you get the position because the doctor agreed or because the secratary agreed?

If it wasn't the doctor, you may not have a good working realationshiip and you won't take anything out of the experience. Think of this as an experience for yourself, not as a line on a EC list. That will make the decision of whether to stay or leave easy.

Well I think for this upcoming week I'm going to actively search some more for a position and if I can't find one then I will try to gut it out. However, if its still bad then I'll just have to cut my losses. The doctor is my mother's doctor and I went and introduced myself to him personally. Then came to his office about 3 days later and went into his office to greet him and he was like "Who is this?". After having to explain to him about shadowing, he just said "okay, go with nurse".
 
Well I think for this upcoming week I'm going to actively search some more for a position and if I can't find one then I will try to gut it out. However, if its still bad then I'll just have to cut my losses. The doctor is my mother's doctor and I went and introduced myself to him personally. Then came to his office about 3 days later and went into his office to greet him and he was like "Who is this?". After having to explain to him about shadowing, he just said "okay, go with nurse".

It sounds to me like he's not interested in working with you. I'd go find someone else. There's got to be someone in your area more willing to work w students. Teaching isn't for everyone. Find physicians that like to teach and would want to mentor you. They're out there. You just have to find one.
 
You win some and lose some. I've been fortunate to shadow many physicians that are enthusiastic about their work and convey that over to me while I shadow them. Go find another doctor that makes you excited to come in every day to help build your passion for medicine.
 
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